Understanding the Gifts of the Spirit and Order in Worship (Check here often, slow process)

[ARBITER01]

I 100% agree with you that Acts 2 and Corinthians. I am not sure I understand what you are saying here in bold orange.

There are 3 gifts that can be vocal for corporate or personal edification,...

1) gift of prophesying
2) gift of tongues
3) gift of interpretation

All 3 of these gifts can be operated by our regenerated human spirit AND The Holy Spirit.

- The gift of tongues cannot be understood in human languages, according to scripture it requires the gift of interpretation to understand what is spoken.

- The gift of interpretation and the gift of prophesying are spoken in human languages,.......any human language, not just our own. That's the part that can throw people off when one of these gifts operates in such a way. That operation of one of these gifts in a language other than our own is a rare operation, but it is correct as described in Acts 2.

How do we know that such an operation happened in Acts 2? By what Peter referenced,.....

Act 2:16 but this is that which hath been spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour forth of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 Yea and on my servants and on my handmaidens in those days Will I pour forth of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy.

He didn't reference a section of OT scripture that talked about tongue speaking (there is none that I know of), he referenced the one on prophesying.

When tongues and interpretation happens by The Holy Spirit, that is considered prophesying according to scripture,...

1Co 14:5 Now I would have you all speak with tongues, but rather that ye should prophesy: and greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

It is considered equal to the gift of prophesying in operation, hence why The Holy Spirit referenced that section of scripture in Peter.

It wasn't just tongues that was poured out in Acts 2, all the gifts were given to the new disciples when The Holy Spirit was poured out. And so were ministries and offices.

In other words, if you understood the language spoken was an American Indian dialect, then you have two choices of gifts that could have happened at that moment, the gift of interpretation in relation to your prayer language, or the gift of prophesying, either one operating in another language other than your own.

 

[Grafted In]

I attended and AOG church for a number of years shortly after becoming born again.
A lady who's husband also attended regarly sat in silence most of the time, but during that time, nearly every service she stood up and spoke a message from God in English that every one understood.
Is this a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, because often times it seemed not to be.
But I was yet a babe in Christ.
Is this a common thing in Pentacostal churches?

 

[Paradise Haven]

In other words, if you understood the language spoken was an American Indian dialect, then you have two choices of gifts that could have happened at that moment, the gift of interpretation in relation to your prayer language, or the gift of prophesying, either one operating in another language other than your own.

I am not fluent in the language, if that's what you're thinking. My experience is similar to overhearing someone praying in tongues in Spanish and only understanding "si" and "gracias." You would recognize it's Spanish but not grasp the full meaning. In my personal prayer time, I felt led to start interceding, and suddenly, as Romans 8:26 says, the Spirit itself makes intercession, and I began speaking in a Native American language. Just knowing a few sounds or words to identify a language doesn't mean you understand everything being said. Moreover, interpretation and prophecy are edification gifts meant to elevate the spirit of the congregation. This experience happened to me privately at home.

It is important to distinguish between the different types of speaking in tongues mentioned in the New Testament. The Bible teaches that speaking in tongues serves different purposes and contexts. First, there is speaking in tongues as the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit, which is a private and personal experience for every believer baptized in the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 14:4). This experience is a sign of the New Birth.

Then there is the specific gift of tongues used in a public worship setting. This gift, meant for the edification of the church, typically occurs during quiet spiritual moments and requires interpretation. Not all believers will possess this particular gift, just as not all are apostles, prophets, or teachers. This public exercise of the gift of tongues, accompanied by interpretation, is different from the personal prayer language experienced by individuals when they receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[Paradise Haven]

I attended and AOG church for a number of years shortly after becoming born again.
A lady who's husband also attended regularly sat in silence most of the time, but during that time, nearly every service she stood up and spoke a message from God in English that every one understood.
Is this a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, because often times it seemed not to be.
But I was yet a babe in Christ.
Is this a common thing in Pentecostal churches?

If the Church is Spirit led this is a very common occurrence. The way we test the Spirit is against the word of God. Any revelation from God will not contradict His own Word.

