What is the Mark of the Beast ?

[3 Resurrections]

LOL. If you allow for at least one exception, then there can be more than just one.

Not if scripture doesn't give us any more than the one man Enoch being translated. We can't go any further than scripture gives us leave.

I showed where Paul gave the order of resurrections unto bodily immortality and he taught that Christ's was first and next in order are those who belong to Him at His second coming (1 Cor 15:20-23).

That is NOT just "First". Christ was the "First-fruits". That is an Israelite agricultural term in scripture for a harvest, and it wasn't just a single stalk of grain. "First-fruits" is also the same term applied to the 144,000 who stood WITH the Lamb on Mount Zion together. These were "redeemed from the earth" in a bodily resurrection out of the grave that had rendered them sinless and "without fault". Those 144,000 were the Matt. 27:52-53 saints raised the same day as Christ.

If Lazarus or those referenced in Matt 27:52-53 or anyone else who was resurrected in the past was resurrected unto bodily immortality then I'm sure Paul would have referenced that in 1 Cor 15:20-23, but he didn't.

Who are we to dictate how Paul should have written his letters to the church? You seem to think that if Paul didn't specifically say the words "Matthew 27:52-53 saints" that this discounts their experience of being resurrected to an immortal and incorruptible body. Paul did refer to these who had already been resurrected. He spoke of them in 1 Thess. 4 as the "alive" and "remaining" ones who would be caught up together with the other newly-resurrected saints to meet the Lord in the air. These were individuals who had already been made "alive"by the bodily-resurrection process, but who had "remained" on the earth until then.

Paul also taught about those "multitude of captives" which the ascending Christ led out of the grave and gave as "gifts to men" in Ephesians 4:8-12. These resurrected "gifts" served as apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers to edify the members of the early church, to perfect them for the work of the ministry. That was the Matt. 27:52-53 resurrected saints who were charged with those tasks. Theirs was a unique experience (shown by their being the only ones who could "learn that song" which the harpers harped in Rev. 14). These 144,000 First-fruits Matt. 27:52-53 saints were "sealed" in Rev. 7, showing that no harm would come to them while they waited for their eventual transport to heaven in the 1 Thess. 4 "rapture" later on.

No, they were not. You are blatantly contradicting what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 which is that Christ was the first to be raised to bodily immortality and next in order are those who belong to Christ.

You are misquoting Paul. Paul did NOT say that Christ was the first to be raised to bodily immortality. Those are your words. Paul wrote that Christ was the "First-fruits", and this was a harvest of multiple individuals, not just a single person.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Not if scripture doesn't give us any more than the one man Enoch being translated. We can't go any further than scripture gives us leave.

That is NOT just "First". Christ was the "First-fruits". That is an Israelite agricultural term in scripture for a harvest, and it wasn't just a single stalk of grain. "First-fruits" is also the same term applied to the 144,000 who stood WITH the Lamb on Mount Zion together. These were "redeemed from the earth" in a bodily resurrection out of the grave that had rendered them sinless and "without fault". Those 144,000 were the Matt. 27:52-53 saints raised the same day as Christ.

Who are we to dictate how Paul should have written his letters to the church? You seem to think that if Paul didn't specifically say the words "Matthew 27:52-53 saints" that this discounts their experience of being resurrected to an immortal and incorruptible body. Paul did refer to these who had already been resurrected. He spoke of them in 1 Thess. 4 as the "alive" and "remaining" ones who would be caught up together with the other newly-resurrected saints to meet the Lord in the air. These were individuals who had already been made "alive"by the bodily-resurrection process, but who had "remained" on the earth until then.

Paul also taught about those "multitude of captives" which the ascending Christ led out of the grave and gave as "gifts to men" in Ephesians 4:8-12. These resurrected "gifts" served as apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers to edify the members of the early church, to perfect them for the work of the ministry. That was the Matt. 27:52-53 resurrected saints who were charged with those tasks. Theirs was a unique experience (shown by their being the only ones who could "learn that song" which the harpers harped in Rev. 14). These 144,000 First-fruits Matt. 27:52-53 saints were "sealed" in Rev. 7, showing that no harm would come to them while they waited for their eventual transport to heaven in the 1 Thess. 4 "rapture" later on.

