What makes something sinful?

[Sayre]

I'm wondering if the bible is clear on what exactly makes something sinful?

If you answer, please make sure your answer is clear about what attribute of an action makes it sinful.

If lawlessness is sinful, then why is lawlessness wrong?

If sex before marriage is sinful, what property / attribute of sex before marriage causes the sin?

Is it because something has value and that value was reduced? ie. is purity of value, and sex makes purity less pure hence there is less value?

I'm lost.

 

[football5680]

Something is sinful depending on what the action is, and the intent and mindset behind it. If you kill somebody in anger then it is a sin, but if you kill in self defense then you are justified and it wouldn't be a sin. You must also be at an age where you can discern right from wrong and choose good or evil. A young child cannot sin against God until they reach that point. The exact age differs from person to person.

If sex before marriage is sinful, what property / attribute of sex before marriage causes the sin?

It is wrong because people are following their lustful desires without regard for the consequences of their actions and it endangers society as a whole. If a woman has a child while she isn't married then the father is under no obligation to raise the child. He could deny the child and the mother would have to bring the child up on her own which was much more difficult in the past, and is still difficult for mothers today. A woman would have trouble finding a job in the past and men wouldn't find her desirable since she already had a child by another man. So the mother and child would have a tough time surviving and on top of that the child would start at the bottom of society with little hope of ever moving up.

 

[Sayre]

I don't follow. That makes sin dependent on consequence. Surely that can't be right. What about people who have sex outside of marriage and don't fall pregnant?

I want to be clear that I am not promoting sin so maybe we need to base the conversation on a different topic.

 

[aiki]

I'm wondering if the bible is clear on what exactly makes something sinful?

If you answer, please make sure your answer is clear about what attribute of an action makes it sinful.

If lawlessness is sinful, then why is lawlessness wrong?

If sex before marriage is sinful, what property / attribute of sex before marriage causes the sin?

Is it because something has value and that value was reduced? ie. is purity of value, and sex makes purity less pure hence there is less value?

I'm lost.

A thing is sin when it contravenes the law/command of God.

Romans 3:19
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Romans 4:15
15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

This is what the apostle John is referring to when he writes:

1 John 3:4
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.


Selah.

 

[Jake255]

The word sin literally means to 'miss the mark'. God's standards are perfection, Jesus was His standard, so anything not up to that point, is missing the mark. The definition also includes an illustration of a target, when you miss the center, you miss the mark.

Anything that is against God's standards is sin. It also reminds me of this verse:

James 4:17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them.

If we know we should be feeding the poor, and we don't do it, it is a sin for us. If we know we should attend church and don't do it - you get the point.

 

[Willie T]

A good thing to keep in mind is that we tend to think in the terms of "sins" (acts), whereas God sees "sin" as a heart attitude.

 

[Jake255]

A good thing to keep in mind is that we tend to think in the terms of "sins" (acts), whereas God sees "sin" as a heart attitude.

Whoa, yes, that's a good point. We might not know what we're doing is a sin, we think we're doing good but until God shows us the true intent behind our actions we won't know.

I think all sin comes from pride, too.

 

[seashale76]

For the Christian, everything can be related back to communion/eucharist. Marriage is a sacrament. It is also considered a martyrdom. You deny yourself for the sake of your spouse. You also aren't joined together with someone who also isn't in communion. When you engage in fornication- it is a proclamation that you are refusing to deny yourself for the sake of Christ and are choosing to engage your passions- you are knowingly excommunicating yourself. When one is baptized into Christ they are part of the body of Christ- the temple of the Holy Spirit- receiving Christ in the Holy Mysteries. Willfully sinning in this manner is serious business- one risks their soul unless they repent and return to the hospital for what ails us.

 

[Willie T]

Whoa, yes, that's a good point. We might not know what we're doing is a sin, we think we're doing good but until God shows us the true intent behind our actions we won't know.

I think all sin comes from pride, too.

It kind of shines a light on "dead works" when we let ourselves get to the point that they are just "expected" repetitions that we go through without worship and thankfulness entering into it much anymore.

I honestly have found myself doing that with our feeding of the homeless. It shakes me back into reality when I catch myself drifting into that mode. Not a pretty thing to see in yourself.

