What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

[Clare73]

No, faith is what qualifies them as the seed or sons of Abraham.

Faith is what qualifies them to be in Christ, which is what qualifies them to be the seed of Abraham (Gal 3:29).

 

[Clare73]

Again you condition salvation on man. and a person is of the seed of Abraham before they believe. Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

That is, Christ did not take on the nature of angels, he took on the nature of man in his incarnation (Jn 1:14).

 

[Mark Quayle]

Faith is what qualifies them to be in Christ, which is what qualifies them to be the seed of Abraham (Gal 3:29).

The clincher, here, to me, is the fact that the faith is generated by the Spirit of God indwelling the believer, and the Spirit of God indwelling is how they are in Christ. It is not something that a person earns by faith, in the sense of 'qualifying' the way humans think of it.

That same faith was Abraham's by the same means.

 

[Brightfame52]

Christ did not take on the nature of angels, he took on the nature of man in his incarnation (Jn 1:14).

Correct, and not merely men in general, but a specific group, the seed of Abraham, a chosen people. Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

 

[Clare73]

Correct, and not merely men in general, but a specific group, the seed of Abraham, a chosen people. Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

All mankind are of the same nature--human. . .which they will be forever.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Do you believe Jesus died for people who are never saved. never become believers ? Yes or No

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Arent they the seed or sons of Abraham before they have Faith in Christ ?

No one is saved or has the spirit of God in them prior to faith.

 

[Brightfame52]

All mankind are of the same nature--human. . .which they will be forever.

But all mankind isnt the seed of Abraham which Christ came and identified with in the flesh Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.


For verily not to angels doth he give help, but he giveth help to the seed of Abraham. ASV


For, as we all know, He (Christ) does not take hold of [the fallen] angels [to give them a helping hand], but He does take hold of [the fallen] descendants of Abraham [extending to them His hand of deliverance]. AMP

This is limited atonement, only for His elect. Seed of Abraham is Gods elect

Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

 

[Brightfame52]

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Do you believe Jesus died for people who are never saved. never become believers ? Yes or No

 

[Brightfame52]

No one is saved or has the spirit of God in them prior to faith.

Arent they seed of Abraham before they believe ? Are people Christs Sheep before they believe ?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Arent they seed of Abraham before they believe ? Are people Christs Sheep before they believe ?

Judas was one of His sheep

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Arent they seed of Abraham before they believe ? Are people Christs Sheep before they believe ?

No one is born a sheep or a goat . We are all born as human beings alienated from God.

 

[Mark Quayle]

But all mankind isnt the seed of Abraham which Christ came and identified with in the flesh Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.


For verily not to angels doth he give help, but he giveth help to the seed of Abraham. ASV


For, as we all know, He (Christ) does not take hold of [the fallen] angels [to give them a helping hand], but He does take hold of [the fallen] descendants of Abraham [extending to them His hand of deliverance]. AMP

This is limited atonement, only for His elect. Seed of Abraham is Gods elect

Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

"For they are not all Israel which are of Israel; neither because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children… but the children of promise are counted for the seed."

 

[Brightfame52]

Judas was one of His sheep

Prove it with scripture.

Also are people Christ sheep before they believe ? Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

 

[Brightfame52]

No one is born a sheep or a goat . We are all born as human beings alienated from God.

False. Have you ever heard of the parable of the Lost Sheep ? Lk 15:4-6

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

Now was it a Sheep while Lost prior to being found ? Yes or No

 

[Brightfame52]

"For they are not all Israel which are of Israel; neither because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children… but the children of promise are counted for the seed."

Okay and your point ? How does it relate to my comment ? Please explain

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Prove it with scripture.

Also are people Christ sheep before they believe ? Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Let us look at many verses together and not your "cherry picked " isolated verse where we find the following about judas who is a stumbling block for the " hyper" calvinist :

