What and how is really Theosis?

[Ayenew]

Recently I have learned in theological classes that Theosis is in our doctrine (I am from Oriental Orthodox family). But I found many of the things in Theosis difficult to take. I even doubt many in our church know it and/or accept it. My question is: Is really Theosis what the universal church has believed for centuries? Is it an official doctrine in OO churches? And even, is there a well defined theology for Theosis?

 

[com7fy8]

Well, while I am looking up what theosis can mean . . . you might share here what you mean. Because what you mean could be different than what others claim it means. And I for one would like to answer to what you are personally concerned about, using scripture hopefully

 

[faroukfarouk]

Well, while I am looking up what theosis can mean . . . you might share here what you mean. Because what you mean could be different than what others claim it means. And I for one would like to answer to what you are personally concerned about, using scripture hopefully

A new word to me...

 

[Ayenew]

Well, while I am looking up what theosis can mean . . . you might share here what you mean. Because what you mean could be different than what others claim it means. And I for one would like to answer to what you are personally concerned about, using scripture hopefully

Shortly, the hardest thing for me to take is: How can we be deified, while divinity is only for God? I even heard that it is similar with Panentheism (Divinity in creatures, although I even don't know what Panentheism really is )

 

[com7fy8]

A new word to me...

It seems new to my spell check

How can we be deified, while divinity is only for God?

Basically, God shares His nature with us. Below I offer more detail and with scripture. But the simplicity is God's grace in us favors how Jesus is, by changing us to be and to love like Jesus. And Ephesians 5:2 confirms how Jesus is our example, required of us.

Now a longer explanation >

I just looked up how theosis is represented in a number of websites. The common meaning seems to be something like >

becoming in union with God . . . by being changed to be like God.

It is not only an Eastern Orthodox thing. Of course, how different people and groups represent it could be different. But there appear to be Episcopal people, too, who are into what they consider to be theosis.

I, of course, do not personally know these people so I can know if they believe in this as only a doctrinal teaching, or if they actually are being changed to become like God. Plus, if they consider themselves to be . . . theosized . . . how are they going about this? And is it really changing them to be more like Jesus?

About becoming in union with God > God's word says >

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

So, being in union with God is a Bible basic > this is in God's word; so this is not some later thing which started with some group's church fathers or some group which named itself even over a century after Christ started the church.

I personally understand that if a person is "one spirit with" Jesus, then how Jesus is will win out in the union, so the person becomes like Jesus. Because Jesus is almighty, and His grace is almighty to effect our nature so we become "partakers of the divine nature", as 2 Peter 1:4 says > Peter says, here, that we have been given >

"exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these we may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (in 2 Peter 1:2-4)

So, God's promises in His word are meant to bring us to share in God's own nature. This is in God's word. This is included in the basic meaning of God's promises, I would say we could rightly say, then.

Therefore, in my opinion, no distinct self-naming group is the only one into this. This is basic Bible, for all who have trusted in Jesus.

So . . . going with the Bible, I consider how Peter says a Christian has "escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." And now someone is sharing with Jesus in His nature. And how does God do this, please?

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

So, yes God's word says we in Jesus have become "as He is" "in this world."

Not in some later life . . . but . . . now . . . "in this world" we have been perfected in God's love, this scripture says. Our Apostle John, here, says "we in this world" are "as He is". John does not say, only certain hierarchical superiors or specially chosen saints, but "we" have been perfected in God's own love; John our so great Apostle says "we", and in this letter he says we are "children of God" (1 John 3:1) and he addresses us as "My little children" (1 John 2:1) and then brings us on to how we have been perfected in God's love so that "we" are "as He is" "in this world." So, John includes us children of God as "we" with him > again > 1 John 4:17.

So, how does this work? What I get from the Bible is that we can see that a person escapes from "the corruption that is in the world through lust," as 1 Peter 1:4 indicates. And this involves how our Father changes someone to be like His love, instead of how we have been while we could keep giving in to various lusts.

So . . . there is, I would say, being cured by God's love effecting our character. And yes every child of God has God's own love in our hearts >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, "in our hearts" . . . I understand . . . God's own love indeed is living and changing our real deep character to become like how God's own love is.

