What do you know about the Mennonites?

[JohnB445]

What are they allowed to have? I know they don't have as much restrictions as the Amish. Mennonites do drive cars, but I don't know if all agree with it.

And if they do drive a car, it isn't suppose to be fancy, or in a bright color like pink or blue.

 

[Diamond72]

What are they allowed to have? I know they don't have as much restrictions as the Amish.

I worked with them for 20 years. I sold to them in a flee market. Each individual church decides what their restrictions are. It is very common that the Amish do not drive. They often rely on non-Amish drivers to take them where they need to go. These drivers are sometimes referred to as "Amish taxis".

Transportation is expensive for them but they have a lot of money. Do not even think about trying to bid against them in an auction. If someone can get their hands on a buggy you can be sure no one in the community wants it. We are blessed with a lot of Amish food here and it is wonderful. Even companies like Smuckers is in Amish country.

Amish young people go through a period called Rumspringa, which usually begins around the ages of 16. During Rumspringa, they are given more freedom to explore the outside world, experience modern culture, and make decisions about their future. They can decide if they want to leave the community or not. Which means to change churches. For some this is difficult. For others they go wild with cell phones drinking and drugs. They will find a barn somewhere but there are also Amish youth that avoid all of that debackery.

There are young amish girls that cook food and sell produce. They do not talk much though to non amish. My friend hired amish people to build him a shed. They brought in a crew of people in a small bus.

 

[The Liturgist]

What are they allowed to have? I know they don't have as much restrictions as the Amish. Mennonites do drive cars, but I don't know if all agree with it.

And if they do drive a car, it isn't suppose to be fancy, or in a bright color like pink or blue.

There are Old Order Mennonites who are just as strict as the Amish. Other Mennonites are less strict, some even being theologically liberal, basically mainline Protestants. But of those who adhere to an intermediate level of severity, some have odd conventions, such as the “Black Bumper Mennonites” who in the days when cars had chrome bumpers, were required to paint those bumpers over with black paint, as well as any other visible chrome on the car, in order to avoid the appearance of flashiness.

I would be interested to know what models they were actually driving, however, since some of the most practical cars from that era, like the Willys Jeep and the Checker utility sedan, mainly used as a taxicab, but also for airport shuttles and even for private use, were also deeply unappealing in other respects. And still other very reliable cars like some of the German cars were relatively flashy, and Volvos, while being of more modest aesthetics, might perhaps have seemed uncomfortably exotic.

 

[Diamond72]

I would be interested to know what models they were actually driving,

So if they do not paint their bumper does that mean they are not saved?

 

[The Liturgist]

View attachment 357890
So if they do not paint their bumper does that mean they are not saved?

I was more interested in what they were driving back when cars had chrome bumpers. Also, that ugly coupe in the foreground has a gold stripe - I am surprised they allow that.

 

[Diamond72]

I am surprised they allow that.

Plain clothed people do not impress me because of things like that. But mostly how does painting your bumper cause you to be closer to God?

 

[The Liturgist]

Plain clothed people do not impress me because of things like that. But mostly how does painting your bumper cause you to be closer to God?

Exactly. Why indeed?

I’m Orthodox Christian, baptized in the United Methodist Church in the 1970s, and formerly with the UCC in a quixotic attempt to assist the confessional movement now known as “Faithful and Welcoming” which has sadly failed to address the problems with that denomination, since the best course of action for traditional Congregationalists is to leave and join the CCCC. I also spent a year in the Episcopal church because my friend, who was one of the last conservative vicars in the Diocese of Los Angeles, was retiring, and I wanted to attend his church during that time, which was also very convenient to my house, and then when he retired the persecution of the Orthodox made the next steps obvious, although I have connections with the Continuing Anglican movement and liturgical Methodists and Congregationalists and also to the LCMS and LCC, both through my friends here and my attendance in my youth of an LCMS parochial school.

So that’s basically as far removed from Mennonite theology as you can get. I also disagree with the Peace Church idea, since St. Athanasius and other church fathers regarded military service as honorable.

And if there is one church father who I regard as especially important to Christianity, it is St. Athanasius, because of his defense of the doctrines of the Incarnation and the Holy Trinity against Arius and his 39th Paschal Encyclical, which introduced the 27 book New Testament canon we use, which was the perfect balance between the more restrictive canons we see in the original East Syriac Peshitta, which lacked Revelation, 2 Peter, 2 John, 3 John and Jude and in Martin Luther’s proposed removal of Jude, James, Hebrews and Revelation, which fortunately he did not do, but he did put them in the back of his Bible as a semi-deuterocanonical “antilegomenna”, and more expansive canons that had been proposed in the fourth century which would have included Patristic writings such as the Shepherd of Hermas, 1 Clement and an early book of church order like the Didache or Didascalia (these are good books, but they are Patristic rather than Apostolic) and which would very likely have included some psuedepigrapha such as “1 Barnabas” or 3 Corinthians (which appeared in an early Armenian Bible) or Laodiceans - 1 Barnabas is potentially doctrinally problematic, whereas Laodiceans seemingly goes out of its way to not contradict other Pauline epistles and is widely regarded as a pious forgery, and the same seemed to be true of 3 Corinthians.

