Trump Ends Fight Against ISIS

[Nithavela]

Without mentioning the bad orange man, can anyone who believes we should stay explain to what end? For how long? What will end us being there? How much more time? How many more lives of American soldiers? How much more US tax dollars? Please explain how this realistically ends if we don't pull out, and why haven't these things to end it haven't happened yet (after all these years, lives, and billions)?

You shouldn't stay anymore. Your influence has been lost, your guys can only watch from the sidelines now.

Besides, they will be needed to defend saudi arabia.

 

[mark46]

The argument is a commitment to stability as is the case of the role of our troops in South Korea and Japan.

Without mentioning the bad orange man, can anyone who believes we should stay explain to what end? For how long? What will end us being there? How much more time? How many more lives of American soldiers? How much more US tax dollars? Please explain how this realistically ends if we don't pull out, and why haven't these things to end it haven't happened yet (after all these years, lives, and billions)?

 

[mark46]

I believe that it delusional (no personal offense meant) to believe the 100 special forces could have stopped Turkey's invasion.

.

Trump is accountable for that decision.

 

[Nithavela]

I believe that it delusional (no personal offense meant) to believe the 100 special forces could have stopped Turkey's invasion.

If they weren't an important piece to remove, Erdogan wouldn't have asked for them to be removed.

 

[abysmul]

The argument is a commitment to stability as is the case of the role of our troops in South Korea and Japan.

I don't think that's a very good comparison. When was the last combat deaths in South Korea and Japan?

Is that argument that Syria is stable?

 

[mark46]

The US cannot afford to have influence in Syria. There are 3 powers with a much stronger reason for commitments: Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia and Assad himself. Our addition to the mix adds little, certainly little stability.

You shouldn't stay anymore. Your influence has been lost, your guys can only watch from the sidelines now.

Besides, they will be needed to defend saudi arabia.

 

[Speedwell]

If they weren't an important piece to remove, Erdogan wouldn't have asked for them to be removed.

Just like a pawn can sometimes block a more powerful piece until other moves can be worked out.

 

[wing2000]

I believe that it delusional (no personal offense meant) to believe the 100 special forces could have stopped Turkey's invasion.

Physically stop? Of course not Mark.

We can only speculate what Trump told the Turkish President. But I think we can be sure it was not the following:

"If you invade Syria, you will face serious consequences to include cancellation of all arms sales and the US will lead an effort to kick Turkey out of NATO."

 

[mark46]

Turkey didn't want to kill troops of a NATO ally.

If they weren't an important piece to remove, Erdogan wouldn't have asked for them to be removed.

 

[mark46]

That threat does NOT require the US to have troops on the ground.

Physically stop? Of course not Mark.

We can only speculate what Trump told the Turkish President. But I think we can be sure it was not the following:

"If you invade Syria, you will face serious consequences to include cancellation of all arms sales and the US will lead an effort to kick Turkey out of NATO.

 

[wing2000]

That threat does NOT require the US to have troops on the ground.

Killing US troops would have certainly increased the political risk for Turkey.

 

[mark46]

As an aside, since this is a political sub-board, let me reduce this to politics. I believe that Trump's pulling troops out of Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq will be a plus for him in the general election. As an aside, I don't think that the Democrats in 2020 will argue that we should have more troops in the Middle East for another decade.

Physically stop? Of course not Mark.

We can only speculate what Trump told the Turkish President. But I think we can be sure it was not the following:

"If you invade Syria, you will face serious consequences to include cancellation of all arms sales and the US will lead an effort to kick Turkey out of NATO."

 

[Speedwell]

I don't think that's a very good comparison. When was the last combat deaths in South Korea and Japan?

Is that argument that Syria is stable?

No, it is not, and will not be in the foreseeable future. Our force, small as it was, was at least temporarily blocking a Turkish invasion. Removing it unilaterally and without so much as advance notice--even to the Pentagon--was a rash thing to do. Don't be sucked in by the Right's narrative that the only alternates were pulling out in the way Trump did (and demanding Turkey not invade after the fact) or leaving them there forever.

 

[mark46]

Yes, but Turkey has invaded (fought its terrorist enemy, in their view) and has warned the US with regards to their 1000 troops. I suppose that the US could bring this issue to NATO. I would think that Turkey has a reasonable argument that the Kurds are its enemy and that they have been fighting against them for 2 or 3 decades.

Killing US troops would have certainly increased the political risk for Turkey.

 

[Speedwell]

As an aside, since this is a political sub-board, let me reduce this to politics. I believe that Trump's pulling troops out of Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq will be a plus for him in the general election. As an aside, I don't think that the Democrats in 2020 will argue that we should have more troops in the Middle East for another decade.

Are they even arguing that now?

 

[mark46]

Trump should have given notice of his announcement. However, this is hardly a surprise to the Pentagon. Turkey has been threatening this for years, and has discussed this with Trump on other phone calls.

No, it is not, and will not be in the foreseeable future. Our force, small as it was, was at least temporarily blocking a Turkish invasion. Removing it unilaterally and without so much as advance notice--even to the Pentagon--was a rash thing to do. Don't be sucked in by the Right's narrative that the only alternates were pulling out in the way Trump did (and demanding Turkey not invade after the fact) or leaving them there forever.

 

[abysmul]

No, it is not, and will not be in the foreseeable future. Our force, small as it was, was at least temporarily blocking a Turkish invasion. Removing it unilaterally and without so much as advance notice--even to the Pentagon--was a rash thing to do. Don't be sucked in by the Right's narrative that the only alternates were pulling out in the way Trump did (and demanding Turkey not invade after the fact) or leaving them there forever.

But we were never pulling out were we? Show me what specific conditions would have to be met to pull out? When was this region last stable?

 

[mark46]

I don't know. If not, the only real issue is the failure of Trump to discuss his announcement with the Pentagon and allies beforehand, including warning the Kurds. It is Trump's "policy" not to give advance warning of his actions,.

Are they even arguing that now?

 

[wing2000]

As an aside, since this is a political sub-board, let me reduce this to politics. I believe that Trump's pulling troops out of Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq will be a plus for him in the general election. As an aside, I don't think that the Democrats in 2020 will argue that we should have more troops in the Middle East for another decade.

I don't care what impact pulling 1000 troops out of Syria has on the American election - Mark.

I do care that this President made a decision that, as far as we can tell, was made without consulting anyone from State, Defense or anyone else who could lay out the consequences. On the other hand, maybe he did and decided his political promise overrode all concerns for human life.

And as for meeting his promise? When Trump announces we are pulling our military out of Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Afghanistan ....and actually does it in a responsible manner, then he can claim victory. To date what does he have to show?

1000 troops out of Syria (probably re-deployed in theatre)
MORE troops in Saudi Arabia
No progress in Iraq
And incompetent, failed negotiations with the Taliban.

 

[Nithavela]

Turkey didn't want to kill troops of a NATO ally.

Exactly. Had those soldiers stayed put, Turkey wouldn't have invaded in the first place. Now that the invasion is already underway, they can just wash their hands of any "accidental collateral damage" because they got the go-ahead.