1-He was a child of the bridechamber (Matthew 9:15).
2-He was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. Jesus called unto Him His twelve disciples. (Matthew 10:1–13). See also Mark 6:7–13 and Luke 9:1–6.
3-Jesus told His disciples that if anyone would reject them or their message from Him, they would receive severe judgment (Matthew 10:14–15).
4-Judas was a sheep among wolves (Matthew 10:16).
5-In Luke 12:32 Jesus says to His disciples, “Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom.”
6-He once heard and followed the Good Shepherd (John 10:27).
7-“He that receiveth you receiveth me” (Matthew 10:40).
8-He was part of Jesus’ family (Matthew 12:48–50).
9-Jesus said that His heavenly Father was the disciples’ heavenly Father by using the terms your, thy, and our Father in relation to His disciples’ relationship with His Father (Matthew 10:20; 5:16, 45, 48; 6:1, 4, 6, 8, 9, 14, 15, 18, 26, 32; 7:11).
10-Judas was given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of heaven (Matthew 13:10–11).
11-His eyes saw and his ears heard—he understood (Matthew 13:16).
12-“Then they [Judas was there!] that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God” (Matthew 14:33).
13-Matthew 19:27–28 says, “Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, that ye [always plural in the Greek] which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” Judas was not faithful unto the end; therefore, he forfeited the promise of a throne in heaven. Judas’ fall did not negate the fact that he was promised a throne. But that promise was conditional, like all God’s promises.
14-Judas partook of the Passover. Jesus said of it in Matthew 26:18 “I will keep the Passover at thy house with my ” “Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve” (Matthew 26:20). See Luke 14:25–35 for Jesus’ definition of being His disciple (Love Him with all your heart, deny self, and take up your cross and follow Him, forsaking all else).

hope this helps !!!

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

False. Have you ever heard of the parable of the Lost Sheep ? Lk 15:4-6

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

Now was it a Sheep while Lost prior to being found ? Yes or No

An argument from silence- no where does it say or imply men are born sheep or goats. They become sheep or goats. Learn to discern the difference.

 

[Clare73]

But all mankind isnt the seed of Abrahamwhich Christ came and identified with in the flesh Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

For verily not to angels doth he give help, but he giveth help to the seed of Abraham. ASV

For, as we all know, He (Christ) does not take hold of [the fallen] angels [to give them a helping hand], but He does take hold of [the fallen] descendants of Abraham [extending to them His hand of deliverance]. AMP

This is limited atonement, only for His elect. Seed of Abraham is Gods elect

WOW!

Perfect correspondence of the AMP with the Greek epilambano (take hold of).

I stand corrected!

Thanks so much!

P.S.: Take note of how Hebrews requires some "filling in" (in accordance with the context) to be correctly understood, as in Heb 3:7-4:13.

Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

 

[Brightfame52]

Let us look at many verses together and not your "cherry picked " isolated verse where we find the following about judas who is a stumbling block for the " hyper" calvinist :

1-He was a child of the bridechamber (Matthew 9:15).
2-He was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. Jesus called unto Him His twelve disciples. (Matthew 10:1–13). See also Mark 6:7–13 and Luke 9:1–6.
3-Jesus told His disciples that if anyone would reject them or their message from Him, they would receive severe judgment (Matthew 10:14–15).
4-Judas was a sheep among wolves (Matthew 10:16).
5-In Luke 12:32 Jesus says to His disciples, “Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom.”
6-He once heard and followed the Good Shepherd (John 10:27).
7-“He that receiveth you receiveth me” (Matthew 10:40).
8-He was part of Jesus’ family (Matthew 12:48–50).
9-Jesus said that His heavenly Father was the disciples’ heavenly Father by using the terms your, thy, and our Father in relation to His disciples’ relationship with His Father (Matthew 10:20; 5:16, 45, 48; 6:1, 4, 6, 8, 9, 14, 15, 18, 26, 32; 7:11).
10-Judas was given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of heaven (Matthew 13:10–11).
11-His eyes saw and his ears heard—he understood (Matthew 13:16).
12-“Then they [Judas was there!] that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God” (Matthew 14:33).
13-Matthew 19:27–28 says, “Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, that ye [always plural in the Greek] which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” Judas was not faithful unto the end; therefore, he forfeited the promise of a throne in heaven. Judas’ fall did not negate the fact that he was promised a throne. But that promise was conditional, like all God’s promises.
14-Judas partook of the Passover. Jesus said of it in Matthew 26:18 “I will keep the Passover at thy house with my ” “Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve” (Matthew 26:20). See Luke 14:25–35 for Jesus’ definition of being His disciple (Love Him with all your heart, deny self, and take up your cross and follow Him, forsaking all else).

hope this helps !!!

All that for nothing friend. People are Sheep, Elect, before they are believers, and its why they shall be believers.