UMC General Conference 2024 Results

[RileyG]

My understanding is that they were almost unanimously on the traditional side of every vote, but I wasn't following the conference closely enough to look at individual votes. Some of the African delegates released a statement after the conference expressing their disappointment both with the results of the conference and with the mishandling of African delegates' correspondence prior to the conference, which resulted in about a quarter of would-be delegates being unable to get visas in time to travel to the US.

I can't say I'm surprised that African Methodists would be more traditional with views on marriage and sexuality.

 

[RileyG]

My prayers are with the Methodists. May God lead you into the future

 

[jas3]

I can't say I'm surprised that African Methodists would be more traditional with views on marriage and sexuality.

That is a big part of why the liberals who gained control at the General Conference deleted the disaffiliation section; if disaffiliation were allowed, the UMC would lose just about all of its African membership. Their plan seems to be to pursue a policy of "regionalization," where the Africans could uphold the biblical definition of marriage and the Americans could change the definition.

No matter what ends up happening with the churches that decide to leave at this point, those people will leave, with or without their buildings. I doubt regionalization will be a tenable solution long-term.

 

[iarwain]

A summary of the summary: the Book of Discipline was modified to remove not only the prohibition on pastors living homosexual lifestyles, but on celibacy outside of marriage as well. Pastors can officiate same-sex unions ("weddings") and can do so in the church building. Church funds can be used to promote the acceptance of homosexuality, and can not be used against the promotion of it. The pathway for individual churches to disaffiliate from the denomination was removed.

I heard they also decided not to use any gender specific descriptions of God (such as Father), and other woke ideas: People at the conference had to identify their pronouns, for instance. I'm not a Methodist, but as a Christian I find this heartbreaking.

 

[jas3]

I heard they also decided not to use any gender specific descriptions of God (such as Father), and other woke ideas: People at the conference had to identify their pronouns, for instance. I'm not a Methodist, but as a Christian I find this heartbreaking.

I hadn't heard that, but it wouldn't surprise me. The 1989 hymnal's psalter (roughly the second half of the book containing psalms to be read or sung) removed most references to God as "He," instead repeating "God" where a pronoun would normally be used. It also removed the generic third person "he," so for example "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord" became "blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord." It still refers to the Father as Father, but nearly all pronouns were removed.

I do think they'll stop short of changing references to God the Father as "Father." That would require abandonment of the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed, and the UMC would cease to be viewed as a Christian denomination by even other mainline Protestant denominations.

 

[hedrick]

That is a big part of why the liberals who gained control at the General Conference deleted the disaffiliation section; if disaffiliation were allowed, the UMC would lose just about all of its African membership. Their plan seems to be to pursue a policy of "regionalization," where the Africans could uphold the biblical definition of marriage and the Americans could change the definition.

No matter what ends up happening with the churches that decide to leave at this point, those people will leave, with or without their buildings. I doubt regionalization will be a tenable solution long-term

It doesn't appear that all Africans disagree with the new direction. With votes of 75% or 80%, there were clearly African delegations voting for the changes. There's a split among Africans. Some will leave. Some are OK with the new direction.

This surprised me. I expected the votes to be close, because I thought almost all Africans to be opposed. I was wrong.

I doubt regionalization will be a problem, because it seems clear that conferences that can't live with allowing gay people are going to leave. It's probably true that regionalization was intended to let the US have different policies on LGBT than other parts of the world. But that split turned out not to be as serious as I had expected. The more important role is going to be to let the General Conference deal with international issues, and not have to spend so much time on the US.

We'll know for sure as the conferences vote.

 

[The Liturgist]

I do think they'll stop short of changing references to God the Father as "Father." That would require abandonment of the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed, and the UMC would cease to be viewed as a Christian denomination by even other mainline Protestant denominations.

A large number of left wing Methodist elders are actively advocating for them to remove the creeds officially, with Rev. Jeremy Smith, owner of the aptly named blog “Hacking Christianity” falsely claiming that John Wesley thought creeds were “weaksauce.”

