What is "tough love" and are you a fan of it?

[Hidden In Him]

Jus' beat the sin right out of 'em like Jesus.......oh wait!

I provided Biblical support for the fact that our God has always exercised discipline and always will.

I'm in favor of discipline (Proverbs 13:24; Proverbs 29:15), as is our Lord in how He has always dealt with His children (Hebrews 12:6-7; Revelation 3:19), and will always deal with His children (Revelation 2:27). But this discipline must always be administered in love, not anger, lest it become abuse.

If you think this is an unBiblical position to take, please give scriptural support otherwise.

 

[rturner76]

wrong forum

 

[ml5363]

I use tough love sometimes, the world is sugar coated with rainbows and lollipops all the time.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Remember the good 'ol days ways, especially like in the navy - have a quarrel, duke it out, over in 5 minutes or 30 minutes tops, then go to chow together !

Then, the bad creepy insidious cancer of society creeped in, gradually at first, then more and more,
until even a bad word , or a sun burn, or a shove, or a punch, no matter how innocuous (harmless), could (often) result in paperwork monster trail that never disappears, or rarely - that sticks with the service member longer than prostate cancer ! .... hanging over their head throughout active service and sometimes all their lives .... i.e. NOT a good way to work things out - better to let
everything be as it was (not as if it ever will be again), done and over in 30 minutes and forgotten in an hour....

Just one for example....

Another one - open rebuke is better than hidden love ... not trying to play nicey nice, tip toe through a myriad of feelings/ being more deceptive perhaps than real, all because of social (ungodly, unscriptural) customs local or more wide spread ... "don't offend" "don't make waves" - let much worse things happen instead of make waves ! .... and so on.... ie.TRUTH, preferably gently and kind with kindness and with motive of healing, is best.... but if as needed "open rebuke", (as seen in OLD and NEW TESTAMENTS frequently),
is
definitely better than hidden (timid?) un-correcting love.

I can tell from your post that you are sick and tired of the current PC, Politically Correct vibe in society. I'm old enough to empathise with your point of view. And it does tire me when I see people use PC on here to make others feel guilty. Unchristian IMO.
But re physical fights. A number of cases in Australia where one punch landed and the recipient falls and hits their head on the concrete or asphalt car park. Either killed or severely disabled. Better to avoid violence if you can. Only last resort.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

I'm sorry but calling me a 'snowflake' for having emotional problems

I must've missed that one. Calling people names is not tough love.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Like for instance, "you need to grow up". That type of thing to hear when one is depressed doesn't necessarily inspire..motivation.

"You need to grow up" is not a useful thing to say to anyone in my opinion. Its more judgemental than helpful. Better someone is more specific. "I'd like you to do more cleaning around the house Paul. Clean your dishes and put them away. Vacuum all the rooms. Not just some. I'm tired of cleaning up after you!"

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Better to avoid violence if you can. Only last resort.

Certainly - no argument there.

Just even kids wrestling, 'jostling', playing, has brought lawsuits in the untied states even.... frivolous suits, just for money - even millions of dollars, when no one was hurt - and a lot more suits settled "out of court" for unpublished huge amounts, just to avoid court costs even though the accused could easily win if brought to court - but winning, lose money not regainable.. and lose time, etc

Wrestling and punching NOT for 'violence' though somewhat might be, but more like the well known animals from elephants to birds 'pecking order' by strength or show of strength - but for people more of a 'correction' - a much much less harmful correction when done and over in minutes, instead of 'pc' or "throw the book at 'em" that harms everyone involved (both sides) for the rest of their lives, AND their families and sometimes friends....


OR to put it simpler even: stress breakers - blowing off steam, without ANY maliciousness (evil intent)... no evil intent, not even "enemies" - just wrestling like Jacob wrestled with an angel ! .. ?

or other "honest" taking care of things without any bad side effects - without ANY BAD EFFECTS....

whereas pc action, court action, legal tags, ALWAYS have bad effects for everyone...

Like the old time song - "Looking for honesty" or "Is there honesty any more?"
something like that - haven't even heard
of people looking for honesty any more for a decade (few exceptions)...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I must've missed that one. Calling people names is not tough love.

Right - in the sense never seek to put down nor in any way harm anyone weak in faith, with or without any disability or challenge,

but in view of what JESUS and the disciples called some of the opponents of the GOSPEL, there is a place and time where the truth is "name calling" / not like a slur ever, but direct, blunt truth revealing or exposing straight to the point as needed ,
as directed by the Father in heaven through His Spirit/ His Wisdom/ His Judgment NOT our own worldly or carnal or temporal or fleshy wisdom or knowledge...

