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What makes Evolution a theory?

The Barbarian

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Unlike Newton's three laws of motion, the Theory of Evolution is not a hard physical theory.
Newton's Laws of Motion are not a theory. They are merely laws. Laws explain what scientists expect to see under specific circumstances. Theories also do this, but in addition, theories also explain why. Hence Newton's Laws of Motion, but Newton's theory of Gravitation. Like Evolutionary Theory, Gravitational theory is accepted because both of these make predictions that have been repeatedly confirmed by subsequent evidence. Gravitational Theory is mot quite as hard a physical theory as Evolutionary theory; we know why evolution works, but we still aren't quite sure why gravity works.
 
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Hvizsgyak

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Actually, the theory is the whole elephant. The individual data are not individual theories. A scientific theory is an explanation of all the data with one unifying framework.
In my eyes, the theory of evolution and the big bang theory can be easily summed up by that cartoon. Here is why:

Evolution: Most scientists agree that they don't have a great number of reliable fossils to prove anything based upon the trillions of hominids that have existed on this planet. It's like a drop in the bucket. What they have is what they are basing the evolution theory on.

I use to watch wheel of fortune alot and played hangman alot. In both of those games, I have been able to guess the long word or complicated phrase with just one or two letters revealed. I can tell you though that has only happened a handful of times and it was pure luck. Evolution bases it's answers on the letters it has revealed (and in this case probably 4 or 5 letters only out of 45 letters) and it is standing solid on the guess they are making based on those 4 or 5 letters. That is why Galileo got in so much hot water with the Catholic Church.



Galileo just could "bring the sauce home" to absolutely prove his finding. The proof finally came but it was hundreds of years later when we entered in space.

So goes the same with evolution and big bang theories. Until science can gives us something solid, they will remain theories and they should be treated like that.
 
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Hvizsgyak

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That usage of 'theory' is not the same as in the 'theory' of Evolution. This OP is about scientific theories.
Theory is theory. Some are just backed up a little stronger with certain facts.
 
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River Jordan

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Evolution: Most scientists agree that they don't have a great number of reliable fossils to prove anything based upon the trillions of hominids that have existed on this planet. It's like a drop in the bucket. What they have is what they are basing the evolution theory on.
You wouldn't happen to have a source for that statement, would you?

Until science can gives us something solid, they will remain theories and they should be treated like that.
What do you think the next step above scientific theory is?
 
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Hvizsgyak

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Define theory
 
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CoreyD

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To repeat, evolution is true because it's something we see take place.
Isn't that why the theory of evolution can never be said to be true, because while the theory seeks to explain the facts, it falls short in many areas. One of those areas is seeking to explain what we do not see... like the changes that we can never see within a billion years.
14-macroevo_equation-2.png
 
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Hvizsgyak

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In everyday use, the word "theory" often means an untested hunch, or a guess without supporting evidence.But for scientists, a theory has nearly the opposite meaning. A theory is a well-substantiated explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can incorporate laws, hypotheses and facts.
It's still just a hunch :oldthumbsup:.
 
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River Jordan

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Isn't that why the theory of evolution can never be said to be true, because while the theory seeks to explain the facts, it falls short in many areas.
No. The theory of evolution explains how evolution takes place. Evolution taking place is a fact.

One of those areas is seeking to explain what we do not see... like the changes that we can never see within a billion years.
You're not advocating that old argument about scientists not being able to study events that took place a long time ago, are you?
 
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River Jordan

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It's still just a hunch :oldthumbsup:.
No, it's a scientific theory like the germ theory of disease or the atomic theory of matter.

You can not agree with it and complain about it if you want, but at least make an effort to be accurate when you do.
 
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CoreyD

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Evolution is a theory and will always be a theory in the age of satan. As it is based on sinful mans observations and not the truth of God.

Satan may even use this theory as time moves on, in the up and coming tribulation. To draw people away from God, to the worship of satan himself.
Evolution isn't the theory.

Suppose you observed a butterfly metamorphosis, and came up with a theory to explain it, we might call it the theory of metamorphosis
Metamorphosis isn't the theory.

In the same way, the process we see taking place - for example, a population of birds with bigger beaks, than their ancestors, which scientists call evolution, is not a theory.
The explanation given as to how and why this happens , is the theory.

While what we see, is true - a population of birds with varied traits from their ancestors, what is theorized (the theory) cannot be said to be true.
Many hypotheses are the foundation and composition of the theory,
For example... LUCA; the phylogenetic tree...

The last universal common ancestor (LUCA) is the hypothesized common ancestral cell from which the three domains of life, the Bacteria, the Archaea, and the Eukarya originated.

In biology, phylogenetics is the study of the evolutionary history of life using genetics, which is known as phylogenetic inference. It establishes the relationship between organisms with the empirical data and observed heritable traits of DNA sequences, protein amino acid sequences, and morphology. The results are a phylogenetic tree - a diagram depicting the hypothetical relationships between organisms and their evolutionary history.