So, I would say > this is basic in God's word, but also in the actual personal experience of every child of God. You a child of God, then, can tell me from your actual experience what God's love is like, because of how this love has changed you to become like this . . . right?

For one thing > from the Bible and our experience, we know God is quiet . . . not silent. And in His love we have His "gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (in 1 Peter 3:4) So, in this love in the Holy Spirit, we experience God being quiet and gentle in us, in our emotions, in our feelings, in our thinking and talking and relating with one another > "without complaining and disputing" > another Bible basic > in Philippians 2:13-16.

As you can see, we are going on and on with more and more scripture about this. I have only gotten started, with no quoting from anyone after our Canon Scripture writers. This is all Bible basic.

And in case you have trusted in Jesus, but you find yourself to be lacking in this > feed on Hebrews 12:4-14 > about how God our Heavenly Father does the correcting which brings this perfecting in His love. And keep trusting Him Because He loves us, and therefore His grace favors us with such correction, in our character . . . not us merely struggling to make ourselves do things, but we are snuggling in His love.

 

[com7fy8]

Shortly, the hardest thing for me to take is: How can we be deified, while divinity is only for God? I even heard that it is similar with Panentheism (Divinity in creatures, although I even don't know what Panentheism really is )

In Post #5 above, I offer a short answer about what theosis is in Christianity. And then I offer a long explanation.

But it is possible for there to be what is not a Christian version of theosis. On the Net I found one definition which seemed to say it can mean becoming like a pagan god.

And, of course, for anything which is Biblical, we can see people claiming what is not by God's word. And so Biblical theosis can get a bad name, because of how people either misrepresent or counterfeit or do totally other than what is God's way of theosis.

So . . . if ones have told you theosis means Panentheism, this is giving you a very limited representation, I would say The word has "Pan" in it, with means "all". And "en" means in or into, I would say. And "theism" might mean to get the divine into something or someone. So, if I put all three together, I get that someone means getting the divine into all things . . . and this could be related to pantheism which can mean all things are God.

So, I would say Biblical theosis would not be the same as panentheism > because Biblical theosis means how only certain people go through the process of becoming sharing with God in His divine nature . . . while not all humans and definitely not all material things are going through this process.

In any case, in Biblical theosis we do not get ourselves and discipline our own selves to will this >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

It is certainly God's pleasure, by the way, to change us so we are and love like Jesus; the Bible clearly says God is committed to doing this with every one of us. So, if you pray for this, you can be sure what God's answer is!

 

[Ayenew]

It seems new to my spell check

Basically, God shares His nature with us. Below I offer more detail and with scripture.

Anything out of His divinity, I accept. His divinity, how?

becoming in union with God . . . by being changed to be like God.

I have no problem with this. And it is a direct message from the Bible for us to be 'like God'. But, I think Theosis is beyond this, to be deified (i.e. in my understanding to be gods, not the image of (like) God).

Of course, how different people and groups represent it could be different.

That is what makes it hard to understand.

 

[Amittai]

"Orthodox Wiki" contrasts it with apotheosis which only God attains.

It is described as a strong or near-ideal form of sanctification. I was once told by a lecturer, that Teresa of Avila calls this her "fourth mansion". Some of the Holy Spirit filled types here at CF have mentioned that sort of state, as a thing we ought to have in mind.

We shall certainly need this and it will come through increased levels of belief. IMO Jesus will ask us, did you give your brothers belief?

 

[Ayenew]

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

It is certainly God's pleasure, by the way, to change us so we are and love like Jesus; the Bible clearly says God is committed to doing this with every one of us. So, if you pray for this, you can be sure what God's answer is!

Do you mean if we ask God of divinity, he will give us (Sorry if I misunderstood you). Is this not the first sin of man, when he accepted Satan's words "you will be like God."?

 

[com7fy8]

But, I think Theosis is beyond this, to be deified (i.e. in my understanding to be gods, not the image of (like) God).

I would say a same word can have different definitions.

Plus, people of different groups can have ideas with their own fingerprints.