You are misquoting Paul. Paul did NOT say that Christ was the first to be raised to bodily immortality. Those are your words. Paul wrote that Christ was the "First-fruits", and this was a harvest of multiple individuals, not just a single person.

LOL. We're having the same argument on 2 different forums. I'm not going to continue that, as it's a waste of time. We can continue on the other forum where I already addressed your misinterpretation of 1 Cor 15:20-23.

 

[3 Resurrections]

LOL. We're having the same argument on 2 different forums. I'm not going to continue that, as it's a waste of time. We can continue on the other forum where I already addressed your misinterpretation of 1 Cor 15:20-23.

Sure, I don't mind flipping the discussion over to there. But It is you who is making the misinterpretation of 1 Cor. 15:20-23 when the word is actually "First-fruits" PLURAL. And you can't arbitrarily change it to "First-fruit", because that isn't what scripture says either.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Sure, I don't mind flipping the discussion over to there. But It is you who is making the misinterpretation of 1 Cor. 15:20-23 when the word is actually "First-fruits" PLURAL. And you can't arbitrarily change it to "First-fruit", because that isn't what scripture says either.

I'm changing NOTHING! Don't lie about me.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Who did Paul say is risen from the dead? Christ. Who had "become the firstfruits of them that slept? Christ. So, you were saying? Don't get tripped up by the word firstfruits there. No matter what you try to say, Paul was only talking about Christ having risen from the dead and only talking about Christ becoming the firstfruits of them that slept. It does NOT say that "them that slept" had become the firstfruits as you apparently imagine, it says Christ Himself had become the firstfruits...of them that slept.

I am not trying to change it from firstfruits to firstfruit. I am simply saying it would've been better to translate it as "firstfruit" instead of "firstfruits" in order to avoid confusion. It certainly has made you confused. The Greek word (you know it was originally written in Greek and not English, right?) can mean either firstfruit or firstfruits. It's clearly referring only to Christ as being the firstfruits, so why they translated it as firstfruits instead of firstfruit is anyone's guess. Maybe it's because His resurrection unto bodily immortality made the way for the resurrection unto bodily immortality of all those who belong to Him at His second coming, so the word is plural in the sense of what His resurrection made possible for all of those who belong to Him.

For what it's worth, the translators of the World English Bible translated the verse like this:

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead. He became the first fruit of those who are asleep.

And here is the Disciples Literal New Testament translation of the verse:

1 Cor 15:20 But now, Christ has been raised from the dead— the firstfruit of the ones having fallen-asleep.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Who did Paul say is risen from the dead? Christ. Who had "become the firstfruits of them that slept? Christ. So, you were saying?

You are still failing to address why the 144,000 were also referred to as "the First-fruits unto God and unto the Lamb". This wasn't just a "KIND of First-fruits", as in James 1:18, but the 144,000 resurrected Jewish tribal members actually WERE the "First-fruits" as well as "Christ the First-fruits".

This "First-fruits" term for the 144,000 in Rev. 14:4 was in reference to "the First-fruits of your harvest" in Leviticus 23:10-12, which was the offering of the sheaf handful of first-ripened barley, waved by the priest in the temple before the Lord during Passover week. This sheaf handful of "First-fruits" of the barley harvest was offered on the same day as a single He lamb without blemish in Leviticus 23:10-12. This "First-fruits" ritual in Leviticus 23 provided a symbolic picture of the "harvested" Matthew 27:52-53 saints, which the newly-risen "Christ the First-fruits" led out of the grave on that same day of His own resurrection.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You are still failing to address why the 144,000 were also referred to as "the First-fruits unto God and unto the Lamb". This wasn't just a "KIND of First-fruits", as in James 1:18, but the 144,000 resurrected Jewish tribal members actually WERE the "First-fruits" as well as "Christ the First-fruits".