With so many ideas, in a "rigorous" explanation, hardly can one even associate the words "truth", or "fact", with the theory of evolution.
 
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tonychanyt

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I asked to define theory, not evolution
 
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Hvizsgyak

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To repeat, evolution is true because it's something we see take place.
That is debatable. Science has over-saturated the terminology used in describing evolution. But I will use the terminology I learned back in my 10th Biology Class (45 years ago :)).
  • Domain: Eukaryota
  • Kingdom: Animalia
  • Phylum: Chordata
  • Class: Mammalia
  • Order: Primates
  • Family: Hominidae
  • Genus: Homo
  • Species: sapiens

Evolution in the Species sapiens - no problem, evolution in the Genus Homo - sure, why not, evolution in the Family Hominidae - a tighter sure, why not, evolution in the Order Primates - very questionable (show me the evidence), evolution in the Class Mammalia - show me the evidence, evolution in the Phylum Chordata - show me the evidence, evolution in the Kingdom Animalia - show me the evidence and finally evolution in the Domain Eukaryota - don't worry about it, I don't even remember what that means or is.

Now I have a question for those who truly believe in evolution (and I'm not trying to prove anything here, I'm just curious) as man is classified above into the different groups, could you do the same for Australopithecus afarensis. Thanks.
 
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Hvizsgyak

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You wouldn't happen to have a source for that statement, would you?


What do you think the next step above scientific theory is?
This is info I've gathered from reading scientific articles and watching scientific documentaries. So, no I don't have any sources for my statement that I remember. But based on the number of times different articles or documentaries stated the same statement, I'm going to go with it as fact.

As for your question on scientific theory, I'm not in need of knowing "what the next step above scientific theory is" to show that you are using "evolution in a vague form.
To repeat, evolution is true because it's something we see take place.
Yes, there is evolution between Families, but you have absolutely no proof that something formed in some "primordial soup", grew eyes and legs, crawl out of the "primordial soup" and slowly evolved into a man.
 
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CoreyD

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No. The theory of evolution explains how evolution takes place. Evolution taking place is a fact.
I'm not sure what you are arguing here.
However,, if you are claiming that the theory of evolution explains how new and complex features arise, please give us that explanation.
If you are saying that the theory of evolution tries to explain various traits,, I do agree.

If you are saying that the theory does explain these traits, you'll have to be specific, because there is a lot of evolution the theory fails to explain.
Here is one...

The evolutionary history of snake venom is a matter of debate. Historically, snake venom was believed to have evolved once, at the base of the Caenophidia, or derived snakes. Molecular studies published beginning in 2006 suggested that venom originated just once among a putative clade of reptiles, called Toxicofera, approximately 170 million years ago. Under this hypothesis, the original toxicoferan venom was a very simple set of proteins that were assembled in a pair of glands.​
...​
The Toxicoferan hypothesis was challenged by studies in the mid-2010s, including a 2015 study which found that venom proteins had homologs in many other tissues in the Burmese python. The study therefore suggested that venom had evolved independently in different reptile lineages, including once in the Caenophid snakes. Venom containing most extant toxin families is believed to have been present in the last common ancestor of the Caenophidia: these toxins subsequently underwent tremendous diversification, accompanied by changes in the morphology of venom glands and delivery systems.​
...​
These various adaptations of venom have also led to considerable debate about the definition of venom and venomous snakes.​

So, according to the facts, yes, the theory does fall short of explaining diversity, and complexity.

You're not advocating that old argument about scientists not being able to study events that took place a long time ago, are you?
Me.? No.
I didn't say that.
There is a difference between studying something, and knowing the truth about something.
Wouldn't you agree?
 
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Hvizsgyak

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This sentence has no operational meaning.
The scientific theory is a hunch that has some facts to make it sound (but not absolutely true). There were alot of theories on certain the causes of certain phenomena in outer space until JWST proved them wrong. Someday, I feel, there will be a "JWST" enlightenment for the Theory of Evolution (from Primordial Soup to Homo Sapiens)
 
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Job 33:6

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In my eyes, the theory of evolution and the big bang theory can be easily summed up by that cartoon. Here is why:

Evolution: Most scientists agree that they don't have a great number of reliable fossils to prove anything based upon the trillions of hominids that have existed on this planet.
Actually, 99% of scientists accept the theory of evolution, including paleontologists. What rock have you been living under the past 100 years?
 
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Hvizsgyak

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No, it's a scientific theory like the germ theory of disease or the atomic theory of matter.

You can not agree with it and complain about it if you want, but at least make an effort to be accurate when you do.
Look, when the rubber hits the road, it's just a scientific hunch. You guys just make it sound like it is something more than it is.
 
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