What are the views on universal health care in the US

[CalmRon]

I'm not so well versed on what the issues are in the public health issue in america. maybe someone will bring in the christian perspective on this? God Bless.

 

[ziggy29]

I don't believe there is one "Christian perspective" on the public health issue. I would go so far as to say that Christians typically believe in following Jesus with respect to supporting good works that feed the hungry, heal the sick, clothe the naked and house the homeless. These are, after all, many of the things that Christ urges of us in order to properly follow God through Him.

You will see a much greater break in consensus, however, when it comes to whether or not these aspects of Christian grace and charity should be imposed through the government or strictly through the good will and charity of those people giving freely of themselves (individually and through the Church). This is true not only of health care but of all other public policy issues which are intended to aid the disadvantaged.

In other words, Christians will typically agree that it's a righteous gesture to aid the less fortunate in society. They can and do disagree on the proper role of government in these things.

And not wanting to get bogged down into politics, I'll leave it at that.

 

[CalmRon]

thanks for that,it would make sense that most christians see it as their christian duty to help others, but my thoughts are that it is a tall order for christians to take on themselves. my belief that government in essence should do all it can for its citizens- but like you said its all too mired in politics for any constructive debate to come.

 

[J Rock]

"Give unto Caesar" We Americans have the freedom to vote and we have the responsibility to live with the results of that vote. Right or wrong, good or bad we are subjects of our political system.

We Christian do seem to agree that something needs to be done but we disagree with the HOW to do that something. Sort of like worship music.

 

[J Rock]

My answer: YES. Jesus would want a more JUST government but I will not be holding my breath. His form of government is a Theocracy not a Democracy but what form have our churches formed as? So if the church were to develop its own "alternative" method it would a) function as just another democratic system and b) not be able to afford it anyway.

 

[heron]

I don't believe there is one "Christian perspective" on the public health issue.

The principle is there, but it doesn't look like it plays out so ideally. The money is simply not there to do all the wonderful things they speak of. It appears that the reshuffling is a way of hiding weaknesses in the system and generating more money.

The US already had systems in place to take care of the uninsured. Some were provided through the states. Not all worked ideally, but the solutions could have been carried out much more simply by increasing clinics.

Many Christians believe this is being enacted for the purpose of establishing a stronger identification system. Read the bill, and you will find this written clearly in, along with more provisions that appear very similar to the mark warned about in Revelations.

All health records will be networked, and accessible to the government. According to the bill, it appears our records will also be accessible to the identification device companies. Maybe I read into this wrong. Most people I know (Christian or not) do not believe it safe to share records outside their doctor's office or hospital.

Every time a change is made in any organization, it burns loads of time and money. Imagine how complicated it will be when people already overloaded with work will need to change their approaches, billing structures, limits on care, letterheads, etc. Everything health care facilities do will be impacted.

I have only had one year of my adult life where my employer covered part my health care. It just takes a phone call for the uninsured to be insured. People who cannot afford it go to emergency rooms, clinics, or use government-sponsored assistance programs.

The main thing I saw as needing change was minor illnesses taken to emergency rooms -- that can be resolved with clinics, visiting nurses, or other formats of care. And pharmaceutical companies have become influential giants... this was brought up in campaign speeches but ignored in the bill.

 

[heron]

US Government Printing Office - FDsys - More Information

 

[DoctorJosh]

I'm not so well versed on what the issues are in the public health issue in america. maybe someone will bring in the christian perspective on this? God Bless.

The health care plan is unconstitutional so I wouldn't worry about it so much. Some States have passed legislation that prevents any Federal Law with the health care plan to be imposed upon the people of those States since the Federal Government cannot force anyone to buy any product or service. So, there are also many lawsuits up against the health care plan as well. I know I cannot afford it and I am not going to buy it and I am glad I live in a State that has passed a law that prevents the Federal Government from trying to force me to buy it. And on top of that many States have receded from the Federal Government under the Constitution article 11, which means if the Federal Government tries to use force to make any State to follow its Laws that State can separate from the Union. So, make sure your State is protecting its people and if not, ask why and ask you want to have your Freedoms protected under the Constitution. Write to your Congressmen and Senator. Our State voted against the Health Care plan and stands by our Freedoms. To make the people buy anything from the Government and depend on the Government for such is socialism, we are not a socialist country, but a democracy and I Thank the Lord I am lucky enough to live here. The Bible speaks of Freedom and that is what you want, Freedom. Otherwise the leaders who can will put a leash around our necks and try to control our lives. Otherwise the Government will decide who lives and who dies, who gets care and who doesn't to save money, who gets money and who doesn't and that is what God warns us about. Because once they get control, they will take control of religion as well.