At any rate, the Orthodox try to avoid making a public spectacle of our religious devotion, for example, by refusing to use some modern technologies and by wearing old-fashioned clothing and making our cars look peculiar. We have other ways of seeking closeness to God, such as the Jesus Prayer, Hesychasm, praying the Psalms and partaking frequently of the Eucharist.

 

[Diamond72]

baptized in the United Methodist Church

My wife is a Methodist and when they had the convention in our city we helped to sponsor the representatives sent to the convention. There were picketers and protesters outside of the convention wanting to influence the representatives to change the policy of the church. At the time the protesters failed to win the vote but there must have been a lot of fense sitters who were willing go along with the liberal agenda. But it could be that they do not represent the people they are there to represent. A lot of people think that the new policy does not represent the belief of most methodists.

The Episcopal church I was a member of before I got married decided to leave and start up their own denomination. I am not active there, so I am not up on the latest developments. Of course as you know anglo churches are not Protestant and we all use a book of common prayer.

 

[ViaCrucis]

What are they allowed to have? I know they don't have as much restrictions as the Amish. Mennonites do drive cars, but I don't know if all agree with it.

And if they do drive a car, it isn't suppose to be fancy, or in a bright color like pink or blue.

Different Mennonite communities have different rules. Some are pretty strict, others aren't all that different than "regular" people.

The Amish are themselves a splinter group from the Mennonites. The Mennonites have their origins with Menno Simons. Simons was a Dutch (Frisian specifically) Catholic priest who came to reject Catholic teaching on a number of issues, most significantly with the practice of baptizing infants. As such Simons was one of the early leaders of what would be called the Anabaptists, but this is a broad term that describes a lot of very different sects and movements that emerged as part of the Radical Reformation in the 16th century. The Radical Reformation is in contrast to the Magisterial Reformation (e.g. Luther and Calvin), as well as the English Reformation under King Henry VIII. Simons and his Anabaptist movement rejected violence and allegiance to princely powers, and viewing baptism of infants as being tied strongly to the state rather than as being about devotion to Jesus Christ opposed infant baptism and began teaching and preaching the baptism of adults. As such they conducted re-baptisms, for which the term Anabaptist (Re-baptizer) is so-called.

The Mennonites believed in a strong separation of the spiritual and the temporal, they rejected violence and participation in the military, rejected the swearing of oathes, and practiced a "Believer's only" baptism.

In time the Mennonites split into different groups, including new sects like the Amish splintering off from them.

Anabaptist groups faced persecution from both Catholic and Protestant nobility, and as such, like many minority religious groups, ended up seeking religious freedom in the Americas. Which accounts for the presence of both Mennonite and Amish communities in the US and Canada. Though there do remain Mennonite communities in Europe still.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JohnB445]

Different Mennonite communities have different rules. Some are pretty strict, others aren't all that different than "regular" people.

The Amish are themselves a splinter group from the Mennonites. The Mennonites have their origins with Menno Simons. Simons was a Dutch (Frisian specifically) Catholic priest who came to reject Catholic teaching on a number of issues, most significantly with the practice of baptizing infants. As such Simons was one of the early leaders of what would be called the Anabaptists, but this is a broad term that describes a lot of very different sects and movements that emerged as part of the Radical Reformation in the 16th century. The Radical Reformation is in contrast to the Magisterial Reformation (e.g. Luther and Calvin), as well as the English Reformation under King Henry VIII. Simons and his Anabaptist movement rejected violence and allegiance to princely powers, and viewing baptism of infants as being tied strongly to the state rather than as being about devotion to Jesus Christ opposed infant baptism and began teaching and preaching the baptism of adults. As such they conducted re-baptisms, for which the term Anabaptist (Re-baptizer) is so-called.

The Mennonites believed in a strong separation of the spiritual and the temporal, they rejected violence and participation in the military, rejected the swearing of oathes, and practiced a "Believer's only" baptism.

In time the Mennonites split into different groups, including new sects like the Amish splintering off from them.

Anabaptist groups faced persecution from both Catholic and Protestant nobility, and as such, like many minority religious groups, ended up seeking religious freedom in the Americas. Which accounts for the presence of both Mennonite and Amish communities in the US and Canada. Though there do remain Mennonite communities in Europe still.

-CryptoLutheran

Different Mennonite communities have different rules. Some are pretty strict, others aren't all that different than "regular" people.