We can adopt a word, for the meaning we use it for. For example, "love" has this world's meaning. But now that we know God's word, we can use "love" to have a better meaning.

I just rechecked the Net. It seems generally that people consider it can mean one or the other > becoming a deity or becoming like God or some deity.

 

[com7fy8]

Do you mean if we ask God of divinity, he will give us (Sorry if I misunderstood you). Is this not the first sin of man, when he accepted Satan's words "you will be like God."?

We need to pray not for what Satan meant, but for what God's word means. What God means is not at all like what Satan meant.

Notice how Satan merely brought out how God knows things, and how one can become like God by knowing things. This is extremely a limited way to try to become like God > and it indeed is trying . . . not at all succeeding.

True theosis is how God in us changes us to share with Him. So, He does not merely have us know more. We glow more, in His love. We are sharing, not merely being given some special status or power or position.

Satan's kingdom, though, is very about knowing so we can control for what we want.

But God has us loving and caring and sharing as family, by becoming one with Him in His love.

So, then > like I offer > Hebrews 12:4-14 shows how we become because of God's correction. This is not something God just gives us in answer to our prayer. But this is a process which we ask for, yes, but also we need to submit to God for it. And I trust God to change me so I am honest and submissive to receive how He corrects me.

And - - - about having God's divinity . . . God's word says to follow God as His children > Ephesians 5:1-2. So, God is our example. Yes, God loves us "unconditionally", but this does not mean we can just go on being wrong and selfish; because God loving us unconditionally is our example, required also of us!

So, there is receiving deep correction of His love's perfection, plus growing and maturing in sharing with our Father and with one another as God's family. And in prayer we seek this and submit for this and keep discovering

 

[Ayenew]

True theosis is how God in us changes us to share with Him. So, He does not merely have us know more. We glow more, in His love. We are sharing, not merely being given some special status or power or position.

I believe that, through our relationship with Him, God transforms us to our pure and original nature. The nature we gained when God created man "in His image and likeness" and was lost due to sin. We will regain it, and may be more (I don't know). But, a human nature, and never a divine nature.

 

[com7fy8]

I believe that, through our relationship with Him, God transforms us to our pure and original nature. The nature we gained when God created man "in His image and likeness" and was lost due to sin. We will regain it, and may be more (I don't know). But, a human nature, and never a divine nature.

The Bible says that through God's promises we can be "partakers of the divine nature" > 2 Peter 1:2-4.

To partake can mean to share in something with someone else. In union with God > 1 Corinthians 6:17 > we are changed into how God is, Himself, because this is the only effect He can have in us. I mean, just cleaning us is not really effecting us with how He is.

And 1 John 4:17 says that by being perfected in His love > "as He is, so are we in this world."

In union with Him this works. This is in sharing with Him in us.

And He in this divine nature is incapable of sinning. But Adam and Eve were capable of sinning. So, we do not want to go back to that, but on to how Jesus is, in us sharing how He is and loves.

God's love is almighty, with immunity almighty against sinning, and against all evil things that help to weaken people to sin. So, if we are perfected in God's love, He is sharing with us how He can not give in to evil. Here is what grace has us succeeding in doing >

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)

This all comes by grace which is God richly and abundantly creating excellence in us, and this grace almighty succeeds to have us loving, instead of sinning . . . how the Bible says to become and to relate in loving.

So, my opinion is that if God were to just clean us up so we were like Adam and Eve, then like them we could just as easily fall to Satan, if they did.

So, yes the blood of Jesus has cleansed us; plus, God in us is changing us to how His character is so we can love the way God does, as His family.

Adam and Eve were independent of God, enough so they could fall that far. They were perfect but not one and in sharing with God to keep them from doing that. And I think that is an object lesson for us, so we realize being humanly perfect can not be enough; only with Jesus can we do well and succeed.

So, my opinion is that salvation does not bring us back to Adam and Eve and their created newness, but salvation brings a person to Jesus and how Jesus makes people new . . . in the quality and goodness of God's love.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Recently I have learned in theological classes that Theosis is in our doctrine (I am from Oriental Orthodox family). But I found many of the things in Theosis difficult to take. I even doubt many in our church know it and/or accept it. My question is: Is really Theosis what the universal church has believed for centuries? Is it an official doctrine in OO churches? And even, is there a well defined theology for Theosis?