 

[Johnnz]

From a country that has had state funded health care for more than a century, like most other Western democracies, the debate in the USA is all rather bewildering. Ask the poor what access they have to quality, prompt health care. Then look at the biblical exhortations to remember such people. In the NT there is a judgement upon nations within this context:

Matt 25:31-46

31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
NIV

That is not a simple injunction for individual action. It is people as nations who are collectively judged.

John
NZ

 

[DougyP]

I think it is great that the House and Senate are passing legislation that will help all Americans who can't afford health care.

But in doing so, they have made it so that none can afford health care. It is going to bankrupt this nation. It is unsustainable.
Healthcare will not be willy nilly when ever you want it. It will be rationed and the governent will decide what is best for you. The governent will decide when old people die and when it become too expensive to keep you alive.

It happens in Europe and Japan. America will be no different.

 

[jacks]

We should do all we can to support those in need. Whether with our charitable donations or through our governmental programs.

 

[JanniGirl]

The Universal Healthcare that they are trying to inact will run Hospitals, Physicians, and Clinics out of business.

For the states that refuse to comply with the mandated insurance as dictated by the feds (whereby every citizen is required to buy health insurance) will bankrupt the hospitals and physicians in that state. How? Because CMS (centers for medicaid and medicare) have already adjusted their payments based on the fact that more people would be insured. This means that when they used to take into account that a hospital or provider would have to write-off a certain amount of their business to bad debt (non-insured), they no longer do that. So instead of getting $20 for a service, the hospital/provider will now get $17 (as an example). In states where there will remain a large number of ininsured (usually non-paying) patients, the hospital/provider will make less on those who do have government sponsored insurance. Right now, the margins on healthcare are so tight for hospitals, I suspect that in the coming years we'll see more and more hospitals closing their doors.

 

[simon reyburn]

i personally belive that health care is a part of the social justics that the bible talks about... as in helping the poor. i think it allso makes sence that a government would want to help people keep healthy so they can work and make money to keep the country going (if that knida makes sence). as for if it works... well look it up compered to the world the US has a really bad health care system. and france and other countires like that have better health care when you look at the stats.

 

[GordonUSC]

i personally belive that health care is a part of the social justics that the bible talks about... as in helping the poor. i think it allso makes sence that a government would want to help people keep healthy so they can work and make money to keep the country going (if that knida makes sence). as for if it works... well look it up compered to the world the US has a really bad health care system. and france and other countires like that have better health care when you look at the stats.

I assume you are referring to the World Health Organization rankings here. They do indeed put America's health care provision in the low 30's and only two better then Cuba. However, the methodology used by the WHO is that almost half of its measurements are indicators of equality in health-care provision. Meaning that a country in which everyone receives very similar but below average coverage would rank similar to a country in which people generally receive above average coverage but there are significant disparities in the quality of coverage people can obtain. Hence the reason why the U.S. and Cuba are so close.

The other aspect of the health stats involve America lagging behind European states on certain key statistics, mainly infant mortality rates and life expectancy. However, a very significant part of the disparity is arguably due to the massive differences in diversity and immigration dynamics between the U.S. and Western Europe. The infant mortality rates also have a bit to due with the fact that American hospitals are generally better able to make credible attempts at keeping premature birth infants alive.

That being said, France does have really good health care provision using a hybrid system that tries to combine the use of government authority and private choice in order to try and streamline and equal out coverage while at the same time trying to mitigate some of the worst abuses that naturally occur when using government authority to coerce market choices.Though it pays through the nose for it.

