VOTE HOW MANY BELIEVE IN A PRE TRIBULATION HOPE/RAPTURE ?

Jeffrey Bowden

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Do you have a cognisance issue?
John 14:3 says; I will come again......So; where Jesus is now, is in heaven, but He will depart from heaven in order to Return to the earth.
THEN; He will receive His people to Himself and where He will be, there we may be also. In Jerusalem - on the earth.

Trying to make that verse into a rapture removal, is a total failure and just shows the Bible does not support the rapture.
Become a real man of the Word and renounce all false teachings, the Lord will reward those who have the courage to overcome the lies they have been taught.

Your wrong belief.
Jesus will be seen by every eye when He Returns.

More wrong belief.
Verse 16 says; Jesus comes down from heaven.......

You are like a child who wants something so much, they just keep repeating their demands which have no substance or likelihood of being fulfilled.
The truth is: We must endure until the end. Matthew 24:13, Hebrews 10:36, Revelation 13:10 & 14:12
Acts 1:9-11 dictate that Jesus will return next for the pre-Trib rapture. He will descend behind clouds into the view of believers only (1 Th 4:16-17). Verse 17 proves Jesus descends behind clouds, and into the view of believers, only. We are raptured to Him. We go to Heaven per John 14:3.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Your wrong belief.
Jesus will be seen by every eye when He Returns.

More wrong belief.
Verse 16 says; Jesus comes down from heaven.......

You are like a child who wants something so much, they just keep repeating their demands which have no substance or likelihood of being fulfilled.
The truth is: We must endure until the end. Matthew 24:13, Hebrews 10:36, Revelation 13:10 & 14:12
Rev 1:7 only applies to the 2A, not the pre-Trib rapture. Acts 1:9-11 prove it.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Your wrong belief.
Jesus will be seen by every eye when He Returns.

More wrong belief.
Verse 16 says; Jesus comes down from heaven.......

You are like a child who wants something so much, they just keep repeating their demands which have no substance or likelihood of being fulfilled.
The truth is: We must endure until the end. Matthew 24:13, Hebrews 10:36, Revelation 13:10 & 14:12
Lighten up on you criticism, please. Your beliefs are yours; and mine are mine. I am guided by Acts 1:9-11 and that disqualifies the 2A from being the next return of Jesus. Jesus CANNOT be seen by unbelievers in the pre-Trib rapture, and 1 Th 4:16-17 accomplish that PERFECTLY. You will not find any other verses that accomplish the same sequence that Jesus MUST follow in His next return, than in 1 Th 4:16-17, the official rapture verses.
 
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keras

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Acts 1:9-11 dictate that Jesus will return next for the pre-Trib rapture.
Jeffery Bowden dictates that there be a pre-trib rapture!
the official rapture verses.
This is some kind of a joke, as there is no verse that says the Lord will take His people to heaven.

Lighten up? I assure you that it is better for you to stand a bit of heat on this forum, that for you to have to stand the heat of Gods Judgment.
Brother: renounce false theories before its too late.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Jeffery Bowden dictates that there be a pre-trib rapture!

This is some kind of a joke, as there is no verse that says the Lord will take His people to heaven.

Lighten up? I assure you that it is better for you to stand a bit of heat on this forum, that for you to have to stand the heat of Gods Judgment.
Brother: renounce false theories before its too late.
1 Cor 15:52 exclusively supports 1 Th 4:16-17. John 14:3 is a very brief summary of 1 Th 4:16-17. All four of those verses are exclusively part and parcel to Acts 1:11. The pre-Trib rapture is the next prophesied event to occur in the Bible. You can't attach Jerusalem to those verses because when they are fulfilled, no unbelievers can see Jesus.

The 2A is the time and place for Matt 24:30, Rev 1:7, etc. Those will occur about seven years after the pre-Trib rapture.
 
