WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?

[Mercy Shown]

But repentance, while being necessary for the reception of salvation (Acts 3:19), it does not directly result in salvation, because it is baptism that directly results in the reception of salvation (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14).

Let me ask you, a gift is placed inside of a room and I tell you to open the door and enter the room and you can have the gift. If you decide to open the door but die before you open it, do you have the gift? No, you do not. Is that fair? Yes. The person who, on his deathbed makes the decision to trust in God has had for his entire life the opportunity and ability to trust in God, but has waited until the very last moment to give his heart over to God. Is that the kind of person God wants? Is that the kind of devotion God wants? Is that what Abraham, Moses, David, etc. did? No. They gave their hearts to God when He first called them, and then remained faithful to Him the rest of their lives.

This whole line of questioning is disingenuous. It seems that you are trying to find exceptions to the rule, and then invalidate the rule because of the exceptions. Will God make exceptions like this? I don't know, because I am not Him. But I cannot teach on the exceptions. I can only teach what His Word says, and let Him decide on any exceptions that He may allow. But then again, the man who made it into the wedding feast but was not dressed for the wedding was cast back out into darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (Hell). Does that sound like an allowance of exceptions? It doesn't to me.

No, I am highlighting how the Catholic doctrine of baptism is a fallacy. Certianly if one has an opportunity to be baptized but they do not do it . Is an outward sign that they have not repented nor desire the things of God. This would be the reason that they were not saved from their sins. The ceremony of baptism has no Slavic power.

It is clear in both the old testiment and the new that belief in God’s gift of eternal life is the key to receiving salvation. Whereas believing that infants to the elderly cannot enter the kingdom of God without a ritual is counter to the Bible’s teaching. This doctrine goes so far as to deny faith and belief as we see with infant baptism.

Romans 10:10 encapsulates this concept clearly. “For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.”

 

[Wansvic]

No, I am highlighting how the Catholic doctrine of baptism is a fallacy. Certianly if one has an opportunity to be baptized but they do not do it . Is an outward sign that they have not repented nor desire the things of God. This would be the reason that they were not saved from their sins. The ceremony of baptism has no Slavic power.

It is clear in both the old testiment and the new that belief in God’s gift of eternal life is the key to receiving salvation. Whereas believing that infants to the elderly cannot enter the kingdom of God without a ritual is counter to the Bible’s teaching. This doctrine goes so far as to deny faith and belief as we see with infant baptism.

Romans 10:10 encapsulates this concept clearly. “For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.”

Note Jesus' statement below. It indicates there are those who believe in Him yet will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Why? They were not obedient.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." (Matt. 7:21-27)


Jesus' sacrifice provided salvation for those who obey Him.
"And being made perfect, he (Jesus) became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb 5:9

Jesus said to go into all the world and teach all nations baptizing them. Teaching them to observe all things He commanded. And, those who believe and are baptized will be saved. (Mark 16:15-16, Matt. 28:19)

 

[Doug Brents]

No, I am highlighting how the Catholic doctrine of baptism is a fallacy. Certianly if one has an opportunity to be baptized but they do not do it. Is an outward sign that they have not repented nor desire the things of God. This would be the reason that they were not saved from their sins. The ceremony of baptism has no Slavic power.

And dipping in Jordan had no salvific power for Naaman. Yet, if he had not done so, he would not have been cleansed of leprosy. So too for us, if we do not submit to baptism then we do not have our sins removed by the Holy Spirit.

It is clear in both the old testiment and the new that belief in God’s gift of eternal life is the key to receiving salvation.

Belief AND OBEDIENCE. Faith is not real, is dead and ineffective, if there is no action along with it (James 2:14-26).

Whereas believing that infants to the elderly cannot enter the kingdom of God without a ritual is counter to the Bible’s teaching. This doctrine goes so far as to deny faith and belief as we see with infant baptism.