I did address it. The kind of firstfruits they are is different than the kind of firstfruit(s) that Jesus is. Jesus is the firstfruits in the sense of being the first to rise from the dead unto bodily immortality. Without His resurrection unto bodily immortality first, the resurrection of the dead in Christ unto bodily immortality in the future would not be possible. In the case of those referenced in James 1:18, they were the firstfruits in the sense of being the first people to accept the gospel and become Christians.

This "First-fruits" term for the 144,000 in Rev. 14:4 was in reference to "the First-fruits of your harvest" in Leviticus 23:10-12, which was the offering of the sheaf handful of first-ripened barley, waved by the priest in the temple before the Lord during Passover week. This sheaf handful of "First-fruits" of the barley harvest was offered on the same day as a single He lamb without blemish in Leviticus 23:10-12. This "First-fruits" ritual in Leviticus 23 provided a symbolic picture of the "harvested" Matthew 27:52-53 saints, which the newly-risen "Christ the First-fruits" led out of the grave on that same day of His own resurrection.

This is total nonsense. The New Testament has a lot to say about the resurrection of the dead and it NEVER references Leviticus 23 the way you do. Paul knew what he was talking about. He gave the order of resurrections unto bodily immortality and he said Christ's was first and next in order are those who belong to Christ at His second coming.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Jesus is the firstfruits in the sense of being the first to rise from the dead unto bodily immortality.

This is your own definition. It is not the definition of "First-fruits" as stated in scripture.

Without His resurrection unto bodily immortality first, the resurrection of the dead in Christ unto bodily immortality in the future would not be possible.

It took more than just Christ's crucifixion and resurrection to make that possible for us. It took His ascending to the Father that day and "offering Himself without spot to God" and having that sacrifice accepted by God. On that resurrection morning, God anointed the ascended Christ as our official representative "Great High Priest", which then made our own bodily resurrection to immortality possible. As I wrote before, our entire salvation inheritance is not completed until our glorified, resurrected bodies are standing before the presence of His glory in heaven, with a restored face-to-face fellowship with our Creator.

This is total nonsense. The New Testament has a lot to say about the resurrection of the dead and it NEVER references Leviticus 23 the way you do

No, it is NOT nonsense. Christ is called "our Passover" for a reason (1 Cor. 5:7). Every single redemptive action that Christ performed on our behalf was pictured symbolically in the OT Mosaic rituals. Christ and the Matthew 27:52-53 saints were all raised from the dead on that same day during Passover week - the time of the "First-fruits" barley harvest - the first of three agricultural harvests in the Israelite year. This was not an accidental timing for all the "First-fruits" to be bodily "harvested" out of the grave.

 

[contratodo]

The mark is not something to do with Islam.
And the image is not a statue or that thing that Muslims bow down to.
But those kinds of ideas will lead the led along to "Jesus".

The mark is something such that no human can buy or sell without it.

Therefore there would have to be a way for a seller or buyer to know if a person has the mark or not,
and perhaps a way to do transactions with the mark.

Today we can clearly envision how this could happen.


The image itself will both speak and cause those who don't worship it to be killed.

Both speak and kill.

I can't even really write down the specifics of what I think it is, out of respect, and because it is very scary.
But the Bible says a lot about it, in very few divinely clever words.


I think the mark image and abomination are all connected, high technology,
the devil's offering of seeming everlasting life.

We are very close to the days of the mark and image of the beast,
as a snake they are being slithered into society.

 

[Douggg]

I did address it. The kind of firstfruits they are is different than the kind of firstfruit(s) that Jesus is. Jesus is the firstfruits in the sense of being the first to rise from the dead unto bodily immortality. Without His resurrection unto bodily immortality first, the resurrection of the dead in Christ unto bodily immortality in the future would not be possible. In the case of those referenced in James 1:18, they were the firstfruits in the sense of being the first people to accept the gospel and become Christians.

First fruits agriculturally means the first fruits of the growing season have the sweetest flavor.

Metaphorically, in the spiritual sense, first fruits refers to being the sweetest metaphorically..... i.e highly valued by God.

 

[Barraco]

The Mark of the Beast
And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark— the name of the beast or the number of its name. Here is a call for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and that number is 666.…

View attachment 350878

What is this Mark 666 the number of a man ?

