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Thief Verses Disprove Rapture

Douggg

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These passage tells us of the martyrs who are “under the altar,” under Christ’s protection. These Christians did not arrive in heaven in a rapture, they came to heaven by martyrdom. You can’t have it both ways.
I agree that them in the fifth seal did not arrive in heaven by the rapture. It is their souls that are under the altar, i.e. their souls went to heaven as each one was martyred. They have some sort of spiritual body, not a redeemed body. Their redeemed body will happen in Revelation 20:4-6.

The great multitude in Revelation 7 in heaven also are Christians who died during the great tribulation. It does not indicate how they died. But they are not raptured saints either. Like the martyred great tribulation saints of the fifth seal, their souls will have some sort of spiritual body.

Different from any of those in the fifth seal and those of the great multitude (both coming out of the great tribulation) , the timing of the rapture/resurrection event will be before the great tribulation begins. The rapture/resurrection event results in eternal everlasting redeemed bodies for them in Christ who take part in it.

Those raptured/resurrected saints in their redeemed bodies will accompany Jesus in Revelation 19.
 
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Dale

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I agree that them in the fifth seal did not arrive in heaven by the rapture. It is their souls that are under the altar, i.e. their souls went to heaven as each one was martyred. They have some sort of spiritual body, not a redeemed body. Their redeemed body will happen in Revelation 20:4-6.

The great multitude in Revelation 7 in heaven also are Christians who died during the great tribulation. It does not indicate how they died. But they are not raptured saints either. Like the martyred great tribulation saints of the fifth seal, their souls will have some sort of spiritual body.

Different from any of those in the fifth seal and those of the great multitude (both coming out of the great tribulation) , the timing of the rapture/resurrection event will be before the great tribulation begins. The rapture/resurrection event results in eternal everlasting redeemed bodies for them in Christ who take part in it.

Those raptured/resurrected saints in their redeemed bodies will accompany Jesus in Revelation 19.

Doug: “They have some sort of spiritual body, not a redeemed body. Their redeemed body will happen in Revelation 20:4-6.”

Doug: “Like the martyred great tribulation saints of the fifth seal, their souls will have some sort of spiritual body.”

Doug: “The rapture/resurrection event results in eternal everlasting redeemed bodies for them in Christ who take part in it.”

Doug: “Those raptured/resurrected saints in their redeemed bodies will accompany Jesus in Revelation 19.”

If there is any such thing as a redeemed body versus a spiritual body, you don’t understand this and no mortal does.

I have noticed that Dispensationalists believe that Jesus had some special type of body when He after the resurrection. I don’t believe this, I think His body was the same as it was before.
 
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timothyu

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I have noticed that Dispensationalists believe that Jesus had some special type of body when He after the resurrection. I don’t believe this, I think His body was the same as it was before.
Entirely possible in this world we comprehend but of no purpose in any other which will replace it. It is no more rather than replenished
 
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Dan Perez

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The like a thief verses don't disprove the Rapture, but the like a thief phrase is used to emphasize the surprise happening of different events.

1. the Rapture event.
2. the beginning of the day of the Lord.
3. the appearance of the Son of Man in heaven (Revelation 16:15) that causes the reaction for the kings of the earth to gather their armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus and His armies of heaven.
And here is another view by the Apostle , for the Gentiles and are to

# 1 , First , in the Greek , there is NO such a word called RAPTURE and before you disagree , check VINE.S Greek

dictionary or see STRONGS CONCORDANCE .

Christs coming is only mentioned for the Body of Christ , in2 Thess 2 :1 where you see the word COMING // PAROUSA

meaning , even our gathering togethering unto Him .

# 2 And in Thess 2:: 3 No one should thoroughly deceive you in NOT // is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , do not

ever let one way BECAUSE , EXCEPT the DEPARTURE should come FIRST // PROTOS , and the man of sin

should be reveled

the son of destruction , .

# 3 And verse 2 is why I am PRE- MILL , and a DISPENSAIONALIST .

# 4 And there is another verse in 1 THESS 4:17 CAUGHT UP // HARPAZO is in the FUTURE TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE

in the PLURAL .

And there is one more in Gal 1:4 Greek word RESCUE //EXAIREO !! Any other RESURRECTIONS are for Israel !!

dan p
 
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Johan2222

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If anything disproved the rapture it would give cause for many to say that God was the author of confusion, for the rapture is revealed throughout scripture, including in the law, several times, and which Paul certainly alluded to here;

Colossians 2:14-17 KJV
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; [15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. [16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: [17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The handwriting of ordinances that was against us and which was contrary to us is the law which deals with meat and drink and holy days and new moons and Sabbath days and Paul says the law is prophetic; Which are a shadow of things to come;

Here is one of the several foreshadowing prophecies of the rapture revealed in the law in chapter eight of Genesis.

The number 8 in scripture represents (amongst other things) “new beginnings” and the prophecy of Christ’s first advent is revealed in the first occurrence of double eight in Genesis, Noah being man’s first new beginning, (Genesis 8.1) and Christ being the second.

Genesis 8:8

[8] Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground; [9] But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.

The first sending of the dove (the symbol of the Holy Spirit which revealed Christ) which is sent forth from the ark in Genesis 8.8, she finds no rest for the sole of her foot. SINGULAR.

The first time Christ is sent forth from the ark of heaven He finds no rest for the sole of ONE foot.

One of the symptoms of a victim of crucifixion was the heel of the lower foot (which stood directly on the nail) would turn black from the extreme bruising. Genesis 3.15.

The second time the dove is sent forth she returns to the ark with an olive leaf in her mouth.

The second time Christ is sent forth from heaven He returns to the ark of heaven with the church (His bride). (1 Thessalonians 4.16) The olive tree in scripture is a symbol of the church.

Only one leaf of the tree is carried back to the ark.

Matthew 7:14 NKJV
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

The third time the dove is sent forth from the ark she does not return to Noah.

The third time Christ is sent forth from the ark of heaven he does not return to God but remains and rules on earth for a thousand years.

Isaiah 46:10 KJV
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

The rapture is a certainty, revealed in the law many times in many different scriptures. God is not the author of confusion as you believe.
 
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Johan2222

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Let me give you another reason why a rapture separate from the Second Coming cannot be reconciled with the Bible. According to Dispensationalists/Rapturists, Jesus takes His followers, Christians, to heaven while the Antichrist wreaks havoc on earth. Years later, Jesus returns to judge the world. Is this the right order of events?

Take a look at the Parable of the Wheat and Tares, or as later translations call it, the Parable of the Wheat and Weeds.

Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is
like a man who sowed good seed in his field.
But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed
weeds among the wheat, and went away.
When the wheat sprouted and formed ears, then the weeds
also appeared.
“The owner’s servants came to him and said, `Sir, didn’t you
sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come
from?’
“`An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him,
`Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
“`No,’ he answered, `because while you are pulling the
weeds, you may root up the wheat with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will
tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in

bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into
my barn.’“

Matthew 13:24-30 NIV

In the Parable of the Wheat and Weeds, those who are lost are gathered, tied and burned first. After that has been done, God’s angels gather the wheat, which represents the saved, the Christians. Dispensationalists have the order of events backwards.
Read it again carefully and see if you can discern your error.

First collect the weeds and tie them in
bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into
my barn.’“
 
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