Salvation requires belief/faith, and infants cannot believe because they cannot comprehend their sin, their need for a savior, or the sacrifice Jesus made to secure our salvation. There is no efficacy in infant baptism. But there is efficacy in adult baptism of those who have heard the Word, believed it, repented of sin, and confessed Jesus as Lord. For them, during baptism the Holy Spirit cuts their sin from them, and unites them with Jesus' death and resurrection (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, 1 Pet 3:21, Gal 3:26-27, Eph 5:26-27, John 3:5, Acts 2:38, Acts 3:19, Rom 10:9-10, etc.).

Romans 10:10 encapsulates this concept clearly. “For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.”

Remember, ALL Scripture must be true and accurate all at the same time. Therefore, Rom 10:10 and Acts 3:19, and 1 Pet 3:21 must all be true and accurate at the same time, which means that repentance, confession of Jesus, and baptism are all required to receive salvation.

 

[Wansvic]

....

the man who made it into the wedding feast but was not dressed for the wedding was cast back out into darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (Hell). Does that sound like an allowance of exceptions? It doesn't to me.

Something that may be of interest:

The Apostle Peter pointed out the NT born again believer becomes part of the royal priesthood. (1 Peter 2:9) Note the OT foreshadow below:

“And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.

And thou shalt take the garments, and put upon Aaron the coat, and the robe of the ephod, and the ephod, and the breastplate, and gird him with the curious girdle of the ephod:And thou shalt put the mitre upon his head, and put the holy crown upon the mitre.
Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head, and anoint him.
And thou shalt bring his sons, and put coats upon them.

And thou shalt gird them with girdles, Aaron and his sons, and put the bonnets on them: and the priest's office shall be theirs for a perpetual statute: and thou shalt consecrate Aaron and his sons.” (Ex 29:4-9)


“Then shalt thou kill the ram, and take of his blood, and put it upon the tip of the right ear of Aaron, and upon the tip of the right ear of his sons, and upon the thumb of their right hand, and upon the great toe of their right foot, and sprinkle the blood upon the altar round about.
And thou shalt take of the blood that is upon the altar, and of the anointing oil, and sprinkle it upon Aaron, and upon his garments, and upon his sons, and upon the garments of his sons with him: and he shall be hallowed, and his garments, and his sons, and his sons' garments with him.” Ex 29:20-21



It is through the blood Jesus we have been made into priests and kings. Rev. 5:10

 

[Mercy Shown]

And dipping in Jordan had no salvific power for Naaman. Yet, if he had not done so, he would not have been cleansed of leprosy. So too for us, if we do not submit to baptism then we do not have our sins removed by the Holy Spirit.

Not according to Jesus nor the Father.

Belief AND OBEDIENCE. Faith is not real, is dead and ineffective, if there is no action along with it (James 2:14-26).

You cannot redirect a dead faith by works. Good works are the natural results of complete belief. Disobedience is the decay of dead faith.

Baptism is downstream from salvation.

John 1:12​

But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

 

[Mercy Shown]

Salvation requires belief/faith, and infants cannot believe because they cannot comprehend their sin, their need for a savior, or the sacrifice Jesus made to secure our salvation. There is no efficacy in infant baptism. But there is efficacy in adult baptism of those who have heard the Word, believed it, repented of sin, and confessed Jesus as Lord. For them, during baptism the Holy Spirit cuts their sin from them, and unites them with Jesus' death and resurrection (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, 1 Pet 3:21, Gal 3:26-27, Eph 5:26-27, John 3:5, Acts 2:38, Acts 3:19, Rom 10:9-10, etc.).

Baptism has no power to save anyone. It is, however, an acknowledgement that one has been saved by the death of Jesus Christ. We could sling texts all night long but that is simply pile up all the texts that comport with our own beliefs while ignoring all of those that don’t.

People are saved by God’s sovereign grace and there is nothing man can do to add to that.

Do you agree that a person who is baptized could still be lost?

