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Vatican to Hold Press Conference About Medjugorje on Thursday; Announcement Will Be Livestreamed at 5:30am ET

FaithT

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COMMENTARY: ‘The Nihil obstat indicates that the faithful can receive a positive encouragement for their Christian life through this spiritual proposal.’

I don’t think the ones having the visions are lying and I don’t think they’re having a group hallucination. OTOH, it’s said that not all of the messages agree with the Church which still makes me skeptical. I don’t know what to think.
 
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RileyG

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Jesus didn’t even know.
It’s been explained to me since Jesus now sits at the right hand of God in heaven, he now has all of the Father’s knowledge. Jesus is God. God knows everything.

Correct me if i’m wrong.
 
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RileyG

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I don’t think the ones having the visions are lying and I don’t think they’re having a group hallucination. OTOH, it’s said that not all of the messages agree with the Church which still makes me skeptical. I don’t know what to think.
I agree. If anything, it’s good people are going back to Church.
 
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FaithT

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It’s been explained to me since Jesus now sits at the right hand of God in heaven, he now has all of the Father’s knowledge. Jesus is God. God knows everything.

Correct me if i’m wrong.
I think you’re right, but I don’t believe that he’s giving that knowledge to Mary who’s giving it to the seers.
 
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joymercy

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Fr Ripperger spoke quite a lot on the visionaries and how and why he has serious doubts about them

I don't know if I saved those videos or not, but Father gave very good evidence for mental illness.....

They are on youtube somewhere.

There are claimed to be tens of thousands of messages from Mary, which is totally unlike the ones recognized by the Church such as Our Lady of Fatima.

I wonder if its a mix of true revelations as well as actual delusions?

The Vatican did give the nihil obstat.....
 
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FaithT

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I would say if it’s not Mary that it is a malevolent force masquerading as an angel of light. There. I said it. :sorry:
Yikes! I wish the Church would say more about it but Pope Francis is skeptical too.
 
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FaithT

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Fr Ripperger spoke quite a lot on the visionaries and how and why he has serious doubts about them

I don't know if I saved those videos or not, but Father gave very good evidence for mental illness.....

They are on youtube somewhere.

There are claimed to be tens of thousands of messages from Mary, which is totally unlike the ones recognized by the Church such as Our Lady of Fatima.

I wonder if its a mix of true revelations as well as actual delusions?

The Vatican did give the nihil obstat.....
Yeah, the Vatican giving the nihil obstat seems like a bit of a contradiction.
 
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Michie

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Well this is an earful.

 
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FaithT

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Well this is an earful.


I read most of the article and believe it. It makes sense. I’ll finish reading it later.
 
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RileyG

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St. Gemma Galangi was often tormented by demons. When a demon appeared to her they would say "Glory" but they never said "Glory to Jesus Christ" since demons can't praise Jesus.

I wonder if this apparition is praising God? Who knows?
 
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Michie

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Messages that contradict Church teaching

One sign of the non-heavenly origin of the visions is the acknowledged existence of messages that openly conflict with Catholic doctrine, showcased in chapter 8. For example, on one occasion the seers were told “they do not have to pray for themselves, because she has rewarded them in a better way. Let them pray for others” (100). Another time, they spoke of God permitting souls to suffer hell because of sins He could not pardon. They stated that everyone in hell suffers in the same way, and that those in heaven are present already in their souls and bodies (ibid.). On July 24, 1982, however, this message was received: “The body, drawn from the earth, decomposes after death. It never comes back to life again. Man receives a transfigured body” (ibid.): this is exactly contrary to the Fourth Lateran Council, which teaches: “They will arise with their bodies which they have now.”

On October 1, 1981, a seer posed the question: “Are all the faiths good? Are all the faiths identical?” The “Gospa” responded: “Before God all the faiths are identical. God governs them like a king in his kingdom” (101).2Another time: “In God’s eyes there are no divisions and there are no religions. You in the world have made the divisions” (293). Perhaps this sort of problem explains why, after a time, messages were “checked thoroughly for adherence to Scripture and church doctrine” (207) before being transmitted to the world. Foley exclaims: “Had the Blessed Virgin Mary become so deficient in scriptural and doctrinal knowledge that her messages now needed to be vetted by Fr Barbaric?” (ibid.).