Is it a chip ?
Is it a mobile phone ?
Is it a DNA change i.e the Blood ?

DNA is composed of 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons, which equates to 666.


Or is it something spiritual ?

Hi Apple Sky.

666, I believe, is a spiritual number. The only times it's been quoted in the Bible is in Ezra 2:13 and 2 Chronicles 9:13.

Ezra 2:13 notes that one of the people that came to rebuild the temple was named Adonikam and he had 666 sons. The name Adonikam means "the lord rises". This could possibly be related to Zechariah 11:16, where God tells the prophet that He will raise up a shepherd that will not care for the people but devour them. Daniel 12:1 shows the archangel Michael standing and what follows is the worst tribulation the Jews have ever been through.

2 Chronicles 9:13 shows the amount of talents that came in one year for King Solomon being 666 talents. King Solomon built his palace to shadow the house of the Lord. We know from 2 Thessalonians 2 that a lawless one will enter the temple and proclaim himself to be God. Revelation 13 and Daniel 7 show this person as speaking blasphemies against God and ruling for 3.5 years. Jesus warned His disciples in Matthew 24 that the first sign they should look out for are false messiahs proclaiming, "I am he."

Perhaps we can deduce from these two passages that the false messiah will be a ruler in Israel that is involved in the rebuilding of the temple. The unbelieving Jews will gladly follow him until he commits the abomination of desolation, thereby causing a civil war in Israel.

Looking forward to your response.

 

[alertandawake]

The mark is not something to do with Islam.
And the image is not a statue or that thing that Muslims bow down to.
But those kinds of ideas will lead the led along to "Jesus".

The mark is something such that no human can buy or sell without it.

Therefore there would have to be a way for a seller or buyer to know if a person has the mark or not,
and perhaps a way to do transactions with the mark.

Today we can clearly envision how this could happen.


The image itself will both speak and cause those who don't worship it to be killed.

Both speak and kill.

I can't even really write down the specifics of what I think it is, out of respect, and because it is very scary.
But the Bible says a lot about it, in very few divinely clever words.


I think the mark image and abomination are all connected, high technology,
the devil's offering of seeming everlasting life.

We are very close to the days of the mark and image of the beast,
as a snake they are being slithered into society.

contratodo

You have made a very good point with this comment especially "Therefore there would have to be a way for a seller or buyer to know if a person has the mark or not, and perhaps a way to do transactions with the mark"

This "mark" has a function, or perhaps multiple functions and is all connected. With all the advancements and evolutions of certain technologies, there are many who feel that the mark of the beast, it is connected with Digital ID and Digital Currency.

Like it or not people, this "mark" is something of a physical nature, and all the evidence indicate that something has to be placed inside of us and at same time give off some kind of signal or confirmation code, like with 2fa or mfa. But I believe it is very strongly connected to this concept here - Zero Trust security.

So look at the buying and selling aspect as some kind of network, a secure network where all users have to be authenticated, authorized, and continuously validated. So to put another way, without the "mark" we won't be granted access to the network concerned.

 

[RandyPNW]

Yes, you are probably right. AI technology and security technology would accomplish the same thing in the modern world as took place in the time of Daniel, when Nebuchadnezzar required everyone to worship his image.

Signing into the Beast Empire by swearing allegiance to what he stands for can simply be a choice to join his "super company" with all of its "products." The technology is already here, and just needs greater development.

The former Christian World has now turned pagan, and it's just a matter of time before Christianity is treated as a "foreign object" in the body, to be expelled like a virus. That's when this technology can be used to treat the "Christian virus."

Here in the US I'm already seeing some elements of this played out in the current election cycle. Conservatives and Christians have been labeled as "dangerous to democracy." And technology on a grand scale has been used to censure any complaints.

The Legacy Media is in full "attack mode" with respect to the Republican Party, which in my opinion is still defending Christian causes. My opinion....

 

[Hazelelponi]

The Mark of the Beast
And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark— the name of the beast or the number of its name. Here is a call for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and that number is 666.…

View attachment 350878

What is this Mark 666 the number of a man ?