Yes, Theosis is the ancient and universal teaching of the universal Christian Church. Not just the Oriental Orthodox, but all historic and mainstream Churches. The word itself is less common among the Western Churches (Catholic and Protestant), but it's still there.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

A new word to me...

Theosis can translate to "Divinization" or "Deification", which for could send alarm bells if one isn't familiar with it; especially if they have heard of, for example, the false doctrine of Mormonism that we can become gods. Theosis or Deification is the Christian doctrine that, through Christ, we have communion with God, and that by God's grace we--in Christ--share in the Divine nature. We do not "become gods", but that by our union to Christ we are being conformed and transformed to Christ's image.

Here is how Lutheran pastor, Pastor Jordan Cooper (who wrote a book about the subject from a Lutheran perspective) talks about it. Pastor Cooper prefers the term Christification, but if you got like 12 minutes to spare, it might be helpful. Again, obviously this is a Lutheran take on the subject.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ayenew]

The Bible says that through God's promises we can be "partakers of the divine nature" > 2 Peter 1:2-4.

To partake can mean to share in something with someone else. In union with God > 1 Corinthians 6:17 > we are changed into how God is, Himself, because this is the only effect He can have in us. I mean, just cleaning us is not really effecting us with how He is.

And 1 John 4:17 says that by being perfected in His love > "as He is, so are we in this world."

In union with Him this works. This is in sharing with Him in us.

And He in this divine nature is incapable of sinning. But Adam and Eve were capable of sinning. So, we do not want to go back to that, but on to how Jesus is, in us sharing how He is and loves.

God's love is almighty, with immunity almighty against sinning, and against all evil things that help to weaken people to sin. So, if we are perfected in God's love, He is sharing with us how He can not give in to evil. Here is what grace has us succeeding in doing >

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)

This all comes by grace which is God richly and abundantly creating excellence in us, and this grace almighty succeeds to have us loving, instead of sinning . . . how the Bible says to become and to relate in loving.

So, my opinion is that if God were to just clean us up so we were like Adam and Eve, then like them we could just as easily fall to Satan, if they did.

So, yes the blood of Jesus has cleansed us; plus, God in us is changing us to how His character is so we can love the way God does, as His family.

Adam and Eve were independent of God, enough so they could fall that far. They were perfect but not one and in sharing with God to keep them from doing that. And I think that is an object lesson for us, so we realize being humanly perfect can not be enough; only with Jesus can we do well and succeed.

So, my opinion is that salvation does not bring us back to Adam and Eve and their created newness, but salvation brings a person to Jesus and how Jesus makes people new . . . in the quality and goodness of God's love.

Thank you for your explanation and I agree that we will not be susceptible to fall as the first man was. That's why I added the "may be more" in my previous post. And I believe that it is not necessary for us to be gods (be deified) to be so.

Well, it may be above my understanding (and I may fall into errors) if I try to go more on it. But, a simple and direct question is that: Are we destined to be gods? Do you think you will get this response if you ask ordinary Christians (like me)?... I think we should be able to answer such simple questions without difficulty in our conscience if it is a sound and 'orthodox' doctrine of the church.

 

[Ayenew]

Yes, Theosis is the ancient and universal teaching of the universal Christian Church. Not just the Oriental Orthodox, but all historic and mainstream Churches. The word itself is less common among the Western Churches (Catholic and Protestant), but it's still there.

-CryptoLutheran

But, with different levels of understanding. My question is not on the word, but on the real meaning of deification.

 

[Ayenew]

Theosis can translate to "Divinization" or "Deification", which for could send alarm bells if one isn't familiar with it; especially if they have heard of, for example, the false doctrine of Mormonism that we can become gods. Theosis or Deification is the Christian doctrine that, through Christ, we have communion with God, and that by God's grace we--in Christ--share in the Divine nature. We do not "become gods", but that by our union to Christ we are being conformed and transformed to Christ's image.

