Utah students can no longer bring personal copies of banned books to school [Lucky thing SLC reversed its ban on the Bible]

[RileyG]

My small county school in North Alabama had Mein Kampf and the Necronomicon back in the mid 1980s.

Yikes! Makes me wonder if anyone checked it out.

 

[Belk]

The biggest issue over books being banned right now is the banning of books like "All Boys Aren't Blue" and "Gender Queer" and similar which contain erotica written for children.

It is not erotica. I reject that on its face having seen the relevant sections in context.

That aside do you expect school libraries to contain every book that's ever been written? Do you think they're all as big as the Library of Congress? Of the 239829825982598215 books in existence, a school library can only hold a very small percentage of that.

I made no claims of such and this argument strikes me very much as a strawman. No one claimed all books should be included. Just that the claims of "erotica" are not supported and it looks very much like an attempt to exclude books that are LGBT themed by mislabeling them.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Yikes! Makes me wonder if anyone checked it out.

A bunch of us would look to see if anyone checked out the Necronomicon every now and then, only one kid did, on Wednesday November 23, 1988. Over the Thanksgiving weekend. He is now a preacher and music minister in Tennessee.

 

[RileyG]

A bunch of us would look to see if anyone checked out the Necronomicon every now and then, only one kid did, on Wednesday November 23, 1988. Over the Thanksgiving weekend. He is now a preacher and music minister in Tennessee.

Fascinating you remember the date!

I wonder if you kept in contact with him.

Were you the only Jewish student?

Sorry, I'm rambling now lol

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Well, there's a story for the date. My younger brother Jon died in a car accident later in the day.

We were on Facebook years ago but the last contact was 2008.

There were three prior to that day, after that just me and my sister.

 

[ozso]

It is not erotica. I reject that on its face having seen the relevant sections in context.

When parents read that stuff out loud at school board meetings the board members aren't able to tolerate it. There's oodles of videos of that taking place. Your perception of what's appropriate for people's kids doesn't coincide with their parents view. Perhaps you'd even like it turned up more.

I made no claims of such and this argument strikes me very much as a strawman. No one claimed all books should be included. Just that the claims of "erotica" are not supported and it looks very much like an attempt to exclude books that are LGBT themed by mislabeling them.

My point is I don't think you are concerned about all the books that school libraries don't carry. You just object to them not being stocked with LGBTQQIP2SAA+ books for kids.

 

[Sif]

was off topic

 

[Belk]

When parents read that stuff out loud at school board meetings the board members aren't able to tolerate it. There's oodles of videos of that taking place.

Only one I'm aware of. That is not "oodles" and not a standard I find relevant. We do not determine erotica by "allowed to be read in a meeting".

Your perception of what's appropriate for people's kids doesn't coincide with their parents view. Perhaps you'd even like it turned up more.

Then those parents are free to not have their kids read those books. I don't see why they should decide this for other parents who are fine with it.

My point is I don't think you are concerned about all the books that school libraries don't carry. You just object to them not being stocked with LGBTQQIP2SAA+ books for kids.

No, I object to the ongoing culture war attempts to control access by people simply because they find certain ideas objectionable. You don't like it, don't read it. Stop trying to control everyone else.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

My high school library didn't have either of those. However, the fiction section had some of H. P. Lovecraft's work. I began read Lovecraft when I was 15 and became aware of the fictional Necronomicon in his stories.

I read Mein Kampf in college as part of a course of European History. It was in college I also read a couple of stories from the Marquis de Sade. It was part of a course on violence in literature.

Our Mein Kampf I'm pretty sure was from the 1970s, I have seen others like it in different libraries.

I think the Necronomicon was snuck in by the libraries teachers aide for a senior prank in 83-84. It had all the right stamps, card holder, and dewey decimal tag, but no card in the cardholder. This was pre bar code

 

[keith99]

I see no problem with that whatsoever along with the Quran and whatever else is comparable. If it's not a religious school, they're not there to learn religion. Outside of whatever history and social studies needs to cover.

I see a problem with banning, as in not allowing a school library to have, religious books. The same problem I see with banning Das Kapital, Mein Kamph, Mao's Little Red Book and The Communist Manifesto. All are source documents for what groups with significant power believe.

 

[keith99]

What obscenity is in either of those books?

Did Atticus have a boy friend, or Tom and Huck have sex?

Was there a urinating for distance contest? Did both Tom and Huck use language that I cannot use here or pretty much anywhere else?

