WELS/LCMS merger

[dinkime]

I know that where I live (in the heart of LCMS country) and being a WELS member, I see quite a few differences. The BIGGIE that I see often and that I have dicussed with others of both synods is the fact that while LCMS preaches certain aspects of fellowship (i.e. closed communion) they do not always act on this. Some churches may practice closed communion, while the one down the road does not. Some may practice closed communion with one pastor, but not the other, or with a new one.

Since LCMS and WELS do agree on so much, I would hope that certain things (like practicing what you preach) could be resolved so we could be in fellowship with each other.

 

[tschenks]

I would hope that certain things (like practicing what you preach) could be resolved so we could be in fellowship with each other.

Give us all their names so we'll tell our pastor and lay delegate to tell our two circuit delegates to tell the next national convention of 1,200+ people (who only meet every three years) to kick them all out of the synod for us.

My own LCMS church is just fine -- traditional, liturgical, confessional and close(d) communion. But really, how many times in my life am I going to attend a worship service of another congregation within the LCMS besides my own?

I read on another website that most WELS congregations are full of LCMS people who can't find a nearby LCMS church. We have WELS people at our LCMS church who joined because they wanted to attend a Lutheran church close to where they live to worship with an actual congregation, rather than have a WELS pastor bring the Lord's Supper to them from some town on the other side of the state which is what their WELS pastors wanted them to do.

They might as well both STILL be in fellowship.

 

[SPALATIN]

I know that where I live (in the heart of LCMS country) and being a WELS member, I see quite a few differences. The BIGGIE that I see often and that I have dicussed with others of both synods is the fact that while LCMS preaches certain aspects of fellowship (i.e. closed communion) they do not always act on this. Some churches may practice closed communion, while the one down the road does not. Some may practice closed communion with one pastor, but not the other, or with a new one.

Since LCMS and WELS do agree on so much, I would hope that certain things (like practicing what you preach) could be resolved so we could be in fellowship with each other.

There is so much more to the WELS and LCMS not being in communion than you have even grazed here. Before you go trying to analyze this you should read more history so that you have a better grasp of why the WELS and LCMS do not commune.

 

[dinkime]

There is so much more to the WELS and LCMS not being in communion than you have even grazed here. Before you go trying to analyze this you should read more history so that you have a better grasp of why the WELS and LCMS do not commune.

i have read SEVERAL books, papers, etc about this...i have written papers in college regarding differences in the various Lutheran churches...

i was pointing out what I SEE and KNOW is happening everyday within a few miles of the LCMS offices...they claim to have closed communion, but all of their pastors do NOT practice this...

 

[tschenks]

One problem is that when our newly-ordained, correctly-trained, more-conservative-than-before Pastors try to restore closed communion (among other things), these liberal congregations treat them like hirelings and vote to remove them from office. Then the Synod does nothing because it is more concerned about keeping numbers than it is about disciplining congregations.

I may not sound very loving or patient in saying this but the Synod should have started kicking congregations out decades ago for not walking the correct path. Now, all they talk about is the independence and "uniqueness" of each congregation.

 

[dn341866]

It seems to me that LCMS could break off again when the new president got elected to LCMS alot of LCMS churches broke off I wish that the more Liberal churches would just join ELCA but I see a break In LCMS in the near future

 

[filosofer]

One problem is that when our newly-ordained, correctly-trained, more-conservative-than-before Pastors try to restore closed communion (among other things), these liberal congregations treat them like hirelings and vote to remove them from office. Then the Synod does nothing because it is more concerned about keeping numbers than it is about disciplining congregations.

I may not sound very loving or patient in saying this but the Synod should have started kicking congregations out decades ago for not walking the correct path. Now, all they talk about is the independence and "uniqueness" of each congregation.

Yes, that is one problem. However, I have also seen these "newly-ordained, correctly-trained, more-conservative-than-before Pastors" come in and try to force congregations to change overnight. Instead of ministry to and for the congregation these pastors speak and act as if they know it all and they will "straighten out this mess right now". I have seen that attitude/action destroy congregations. Sadly some DPs in the past "solved the problem" by moving them on to another congregation ... to repeat the same patern.

Does correction need to take place in congregations? Absolutely!! I will be the first to admit that. But the goal isn't a 3 month turn around to become "super-confessional". The goal is to teach, guide, correct, nurture, and feed the sheep so that they "grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ", and bring honor to God in the process.

We pray for faithful pastors who have a heart that reflects God's heart of compassion. We pray for congregations that have not grown in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, that they might become like the Bereans, and might faithfully hold to the truth of God's Word and fulfill their God-given responsibilities.

In Christ's love,
filo

 

[TheCosmicGospel]

It seems to me that LCMS could break off again when the new president got elected to LCMS alot of LCMS churches broke off I wish that the more Liberal churches would just join ELCA but I see a break In LCMS in the near future

LCMS is already split. It is just time before the "glue" fails. There is no more room for moderates in LCMS. It is either one extreme or the other. You are either from the High Church camp from Ft. Wayne or the supporters of the K club of St. Louis. It's sad.

I served in LCMS ministry for 20 years. I have the lashes on my back to prove it. The truth about WELS is this. They would never, never merge with LCMS. LCMS has too many theological camps. Notice even the conservatives leaving ELCA are not joining with LCMS.

Let history tell the tale. But the writing seems to be on the wall.

Peace and Joy,
Cosmic

 

[DaRev]

You are either from the High Church camp from Ft. Wayne or the supporters of the K club of St. Louis. It's sad.

As one of numerous pro-Confessional St. Louis alums, I take exception to your remark here. I suggest that you do a little homework before making such erroneous blanket statements like this again.