The Amish are themselves a splinter group from the Mennonites. The Mennonites have their origins with Menno Simons. Simons was a Dutch (Frisian specifically) Catholic priest who came to reject Catholic teaching on a number of issues, most significantly with the practice of baptizing infants. As such Simons was one of the early leaders of what would be called the Anabaptists, but this is a broad term that describes a lot of very different sects and movements that emerged as part of the Radical Reformation in the 16th century. The Radical Reformation is in contrast to the Magisterial Reformation (e.g. Luther and Calvin), as well as the English Reformation under King Henry VIII. Simons and his Anabaptist movement rejected violence and allegiance to princely powers, and viewing baptism of infants as being tied strongly to the state rather than as being about devotion to Jesus Christ opposed infant baptism and began teaching and preaching the baptism of adults. As such they conducted re-baptisms, for which the term Anabaptist (Re-baptizer) is so-called.

The Mennonites believed in a strong separation of the spiritual and the temporal, they rejected violence and participation in the military, rejected the swearing of oathes, and practiced a "Believer's only" baptism.

In time the Mennonites split into different groups, including new sects like the Amish splintering off from them.

Anabaptist groups faced persecution from both Catholic and Protestant nobility, and as such, like many minority religious groups, ended up seeking religious freedom in the Americas. Which accounts for the presence of both Mennonite and Amish communities in the US and Canada. Though there do remain Mennonite communities in Europe still.

-CryptoLutheran

Thank you, and all other posters. this is very informative.

 

[Diamond72]

As such Simons was one of the early leaders of what would be called the Anabaptists, but this is a broad term that describes a lot of very different sects and movements that emerged as part of the Radical Reformation in the 16th century.

They are not that religious today. For good reason, because they quit going to school in the eighth grade. Although there are Mennonite churches that are open to everyone. In the same way that some are more conservative than others.

A friend of mine told me he had a really good team of horses that worked really good together. Someone offered him a lot of money and he sold them thinking he could train another team. That could be why he opted for a less strict life.

The guy who owned the market had to leave the church he was in because they did not approve of him owning that big of a business. Even though a lot of the food venders were old order. They love to buy stuff used and even pay more for it used then what it cost new.

 

[RileyG]

@The Liturgist What about the Hutterites? I know there are some colonies in North Dakota and South Dakota.

They are anabaptist, and are VERY similar to the Amish, but they are smaller in number (around 50,000 and declining).

 

[RileyG]

Mennonites are part of the Anabaptist tradition.

Amish split from the Mennonites and are basically insular. There is also Old Order Mennonite, and the Hutterites.

I'm not sure about the theological differences between them.

Many modern Mennonites dress very conservatively, but have phones, electricity, and drive cars.

Some other Anabaptist denominations are more liberal and have no creed, and even ordain women!

Hope this helps?

 

[Diamond72]

more expansive canons

Solomon wrote 1,000 books. Only three of them are in the Bible and Song of Songs almost did not make it.

For a long time, the Bible was oral tradition going back to Abraham and Adam. So many people are involved and, amazingly, God can keep his word pure and true.

Jeremiah 1:12 (NIV):​

"The Lord said to me, 'You have seen correctly, for I am watching to see that my word is fulfilled.'"

• This verse emphasizes that God is vigilant in ensuring His word is carried out.

Isaiah 55:11 (NIV):​

"So is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it."

 

[RileyG]

Solomon wrote 1,000 books. Only three of them are in the Bible and Song of Songs almost did not make it.

For a long time, the Bible was oral tradition going back to Abraham and Adam. So many people are involved and, amazingly, God can keep his word pure and true.

Jeremiah 1:12 (NIV):​

"The Lord said to me, 'You have seen correctly, for I am watching to see that my word is fulfilled.'"

• This verse emphasizes that God is vigilant in ensuring His word is carried out.

Isaiah 55:11 (NIV):​

"So is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it."

Solomon wrote 1,000 books?

Where do you get your information?

 

[Diamond72]

Solomon wrote 1,000 books?

Where do you get your information?

I can not find the title of it now but the library had a book with all 1,000 of solomons books in it. One current collection on Amazon has 462 pages.

Books of Solomon​

Kelly, Edmund​

 

[RileyG]

I can not find the title of it now but the library had a book with all 1,000 of solomons books in it. One current collection on Amazon has 462 pages.

Books of Solomon​

Kelly, Edmund​

Ah, thanks for clarifying.

 

[Diamond72]

Ah, thanks for clarifying.

In Proverbs 31 1 These are the words of King Lemuel—the burden that his mother taught him:

Solomon had banquets for all the kings and wise men.
They would try to impress each other with their wisdom.

King Solomon is often depicted as a figure of immense wisdom and wealth, and his court attracted many dignitaries and wise men from various lands. One notable example is the visit of the Queen of Sheba, described in 1 Kings 10 and 2 Chronicles 9. She came to test Solomon with hard questions, and was impressed by his wisdom and the splendor of his kingdom.

These gatherings were more than just displays of wealth and wisdom; they were opportunities for exchanging ideas, fostering diplomatic relationships, and showcasing the blessings and wisdom that Solomon attributed to his relationship with God.

Such stories highlight the importance of wisdom, not just for personal enlightenment, but for leadership and the well-being of a nation.