 

[jas3]

A large number of left wing Methodist elders are actively advocating for them to remove the creeds officially, with Rev. Jeremy Smith, owner of the aptly named blog “Hacking Christianity” falsely claiming that John Wesley thought creeds were “weaksauce.”

I have to wonder if people like that actually believe what they're saying - either they haven't read any of John Wesley's writings or they're intentionally distorting them, and I'm not sure which is worse.

 

[hedrick]

A large number of left wing Methodist elders are actively advocating for them to remove the creeds officially, with Rev. Jeremy Smith, owner of the aptly named blog “Hacking Christianity” falsely claiming that John Wesley thought creeds were “weaksauce.”

remove the creeds from what? Wesley already removed them from the Articles of Religion. If you compare the Anglican and Methodist versions, you'll see that the second "Of the Creeds" is not present in the Methodist version.

 

[The Liturgist]

remove the creeds from what? Wesley already removed them from the Articles of Religion. If you compare the Anglican and Methodist versions, you'll see that the second "Of the Creeds" is not present in the Methodist version.

John Wesley included the Apostles’ Creed in all services in the Sunday Service Book for the Methodists in North America, and the Nicene Creed and other creeds are present in the 1964 and 1989 UMC Book of Worship.

Also, there is the fact that John Wesley was an Anglican priest, and therefore obviously agreed with all of the creeds as it was a condition of his employment. The twenty five articles he included in the Sunday Service Book should be seen as those points he felt most needed to be stressed to the North Americans in the rugged era of the immediate postwar independence, when conditions in the US in many respects lacked the comfort and conveniences, such as the good Roman roads, associated with Europe.

 

[hedrick]

John Wesley included the Apostles’ Creed in all services in the Sunday Service Book for the Methodists in North America, and the Nicene Creed and other creeds are present in the 1964 and 1989 UMC Book of Worship.

Also, there is the fact that John Wesley was an Anglican priest, and therefore obviously agreed with all of the creeds as it was a condition of his employment. The twenty five articles he included in the Sunday Service Book should be seen as those points he felt most needed to be stressed to the North Americans in the rugged era of the immediate postwar independence, when conditions in the US in many respects lacked the comfort and conveniences, such as the good Roman roads, associated with Europe.

The claim was the people wanted to remove the creeds. From what do you believe they want to remove them? Using them in a service has always been optional, since there aren't mandated orders of service. When I was in a Merthodist church the 1960s they weren't normally said. The article by Jeremy Smith indicated he didn't want to use them in a service. As far as I can see, that's a decision a pastor can make.

 

[iarwain]

I doubt regionalization will be a problem, because it seems clear that conferences that can't live with allowing gay people are going to leave.

I think saying they "can't live with allowing gay people" is a mischaracterization. I haven't heard anyone saying a gay person shouldn't be allowed into a church - that would clearly be wrong. It's more that the church is endorsing homosexuality and other LGBTQ values, which is anti-biblical.

 

[The Liturgist]

From what do you believe they want to remove them?

I believe its clear that Rev. Jeremy Smith wants them removed from whatever will replace the Book of Worship.

I would also note that the Sunday Service Book (John Wesley’s BCP edition) contained nothing to suggest its use was optional, and one of the traditionally African American Methodist denominations, either the AME or the AME Zion church, has a version of it they continue to use. There was also a version of it used by the Methodist Episcopal Church, South in the mid 19th century, and the British Methodists were still using it in 1900.

Additionally, John Wesley wanted Methodists to fast on Wednesdays and Fridays in accordance with ancient church tradition and for the Litany to be served on those days. Epworth Chapel on the Green in Boise, Idaho, comes very close to this with a BCP-style Sunday liturgy and evening prayer on Thursdays.

 

[SWIll]

Saw this comimg five years ago. My wife and I left and joined an SBA plant in town. Still lots of friends there. They are stuck with the new situation.