Here is how Lutheran pastor, Pastor Jordan Cooper (who wrote a book about the subject from a Lutheran perspective) talks about it. Pastor Cooper prefers the term Christification, but if you got like 12 minutes to spare, it might be helpful. Again, obviously this is a Lutheran take on the subject.

-CryptoLutheran

Then what is the need to call it "Divinization" or "Deification", if it is not about becoming gods?

 

[com7fy8]

Are we destined to be gods?

no

If I become a "god", this can mean I have an independent personality and my independent power to control things.

yes

Jesus talks about how people became "gods" (in John 10:34-35) because the word of God came to them. So, yes God can say certain humans are gods. I would say this would mean they are mighty. But, then, even so, are they God's way. The right way of being a god is how I am with God so I have the personality of Jesus developing in me and God has me sharing with Him in His control which brings all-loving benefit to people. So, the way I am a god, with God, is I am compassionate and caring for others while in sharing with God's control and creativity for working out what is all-loving . . . not merely for me and my own ego boasting its control and greatness and independence. Being a god is being a great being, but in Christ we are great because of being with Jesus and humble and loving any and all people as ourselves.

God's word and submission to God does make us great . . . greater than this world's gods, to say the least.

And we can feed on how Abraham got people blessed >

"'All the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.'" (Genesis 22:18)

So, being a god the right way means how God's word makes us great in Jesus, and how our obedience results in how God blesses people. So, this is not a self-seeking thing, with worshiping our own independence and control, among other things.

the real meaning of deification.

I have offered what I consider is the Biblical meaning.

Then what is the need to call it "Divinization" or "Deification", if it is not about becoming gods?

It is not about becoming independent personalities called gods, if it is Biblical. For us in Jesus, we become more and more sharing with God so we have greatness and control but in sharing with Him. Jesus does refer us to Psalm 82:6 which says "You are gods." And ones understand that "gods" here means ones who are mighty.

But in order to be truly mighty . . . and therefore in sharing with Jesus . . . don't we need to be meek? And in being meek with Jesus, Jesus is almighty . . . while meek. So, yes with Jesus we are powerful. And God's word does say >

"Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might." (Ephesians 6:10)

So, plenty of scripture is talking about the right meaning of deification. And preachers are talking about this, though the word deification is not used. Possibly, then, it is wise not to make a project of calling attention to the word, but feed on all the Bible says about how to become conformed to the image of Jesus and how to love the way His example has us loving >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

So, then > Biblical deification and divinization and theosis is not merely about what label you are supposed to get, or some separate status above others. That would be a wrong way of it. This evil world has set some things up in a counterfeit way, in order to give things a bad name. Terrorists can try to do this > flood an economy with counterfeit money so people see money of a country in a bad way. Like this, people have misrepresented how theosis can be.

divinity is only for God?

Not according to the Bible. But the Biblical meaning of divinity is what God is able to share. It does not mean you being independent of God with some so-called divinity.

Hebrews 12:4-14 is clear how God's correction brings us His children to become "partakers of His holiness". To be a partaker means to share in something with God, in this case.

Now the meaning that you are talking about, indeed, is not Biblical.

I think Theosis is beyond this, to be deified (i.e. in my understanding to be gods, not the image of (like) God).

Well, your definition of course is not Biblical.

But what do you mean, by "the image of (like) God"?

What do you have for scriptures about what you mean
by being "(like) God"?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Then what is the need to call it "Divinization" or "Deification", if it is not about becoming gods?

It's simply the best way to translate Theosis. It's just that what these terms mean, in their historic theological context don't imply that we somehow become gods in ourselves. Divinization here is the sharing in God's divinity as a gracious act and work of God; that God in uniting Himself to human nature in Christ, and we in Christ share in His Divinity. Not an ontological transformation of our being from humanity to deity; but by a participation, a communion, with God by His grace. It is Divinization because we are sharing in, participating in, dwelling in, and having our life in and with God, the Divine; and this mystical union happens by grace, by our union with Christ and the grace and life of the Spirit.

-CryptoLutheran