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keras

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Those 2 Prophesies are 1000 years apart.
Why are you not able to see that the 1 Cor 15:50-56 is a prophecy about the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium? When Death will be no more.
Revelation 21:4
John 14:3 is a very brief summary of 1 Th 4:16-17
Again; John 14:1-4 is 1000 years after the glorious Return
All four of those verses are exclusively part and parcel to Acts 1:11.
Only 1 Thess 4:17 and Acts 1:11 pertain to the one and only visible Return of King Jesus.
The pre-Trib rapture is the next prophesied event to occur in the Bible.
The soon to happen Day of the Lords fiery wrath is the next Prophesied event, which will commence all the end times.
There is no Bible support for such a crazy idea as a rapture removal. We must prove our faith by trusting in the Lord thru it all.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Those 2 Prophesies are 1000 years apart.
Why are you not able to see that the 1 Cor 15:50-56 is a prophecy about the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium? When Death will be no more.
Revelation 21:4

Again; John 14:1-4 is 1000 years after the glorious Return

Only 1 Thess 4:17 and Acts 1:11 pertain to the one and only visible Return of King Jesus.

The soon to happen Day of the Lords fiery wrath is the next Prophesied event, which will commence all the end times.
There is no Bible support for such a crazy idea as a rapture removal. We must prove our faith by trusting in the Lord thru it all.
Why don't you see that that 1 Th 4:16-17 don't occur within the Trib or 2A, etc.? Acts 1:9-11 describes Jesus' ascent as from in the view of believers, only. He ascends by Himself and behind heavenly clouds and is in Heaven. The reverse is required for Acts 1:11. In 1 Th 4:16, Jesus descends by Himself. You won't even find that in the 2A and beyond. He's got angels with Him in the 2A (Matt 24:31). In 1 Th 4:17, we don't even see Jesus until we are in our glorified bodies (1 Cor 15:52) and we are raptured into the clouds. Only then do we see and meet Jesus in the air.

I am aligning with those verses that are exclusively related to Acts 1:11. You are not aligning with them by adding the 2A, the MK and the GWTJ. All those require unbelievers to view Jesus, and that is NOT allowed in the next return of Jesus, per Acts 1:9-11.

1 Th 4:17 proves Jesus is behind heavenly clouds the whole time. We are raptured to Him. That is 1 Th 4:17 and John 14:3 being fulfilled together. We are then in Heaven to be with the Lord forever. Your wording of "atmospheric clouds" is not in alignment with the heavenly clouds that are in place to hide Jesus from view of unbelievers during the pre-Trib rapture. Jesus doesn't go to Jerusalem in the rapture. He goes to Jerusalem after Armageddon.

You cannot disprove any of this, because I am aligning 100% with those verses. You want to twist them and reshape them and put them in time periods where all your errors violate Acts 1:11. I am asking you to see your errors, and finally see the truth.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Those 2 Prophesies are 1000 years apart.
Why are you not able to see that the 1 Cor 15:50-56 is a prophecy about the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium? When Death will be no more.
Revelation 21:4

Again; John 14:1-4 is 1000 years after the glorious Return

Only 1 Thess 4:17 and Acts 1:11 pertain to the one and only visible Return of King Jesus.

The soon to happen Day of the Lords fiery wrath is the next Prophesied event, which will commence all the end times.
There is no Bible support for such a crazy idea as a rapture removal. We must prove our faith by trusting in the Lord thru it all.
One more point. You bring up verses, such as in Rev 21, that do not relate to the time before the Trib, when the rapture will happen.

You also need to see that the GWTJ is only for folks who die in sin. The Book of LIfe is a formality to include. No name of anyone being tried at the GWTJ is found in the Book of LIfe. All those who died in sin are cast into the lake of fire.