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

but in view of what JESUS and the disciples called some of the opponents of the GOSPEL, there is a place and time where the truth is "name calling" / not like a slur ever, but direct, blunt truth revealing or exposing straight to the point as needed ,

OK. On here I've been called a heretic, a relativist, a backslider, even an anti-Christ on one occasion.
People tend to use names to dismiss others, to win arguments, to belittle, to polarise, to exclude others from their clique.
Can you give some examples of when Jesus used name-calling?

 

[Hidden In Him]

The word "discipline" means "to make a follower" as a disciple is a follower. Must you beat a man to make him your follower?

No. But since we are discussing the proper Biblical position to take, this would necessitate dealing with the actual texts in question. So give me your exact interpretation of this one passage for starters, given your particular interpretation of the word "discipline":

For whomever the Lord loves He disciplines, and scourges every son whom He receives. If you endure discipline, God is dealing with you as sons; for what son is there whom the father does not discipline? (Hebrews 12:6-7)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

OK. On here I've been called a heretic, a relativist, a backslider, even an anti-Christ on one occasion.
People tend to use names to dismiss others, to win arguments, to belittle, to polarise, to exclude others from their clique.
Can you give some examples of when Jesus used name-calling?

FIRST of all , please, are you serious ?

I thought anyone who has read through the GOSPELS would be aware of this...

No, I am not belittling anyone, but yes I find it hard to believe this is not known (or known better)...

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

I thought anyone who has read through the GOSPELS would be aware of this...

You'll find the gap between your knowledge of the Bible and mine to be monumentally huge. I'm probably the least Bible literate Christian on here.

 

[Hidden In Him]

OK. On here I've been called a heretic, a relativist, a backslider, even an anti-Christ on one occasion.

Ha! "Better Call the Antichrist," or BCtA for short. Sounds pretty intimidating to tell you the truth.

 

[Greg Merrill]

It depends what you mean by tough love. Some will say "tough love" requires hitting a child when they are naughty for instance. Others will mean, just having strict boundaries and rarely being flexible about moving those boundaries.
Tough love doesn't just apply to parenthood. It can apply to partners in relationships. Friends. Siblings. Colleagues at work. Being a boss at work. Being a pastor, priest even.
"Kindness" can be such a vague word. Am I really being kind to a friend I don't want to see anymore , by simply ignoring them? They'll get the message that I don't like their company without me saying anything?
You gotta be cruel to be kind? Is that right?
I think directness is good though sometimes. Better to know someone's boundaries clearly, even they might come across as borderline rude.
I'll think of more examples later.

I believe tough love can be used effectively for the right person, at the right time, in the right way, and for the right reason. Tough love is not hitting someone. Others things can be said as well to properly define what is a "good" tough love.

 

[Greg Merrill]

I think tough love is fine as long as you don't get arrested for it. Like Adrian Peterson.

Not addressing this to the poster, but the first thing that came to my mind (maybe we should think before posting the first thing, Pro 15:28) is that a lot of bad crimes are committed without anyone being arrested. That doesn't make them OK. I know that is not what the poster was thinking of. Just saying.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I think tough love is fine as long as you don't get arrested for it. Like Adrian Peterson.

Hey, I'mLike! Watcha doing dissin' AP? He's a New Orleans Saint now, so slow your roll!

Who Dat!

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Hey, I'mLike! Watcha doing dissin' AP? He's a New Orleans Saint now, so slow your roll!

Who Dat!

He can't catch though, and you guys pass a ton

 

[Hidden In Him]

He can't catch though, and you guys pass a ton

They're not gonna use him on every down, but now we're digressing too far from the OP, so just kidding. Thanks anyway. Maybe we'll talk some of this down the road:

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Can you give some examples of when Jesus used name-calling?

Okie dokie (oklahomian for fine okay here we go) >>

Jesus called various men individually or together in front of Him, including at times His Own Disciples, or at times society and /or mankind these names, perhaps to be clarified later if you can't find them in any regular Bible....

(1) Stupid
(2) Faithless (or weak faith) and
(3) Ye of little faith
(4) Naked
(5) Blind
(6) Wretched
(7) Sons of the devil
(8) Serpents
(9) Seven times the sons of the devil
(10) Hypocrites
(11) Whitewashed tombs
(12) Whitewashed sepulchers (maybe same as (11) )
(13) Sons of Thunder
(14) Children of Beelzebub (the devil again like (7) )
(15) Pervert(s)
(16) Idolator(s)
(17) That's enough for now, eh? Just from memory quickly recalled...

 

[Hidden In Him]

Jesus called various men individually or together in front of Him, including at times His Own Disciples, or at times society and/or mankind these names, perhaps to be clarified later if you can't find them in any regular Bible....

(1) Stupid

The rest of your list is solid, but what verse are you using for this first one? The following verses immediately came to my mind: Matthew 5:21-22.