 

[ARBITER01]

Moreover, interpretation and prophecy are edification gifts meant to elevate the spirit of the congregation. This experience happened to me privately at home.

Untrue. That is not their only function.

The gift of prophesying was one of the OT gifts that carried over into the new covenant. Prophets, kings, and priests could operate in that gift back then. That was used as their edification gift back those days. It can still have a personal function nowadays like it did back then.

GOD has witnessed all 3 of the vocal/inspiration gifts operating through me at various points in my life currently. When The Holy Spirit operated them through me, all 3 of them operated outside of any assembly/congregation. Each one of them can have a personal use.

It is important to distinguish between the different types of speaking in tongues mentioned in the New Testament. The Bible teaches that speaking in tongues serves different purposes and contexts. First, there is speaking in tongues as the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit, which is a private and personal experience for every believer baptized in the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 14:4). This experience is a sign of the New Birth.

Then there is the specific gift of tongues used in a public worship setting. This gift, meant for the edification of the church, typically occurs during quiet spiritual moments and requires interpretation. Not all believers will possess this particular gift, just as not all are apostles, prophets, or teachers. This public exercise of the gift of tongues, accompanied by interpretation, is different from the personal prayer language experienced by individuals when they receive the Holy Spirit.

The only difference is the use of the gift. One use is a personal prayer language, the other use is a ministry to the body of Christ.

Same gift, different uses.

 

[ARBITER01]

I attended and AOG church for a number of years shortly after becoming born again.
A lady who's husband also attended regarly sat in silence most of the time, but during that time, nearly every service she stood up and spoke a message from God in English that every one understood.
Is this a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, because often times it seemed not to be.
But I was yet a babe in Christ.
Is this a common thing in Pentacostal churches?

Since this was used before the body of Christ to be judged by all, and I'm assuming no one corrected her at any point, then probably it was the gift of prophesying.

 

[Paradise Haven]

Untrue. That is not their only function.

The gift of prophesying was one of the OT gifts that carried over into the new covenant. Prophets, kings, and priests could operate in that gift back then. That was used as their edification gift back those days. It can still have a personal function nowadays like it did back then.

GOD has witnessed all 3 of the vocal/inspiration gifts operating through me at various points in my life currently. When The Holy Spirit operated them through me, all 3 of them operated outside of any assembly/congregation. Each one of them can have a personal use.

These gifts are primarily meant (never meant only use) for the edification, exhortation, and comfort of the church body (1 Corinthians 14:3-5). You are correct in noting that these gifts can have personal applications. For instance, the gift of prophecy can indeed be used for personal edification, as seen in various instances in the Old Testament where prophets received personal revelations from God (e.g., 1 Samuel 3:1-10). Similarly, in the New Testament, the gift of prophecy and other spiritual gifts can operate outside of a congregational setting for personal guidance and encouragement. The Apostle Paul experienced personal revelations and prophetic guidance (Acts 16:9-10, 2 Corinthians 12:1-4). Therefore, while the primary function of these gifts is to build up the church, they can also have personal applications, aligning with the experiences shared by you. This balanced understanding respects both the congregational and personal uses of spiritual gifts.

The only difference is the use of the gift. One use is a personal prayer language, the other use is a ministry to the body of Christ.

I wasn't meaning a different tongue, I meant exactly what you said their different in their uses. Although it could be different languages.

Same gift, different uses.

Agree.

 

[Paradise Haven]

1 Corinthians 14:7, "And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?"

Paul uses the metaphor of musical instruments to illustrate the necessity of clarity and distinctiveness in spiritual gifts, particularly the gift of tongues. He emphasizes that just as a pipe or harp must produce distinct sounds to create a recognizable melody, so too must our communication within the church be clear and understandable to edify the body of Christ. The pipe and harp represent our spiritual expressions and gifts, which must be used in a way that builds up the congregation. This means that our use of spiritual gifts should be thoughtful and considerate, ensuring that our words and actions contribute to the collective understanding and spiritual growth of the church. The deeper spiritual implication is that God values order and intelligibility in worship, reflecting His desire for a unified and edified body of believers. In the New Covenant, this underscores the role of Jesus as our mediator, who brings clarity and direct access to God, transitioning from the obscure rituals of the Old Covenant to the clear revelation of God's will through His Spirit in us. Thus, this passage calls us to be mindful of how we exercise our gifts, ensuring they serve to strengthen and unify the church, reflecting the harmonious and purposeful nature of God's redemptive plan.