 

[Always in His Presence]

It is not erotica. I reject that on its face having seen the relevant sections in context.

The depiction of a young boy performing oral sex on a man is not erotica? What on earth is? No - don't answer that.

I cannot even post an edited depiction of the child pornography from the book.

 

[Belk]

The depiction of a young boy performing oral sex on a man is not erotica? What on earth is? No - don't answer that.

If you think being raped is erotica then that's on you.

 

[BCP1928]

The depiction of a young boy performing oral sex on a man is not erotica? What on earth is? No - don't answer that.

Descriptions of sexual activity need not be erotic, that is, cause sexual arousal in the reader. I expect that for a heterosexual male the scene you describe would have quite the opposite effect.

 

[Always in His Presence]

If you think being raped is erotica then that's on you.

It was not a rape depiction - I'm beginning to wonder if you ever opened the book. It is a young boy describing (with graphic illustrations) the sex act with an older male. It hides nothing, and I don't understand how an adult could support it's dissemination to children

It's child pornography.

Child pornography is a form of child sexual exploitation. Federal law defines child pornography as any visual depiction of sexually explicit conduct involving a minor (persons less than 18 years old). Images of child pornography are also referred to as child sexual abuse images.​

Federal law prohibits the production, distribution, importation, reception, or possession of any image of child pornography. A violation of federal child pornography laws is a serious crime, and convicted offenders face fines severe statutory penalties​

​

Child Pornography

www.justice.gov

 

[Belk]

It was not a rape depiction - I'm beginning to wonder if you ever opened the book. It is a young boy describing (with graphic illustrations) the sex act with an older male. It hides nothing, and I don't understand how an adult could support it's dissemination to children

It's child pornography.

Child pornography is a form of child sexual exploitation. Federal law defines child pornography as any visual depiction of sexually explicit conduct involving a minor (persons less than 18 years old). Images of child pornography are also referred to as child sexual abuse images.​

Federal law prohibits the production, distribution, importation, reception, or possession of any image of child pornography. A violation of federal child pornography laws is a serious crime, and convicted offenders face fines severe statutory penalties​

​

Child Pornography

www.justice.gov

It is statuary rape by definition and it is not intended as erotica. Do you find statutory rape erotica? I think you do not. So why do you defend it as erotica? What in the scene leads you to believe it is meant to be erotic?

 

[BCP1928]

It was not a rape depiction - I'm beginning to wonder if you ever opened the book. It is a young boy describing (with graphic illustrations) the sex act with an older male. It hides nothing, and I don't understand how an adult could support it's dissemination to children

It's child pornography.

Child pornography is a form of child sexual exploitation. Federal law defines child pornography as any visual depiction of sexually explicit conduct involving a minor (persons less than 18 years old). Images of child pornography are also referred to as child sexual abuse images.​

Federal law prohibits the production, distribution, importation, reception, or possession of any image of child pornography. A violation of federal child pornography laws is a serious crime, and convicted offenders face fines severe statutory penalties​

​

Child Pornography

www.justice.gov

It's a depiction of rape. Statutory rape. It also may be child pornography under the law you cited. But the question raised was, is it erotica?

 

[RileyG]

Well, there's a story for the date. My younger brother Jon died in a car accident later in the day.

We were on Facebook years ago but the last contact was 2008.

There were three prior to that day, after that just me and my sister.

Oh no! I'm so sorry.

 

[RileyG]

It was not a rape depiction - I'm beginning to wonder if you ever opened the book. It is a young boy describing (with graphic illustrations) the sex act with an older male. It hides nothing, and I don't understand how an adult could support it's dissemination to children

It's child pornography.

Child pornography is a form of child sexual exploitation. Federal law defines child pornography as any visual depiction of sexually explicit conduct involving a minor (persons less than 18 years old). Images of child pornography are also referred to as child sexual abuse images.​

Federal law prohibits the production, distribution, importation, reception, or possession of any image of child pornography. A violation of federal child pornography laws is a serious crime, and convicted offenders face fines severe statutory penalties​

​

Child Pornography

www.justice.gov

Did you read the book?

 

[RileyG]

The depiction of a young boy performing oral sex on a man is not erotica? What on earth is? No - don't answer that.

I cannot even post an edited depiction of the child pornography from the book.

Hmmm.....

Ever read IT by Stephen King? I read it when I was 14 in less than two weeks.

And yes, King has since denounced that infamous scene.