Is it a chip ?
Is it a mobile phone ?
Is it a DNA change i.e the Blood ?

DNA is composed of 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons, which equates to 666.


Or is it something spiritual ?

The beast is itself representative of man as a government/governing body politic with world-wide reach influence. It's a system completely opposed to God and His system and law.

The mark can be either spiritual or physical, it's anything that can be used showing you to be "in" the society or "out", some type of allegiance to the system.

Take woke cancel culture for example. Speak the truth about any of their sacred cows and your socially "out", you can lose your job, your educational opportunities and more. You effectively become a second class citizen.

Acquiescing to such social pressure is bad.

Could this become something like the Chinese social credit score etc. Absolutely.

Could it become something more physical? Yes... But it does not have to be. It just has to be symbolic of being in.

As children of God we just can't compromise God's law and our values with the world system. If that puts us "out", then so be it.

 

[Tigger Boy]

This "mark" has a function, or perhaps multiple functions and is all connected. With all the advancements and evolutions of certain technologies, there are many who feel that the mark of the beast, it is connected with Digital ID and Digital Currency.

alertandawake, when I hear comments similar to yours, it tells me that individuals assume the world will economy will be up and running much like it is today, when the "mark" is enforced. Prophecy makes it clear that will not be the case. I have posted a OP, titled, "To Understand the "Mark" One Must First Understand The Trumpet Judgements". I would encourage you to consider it. Just click on the search icon in the left end of the blue bar above, and type in the title of my post.

 

[alertandawake]

alertandawake, when I hear comments similar to yours, it tells me that individuals assume the world will economy will be up and running much like it is today, when the "mark" is enforced. Prophecy makes it clear that will not be the case. I have posted a OP, titled, "To Understand the "Mark" One Must First Understand The Trumpet Judgements". I would encourage you to consider it. Just click on the search icon in the left end of the blue bar above, and type in the title of my post.

The description given in the verses concerned in Revelation, makes it clear that those without the "mark" will not be part of society. And this shows parallels to the coming Digital ID/Digital Currency society that many have valid concerns about (these two go together, two sides of the same coin imo).

I cannot comment for all places, but I know where I live, if people want to sell something they own to a 2nd hand shop, they would need to provide some form of "acceptable ID". Now in saying this, sometimes when people order something and they want to "click and collect" they would have to show some ID and if payment was made card, they probably have to show the card used.

There is also something called "Legal Identity". For those interested, google it. It is a interesting read.

See another problem I see, some people seem to think a person is going to be "forced" (held down against their will). What some don't release is that we can be looking at a situation where people will be "indirectly forced" to comply.

From a practical and functional point of view, I see the mark of the beast being the only acceptable form of ID (with something foreign inside of us) but at the same time, based on this concept - Zero Trust security.

 

[Douggg]

There is an important attachment to the mark of the beast.

It is the mark of his name. From Revelation 14:11 .....11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

So to buy or sell, the requirement will be to show, one of these three...

1. his name
2. the number of his name
3. the mark of his name

...in the right hand, or in the forehead.

Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that the mark will have some sort of design to it. And not a chip nor a digital currency. But something that can be enforced when electricity is not always available like during the 42 months of the beast when the trumpet judgments and the vials of God's wrath are taking place on earth

 

[alertandawake]

I think that the mark will have some sort of design to it. And not a chip nor a digital currency. But something that can be enforced when electricity is not always available like during the 42 months of the beast when the trumpet judgments and the vials of God's wrath are taking place on earth

It could be something that gets injected inside of us and something that becomes permanently attached to us, and permanently connects us to some kind of network.

It is worth considering the possibility the reference to "right hand" concerning the mark of the beast could be a reference to right-handed dna?

 

[Tigger Boy]

The description given in the verses concerned in Revelation, makes it clear that those without the "mark" will not be part of society. And this shows parallels to the coming Digital ID/Digital Currency society that many have valid concerns about (these two go together, two sides of the same coin imo).