 

[Mercy Shown]

Note Jesus' statement below. It indicates there are those who believe in Him yet will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Why? They were not obedient.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." (Matt. 7:21-27)


Jesus' sacrifice provided salvation for those who obey Him.
"And being made perfect, he (Jesus) became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb 5:9

Jesus said to go into all the world and teach all nations baptizing them. Teaching them to observe all things He commanded. And, those who believe and are baptized will be saved. (Mark 16:15-16, Matt. 28:19)

I do not see that at all. In fact, I think Jesus was making the opposite point. These people did not know him and He did not know them. Knowing about Jesus is not knowing Jesus.

 

[Mercy Shown]

But repentance, while being necessary for the reception of salvation (Acts 3:19), it does not directly result in salvation, because it is baptism that directly results in the reception of salvation (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14).

No, it is believing that we recieve salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV / 1,503 helpful votes​

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Titus 3:5 ESV / 1,157 helpful votes​

He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Acts 4:12​

And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Romans 10:9​

Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Let me ask you, a gift is placed inside of a room and I tell you to open the door and enter the room and you can have the gift. If you decide to open the door but die before you open it, do you have the gift? No, you do not. Is that fair? Yes. The person who, on his deathbed makes the decision to trust in God has had for his entire life the opportunity and ability to trust in God, but has waited until the very last moment to give his heart over to God. Is that the kind of person God wants? Is that the kind of devotion God wants? Is that what Abraham, Moses, David, etc. did? No. They gave their hearts to God when He first called them, and then remained faithful to Him the rest of their lives.

This whole line of questioning is disingenuous. It seems that you are trying to find exceptions to the rule, and then invalidate the rule because of the exceptions. Will God make exceptions like this? I don't know, because I am not Him. But I cannot teach on the exceptions. I can only teach what His Word says, and let Him decide on any exceptions that He may allow. But then again, the man who made it into the wedding feast but was not dressed for the wedding was cast back out into darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (Hell). Does that sound like an allowance of exceptions? It doesn't to me.

This is not biblical and portrays a god who is more interested in vengeance than in love. If that person believes in their heart and confesses with their mouth the Jesus is their savior they are saved. Praise be to God.

Your doctrine condemns all infants and toddlers to hell.

 

[Wansvic]

I do not see that at all. In fact, I think Jesus was making the opposite point. These people did not know him and He did not know them. Knowing about Jesus is not knowing Jesus.

Actually Jesus went on to explain the point as to why He did not know those who expressed belief in Him:
"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." (Matt. 7:21-27)

Also, at the start of the account Jesus made the point that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matt 7:21) Obedience is essential for the NT rebirth to become a reality for those who believe in Jesus:

"...Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." (Acts 19:1-6)

 

[Wansvic]

Baptism has no power to save anyone. It is, however, an acknowledgement that one has been saved by the death of Jesus Christ. We could sling texts all night long but that is simply pile up all the texts that comport with our own beliefs while ignoring all of those that don’t.

People are saved by God’s sovereign grace and there is nothing man can do to add to that.

Do you agree that a person who is baptized could still be lost?

Note Paul's point. The "IF" in verse 5 speaks volumes. It reveals only those who have been planted together with Jesus into His death will be in the likeness of his resurrection. Verse 6 goes on to make the point that in obedience to water baptism a person's sins are destroyed. Something Jesus made possible for all humanity.

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 FOR IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed..."(Romans 6:3-6)

 

[Mercy Shown]

Note Paul's point. The "IF" in verse 5 speaks volumes. It reveals only those who have been planted together with Jesus into His death will be in the likeness of his resurrection. Verse 6 goes on to make the point that in obedience to water baptism a person's sins are destroyed. Something Jesus made possible for all humanity.

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 FOR IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed..."(Romans 6:3-6)

There is a danger in concentrating only on specific "proof texts" and forming our doctrines on them alone. Indeed, those who come to Christ and have the opportunity to be baptized will do so. However, it is not baptism that saves them; It is the belief.

