What are your thoughts on cooking on Sabbath?

[Sylvester]

It's a practical problem because when a new member joins the church, one group tells them not cooking is part of Sabbath keeping while the other group say you can cook on Sabbath. And that usually creates a little... friction. That's the only reason why I feel it's something I need to talk about.

Ideally I should be able to discuss this at church with the other members. But it seems like a pretty bad idea to discuss this at the SDA churches I've been/go to cause people from both camps usually end up arguing big if the topic pops up. I've observed that people drift apart if they argue hard like that. I don't know what's the point in going to church if there's no fellowship and only groupism. So I keep quiet at church even if such a topic pops up.

I thought perhaps this is a safer place to talk about it since there's a mod and rude comments will be removed. How I wish we could have a mod in church!

So then, if you cook on Sabbath, why? If you don't, why not? (I don't cook on Sabbath. I think it's something I should mention up front.)

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Happy Sabbath Sylvester! Great question... it has been discussed in our small group a number of times over the years and not everybody is on the same page. At least we're in the same book and usually the same chapter.

When I look at restrictions given for the Sabbath, I try and understand them from God's perspective as to why He doesn't want us to engage in certain activities on His day.

We know that God doesn't restrict us from eating on the Sabbath.. He could have told us that the Sabbath was for a fast but He didn't. So this leaves eating leftovers or cooking from fresh. In the Biblical days even up until 100 years ago, cooking anything was not a small chore. In this context then, I understand that God didn't want us to consume that much time away from contemplation of Him. Remember Mary and Martha? God would rather us be at the feet of Jesus than preparing foods for the family.

We are not given any specifics on this next point but thankfully we have the pen of inspiration to help us... that is about reheating food already prepared. Sister White does tell us that God does not expect us to eat cold food on Sabbath.... we want to make a Sabbath a delight, not a drudgery. We are told to prepare something that everyone enjoys as a special Sabbath only meal to further this delight of Sabbath for us. So, in this context of reheating food for consumption, we know that the pioneers didn't pop their meals in a box and 1 minute later it came out hot like we do. They would have to start a fire (if one wasn't already going in the stove) and place the food in to be reheated. Now this is similar to us reheating in the microwave, it would just take them a bit longer. We can do the same with heating our foods in the oven as well.

Then the question of what foods are prudent to have ready for Sabbath. Some foods can be prepared ahead of time and reheated with no issue... others cannot. I will use the example of what I had for breakfast today. Usually, I will have some toast with pb&j. Can't toast it the day before, it has to be done fresh but only takes a few minutes. This morning a scrambled 3 eggs in the microwave which took me a total of 3 minutes. Bowl gets soaked and put into the dishwasher... done.

So the bottom line for me (and understand, I differ slightly from some in my group) is that taking a few minutes to prepare/reheat food for myself and my wife is not an offense to God. That is my current understanding at the moment but is always subject to further understanding and conviction.

I find this thread interesting in that there are a couple of discussions going on in the forum dealing with the need to be a part of a physical church or not. Your testimony of certain things not being able to be discussed with your 'church' brethren a good example why the physical church is all that's needed for the Christian can be spiritually stifling, and the blessing of forums such as this play in these last days. I say this for those that are spiritually mature and feeding on meat, as a babe in Christ would not be safe coming into a forum like this with so many dissenting theories of Bible truth.

I hope this helps in some small way.... God bless.

 

[Ubuntu]

2000 years ago (or during the 1800’s), cooking dinner was hard work. You had to have firewood available, you had to fetch water, and the the act of cooking a meal took much time, because you had to make everything from the ground up.

God obviously don’t want us to spend hours sweating over saucepans on the Sabbath. But as @EastCoastRemnant pointed out, in spite of this Ellen White recommended that we’d have warm and nice meals on the Sabbath. Preferably something really delicious and special, something we don’t have every day.