In the last sentence of Rev 20:4, the GM are resurrected. They are obviously saints. They will serve Jesus in the MK. Verse 5 (ESV): The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. ----- Those dead are not resurrected because they are UNBELIEVERS. They are NOT saints and they will not be resurrected until the GWTJ.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Yes. John 14:3 and 1 Th 1:10 fully support it. Let’s discuss those verses.
John 14:3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, so that where I am, there you may be also. (NRSV)

1 Thes. 1:10. and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath that is coming. (NRSV)

There is not in either of these verses so much as the slightest suggestion that the rapture of the Church will occur before the Great Tribulation of Matt. 24:21. Indeed, such an interpretation dates back to a book by John Nelson Darby published in 1830—or possibly a year earlier in the teaching of Edward Irving.

The pre-tribulation rapture theory is so ridiculous than it is nearly universally absent from all scholarly studies of Paul’s letters to the Thessalonians and The Revelation. The scholars do not believe it and they do not think that it makes enough sense to bother to refute it; therefore, they simply ignore it as nonsense. The really sad things about the doctrine, however, is that it teaches Christians, contrary to what the Bible teaches, that they need not prepare for the Great Tribulation, and that it throws into confusion New Testament texts regarding the saints, the elect, the Church, the judgment, and a whole host of other Biblical doctrines.
 
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keras

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The pre-tribulation rapture theory is so ridiculous
Thanks for a breath of fresh understanding on this thread.

As can be seen, those poor saps who have believed the lies taught to them by people they trusted, but were actually ravening wolves, are trapped into that idea; incredible as it seems.
We may wonder why God has allowed the 'rapture to heaven' lie to become so widespread among Christians. My thinking is that when the fiery test comes, 1 Peter 4:12, those who haven't taken care enough; Matthew 24:6, to find out what God really does plan for us in the end times. those people may lose their faith and renounce God for not doing what they wanted Hm to do.
The fulfilment of Matthew 3:12

However, there is hope for the rapture believers, I assume they have accepted the Salvation offered by Jesus, John 3:16, therefore they have the Promise of Eternal life. It is just the terrifying Day the Lord will change the world, the Sixth Seal disaster, which will shock them.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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John 14:3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, so that where I am, there you may be also. (NRSV)

1 Thes. 1:10. and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath that is coming. (NRSV)

There is not in either of these verses so much as the slightest suggestion that the rapture of the Church will occur before the Great Tribulation of Matt. 24:21. Indeed, such an interpretation dates back to a book by John Nelson Darby published in 1830—or possibly a year earlier in the teaching of Edward Irving.

The pre-tribulation rapture theory is so ridiculous than it is nearly universally absent from all scholarly studies of Paul’s letters to the Thessalonians and The Revelation. The scholars do not believe it and they do not think that it makes enough sense to bother to refute it; therefore, they simply ignore it as nonsense. The really sad things about the doctrine, however, is that it teaches Christians, contrary to what the Bible teaches, that they need not prepare for the Great Tribulation, and that it throws into confusion New Testament texts regarding the saints, the elect, the Church, the judgment, and a whole host of other Biblical doctrines.
Paul was speaking in 2 Th 2:1 (Geneva Bible): Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our assembling unto him,

2 Th 2:2 (NLT): Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us.

2 Th 2:3 (Geneva Bible): Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

"That day" in verse 3 refers back to "the day of the Lord" in verse 2. Therefore, it is unmistakable that these three verses are about the pre-Trib timing of the rapture.

Liddell & Scott Greek-English Lexicon gives two definitions for "apostasia" [which is in the Greek verse 3]: (1) defection; revolt; and (2) departure; disappearance. Departure, in Greek, is related to disappearance. Which definition fits verse 3, when we know for sure the context is the rapture?
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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John 14:3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, so that where I am, there you may be also. (NRSV)

1 Thes. 1:10. and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath that is coming. (NRSV)

There is not in either of these verses so much as the slightest suggestion that the rapture of the Church will occur before the Great Tribulation of Matt. 24:21. Indeed, such an interpretation dates back to a book by John Nelson Darby published in 1830—or possibly a year earlier in the teaching of Edward Irving.