As the book of Romans teaches in verses 10: 10-13

For with the heart, man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Calling on the name of the Lord in faith saves us, and this is true even if we, like the thief on the Cross, have no opportunity for salvation. Some people claim that the thief on the cross is irrelevant to their doctrine of necessary baptism because it is pre-Pentecost. But this can't be true because John's disciples came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—look, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.” (John 3:26)

If baptism is an obstacle to salvation but wasn't in the ages before Pentecost, then there must have been a name other than Christ that saved people like David. It also precludes all children not old enough to make a decision.

Is baptism important? Yes, if it is accompanied by genuine faith and belief in the salvation God has wrought for all human beings. Then, it is an outward expression of identification with Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection and a public declaration of faith in Christ. It signifies that Christ has given you a way to show that you are walking in a newness of life. It is a way to acknowledge that you are inducted into the Christian community and to connect with other believers. It represents the end of a self-centered life and the beginning of a new life of doing the will of God.

But if there is no opportunity for baptism, take heart, for God is more significant than baptism. Like the paraplegic lowered through the roof of Peter's house, He can and will turn to the repentant sinner who is in no circumstance that would allow baptism and declare, "Your sins are forgiven you."

 

[Mercy Shown]

Actually Jesus went on to explain the point as to why He did not know those who expressed belief in Him:
"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." (Matt. 7:21-27)

This is precisely the opposite. They heard the saying but did not act on it. This is the exact definition of not knowing or believing in him. They built their houses on what they believed in: sand!

They heard but chose to disbelieve.

Also, at the start of the account Jesus made the point that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matt 7:21) Obedience is essential for the NT rebirth to become a reality for those who believe in Jesus:

Obedience is the fruit of belief and rebirth. It is not the engine that drives it. The Father is the drawing engine, and the Son is the passage to the Father.
John 6:44 states, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."

John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

"...Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." (Acts 19:1-6)

You consistently provide examples of those who are able to be baptized. If they are able and they don't, it is the lack of faith that disqualifies them from salvation, which is exhibited in their refusal of baptism. Jesus told Zacheus, "This day, salvation has come to this house." It was not in response to his baptism but instead to His belief. Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before He was baptized while Peter was still speaking. Acts 15:8-9 records this about the incident. "God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us."

 

[Doug Brents]

Not according to Jesus nor the Father.

Prove it. Show where either of them said differently.

You cannot redirect a dead faith by works. Good works are the natural results of complete belief. Disobedience is the decay of dead faith.

Baptism is downstream from salvation.

Baptism is the point at which salvation is received. It is not "downstream" (whatever that means). Jesus said two things must be present for a person to be born again: the Spirit and water (John 3:5). He commands everyone who wants to be His follower to be baptized (Matt 28:19) in order to receive salvation (Mark 16:16). His Apostles said that baptism was the point at which salvation is received (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, 1 Pet 3:21). And that it is in baptism that we are made pure (Eph 5:26-27), and are clothed with Christ and made God's children (Gal 3:26-27).

John 1:12​

But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

Those who believe in Him have "the right to become" children of God, they do not become His children because they believed only. Yes, belief is absolutely necessary, but so is repentance (Acts 3:19), confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism (Acts 2:38).

If ALL of Scripture is God's Word, then ALL of Scripture must be true at the same time. This means that Rom 10:9-10 is just as true and vital to salvation as is John 1:12.

 

[Doug Brents]

Baptism has no power to save anyone.

Neither does the water of Jordan have the power to remove leprosy.

It is, however, an acknowledgement that one has been saved by the death of Jesus Christ.

So you are saying that Naaman was cleansed of leprosy before he entered Jordan, but dipped seven times to show that he had already been cleansed? That is not what Scripture says about it.

We could sling texts all night long but that is simply pile up all the texts that comport with our own beliefs while ignoring all of those that don’t.