1 Corinthians 14:8, "For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?"

Paul uses the trumpet as a vivid symbol to convey a crucial message about clarity and purpose in communication. In the ancient world, a trumpet was used to signal various commands and warnings, especially in the context of battle. If the sound of the trumpet was unclear or ambiguous, soldiers would be confused and unprepared, jeopardizing their readiness and effectiveness. This imagery emphasizes the importance of clear, coherent communication within the body of Christ. Just as a confused trumpet signal could lead to disaster in battle, unclear or incoherent spiritual messages can hinder the edification and unity of the church.

1 Corinthians 14:9, "So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air."

Paul emphasizes the importance of clarity in communication, particularly in the context of spiritual gifts. This passage highlights that effective communication, whether in prophecy or speaking in tongues, must be intelligible to be meaningful. The "tongue" represents the expression of divine messages or spiritual insights, while "words easy to be understood" refers to the necessity for these expressions to be comprehensible and relevant to the listeners. If the message is not clear, it risks becoming ineffective, akin to "speaking into the air"—a metaphor for words that dissipate without impact. This underscores the principle that spiritual gifts, such as prophecy, should be used in a way that builds up and edifies the body of Christ, ensuring that the message conveyed contributes to the spiritual growth and understanding of the congregation. By aligning with this principle, the gifts serve their intended purpose of edification and mutual benefit within the community of believers.

1 Corinthians 14:10, "There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification."

This verse underscores the profound principle that every form of communication, whether in the natural or spiritual realm, carries meaning and purpose. This can be understood as a reflection of the divine order and intention in God’s creation and revelation. Just as various voices and languages have distinct meanings and functions in the world, so too do the diverse spiritual gifts, including tongues and prophecy, serve specific roles within the body of Christ.

This passage emphasizes the necessity for clarity and discernment in the exercise of spiritual gifts within the church. The diversity of voices—each with its own significance—reminds us that God communicates through various means to address different needs and situations. When exercising spiritual gifts, it is essential that these communications are interpreted and understood correctly, ensuring they contribute to the edification of the church.

 

[ARBITER01]

These gifts are primarily meant (never meant only use) for the edification, exhortation, and comfort of the church body (1 Corinthians 14:3-5). You are correct in noting that these gifts can have personal applications. For instance, the gift of prophecy can indeed be used for personal edification, as seen in various instances in the Old Testament where prophets received personal revelations from God (e.g., 1 Samuel 3:1-10). Similarly, in the New Testament, the gift of prophecy and other spiritual gifts can operate outside of a congregational setting for personal guidance and encouragement. The Apostle Paul experienced personal revelations and prophetic guidance (Acts 16:9-10, 2 Corinthians 12:1-4). Therefore, while the primary function of these gifts is to build up the church, they can also have personal applications, aligning with the experiences shared by you. This balanced understanding respects both the congregational and personal uses of spiritual gifts.

I think the incorrect personal use of some of these gifts has caused many problems over the years. The person that tries to wrongly prophesy by their own human spirit, the preacher that blurts out his prayer tongue in the pulpit for more effect, etc.

To the immature in Christ, they think The Holy Spirit is speaking, when in fact it's just the person.

I wasn't meaning a different tongue, I meant exactly what you said their different in their uses. Although it could be different languages.

Agree.

True, our prayer tongue can change somewhat.

 

[Paradise Haven]

I think the incorrect personal use of some of these gifts has caused many problems over the years. The person that tries to wrongly prophesy by their own human spirit

You mean like this guy.

 

[ARBITER01]

You mean like this guy.

That's one example of many that can be found.

So many people want to call themselves prophets, but none of them operate in power like Jesus did.