The pre-tribulation rapture theory is so ridiculous than it is nearly universally absent from all scholarly studies of Paul’s letters to the Thessalonians and The Revelation. The scholars do not believe it and they do not think that it makes enough sense to bother to refute it; therefore, they simply ignore it as nonsense. The really sad things about the doctrine, however, is that it teaches Christians, contrary to what the Bible teaches, that they need not prepare for the Great Tribulation, and that it throws into confusion New Testament texts regarding the saints, the elect, the Church, the judgment, and a whole host of other Biblical doctrines.
1 Th 1:10 (NIV): and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Ezekiel 14:21 (NLT): “Now this is what the Sovereign Lord says: How terrible it will be when all four of these dreadful punishments fall upon Jerusalem—war, famine, wild animals, and disease—destroying all her people and animals.

Do you see the word "war" above that's a certified form of God's wrath?

Rev 6:4 (NLT): Then another horse appeared, a red one. Its rider was given a mighty sword and the authority to take peace from the earth. And there was war and slaughter everywhere.

There you have proof, that the "war" in the 2nd seal is the starting point for God's wrath in the Trib. That seal is opened on day 1 of the Trib. Now, read again 1 Th 1:10 (NIV): and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

That is proof the pre-Trib rapture will occur. The "wrath to come" begins in the 2nd seal. You can bet that seal is opened on day 1 of the Trib.
 
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Oseas

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Matthew 24: 21-22
21 For then shall be great TRIBULATION, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time(this current time), no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (The theory of being caught before this event of "days shall be shortened" is wrong, it's a nonsense).

Isaiah 26:20-21
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment (seven years), until the indignation be overpast.

21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Romans 2:6-11
6 GOD will render to every MAN according to his deeds:


7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.

Revelation 11:15 and 18

15 ... The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.


18 And the nations were(will be)angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged(Daniel 12:2. Take a look), and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

Get ready



To compare, here's two similar terrible situations

Psalm 34:19-Many are the afflictions of the righteous:but the Lord delivers him out of them all.
Acts 14:22-We must through much tribulation enter into the Kingdom of GOD.

The KING of DARKNESS, the Devil, showed to JESUS all the kingdoms of the world, the glory of them, and said: All will I give thee, if thou fall down and worship me.Mat.4:8-9.


Re.13:1
&15:
1 I stood upon the sand of the sea(John was a citzen of Israel), and saw a(MAN)Beast rise up out of the sea(Gentile nations), having 7 heads,10 horns, upon his HORNS 10 crowns, and upon his heads a NAME of blasphemy.
15 And he-MAN Beast of earth-Re.13:11-a false messiah-John 5:43-47, had power to give life unto the Beast's image,that the image should speak, who worships not the image must be killed.

Daniel 3:2-20
The KING sent to gather the princes, governors, the captains, the judges, the counsellors, all the rulers of the provinces, to come to the dedication of the image he had set up. They stood before the image and an herald cried: To you is commanded, O people, NATIONS, and languages, that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image the king has set up: Whoso falls not down and worships shall be cast into the burning fiery furnace. But Shadrach,Meshach,Abednego, O king, have not regarded thee, they serve not thy gods, nor worship the image you has set up. So in his rage and fury the KING commanded to bring them, and said: Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego, do not ye serve my gods, nor worship the IMAGE I have set up? When you hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, psaltery, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image I have made; well: if not, ye shall be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; who is that GOD that shall deliver you out of my hands?
O king, our GOD whom we serve is able to deliver us from furnace, thy hands, and we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the image you have set up .

That said, Get ready
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Paul was speaking in 2 Th 2:1 (Geneva Bible): Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our assembling unto him,

2 Th 2:2 (NLT): Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us.

2 Th 2:3 (Geneva Bible): Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

"That day" in verse 3 refers back to "the day of the Lord" in verse 2. Therefore, it is unmistakable that these three verses are about the pre-Trib timing of the rapture.

Liddell & Scott Greek-English Lexicon gives two definitions for "apostasia" [which is in the Greek verse 3]: (1) defection; revolt; and (2) departure; disappearance. Departure, in Greek, is related to disappearance. Which definition fits verse 3, when we know for sure the context is the rapture?