No, all Scripture must be true and correct all that the same time. So if there are Scriptures that contradict what you are saying, then Scripture must rule. The actions we take in obedience to God are actions of faith, not "good works" that follow after salvation is received. Rom 10:9-10 shows conclusively that there are actions that MUST precede our reception of salvation (confession of Jesus as Lord "with the mouth")(baptism (Acts 2:38) and repentance (Acts 3:19) also precede our reception of salvation).

People are saved by God’s sovereign grace and there is nothing man can do to add to that.

Do you agree that a person who is baptized could still be lost?

Certainly, if a person has not repented. Or is baptized in some other name than Jesus. Or if they do not confess that Jesus is Lord. This is the same as saying that a nation could march around a city once a day for six days and seven times on the seventh day and the walls of that city not fall down. It is God's power that knocked the walls down, and God's power that removes our sins, but He does so in response to our obedience to His commands that He says lead to/result in receiving His blessing/gift.

No, it is believing that we recieve salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV / 1,503 helpful votes​

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Titus 3:5 ESV / 1,157 helpful votes​

He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Acts 4:12​

And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Romans 10:9​

Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

What is "belief"? The word is translated from the Greek word "pistis" (and its derivatives). And pistis means "faith". Faith without action is dead (James 2:26). The actions we take that God commanded "lead to/result in" salvation are actions of faith that fulfill these passages' mention of "belief/faith". If there are no actions, then there is no faith.

This is not biblical and portrays a god who is more interested in vengeance than in love. If that person believes in their heart and confesses with their mouth the Jesus is their savior they are saved. Praise be to God.

Is confession of Jesus as Lord "with the mouth" a physical action? Yes, it is. And you just stated that this action results in that person receiving salvation. You cannot have it both ways here. Either Scripture is true and correct in EVERY respect, or you can just make up whatever you want to be the path to salvation and God will give it to you. God says that we must repent in order to receive salvation (Acts 3:19). God says we must confess His name with our mouth in order to receive salvation (Rom 10:9-10). And God says that we must be baptized in order to receive salvation (Acts 2:39, 1 Pet 3:21, Mark 16:16, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, Gal 3:26-27, Eph 5:26-27, John 3:5).

Your doctrine condemns all infants and toddlers to hell.

Not at all. I believe that Scripture is clear that children are born "safe" (meaning without sin), and that they will go to Heaven when they die. This is why King David said that he would no longer weep for his dead son, because he would go to him (2 Sam 12:23). It is not until we know right from wrong and choose wrong that we sin. If we never know right from wrong we do not sin (Rom 4:15). So children, and even adults who never developed the mental acumen to understand right from wrong, are not guilty of sin.

 

[Wansvic]

There is a danger in concentrating only on specific "proof texts" and forming our doctrines on them alone. Indeed, those who come to Christ and have the opportunity to be baptized will do so. However, it is not baptism that saves them; It is the belief.

As the book of Romans teaches in verses 10: 10-13

For with the heart, man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Calling on the name of the Lord in faith saves us, and this is true even if we, like the thief on the Cross, have no opportunity for salvation. Some people claim that the thief on the cross is irrelevant to their doctrine of necessary baptism because it is pre-Pentecost. But this can't be true because John's disciples came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—look, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.” (John 3:26)

If baptism is an obstacle to salvation but wasn't in the ages before Pentecost, then there must have been a name other than Christ that saved people like David. It also precludes all children not old enough to make a decision.

Is baptism important? Yes, if it is accompanied by genuine faith and belief in the salvation God has wrought for all human beings. Then, it is an outward expression of identification with Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection and a public declaration of faith in Christ. It signifies that Christ has given you a way to show that you are walking in a newness of life. It is a way to acknowledge that you are inducted into the Christian community and to connect with other believers. It represents the end of a self-centered life and the beginning of a new life of doing the will of God.

But if there is no opportunity for baptism, take heart, for God is more significant than baptism. Like the paraplegic lowered through the roof of Peter's house, He can and will turn to the repentant sinner who is in no circumstance that would allow baptism and declare, "Your sins are forgiven you."

