What are the wages of sin?

[Timothew]

What about 2 Corinthians 5 which clearly speaks of an afterlife in Heaven.

Could you please point out the verse in 2 Corinthians 5 which clearly speaks of an afterlife in heaven? I just read 2 Cor 5 and I didn't see any verse that said "we have an afterlife in Heaven."

My eyes are tired and I may have missed it.

 

[timbo3]

What about 2 Corinthians 5 which clearly speaks of an afterlife in Heaven.


The soul can be destroyed (Mat 10:28) but nowhere does the Bible speak of spirit being destroyed. It is spirit that is indestrucible, not soul.

Afterlife means "1. religion: life after death: a form of existence believed to continue after death ".(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) Thus, many believe that life continues on after death, that something is immortal, with some saying the soul and others say the spirit, but not sure what either means.

The soul is us as a person, with all our desires. The English word soul is from Hebrew ne´phesh, and literally means "breather".(Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, H5315, "properly, a breathing creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality") Thus, us a soul can and do die. Ezekiel 18:4 says: "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."(King James Bible)

Hence, the soul or us as a person dies because we are sinners or misses the mark of perfection according to Jehovah God's perfect standards. The English word sin is from the Hebrew chat·ta’th´ and literally means "miss", in the sense of missing or not reaching a goal, way, mark, or right point.

But what is the spirit that is mentioned over 800 times in the Bible ? The English word spirit comes from the Hebrew ru´ach and Greek pneu´ma and having the basic meaning of “breath” but have extended meanings beyond that basic sense. The word spirit can also mean wind; the vital force in living creatures; one’s spirit; spirit persons, including God and his angelic creatures; and God’s active force, or holy spirit. All these meanings have something in common: They all refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. Such invisible force is capable of producing visible effects.

At Psalms 146:3, 4, it says: "Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs. His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish." Why does a person go "back to the ground", with his thoughts perishing when a person's spirit leaves ? What happens when any electrical appliance looses electrical power ? It, in effect, dies, and unless electrical power is restored to it, it remains dead.

Psalms 104:29 says: "If you (God) conceal your face, they get disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they expire, And back to their dust they go." Upon a person's spirit or life force leaving us as a soul or "breather", we die (and stop breathing), just as an appliance when the power is shut off. On the other hand, "If you (God) send forth your spirit, they are created; And you make the face of the ground new."(Ps 104:30)

Thus, our spirit or life force that animates us as a person, if it leaves, we "expire" or die, but Jehovah God can restore a person's "spirit" so that they are "created" or come back to life, as if giving them a fresh start in life.

Only when Jehovah God restores our life force or spirit when resurrecting us, if we should die, can we hope to live again. Ecclesiastes 12:7 says as a result of aging and death ensuing: "Then the dust (what we are made of, Gen 3:19) returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit itself returns to the [true] God who gave it." Our future life depends entirely upon our Creator, Jehovah God, for him to restore our life force or spirit so that we can live again. It is like turning on the power to an appliance so that it now works.

At 2 Corinthians 5, the apostle Paul does not speak of an "afterlife", but of a change from an earthly body upon death to a spiritual body, like the angels, for he says: "For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, should be dissolved, we are to have a building from God, a house not made with hands, everlasting in the heavens."(2 Cor 5:1) He further says that "in fact, we who are in this tent (or fleshly body) groan, being weighed down; because we want, not to put it off, but to put on the other, that what is mortal (or fleshly body) may be swallowed up by life."(2 Cor 5:4)

As a result, those who are resurrected to heavenly life as "kings and priests" of God's kingdom (Rev 5:9, 10) because of being selected as such by Jehovah God (2 Thess 2:13), become "a new creation".(2 Cor 5:17)

These have been "changed (upon death to a spirit "son of God"), in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet" (1 Cor 15:51, 52) so that they have "put on immortality" (1 Cor 15:53) and therefore "death is swallowed up forever" for them.(1 Cor 15:54)

 

[WillieH]

You should be careful not to allow your selfish spiritual pride to get the better of you. Your post indicates to me that your heart is full of selfish pride and vainglory, otherwise you would not be seeking to prove others wrong or debate with them for your own enjoyment.

I am a minister (and have been for over 35 years) called of YHVH God (whether you like it or not)... called to preach His TRUTH. That you do not agree with me is fine... but this foolish, religious and juvenile retort serves no one and NOTHING (except yourSELF)... rather instead changess the issue to a "YOU and me" thing and not about HIM... by sidestepping the addressing of what I said in my post.

As a matter of FACT and for the RECORD, ...I certainly DO love to teach and preach on His behalf. And it is not up to YOU to decide what I enjoy anyway. However, when I write, it is with concern for ALL those who might read my words (not just you)!