The U.S. healthcare system is very inefficient for a variety of reasons, most of which have to do with decades old policy decisions that have become too established to easily change. However, I remain very skeptical that introducing a huge dose of political and bureaucratic decision-making into the system and removing even more individual freedom is the proper way to reform the system.

 

[Johnnz]

However, I remain very skeptical that introducing a huge dose of political and bureaucratic decision-making into the system and removing even more individual freedom is the proper way to reform the system.

People with little money have few real choices that pretty much overrides such an individual's right to chose. That's what state funded healthcare is all about in western democracies.

John
NZ

 

[covefromoz]

My friend has cancer and tested positive for HIV and has no health insurance so it took forever for him to get any kind of treatment whatsoever. He had to apply for different programmes that took forever for him to qualify for, so for almost 6 months his body just deteriorated until he was almost hospitalized...which is when they FINALLY decided to give him some treatment.

I'm not saying every situation is going to be like this, and now that he has treatment he is getting much healthier, along with the fact that a corporation heard about him and is paying for his chemo treatment for the next year...so it isn't that people don't help or anything but six months???? He could have died!!

I think the issue is what it always is here in America...money. People are greedy and don't want to spend THEIR money to make sure their fellow human being is taken care of. I heard about this guy in France who had a cancer and they treated it and asked him how much time he would need in order to recover and get back to work. So he suggested three months, and the government covered his medical expenses, while his job paid him a stipend so he could pay his bills for three months. Afterward he was fine and came back to work.

That's just unheard of here in America, and it shouldn't be. I think it's our duty as Christians to really take care of the sick and elderly by supporting Universal Health Care here in America.

 

[Marootsoobutsu]

I heard about this guy in France who had a cancer and they treated it and asked him how much time he would need in order to recover and get back to work. So he suggested three months, and the government covered his medical expenses, while his job paid him a stipend so he could pay his bills for three months. Afterward he was fine and came back to work.

That's just unheard of here in America, and it shouldn't be. I think it's our duty as Christians to really take care of the sick and elderly by supporting Universal Health Care here in America.

Except... it's not unheard of in America. It happens every day through thousands upon thousands of churches. When my wife (at 28!) had strokes, multiple heart tumors, and other health problems, "our" church (we'd been there less than a month, as we had recently moved), immediately chipped in. They helped with bills, provided meals, and help with housework. At my church growing up, that was simply the expectation: it didn't matter whether the person went to church there, or not. If they asked for help, or if someone in the congregation asked for help on their behalf, it was given. There is a level of generosity in the USA that is unparalleled in the rest of the world, though that was not always the case. As more and more social welfare drifted to the governments of Europe, individuals and churches have given less and less; it's documented frequently. The problem in America isn't that the help isn't there... it's that people think that churches won't help them, or it's that people don't want to ask others for help but rather think it should simply be forthcoming. "Ask, and you will receive." But first, you have to ask. I bristle when someone demands; I am generous when someone asks. The distinction is what drives many in the US. We will gladly give; we will resist fervently what we see as theft.

 

[heron]

Except... it's not unheard of in America.

Some American states offer complete or affordable health insurance for low income families, and full coverage for children (as low as subsidized $10 monthly for adults, compared to a hundred times that, unsubsidized).

There are also Medicare and Medicaid; health clinics (including clinics that give AIDs patients free medication); school nurses; volunteers and informal situations like above; mandatory treatment of anyone who comes to emergency rooms (even for a cold).

Some people use chiropracters and herbalists to solve issues, and these providers tend to charge less.

I think this diversity of options is what the government is worried about -- it would be simpler for them if everything were consolidated.

When statistics are presented to compare health systems, they are bound to contain bias, because every country operates differently. What are the number of healthy elderly? What is the average age of death from natural causes? What is the infant mortality rate?

Many people already pay their own health insurance, and good percentage of employers only pay half. Some people who do not have coverage do this by choice, and then complain (although it is very expensive to pay it yourself, and companies also have a difficult time justifying the benefits).

My point is that the complete picture is not given, when people write these articles about the need for reform. The US is painted as a country that does not take care of its people, when in reality, many options are already in place to maintain people's health.