Paul's explanation of baptism is clear. It is an intregal part of the NT rebirth. It does not in and of itself save but it is essential for salvation.

As to your comments scripture reveals:
Calling on the name of Jesus is accomplished in obedience to water baptism. (Acts 22:16, 2:21, 38; 8:12-18; 10:43, 47-48; 19:1-7; 1 Cor 1:2, 13-15)

Jesus prophesied that the NT water baptism would include calling on His name in accordance with His sacrifice. He said that repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name in all nations beginning in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:46-47, Acts 2:21, 38; 8:12-18; 10:43, 47-48; 19:1-7; 22:16, 1 Cor 1:2, 13-15)

The thief on the cross did not need to believe and obey the NT mandate. As the command did not take effect until the Day of Pentecost as prophesied by Jesus. (Luke 24:46-47, Acts 2:21, 38)

God's water baptism command requires a conscience decision, therefore it does not apply to infants and children.

Water baptism is much more than an outward expression as Paul's own experience and explanation reveals. (Acts 22:16, Romans 6:3-6)

Your mention of the paraplegic lowered through the roof shows where there is a will there's a way. He determined to come in contact with Jesus and prevailed.

Keep in mind that it is the sum of God's word that reveals the truth. (Psalm 119:160)

 

[Mercy Shown]

Paul's explanation of baptism is clear. It is an intregal part of the NT rebirth. It does not in and of itself save but it is essential for salvation.

As to your comments scripture reveals:
Calling on the name of Jesus is accomplished in obedience to water baptism. (Acts 22:16, 2:21, 38; 8:12-18; 10:43, 47-48; 19:1-7; 1 Cor 1:2, 13-15)

Thanks be to our merciful Heavenly Father who saves us even when we cannot be baptized as is testified by the paraplegic, Zaccheaus and the thief on the cross etc.

To deny God’s sovereign grace extended to all who by faith recieve it because one cannot be baptized is simply against the scriptures.

To all who recieve Him, God adopts as His children, even those who have no opportunity or means to be baptized.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Neither does the water of Jordan have the power to remove leprosy.

So you are saying that Naaman was cleansed of leprosy before he entered Jordan, but dipped seven times to show that he had already been cleansed? That is not what Scripture says about it.

No, what I am saying is that there is no equivelancy between baptism and Naamen’s washing in the Jordan. Naamen was not being baptized.

No, all Scripture must be true and correct all that the same time. So if there are Scriptures that contradict what you are saying, then Scripture must rule. The actions we take in obedience to God are actions of faith, not "good works" that follow after salvation is received. Rom 10:9-10 shows conclusively that there are actions that MUST precede our reception of salvation (confession of Jesus as Lord "with the mouth")(baptism (Acts 2:38) and repentance (Acts 3:19) also precede our reception of salvation).

Your position mean that salvation is earned by keeping the commandments and selling all you have to give to the poor as Christ instructed. You can’t ignore all of the examples of those being saved but couldn’t be baptized due to circumstances.

Certainly, if a person has not repented. Or is baptized in some other name than Jesus. Or if they do not confess that Jesus is Lord. This is the same as saying that a nation could march around a city once a day for six days and seven times on the seventh day and the walls of that city not fall down. It is God's power that knocked the walls down, and God's power that removes our sins, but He does so in response to our obedience to His commands that He says lead to/result in receiving His blessing/gift.

What is "belief"? The word is translated from the Greek word "pistis" (and its derivatives). And pistis means "faith". Faith without action is dead (James 2:26). The actions we take that God commanded "lead to/result in" salvation are actions of faith that fulfill these passages' mention of "belief/faith". If there are no actions, then there is no faith.

Is confession of Jesus as Lord "with the mouth" a physical action? Yes, it is. And you just stated that this action results in that person receiving salvation. You cannot have it both ways here. Either Scripture is true and correct in EVERY respect, or you can just make up whatever you want to be the path to salvation and God will give it to you. God says that we must repent in order to receive salvation (Acts 3:19). God says we must confess His name with our mouth in order to receive salvation (Rom 10:9-10). And God says that we must be baptized in order to receive salvation (Acts 2:39, 1 Pet 3:21, Mark 16:16, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, Gal 3:26-27, Eph 5:26-27, John 3:5).