And here is the thing, today it would often take us less time to cook a simple dinner, than the time Ellen White would have to spend reheating food that had been prepared the day before…

Today we have microwaves, canned food, ready-made meals, refrigerators, frozen foods, and foods that can easily can be prepared in a minimum of time. So I guess what it boils down to is avoiding either extreme. If you want to prepare your differ the day before the Sabbath, then you’re free to do this, but today this is less necessary than it was in the 1800’s. I don’t think it would be wrong to prepare a simple (yet delicious) meal on the Sabbath if it didn’t require too much effort on our part.

The principle here is that we shouldn’t toil on the kitchen during the Sabbath, but at the same time things have changed for the better. We live in a different age. For instance, the kids would love having vegetarian burgers & buns, salad, etc, and this is food that we buy ready-made in the grocery store. Heating and preparing it requires practically no effort on our part.

 

[Sylvester]

Thank you, both of you! Obviously I was looking for the point of view of those who cooked on Sabbath. So it's great that you both articulated your points well and also in good spirit. This is the first time I've heard of 3 minute cooking. Indian here and we make complicated dishes! It takes me 10 minutes even to cook noodles without any veggies. I need to up my game apparently. Lol But anyway, you two have made some good points. I'll think over them. I'll also discuss them with the people close to me who don't cook on Sabbath. Then I'll reply here. It's about time I had a good, non-confrontational discussion like this! Happy Sabbath =)

 

[Ubuntu]

@Sylvester, this is probably not a black/white kind of issue... If cooking food is something that takes relatively long time, then yeah, perhaps it's a good idea to try to prepare some food in advance instead...

 

[Dave-W]

To lend another viewpoint - traditional Jews from eastern and central Europe in the 18th and 19th centuries mostly lived in small villages called shtettles. There would be a kosher baker in each village, and they would not let the hearth grow cold.

There is a specific command to not kindle a fire on the Sabbath:

Exodus 35:3 Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.

However, there is no prohibition against cooking or on keeping an existing fire going. So the bakers would routinely load up the fire with wood Friday afternoon and then shut the air openings so it would burn very slowly. On Sabbath morning, the baker would open his doors and the village folk would bring in their prepared meals to be placed on the hearth to be slow cooked during morning prayers. By the time that was done - about 3 hours later - their dinner would be nice and hot. The meals were all prepared on Friday afternoon, along with the kabbalat shabbat dinner. [welcoming the sabbath]

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

To lend another viewpoint - traditional Jews from eastern and central Europe in the 18th and 19th centuries mostly lived in small villages called shtettles. There would be a kosher baker in each village, and they would not let the hearth grow cold.

There is a specific command to not kindle a fire on the Sabbath:

Exodus 35:3 Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.

However, there is no prohibition against cooking or on keeping an existing fire going. So the bakers would routinely load up the fire with wood Friday afternoon and then shut the air openings so it would burn very slowly. On Sabbath morning, the baker would open his doors and the village folk would bring in their prepared meals to be placed on the hearth to be slow cooked during morning prayers. By the time that was done - about 3 hours later - their dinner would be nice and hot. The meals were all prepared on Friday afternoon, along with the kabbalat shabbat dinner. [welcoming the sabbath]

I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that certain instructions for the Israelites were about the principle and not so much detail specific... let me explain. While kindling a fire on Sabbath was forbidden in the desert wilderness, I believe the principle was not to do something unnecessary during Sabbath... remember, they had their manna to eat which was prepared the day before. I don't know if this same command would work where I'm from in the winter. When temps get to -40 during the night, I don't imagine the Lord would be upset if someone needed to kindle a fire if it had gone out during the night. Freezing to death is not God's principle of keeping the Sabbath.

Luckily for us today, reheating food takes less time and thought away from God than ever.

 

[Dave-W]

I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that certain instructions for the Israelites were about the principle and not so much detail specific... let me explain. While kindling a fire on Sabbath was forbidden in the desert wilderness, I believe the principle was not to do something unnecessary during Sabbath... remember, they had their manna to eat which was prepared the day before. I don't know if this same command would work where I'm from in the winter. When temps get to -40 during the night, I don't imagine the Lord would be upset if someone needed to kindle a fire if it had gone out during the night. Freezing to death is not God's principle of keeping the Sabbath.