 

[TheCosmicGospel]

I don't know what homeowrk you might suggest would be helpful. I was in a circuit for four years where those lines were clearly drawn. There was no room for moderates. I wish it were not so. But that is what I saw and felt and lived. Your take is your take. But I hardly see St. Louis as a moderate stronghold. If it was, how did K get in? There just seems to be no middle ground in Missouri. It is one extreme or the other. Oh sure, no one is going to claim being "un-confessional". It is just that our confessional stances are not shaping our political future as can be seen by the current leadership, which I suppose you support. Just being confessional and supporting K is just one of those things that happens over and over as I have seen.

Shed your light among us. We are here to learn.

Peace and Joy.
Cosmic

 

[jcj3803]

A good name would be the lels.

Lutheran Evangelical Lutheran Synod?

Well, people would certainly know it was Lutheran.

 

[jcj3803]

LCMS is already split. It is just time before the "glue" fails. [...] The truth about WELS is this. They would never, never merge with LCMS. LCMS has too many theological camps. [...]

Let history tell the tale. But the writing seems to be on the wall.

Peace and Joy,
Cosmic

Wow. I was raised WELS, but living in Illinois the only church at a reasonable distance was LCMS. We received a new pastor who tore the congregation in two b/c of his management style and personality, not doctrine. Half stayed, half went ELCA. I went UMC.

I miss the Lutheran liturgy and the doctrine of true presence and have been thinking about joining an ELCA church.

Reading about "ELCA exploding" and now this is very disquieting. I guess that explains why ELCA and LCMS have both been losing members in the thousands while the non-denominational MegaChurches keep growing?

 

[Studeclunker]

I have enough trouble spelling in english let alone german, still, I'll try this...

Did you know, the original name of our church didn't even include luther's? It was Kirke Evangelica (kair-kah Ee-van-gell-ee-ka) or 'Evangelical Church'. Those of you from Germany (or here) or who actually speak the language, please feel free to correct me. Luther flatly refused to allow his name to be attached to the church.

How do you folks get those wonderful directors for the quotes????

Originally Posted by TheCosmicGospel
LCMS is already split. It is just time before the "glue" fails. [...] The truth about WELS is this. They would never, never merge with LCMS. LCMS has too many theological camps. [...]

Let history tell the tale. But the writing seems to be on the wall.

Peace and Joy,
Cosmic

Oh my, this just breaks my heart again. Perhaps the best thing to do would be to disolve the LCMS and allow the congregations to choose to which Lutheran (if any) branch they wish to cleve. If there is such a division and diversity in LCMS then a merger will just cause more blood letting, no matter which they choose.

As for me? I'd rather cross that bridge when I come to it (dragged, pushed and forced across).


The Lutheran Church is fractured, it's broken. I don't know if there is ever going to be a healing. It may be impossible.

Lord, my faith is weak. Help my faith. Help me to be an example of your love. Where there is strife, let me sow peace. Where there is hate, let me sow love. And where there is division, let there be a healing and unity. Thank you for the fathers of our church. For Martin Luther, Francis of Asisi, Paul and all the other men and also women that you have placed to edify and strengthen us. Amen.

 

[Confess]

Could someone explain to me the differences between the WELS and LCMS and why they are divided. If they are both confessional don't you think the minor differences could be resolved? Because when the Elca finally explodes they're probably gonna turn to the LCMS or WELS and it would be great if they were united. LOL

What do you guys think? I have seen ELCA congregations dissolve as well as liberal LCMS congregations dissolve. None of them went to more confessional Lutheran congregations or Synods. They went to the Episc., Moravians, Penecostals etc.

I used to be on a discussion list for the LCMC. None of them would ever consider any of the more confessional Lutherans mainly due to the female pastor issue.

What do you think? Hypothetically, if the ELCA "blew-up", would there be a big increase in membership in the more confessional churches?

 

[seajoy]

knee jerk Missouri mule

Peace and Joy.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Evangelische Kirche is how it is in German. I just had to drop in with this.

 

[Studeclunker]

But reacting like a knee jerk Missouri mule serves no one here.

Ow!!

Now, now, children. Let's play nice.

Evangelische Kirche is how it is in German. I just had to drop in with this.

Yeah, I didn't think I had it right. Thanks!! Even though my spelling was... abysmal, it still came out close. Like I said. Cant spell in english either(LOL)!

 

[DaRev]

I don't know what homeowrk you might suggest would be helpful. I was in a circuit for four years where those lines were clearly drawn. There was no room for moderates. I wish it were not so. But that is what I saw and felt and lived. Your take is your take. But I hardly see St. Louis as a moderate stronghold. If it was, how did K get in? There just seems to be no middle ground in Missouri. It is one extreme or the other. Oh sure, no one is going to claim being "un-confessional". It is just that our confessional stances are not shaping our political future as can be seen by the current leadership, which I suppose you support. Just being confessional and supporting K is just one of those things that happens over and over as I have seen.

Shed your light among us. We are here to learn. But reacting like a knee jerk Missouri mule serves no one here.

You know nothing about me at all. You have a lot of nerve to make such remarks.

 

[Studeclunker]

But I hardly see St. Louis as a moderate stronghold. If it was, how did K get in?

Um, I hate to sound ignorant, (I know, too late) who or what is K? If he's discussing the synod president, I have to agree. Tact please, (like I should talk?) tact please.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Um, I thought this thread was about WELS and LCMS and if they would ever merge. My thought is they would not. As has been said, there are just enough differences that neither are willing to move on.

Personally, I would prefer to see us talking with WELS than ELCA.

Oh, I find there are plenty of moderates in the LCMS. They may lean toward conservative, but there are many there.