Not at all. I believe that Scripture is clear that children are born "safe" (meaning without sin), and that they will go to Heaven when they die. This is why King David said that he would no longer weep for his dead son, because he would go to him (2 Sam 12:23). It is not until we know right from wrong and choose wrong that we sin. If we never know right from wrong we do not sin (Rom 4:15). So children, and even adults who never developed the mental acumen to understand right from wrong, are not guilty of sin.

You are not addressing the issue. The issue is not baptism itself, it is whether or not a person who cannot be baptized due to their circumstances and yet they have come to Christ then cannot be saved.

A simple example: A sinner is exploring the desert and runs out of water. This drives them to pray and they recieve deep conviction of their sins. They repent and accept Christ as their savior but they subsequently expire due to thirst before they are rescued. Will God then damn them to hell because they were not baptized?

 

[Wansvic]

This is precisely the opposite. They heard the saying but did not act on it. This is the exact definition of not knowing or believing in him. They built their houses on what they believed in: sand!

They heard but chose to disbelieve.

Obedience is the fruit of belief and rebirth. It is not the engine that drives it. The Father is the drawing engine, and the Son is the passage to the Father.
John 6:44 states, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."

John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

You consistently provide examples of those who are able to be baptized. If they are able and they don't, it is the lack of faith that disqualifies them from salvation, which is exhibited in their refusal of baptism. Jesus told Zacheus, "This day, salvation has come to this house." It was not in response to his baptism but instead to His belief. Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before He was baptized while Peter was still speaking. Acts 15:8-9 records this about the incident. "God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us."

Obedience brings about the NT rebirth it is not the fruit of it.

Jesus revealed and scripture confirms, over and over, that water and Spirit are both essential elements of the NT rebirth. (John 3:3-5, Mark 16:15-16, Matthew 28:19, Acts 22:16; 2:21, 38; 8:12-18; 10:43, 47-48; 19:1-7; 1 Cor 1:2, 13-15)

Also, Luke 6:48 reveals the foundation must be laid upon the rock, the rock being Jesus. (John 14:6) And according to the writer of Hebrews, One of the foundational elements is water baptism. And once properly laid, the foundation does not have to be repeated:

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."

Jesus forgave many people while on earth. However, after He ascended and shed forth the Holy Spirit the NT rebirth was instituted. An experience available to all those who would believe and obey. (Heb. 5:9, Mark 16:15-16)

Lastly, the sequence in which the Holy Spirit is received and obedience to water baptism takes place does not matter. What does matter is that both occur; as the experiences bring about the reality of the NT rebirth. (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

 

[Mercy Shown]

Baptism is the point at which salvation is received. It is not "downstream" (whatever that means). Jesus said two things must be present for a person to be born again: the Spirit and water (John 3:5). He commands everyone who wants to be His follower to be baptized (Matt 28:19) in order to receive salvation (Mark 16:16). His Apostles said that baptism was the point at which salvation is received (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, 1 Pet 3:21). And that it is in baptism that we are made pure (Eph 5:26-27), and are clothed with Christ and made God's children (Gal 3:26-27).

That is what your collections of proof texts seem to say. But I can collect as many or more that say it is by faith alone. Or I can present a collection of texts that say it is by receiving Christ. The preponderance of NT teaching focuses on belief on Jesus Christ.

Baptism is downstream from salvation. We are baptized because he saved us.

Consider:
Romans 4:3-5 - For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness." Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.

Romans 10:8-10 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Romans 3:23–26 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Acts 15:8-9 - And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.

Philippians 3:8-9 - Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.

Galatians 3:5-6 - Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith - just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?

Ephesians 1:13-14 - In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

2 Timothy 1:9 - 9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

Acts 10:47 - “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”