2 Thes. 2:1. NOW CONCERNING the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren,
2. not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition,
4. who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (RSV)

Liddell & Scott's Greek-English Lexicon is NOT a lexicon of the New Testament—or even of Koine Greek! It is a lexicon of classical Greek literature—a very different dialect that is never used in the New Testament. Moreover, the meaning “departure; disappearance” is NEVER used in the New Testament! The only meanings found in the New Testament are, “defiance of established system or authority,” that is “rebellion, abandonment, breach of faith” (BDAG, p. 121). Furthermore, Liddell & Scott's Greek-English Lexicon was originally published in 1843 and the most recent edition was published in 1940.

The current Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament is A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature, Third Edition (BDAG) published in 2000 by The University of Chicago Press. The pedigree of this lexicon would be in order here,

By the early 1900’s, the new studies in the lexicography of Koine Greek had become so great in number and significance that Erwin Preuschen published his Greek-German lexicon in 1910. Upon his death in 1920, the revision of his lexicon was entrusted to Walter Bauer and this revision was published in 1928 as the second edition. In 1930, James Hope Mouton and George Milligan independently published The Vocabulary of the Greek Testament. A thoroughly revised edition of the Preuschen lexicon was published in 1937 with only Bauer’s name on the title page. Bauer realized, however, that his lexicon, although a huge improvement over Thayer’s in terms of accuracy and completeness, needed to be thoroughly revised and updated and therefore undertook a thorough search of all Greek literature down to the Byzantine times to determine more precisely the meaning of the words found in the New Testament. This resulted in the publication of the monumental work, Griechisch-Deutsches Wörterbuch zu den Schriften des Neuen Testaments und der übrigen urchristlichen Literatur in 1949-1952. An English translation (by William F. Arndt and F. Wilbur Gingrich) of this lexicon was published by the University of Chicago in 1957 with the title, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature and became widely known as the “Bauer, Arndt, and Gingrich Lexicon.” A second edition was published by the University of Chicago in 1979. A thorough revision by Frederick William Danker was published by the University of Chicago in 2000. It is very commonly referred to simply as the “BDAG” and this name appears on the title page in parenthesis below the full title.

This outstanding lexicon is used today in Bible colleges, seminaries, and universities around the world and has been cited hundreds of thousands of times simply as, “BDAG”.

Now back to the New Testament passage under consideration,

2 Thes. 2:1. NOW CONCERNING the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren,
2. not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition,
4. who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (RSV)

What we have here is Christians in Thessalonica who are afraid that they have missed the rapture and Paul assuring them that that is not possible because the rapture will be preceded by the foretold rebellion and the revealing of the man of lawlessness.
 
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keras

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What we have here is Christians in Thessalonica who are afraid that they have missed the rapture and Paul assuring them that that is not possible because the rapture will be preceded by the foretold rebellion and the revealing of the man of lawlessness.
Your use of the word 'rapture' is confusing, as any kind of removal of the Church is not said or implied in 2 Thess 2:1-4.
It is the glorious Return of Jesus and our meeting of Him as King, that Paul refers to.

It is interesting how some like to use old and superseded writings, such as the Geneva Bible, the KJV and text books that are now vastly more accurate, with many more ancient sources now available. Those old texts seem to suit their weird and wrong beliefs.
 
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Douggg

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@keras

John 14:

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

Thomas in verse 5 kinda sounds like you, keras, doesn't he ?

Also, was not Thomas also known as "doubting Thomas" later on regrading Jesus's resurrection ?
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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I was referring to 1 Thess 4:14, where it says Jesus will bring the dead in Christ with Him. This means only the GT martyrs, as per Rev 20:4

1 Thess 417 is not a 'rapture/resurrection', as you like to imagine. It will be a transportation to where Jesus will be, initially in the atmospheric clouds, then Jerusalem.

our redemption draws nigh. So when these things happen, which will be the wrath of God on the godless peoples, THEN; we will know the glorious Return is not too far away.
If you think -look up...... means people will be taken up, then you have again added to scripture with the totally impossible idea of being raptured to heaven.
Spare us your fanciful charts, they just show your errors and confusion.