Luckily for us today, reheating food takes less time and thought away from God than ever.

Ah - you are falling into the trap of western interpretation. It is not a question of "literal or allegorical/figurative" but fully both.

The command includes both not kindling a fire, AND not doing something to change creation.

All Semitic languages have multiple layers of meaning. Hebrew has 4 or 5. There are 4 levels to the actual text; and another layer in the pictograms of the Paleo-Hebrew alphabet.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Ah - you are falling into the trap of western interpretation. It is not a question of "literal or allegorical/figurative" but fully both.

The command includes both not kindling a fire, AND not doing something to change creation.

All Semitic languages have multiple layers of meaning. Hebrew has 4 or 5. There are 4 levels to the actual text; and another layer in the pictograms of the Paleo-Hebrew alphabet.

So do peoples living in frigid winter conditions not kindle a fire to stay alive because of the instruction given to the Israelites?

It's in the same dogmatic line of thinking that Adventists have about being vegetarian... how does that jive with those living in Alaska or the far north? Does God not have people living above a certain latitude because they can't eat a certain way? How do Sabbath keepers know the beginning and ending of the Holy day when there is no sun, or conversely, 24 hour sun. God says from sundown to sundown... how does that work at higher latitudes?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

That's why I think it's relational and about understanding God's character and His principles for right living, those pleasing to Him.

 

[Dave-W]

So do peoples living in frigid winter conditions not kindle a fire to stay alive because of the instruction given to the Israelites?

No they don't. They keep an already going fire fed.

How do Sabbath keepers know the beginning and ending of the Holy day when there is no sun, or conversely, 24 hour sun. God says from sundown to sundown... how does that work at higher latitudes?

Or on the Space Station when you have a sunrise and sunset every 2 or 3 hours. Not sure it has ever been properly addressed in Christian or Jewish circles. In Islam, they say to keep to the hours in Mecca if you live in the extreme high latitudes. (they have a Friday sabbath)

 

[Sylvester]

@Sylvester, this is probably not a black/white kind of issue... If cooking food is something that takes relatively long time, then yeah, perhaps it's a good idea to try to prepare some food in advance instead...

Well yes, that's true. I suppose people from both school of thought in this issue are guilty at times. One of my cousins used to bring some fruits and stuff for potluck and would cut the fruits, remove the peels, etc. In all, it would take about thirty minutes. After a couple of weeks she remarked how it's taking too much time even though she wasn't actually cooking anything. So she brought other food stuff after that which didn't require much preparation.

Sometimes we hold prayer meetings in church members' houses on Sabbath. There's often home cooked dinner. Everyone cooks together. Those who are fine with cooking on Sabbath often want us to start cooking long before the Sabbath ends (like one hour earlier) so that everything could be done on time. (The dishes we cook on those occasions usually take about one to one and a half hours.)

Incidents like that and the one that I mentioned in my first message are what that made me want to talk about it. Things are not so simple when we come together as a group, isn't it? But I believe we're true Christians only if we can love one another despite our differences.

 

[Sylvester]

This is to EastCoastRemnant and Ubuntu. Finally got around to giving a proper reply today. I was able to talk to one person about the issue. Obviously they haven't heard of 3 minute cooking before either. Haha. But it was a useful discussion. There are clearly a lot that needs to be understood. It's more evident when I come across how things are on the other side of the planet. It's not so black and white. I'll study the Bible regarding Sabbath with the things you two said. It's food for thought. What EGW said about heating food isn't surprising considering how cold it gets there. It does seem reasonable. You can't eat frozen food in a snowy place. I always have/do tell my mom not to heat food on Sabbath since it's contradictory to say no to cooking while saying heating food is fine. (Room temperature is 30 C where I live.) Do you think the Israelites would have heated their food? I'm pretty sure the Bible neither says they did or didn't. But have you thought about that? I'm just trying to get an idea of your view of things.