 

[Jake255]

It kind of shines a light on "dead works" when we let ourselves get to the point that they are just "expected" repetitions that we go through without worship and thankfulness entering into it much anymore.

I honestly have found myself doing that with our feeding of the homeless. It shakes me back into reality when I catch myself drifting into that mode. Not a pretty thing to see in yourself.

I don't want to get off topic here, but in regards to "dead works", which is a sin, there are many people I talk to at church who sort of brag and declare they have taken on a social issue, such as homelessness but you can kind of tell they weren't really called into their position. I'm not saying they shouldn't help the homeless, but if a person is not called by God, they shouldn't go.

Everyone wants to lead, no one wants to follow sort of mentality going on. Sinful because you're doing your own thing and not God's.

 

[ebia]

I'm wondering if the bible is clear on what exactly makes something sinful? If you answer, please make sure your answer is clear about what attribute of an action makes it sinful. If lawlessness is sinful, then why is lawlessness wrong? If sex before marriage is sinful, what property / attribute of sex before marriage causes the sin? Is it because something has value and that value was reduced? ie. is purity of value, and sex makes purity less pure hence there is less value? I'm lost.

I don't know that the bible does spell it out. After all, the bible works mostly by story. Although the bible never uses the term, I think when taken as a whole it's best understood through a virtue model - that is that ultimately it's not actions but character that is fundamental. Something is sinful if it's not what a virtuous person would do.

 

[Sayre]

I don't know that the bible does spell it out. After all, the bible works mostly by story. Although the bible never uses the term, I think when taken as a whole it's best understood through a virtue model - that is that ultimately it's not actions but character that is fundamental. Something is sinful if it's not what a virtuous person would do.

Ok - this comes pretty close to answering my question, thanks Ebia.

 

[ebia]

Ok - this comes pretty close to answering my question, thanks Ebia.

An absolutely brilliant book on the area is Tom Wright's "Virtue Reborn". (Re titled "After you believe" in North America).

 

[Sayre]

An absolutely brilliant book on the area is Tom Wright's "Virtue Reborn". (Re titled "After you believe" in North America).

His name comes up often amongst my Christian friends. I ought to check him out I think

 

[ebia]

His name comes up often amongst my Christian friends. I ought to check him out I think

I find him unequalled in presenting a Christian theology that is coherent, thoughtful, and makes sense of both the whole of scripture and our experience in the word.

 

[talitha]

Sin - that which does not please God.

 

[~Anastasia~]

The simplest way I could say it is that Jesus tells us when we love God, and love others, we are fulfilling the law (which we would be not sinning in that).

But I'd also ask, before I gave an answer, why you are asking? I see you wanted to be clear that you are not promoting sin.

I think sin is better understood over time as the Holy Spirit teaches us. When someone first comes to God, He may let that person know that blasphemy is wrong (I'm just going to give examples - it's different for every person). But God may not make it immediately clear that smoking cigarettes is a sin. Later, the person may reach that understanding, and want to quit smoking. Still later, he may come to realize that looking at his (sinful) neighbor and seeing himself as "better" is a sin - he is prideful over the righteousness he has obtained. And so it goes ... the Holy Spirit makes us more and more like Christ. Some people learn faster, some slower. God may be more concerned with pride in one person immediately after they come to him, while another may become convicted about it until God has dealt with other sins in their life.

We are all always learning - or we should be.

I've been on the forum less than two months, and have learned since being here. There are posts I can look at having made in the past, and I would not say the same thing now.

And while (non-believing) scholars sometimes study the Scriptures for decades, their understanding may not be as clear on Spiritual truths as a fairly new believer who has the Scriptures made alive in his understanding by the ministry of the Holy Spirit. So to approach it from a purely academic sense can lead to very unbalanced views, in my opinion.

 

[Sayre]

I said I was not promoting sin so that the thread didn't get shut down. I am trying to understand what makes sin wrong.

 

[talitha]

I said I was not promoting sin so that the thread didn't get shut down. I am trying to understand what makes sin wrong.

Sin is wrong because the whole game of human existence is about coming into fellowship with God, and sin muddles it up.

 

[Sayre]

That really doesn't answer my question thought.

What makes pre marital sex wrong?
It is wrong because it is a sin.
What makes it a sin?

What attribute of it? Is anything that destroys fellowship with God a sin? Even those things that in another context have no consequence? This sounds like consequentialism.