I cannot comment for all places, but I know where I live, if people want to sell something they own to a 2nd hand shop, they would need to provide some form of "acceptable ID". Now in saying this, sometimes when people order something and they want to "click and collect" they would have to show some ID and if payment was made card, they probably have to show the card used.

There is also something called "Legal Identity". For those interested, google it. It is a interesting read.

See another problem I see, some people seem to think a person is going to be "forced" (held down against their will). What some don't release is that we can be looking at a situation where people will be "indirectly forced" to comply.

From a practical and functional point of view, I see the mark of the beast being the only acceptable form of ID (with something foreign inside of us) but at the same time, based on this concept - Zero Trust security.

 

[Tigger Boy]

I assume you did not read my OP post. Consider this, thousands of individuals live in costal areas, enjoying all the conveniences of transportation, electrical power, natural gas, water and sever, and local grocery stores. However, if a category 4 or 5 hurricane makes landfall over the overlying area, and takes out all of the above services enjoyed by the community for generations in the past, would your concept of the mark be operational?

This is why the trumpet judgements must be understood, through these judgements God is going to put the world on notice that the end has arrived, by putting the whole world into survival mode, destruction that exceed my hurricane example. Prophecy clearly reveals one forth of the worlds population will perish during the first four trumpet judgements.
Are you mentally prepared for this?

At the time the mark is set up staples like food will be scarce. Individuals will be required to receive the mark (666) on (not in) their right hand, or the name of the beast(Satan) in their forehead. (most likely the mark will be a tattoo because it is easy to implement, not electricity needed, can't be stolen or lost, and is permanent, easily read by sight) Those not having it are killed.
Those choosing to take it are going against God's warning given by the third angle of (Rev. 14:9,10)

If you should be alive when the mark is set up, would you take the number 666 on your right hand, thinking it is not the mark, even though prophecy makes it crystal clear that it is?

 

[eclipsenow]

This is why the trumpet judgements must be understood, through these judgements God is going to put the world on notice that the end has arrived, by putting the whole world into survival mode, destruction that exceed my hurricane example. Prophecy clearly reveals one forth of the worlds population will perish during the first four trumpet judgements.
Are you mentally prepared for this?

First - Jesus didn't know when the Last Day would be. (Matthew 24).

Second - the "These things" of the Olivett Discourse were answering the question of when the temple would be destroyed. That temple! If we read our history, there really were many earthquakes and persecutions and false messiahs - some of which caused the Roman judgement of Israel and destruction of the temple.

Third - I have a lot of sympathy for caring about increasing natural disasters. Every degree of climate change means the earth's atmosphere can carry 7% more water. It also adds more energy to the atmosphere which increases some wind speeds which moves weather patterns. This means the atmosphere is much wetter than it was in decades past - but many weather systems are missing their normal targets. It means both increased droughts and dumping deluges as all that extra water comes down in new places. It means famine, floods, and other natural disasters.

We only have 200 GT carbon budget left. We only have 5 years. We emit 40 GT per year. We ARE going over the 1.5 limit.
Buckle up! We're GOING over! Johan Rockström said so.

He's the expert from David Attenborough's "Breaking Boundaries" series, and also writes for “Earth 4 All” - an emergency policy foundation offshoot of the Club of Rome. BUT it’s not the end of civilisation. It’s going to hurt. Johan said that we'll look back at 2023 and 2024 as moderate years. Yet even Johan has hope. There are a whole variety of technologies and cultural changes coming together now that can pull us back from the brink.

As an Amil I think the Lord could return in 5 seconds and save us from all this - or maybe - under his grace and desire to see many more people come into his Kingdom - wait another 50,000 years! So my question to you? Are you mentally prepared for an increase in natural disasters but NO mark of the beast and other Revelation sounding stuff? That is - are you ready for an increase in the disasters that might sound like they're out of Revelation - but actually have a predictable scientific cause - but without your timetable playing out?

Because every futurist timetable that was ever predicted has failed. Apart from the general gospel promise that one day the Lord will judge all the "Babylons" of this world - Revelation is not a future timetable but a sermon to suffering Christians in John's generation.