Lemme me just ask a few things to get an idea on where you stand on some things. Sorry, this is gonna sound like an interview but bear with me please! = P

What is your opinion on doing the following things on Sabbath:
1. Emergency work/regular work.
2. Taking an exam.
3. Watching TV/Sports
4. Talking about the above stuff.

I ask these questions cause I'm trying to compare your stand with the stand of some other Adventists that I know. =P Some people talk about how we should keep the Sabbath holy and all. They also mention how cooking is fine since it doesn't take much time. The regular Indian dishes take minimum 30 mins to cook mind you. Usually they take a solid one hour. So their point is that that time isn't much. They also say it's ok to go to work when there's an important meeting or something since it's like a ox in a ditch like the Bible says. Sometimes a little business calls is ok since it doesn't take away too much time from God. They also talk about how we suffer if we don't go to work at times. "Sabbath was made for man after all". I do see them work fairly regularly on Sabbaths though. They also watch sports and stuff on Sabbath and talk about it to me. They know I don't watch them on Sabbath. No idea why they do that. I think they just forget it in the moment. It's bit of an awkward moment when they do it. I just nod along with a smile and gently change the topic. The only thing they do differently compared to non-Adventists is that they go to church on Saturdays rather than Sundays. They do try to avoid work when possible though.

I'll also give a mini list of how I don't keep the Sabbath very well. I think that's needed too. Haha.

1. I often find myself glued to the laptop watching browsing reddit, watching funny cat gifs, etc on Friday evenings and nights. I don't spend enough time doing spiritual things. It has gotten better these days but I still end up wasting time like that.

2. When you brows the internet like that you're bound to come across jokes referring to movies or gifs of films. And it's the silliest thing to think it's ok to watch them on Sabbath as long as it's not a movie clip! I took me a while to sink it but these days I've accepted that it was a silly and I'm trying not to browse aimlessly on Sabbath or any other day.

3. I don't watch sports and I've finally managed to stop reading sports news on Sabbath. I find myself daydreaming of my favourite sport right in the middle on sermons though! =S

4. I lie in the bed lazily instead of pressing my clothes or washing the car on Friday evenings. Then I go about doing them at the last possible time. By then the Sabbath had already started.

I don't pretend to be a saint. As you can see, I do break the Sabbath often. if anything the way I break Sabbath is worse cause the root cause is laziness or an indisciplined mind. I do empathize with people who work on Sabbath for fear of going broke. I don't think I'm better than them in anyway. I don't really know what I'd do in their shoes.

The only problem is that when the Sabbath keeping topic pops up in church, those who are ok with doing such things (Here I mean Sabbath keeping in general. Like working on Sabbath.) naturally argue that it's totally fine. I do believe it negatively affects new members.

 

[Sylvester]

Ugh I type long replies.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Ugh I type long replies.

No worries brother, long posts give lots of info...

I'll just give a couple of thoughts for now as I'm at work and don't have time for the full meal deal...

First, don't compare yourself with anyone else... we are all on this road of Sanctification and what you may have been shown by the Spirit, another brother os sister may not have come to that place of understanding yet. God judges us on our willingness to obey what He has shown us... don't forget that. That said, you can't greive the Spirit when you have been enlightened on a subject either.

What is your opinion on doing the following things on Sabbath:
1. Emergency work/regular work.
2. Taking an exam.
3. Watching TV/Sports
4. Talking about the above stuff.

1. Taking care of emergencies is Biblically OK as you already referenced with the donkey in the ditch example. Regular work is not.... period. If something can be done outside of Sabbath time, then best to leave it till then.
2. In my opinion, this is for worldly pursuits and should be left for another time. If the test is only scheduled for Sabbath, pray about it and try to get it rescheduled. This is similar to working on Sabbath.... some people feel they must in order to survive, hut how much faith are they exercising? If you remain faithful to God in what He asks, He will bless you with a way to feed yourself and family... remember the passage of the birds of the air, how they do nothing for their food yet God supplies.
3. Watching TV is debatable to me as I can watch a Christian movie or a sermon on my TV... no it's not regular TV it is focusing my mind on Christ.... that should be our criteria when deciding what is acceptable on Sabbath... does it take my mind to Christ or away.
4. This ones tough as it's easy to get caught up in a conversation and it morph into something inappropriate. Listen for the leading of the Spirit to convict you of temptation when it comes... remember, temptation is not sin. Once brought to your mind by the Spirit and it continues, it is, and needs repenting of.