Your use of the word 'rapture' is confusing, as any kind of removal of the Church is not said or implied in 2 Thess 2:1-4.
It is the glorious Return of Jesus and our meeting of Him as King, that Paul refers to.

It is interesting how some like to use old and superseded writings, such as the Geneva Bible, the KJV and text books that are now vastly more accurate, with many more ancient sources now available. Those old texts seem to suit their weird and wrong beliefs.

2 Thes. 2:1. NOW CONCERNING the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren,
2. not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition,
4. who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (RSV)

Liddell & Scott's Greek-English Lexicon is NOT a lexicon of the New Testament—or even of Koine Greek! It is a lexicon of classical Greek literature—a very different dialect that is never used in the New Testament. Moreover, the meaning “departure; disappearance” is NEVER used in the New Testament! The only meanings found in the New Testament are, “defiance of established system or authority,” that is “rebellion, abandonment, breach of faith” (BDAG, p. 121). Furthermore, Liddell & Scott's Greek-English Lexicon was originally published in 1843 and the most recent edition was published in 1940.

The current Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament is A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature, Third Edition (BDAG) published in 2000 by The University of Chicago Press. The pedigree of this lexicon would be in order here,

By the early 1900’s, the new studies in the lexicography of Koine Greek had become so great in number and significance that Erwin Preuschen published his Greek-German lexicon in 1910. Upon his death in 1920, the revision of his lexicon was entrusted to Walter Bauer and this revision was published in 1928 as the second edition. In 1930, James Hope Mouton and George Milligan independently published The Vocabulary of the Greek Testament. A thoroughly revised edition of the Preuschen lexicon was published in 1937 with only Bauer’s name on the title page. Bauer realized, however, that his lexicon, although a huge improvement over Thayer’s in terms of accuracy and completeness, needed to be thoroughly revised and updated and therefore undertook a thorough search of all Greek literature down to the Byzantine times to determine more precisely the meaning of the words found in the New Testament. This resulted in the publication of the monumental work, Griechisch-Deutsches Wörterbuch zu den Schriften des Neuen Testaments und der übrigen urchristlichen Literatur in 1949-1952. An English translation (by William F. Arndt and F. Wilbur Gingrich) of this lexicon was published by the University of Chicago in 1957 with the title, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature and became widely known as the “Bauer, Arndt, and Gingrich Lexicon.” A second edition was published by the University of Chicago in 1979. A thorough revision by Frederick William Danker was published by the University of Chicago in 2000. It is very commonly referred to simply as the “BDAG” and this name appears on the title page in parenthesis below the full title.

This outstanding lexicon is used today in Bible colleges, seminaries, and universities around the world and has been cited hundreds of thousands of times simply as, “BDAG”.

Now back to the New Testament passage under consideration,

2 Thes. 2:1. NOW CONCERNING the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren,
2. not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition,
4. who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (RSV)

What we have here is Christians in Thessalonica who are afraid that they have missed the rapture and Paul assuring them that that is not possible because the rapture will be preceded by the foretold rebellion and the revealing of the man of lawlessness.
What 2 Th 2:1-3 are solely about is the pre-Trib timing of the rapture. There is no “gathering unto Him” (2 Th 2:1) in connection with the 2A (2nd Advent). You might claim that Matt 24:31 is one. No, it doesn’t account for where that gathering ends up. Best guesses are Rev 19:14 or Matt 25:32-40.

The important fact is, Paul was raising the topic of the rapture in 2 Th 2:1. That establishes the immediate context.

In 2 Th 2:2, Paul cites the deception suffered by his Thessalonian flock. They received a fraudulent letter, made to appear to be from Paul. That letter stated that they had missed the rapture and were in the Trib.