 

[tturt]

There is an expectation of interpretation as expressed in I Cor 14:27 as posted. Then the next verse is "But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God."( I Cor 14::28).

From your perspective, how was Kenneth Hagin in error?

 

[Paradise Haven]

There is an expectation of interpretation as expressed in I Cor 14:27 as posted. Then the next verse is "But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God."( I Cor 14::28).

From your perspective, how was Kenneth Hagin in error?

Here are a few reasons:

Kenneth Hagin's practices often involved spontaneous and unregulated speaking in tongues, which can be seen as contradicting Paul's instructions in 1 Corinthians 14. Paul emphasizes that speaking in tongues in a congregational setting should be orderly and accompanied by interpretation to ensure the church is edified. Hagin's approach might lead to disorder and confusion, which undermines the edifying purpose of the gift.

Hagin placed significant emphasis on personal spiritual experiences, sometimes prioritizing them over scriptural teachings. This can lead to subjective interpretations and practices that may not align with biblical guidelines. For example, the experience of speaking in tongues might be elevated above its intended purpose of edification and communication with God.

Hagin's theology, particularly his teachings on faith and prosperity, often intersects with his views on spiritual gifts. Critics argue that his "Word of Faith" movement tends to promote a form of spiritual elitism, where the manifestation of certain gifts, like speaking in tongues, is seen as a sign of higher spiritual status. This can create divisions within the church and detract from the unity and humility emphasized in the New Testament.

Hagin's ministry and those influenced by his teachings may lack proper accountability structures. This can lead to abuses and excesses in the practice of spiritual gifts, including speaking in tongues. Without proper oversight and adherence to scriptural guidelines, these practices can become self-serving rather than edifying to the body of Christ.

 

[ARBITER01]

Here are a few reasons:

Kenneth Hagin's practices often involved spontaneous and unregulated speaking in tongues, which can be seen as contradicting Paul's instructions in 1 Corinthians 14. Paul emphasizes that speaking in tongues in a congregational setting should be orderly and accompanied by interpretation to ensure the church is edified. Hagin's approach might lead to disorder and confusion, which undermines the edifying purpose of the gift.

Hagin placed significant emphasis on personal spiritual experiences, sometimes prioritizing them over scriptural teachings. This can lead to subjective interpretations and practices that may not align with biblical guidelines. For example, the experience of speaking in tongues might be elevated above its intended purpose of edification and communication with God.

Hagin's theology, particularly his teachings on faith and prosperity, often intersects with his views on spiritual gifts. Critics argue that his "Word of Faith" movement tends to promote a form of spiritual elitism, where the manifestation of certain gifts, like speaking in tongues, is seen as a sign of higher spiritual status. This can create divisions within the church and detract from the unity and humility emphasized in the New Testament.

Hagin's ministry and those influenced by his teachings may lack proper accountability structures. This can lead to abuses and excesses in the practice of spiritual gifts, including speaking in tongues. Without proper oversight and adherence to scriptural guidelines, these practices can become self-serving rather than edifying to the body of Christ.

Have you read any of his teaching materials?

 

[Paradise Haven]

1 Corinthians 14:11, "Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me."

Paul addresses the significance of understanding and communication within the body of Christ. The "voice" represents the divine message and teachings intended for the edification of believers. This emphasizes the necessity of clarity and mutual comprehension in sharing the gospel. If the meaning of the message is not understood, it creates a barrier, akin to the relationship between a barbarian and a native speaker, where the message becomes incomprehensible and thus ineffective. This underscores the role of Jesus as our mediator, bridging the gap between humanity and God, ensuring that the divine message is conveyed in a manner that transforms lives. As believers, we are called to ensure our spiritual expressions are understandable and edifying, fostering unity and growth within the church.