 

[Ubuntu]

@Sylvester

1. Work & the Sabbath: As a rule of thumb we shouldn’t work on the Sabbath, and the only exceptions I can think of are a) religious work (pastors work on the Sabbath, right?) and b) work that is done out of compassion. Jesus said that it’s permitted to do good on the Sabbath. (Matthew 12:12.)

Sick people need care on the Sabbath, a hospital cannot stop its operations on a Sabbath. Old and frail people need to be fed and clothed… Children in orphanages need to be looked after also on Sabbaths. In other words, there are certainly kinds of work that has to be done, even on a Sabbath. But then again, secular non-essential work should be left to another day.

2. Exams: I don’t think we should take exams on the Sabbath. Yes, it’s definitively a problem in some countries that exams are scheduled on the Sabbath. And yes, we might have to choose between serving God and serving the world in these cases. We’re supposed to be an example to unbelievers, and I think it’s important that we are faithful when it comes to keeping the Sabbath holy. If we are loyal, then in many cases God will cause the exams to be rescheduled to another day. But even if this doesn’t happen, we shouldn’t take exams on the Sabbath.

3. Media use and the Sabbath: I don’t use secular media on the Sabbath, this means no news or entertainment on the Sabbath. I do check out some religious websites (including this site), and I read religious books and magazines on the Sabbath. When it comes to television & sports as entertainment, I generally avoid these things at all times, not only during the Sabbath. And to address your example, I’d recommend to refrain from randomly browsing the internet on the Sabbath. These things aren’t spiritually edifying.

4. We should also watch our conversation on the seventh day. It’s possible to refrain from working, but have our minds completely filled with thoughts about our secular work. Resting on the Sabbath isn’t only a matter of outward compliance with the commandment, it’s also about resting in Christ, to be filled with his presence. So yes, I wouldn’t spend hours on the Sabbath discussing intricate details about my secular work, even if I technically wasn’t “working”.

 

[Ubuntu]

How do Sabbath keepers know the beginning and ending of the Holy day when there is no sun, or conversely, 24 hour sun. God says from sundown to sundown... how does that work at higher latitudes?

Or on the Space Station when you have a sunrise and sunset every 2 or 3 hours. Not sure it has ever been properly addressed in Christian or Jewish circles. In Islam, they say to keep to the hours in Mecca if you live in the extreme high latitudes. (they have a Friday sabbath)

This issue has actually been addressed by both adventists and Jews. In fact, Ellen White herself wrote about it:

"God rested on the seventh day, and set it apart for man to observe in honor of His creation of the heavens and the earth in six literal days. He blessed and sanctified and made holy the day of rest.

When men are so careful to search and dig to see in regard to the precise period of time, we are to say, God made His Sabbath for a round world; and when the seventh day comes to us in that round world, controlled by the sun that rules the day, it is the time in all countries and lands to observe the Sabbath. In the countries where there is no sunset for months, and again no sunrise for months, the period of time will be calculated by records kept."
{3SM 317.1}

 

[Sylvester]

@Ubuntu and @EastCoastRemnant,
Thanks a lot to you two! Both of your replies were quite in depth and useful. These are the type of discussions I love. We're pretty much on the same page in Sabbath keeping except perhaps the cooking part. I'll keep the things you said about cooking in mind. I'll continue to read the Bible and also discuss with others in the coming days. Hopefully I will be receptive to what the Holy Spirit tells me. I'll either continue in my position or change it depending on what I think the Holy Spirit tells me. Again, thanks for your good responses. I'll see you around here in the forums. Bye for now!

 

[Dave-W]

THis came in the mail Friday but by the time I read it it was too late to post.

It is a large warming tray that you can leave on to keep your Shabbat dinner warm.

http://www.artscroll.com/Books/890665024202.html