2 Th 2:3 answers to that deception by specifically stating that the Trib (Day of the Lord) won’t come unless the apostasia comes first.

Verses 1 cites the rapture then verse 2 cites the fraudulent letter. Verse 3 corrects his flock: the Trib can’t be because the apostasia occurs, first.

The main context of these three verses is the rapture (verse 1). The only definition of apostasia (in verse 3) that applies is “departure; disappearance,” meaning “physical departure.”

Those are the basic facts of those three verses. But, I let the Bible provide the proof, and the proof is in those early versions of 2 Th 2:1-3 (before KJV came along).

Did you know thst “falling away” did not appear in 2 Th 2:3 until the first KJV Bible in 1611? Here’s what else: The folks at KJV wouldn’t say why they made that sea change in verse 3 back then, and they still won’t say why, to this day.

They weren’t the first to monkey with 2 Th 2:3; the Douay–Rheims Bible of 1582 was the first. That’s where “revolt” first appeared in 2 Th 2:3. The Roman Catholics are rabid antagonists to the pre-Trib rapture. But, their “rapture” at Matt 24:31 is not the rapture. It never gets off the ground. The point is, the early Bibles got it right. The modern Bibles are a reflection of the hatred of the pre-Trib rapture. Who really has Hell to pay on Judgment Day, are those who altered 2 Th 2:3 with propaganda.

Paul first wrote about the pre-Trib timing of the rapture in 1 Th 1:10. The fact of God’s wrath beginning no later than the 2nd seal, confirms the truth of the pre-Trib timing of the rapture (1 Th 4:16-17).

The pre-Trib rapture is the next prophesied event that will occur.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Your use of the word 'rapture' is confusing, as any kind of removal of the Church is not said or implied in 2 Thess 2:1-4.
It is the glorious Return of Jesus and our meeting of Him as King, that Paul refers to.
2 Thes. 2:1. NOW CONCERNING the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren,
2. not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition,
4. who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

I strongly disagree! Our assembling to meet Christ is never said to be anywhere other than in the air (Greek = ἀήρ)—hence the rapture.

1 Thes. 4:13. But we would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.
14. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.
15. For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first;
17. then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.
18. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

The Christians in Thessalonica were afraid that they had missed the “blessed hope,” the glorious return of Jesus and our meeting of Him in the air.

Tit_2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Mat. 24:29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken;
30. then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory;
31. and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat. 26:64. Jesus said to him, "You have said so. But I tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Mark:13:26. And then they will see the Son of man coming in clouds with great power and glory.
27. And then he will send out the angels, and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

Mark 16:62. And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

(All quotations from Scriptures are from the RSV, 1971)
 
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keras

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I strongly disagree! Our assembling to meet Christ is never said to be anywhere other than in the air (Greek = ἀήρ)—hence the rapture.
Sure, I agree; but that rising to meet Jesus is not a 'rapture removal to heaven'.
It is a transportation thru the atmosphere, from where His faithful people are - from the four winds... Matthew 24:31b, to where Jesus will be; in Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:4

I agree with the rest of your post.
Note; how His people shall see the glorious Return, confirmed by Revelation 1:7, which blows away any foolish belief idea of being in heaven at that time.
 
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keras

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Thomas in verse 5 kinda sounds like you, keras, doesn't he ?

Also, was not Thomas also known as "doubting Thomas" later on regrading Jesus's resurrection ?
This is a fairly nasty accusation. It just may rebound onto yourself.

I do know perfectly well the way we Christians will go:
Isaiah 35:8=10 A highway will appear, called the way of holiness.....the Lords people will enter Zion with shouts of triumph.....;
Isaiah 30:21 This is the way, follow it.
Psalms 107:1-3 Give thanks to the Lord, all you peoples who He has chosen...... they gather out of the lands from the East, West, North and the South.

Thinking the Church will go to heaven at anytime, is a wrong theory and contradicts many Prophesies.
 
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