1 Corinthians 14:12, "Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church,"

Highlights the importance of spiritual gifts within the body of Christ. Spiritual gifts represent the diverse ways in which the Holy Spirit manifests in believers to strengthen and build up the church. The implication here is that while the Corinthians were eager for spiritual gifts, their focus should be on using these gifts for the edification of the entire church rather than for personal gain or display. This aligns with the New Covenant promise where believers are called to serve one another in love, reflecting the sacrificial nature of Christ. Jesus, as our mediator, exemplified servanthood and selflessness, emphasizing the need for believers to use their gifts to promote unity and growth within the church. The death and resurrection of Christ marked the transition from the Old Covenant, characterized by the law, to the New Covenant, defined by grace and the active work of the Holy Spirit. Thus, excelling in spiritual gifts involves understanding their purpose in the context of edifying the body, thereby fulfilling the greater mission of spreading the gospel and nurturing faith within the community. This pursuit not only honors God but also strengthens the believers' relationship with Him, ensuring that the church remains a vibrant witness of God's love and power.


1 Corinthians 14:13, "Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret."

This passage underscores the importance of understanding and edification within the body of Christ. The act of speaking in tongues represents the deep, intimate communication between the believer's spirit and God, facilitated by the Holy Spirit. However, without interpretation, this divine dialogue remains hidden, limiting its practical benefit to the church community. Paul instructs believers to seek interpretation to ensure that the spiritual insights and messages received are shared and understood, thereby strengthening the faith and knowledge of all present. Believers are both a recipient and a conduit of God's revelation. By praying for interpretation, believers fulfill their role as mediators of God's truth, echoing Christ's ministry and fostering a more profound collective experience of God's presence and guidance.

 

[Paradise Haven]

Have you read any of his teaching materials?

The Midas touch

His prosperity gospel:

Focus on Materialism: Jesus and the apostles often warned against the dangers of wealth (Matthew 6:19-21, 1 Timothy 6:9-10). The prosperity gospel can shift focus from spiritual growth to material gain.

Suffering and Sacrifice: The Bible also emphasizes the role of suffering in the Christian life (John 16:33, 2 Timothy 3:12). The prosperity message may downplay the significance of trials and the biblical call to take up one's cross (Matthew 16:24).

Eternal Perspective: The Bible prioritizes eternal rewards over earthly ones (Matthew 6:19-21, Colossians 3:1-2). The prosperity gospel might lead believers to focus more on temporary, worldly success rather than eternal spiritual outcomes.

 

[ARBITER01]

The Midas touch

His prosperity gospel:

Focus on Materialism: Jesus and the apostles often warned against the dangers of wealth (Matthew 6:19-21, 1 Timothy 6:9-10). The prosperity gospel can shift focus from spiritual growth to material gain.

Suffering and Sacrifice: The Bible also emphasizes the role of suffering in the Christian life (John 16:33, 2 Timothy 3:12). The prosperity message may downplay the significance of trials and the biblical call to take up one's cross (Matthew 16:24).

Eternal Perspective: The Bible prioritizes eternal rewards over earthly ones (Matthew 6:19-21, Colossians 3:1-2). The prosperity gospel might lead believers to focus more on temporary, worldly success rather than eternal spiritual outcomes.

I mean his teaching material, like books and pamphlets on the gifts and ministries of The Holy Spirit, they are very good.

 

[Paradise Haven]

I mean his teaching material, like books and pamphlets on the gifts and ministries of The Holy Spirit, they are very good.

I don't doubt the man knows the word of God. His interpretation can sometimes skew from orthodox christianity.

 

[ARBITER01]

I don't doubt the man knows the word of God. His interpretation can sometimes skew from orthodox christianity.

I think his actions did.

I come from an AOG Pentecostal denomination. We definitely had some outlandish folks in our midst at times.

Everything is about growth and maturity though. The people who continue to do such things are in a rut. They are not growing nor are they really reaching for GOD, they are just playing church and allowing the more soulical and fleshly things to manifest.

To really experience the power/love of GOD is beyond any of that. They don't know Him on that level, hence why they are just playing around like children at times.

Anyways, Hagin's material is actually very good. There are some aspects about the gifts that he talks about that are thought provoking in his books, especially his material on the ministries of The Holy Spirit.

 

[Paradise Haven]

1 Corinthians 14 taking a little longer than expected. I am on multiple christian forums and many many people. I want to do an exposition of the armour of God from Ephesians next.