Most tellingly for readers of Tradition & Sanity, an enthusiastic Fr. René Laurentin concluded that the “Gospa’s” messages “fit in with the pastoral life of the post-conciliar Church. The Virgin encourages openness and ecumenism” (145). He also said, remarkably, “the apparitions of Medjugorje are without any of the historical particularities of Catholicism and thus have a better quality ecumenical dimension” (146)!

Some messages defended the rebellious Franciscans in their opposition to the bishop (108). The seer Marija related that the “Gospa” recommended the reading of Maria Valtorta’s The Poem of the Man-God (“that book is the truth!,” she is purported to have said)—a book condemned by the Holy Office and placed on the Index under John XXIII in 1959, and one that, in Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger’s words in 1985, had “not been condemned lightly.” Sandra Miesel calls it “a monument to pseudo-religiosity” and notes its “blatant and offensive defects.”

Foley also looks at the opposite problem:

 
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Solo81

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Yikes! I wish the Church would say more about it but Pope Francis is skeptical too.
The Church has assessed what is happening in Medj using 2 criteria: the verified fruits and the messages. (Obv, everything is alleged).


The Church sees the verified fruits as being conversions, vocations, renewal, return to sacraments, renewal of married vocations and many other experiences, while dangerous practices have not spread among the people of God. The Note states that these positive fruits are connected with pilgrimage to Medj and are not dependent on meeting the seers or being present at a vision or even reading the messages. The Church would like to see these prayer-related practices of Medj being adopted elsewhere too, in the hope the same results were to flow from it.


The Church says the messages are edifying; don't contradict the Gospel or Church teaching and that many perceived errors were the result of poor translation or "theologically imprecise" language or terms. This was down to subjective human frailty and not a desire to deceive. Certain messages, when partially read, can distort what Our Lady is conveying and this can lead to confusion.
*For example, she never speaks of the End. She has said that this (Medj) will be the last time she appears on Earth because afterwards, people won't need to be called to return to God or to stop sinning anymore. It's easy to see how this could be distorted to say that we are definitely in the End Times. The messages speak a lot about the battle between good and evil in the World and in the hearts of people but no message has been Apocalyptic or about the Final battle of good and evil that will culminate with Christ's return. This para.* was my addition, not from the Note.

The Note rarely mentions the seers but advises people to pilgrimage to Medj to have an encounter with Mary, Queen of Peace and her son, Jesus Christ rather than going solely to meet the seers: <--- this advice is 30yrs too late imo.
The moral life of the seers isn't discussed in the Note but it does say that the phenomena doesn't require them to have moral perfection. If the seers were Saints, it wouldn't make the apparitions and messages true but the apparitions and messages shouldn't be rejected if the seers aren't morally perfect Saints.

All new messages, or messages received in the past for future revelation, must be submitted to the Vatican's man in Medj - his name is in the Note - and they can only be reproduced and disseminated with his approval.

For example, the message relayed on Sept 25, 2024 reads...

"Dear children, God has sent me among you, to love you and encourage you to prayer and conversion, for peace in you and in your families and in the world. Little children, do not forget that true peace comes only through prayer, from God Who is your peace. Thank you for having responded to my call.” (With Ecclesiastical approval) ”

The Church has given the green light but no-one is ordered to accept, believe or adhere to Medj. And after 43 yrs, if the Church had serious doubts about the validity of the phenomena, we all would have heard it by now. It has passed through 3 Popes and the original decrees of Bp. Zanic of Mostar have been overturned, in action not in word. But this is not a confirmation of authenticity...


Adds: From the end of the Note
"Supreme Pontiff Francis, at the Audience granted to the undersigned Prefect, together with the Secretary for the Doctrinal Section of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, on 28 August 2024, approved this Note and ordered its publication."
 
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