Hey...

Your answer had NOTHING to do with "the WAGES of SIN"... which is ALL (FORMS of) DEATH !!

It (your answer) is filled with your lack of understanding of said topic, that is seen lashing out at someone (me) who does have understanding of it (via extensive and lengthy study of it)...

As well due to that LACK, your own "ego" is demeaned, and thereby is focused on presenting a BATTLE between you and I, ...instead of addressing the TOPIC and (if you had any "understanding of it"), pointing out to me where I might be in need of "correction" concerning it.


(1) it was not ME, which named others as candidates for "ETERNAL DEATH"... it were YOU, bro, and,

(2) this STRAWMAN attempt to AVOID answering questions only shows that you do not have the answers to them... and,

(3) I did not say you were "wrong" about anything, and I challenge you to go to my profile, review my postings and EVER find me noting another as "WRONG"... I believe that we are either VEILED or REVEALED concerning the TRUTH on any SPIRITUAL matter... thus far, you appear VEILED, as you are without answer concerning your assertion that there is, "ETERNAL DEATH"... and,

(4) concerning "DEBATE", the definitions of DEBATE and DISCUSSION are one and the same, as both these terms are used to describe the other (look in ANY Dictionary). In that, I hate to inform you, but this IS a DEBATE/DISCUSSION. If you are unable to participate effectively (due to a lack of devoted and detailed study), then just keep quiet and let others do so... and,

(5) there is no "vainglory" in my post toward you, to which you made NO REPLY. It is likely the vanity of your ORTHODOX teachings, that are in such a category (vainglory), as when TRUTH is presented you with SCRIPTURAL basis, you VAINLY ignore it.

God hates pride. God especially hates spiritual pride. I hope that someday (obviously, you have not done so yet) you will realize the damage that your pride does to your spirit, and how truly disfigured your relationship with God will be until you allow Him to banish it from you by embracing the Cross.

You know nothing of ME... I have studied, prayed and embraced the CROSS for over 35 years... In your attempt to sidestep discussion, you utilize NAMECALLING. Which is nothing but the erection of IDOLS you worship in IGNORANCE, in the stead of STUDYING to SHOW YOURSELF APPROVED -- Acts 17:10-11 -- 1 Tim 2:15 -- Better get on the stick bro, for GOD "hates" IDOL worship.

As far as my "HEART" goes... it is not up to YOU to JUDGE it -- Matt 7:1 -- I used NINE (9) Scriptures in my reply (which is evidence of the WORSHIP of those Scriptures), and you used... ah, let me see, ...NONE in your reply to me. Get a clue.

Everything that you do or say or think that appeals to your ego and causes you to be satisfied with yourSELF is not from God, but from the flesh.

Could your reply be any weaker than it is?

I gave you EXTENSIVE and DETAILED information (Scriptures) which MAKE SENSE and CONTAIN REASON-- Isaiah 1:18 -- and which serve as the FOUNDATION upon which I stand... which IS that CHRIST was VICTORIOUS over ALL SIN -- John 1:29 -- 1 Cor 15:54-55 -- not just "yours"...

You, on the other hand, choose to NAME-CALL (blabbing about ego, vainglory, the flesh, pride, etc) in the stead of standing upon them in reply...

The Pharisees did the same... thinking UNSPIRITUALLY, to NAME-CALL, and MOCK CHRIST, then boot Him out of their presence with the CROSS of death, utilizing the POWER of their CARNAL RELIGION to do so...

When it comes down to it, ...you differ VERY little from them... ...only being the member of another ERA as you (as did they) STAND upon RELIGION, instead of the HOLY TEXTS of YHVH God...

This reply of yours was weak, and without substance, as it is a WITNESS of its CARNALITY, ...containing YOUR WORDS ONLY... and NONE of YHVH.

It is in your best interests to get into your own study of the WORD, in the stead of swinging (as you have attempted to do in your answer) ...the WEAK and sorrowfully RELIGIOUS, ..."BAT of CARNALITY" at me, bro!

Despite your negativities, I forgive you, and wish you:

PEACE


...willieH

 

[RETS]

After some pretty serious study on this topic, I return now all the more convinced of my original position.

Rather than just speak about it, though, I've decided to just type up the study, both for my own benefit and that of others. Perhaps with it, people will be able to understand my stance better, even if they still do not agree.

 

[x141]

It is not possible to measure darkness with darkness as it is not possible by thought to add anything to your stature. If you justify yourself you fulfill the judgment of the wicked. If you say I see your sin remains.

If you do not percieve that you are snared by the words of your mouth how will you understand the wage's of sin.

 

[Timothew]

I still think that the bible says that the wages of sin is death, not eternal torture in hell. But that may be just me.