The will of the Father what is it?

[Neostarwcc]

In Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus talks about the will of the Father. There is only one other place in the Bible where Jesus talks about the will of the Father and that is John 6:37-40.

In John 6:37-40 we learn that not one of God's sheep will be lost and that the Father's will is that all who truly believe in Jesus will be saved.

Now I've heard of many wills of the Father from preachers and youtubers and across my scripture studies on the internet. It's very popular in these circles to make up something that is meant here and almost every preacher and person I've come across almost never talks about John 6:37-40 as the definitive proof text as to just what Matthew 7:21-23 means. Why is that? I mean, it couldnt be any clearer the passage means just what Jesus has said from the beginning. That there are sheep and there are goats. The sheep are forever saved the goats are not.

So why doesn't virtually anyone go by what Jesus says in John 6:37-40? Even Paul Washer teaches something different in his sermons. I'm not calling these people heretics or false prophets. I'm just wondering why virtually nobody teaches people what scripture says about the Will of the Father. Why does almost everyone talk about something completely different. I mean the will of the Father is right there in black and white for everyone to see. Everyone who is in the book of life that was written before the foundation of the world will be saved. EVERYONE. Everyone that is not in the book Jesus will deny on the day of Judgemenr. Its very simple. The Bible isn't cryptic and Jesus did not leave us with no word of God to go with.

So why do we all come up with our own interpretations of scripture and call some of the saved not saved? Or call some of the lost saved? It makes no sense. It just doesnt.

 

[PloverWing]

I'm currently reading through the Bible, with a focus on discerning what, exactly, the Bible says about the will of God regarding salvation, so I'll have a better answer for you in a few months. But here are some preliminary thoughts.

1) These aren't the only places that Jesus talks about the will of the Father. Two others that come to mind are Gethsemane and the Lord's Prayer. (Maybe there are others, but these are the ones I could think of quickly.) I don't think Gethsemane helps us much here, but the Lord's Prayer is relevant, praying that God's will be done on earth as in heaven. I'm reading N. T. Wright these days, and he interprets this as God's kingdom being established on earth, healing and restoring all that's messed up on earth. Salvation in this sense is much broader than just a tiny handful of people going to heaven when they die. I'm still mulling over what Wright says (is it too good to be true?), but he makes some good points.

2) In my younger, Baptist days, I frequently heard sermons that called the congregation to question their salvation. "Just because you've been baptized, and you go to church, and you believe in Jesus, and you do good works, well, that doesn't make you a True Christian." And then they go on to say that <sermon topic of the week> is the extra thing you have to do to be really really saved. I've grown to very much dislike sermons like this. I agree that it's possible to think you're doing God's will, but in fact you're screwing up. Jesus talks a lot about this. But using salvation as a weapon, like these preachers do, really erodes trust in God, and I don't think the Bible presents God as being this fragile.

I've only heard small snippets of Paul Washer's sermons, so I don't know for sure if he's one of these preachers. But if he is, I'd argue with him about this approach to preaching. Jesus talks about the shepherd searching for the sheep that wanders off; he doesn't describe the shepherd as kicking the wandering sheep off the cliff.

 

[Soyeong]

In Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus talks about the will of the Father. There is only one other place in the Bible where Jesus talks about the will of the Father and that is John 6:37-40.

In John 6:37-40 we learn that not one of God's sheep will be lost and that the Father's will is that all who truly believe in Jesus will be saved.

Now I've heard of many wills of the Father from preachers and youtubers and across my scripture studies on the internet. It's very popular in these circles to make up something that is meant here and almost every preacher and person I've come across almost never talks about John 6:37-40 as the definitive proof text as to just what Matthew 7:21-23 means. Why is that? I mean, it couldnt be any clearer the passage means just what Jesus has said from the beginning. That there are sheep and there are goats. The sheep are forever saved the goats are not.

So why doesn't virtually anyone go by what Jesus says in John 6:37-40? Even Paul Washer teaches something different in his sermons. I'm not calling these people heretics or false prophets. I'm just wondering why virtually nobody teaches people what scripture says about the Will of the Father. Why does almost everyone talk about something completely different. I mean the will of the Father is right there in black and white for everyone to see. Everyone who is in the book of life that was written before the foundation of the world will be saved. EVERYONE. Everyone that is not in the book Jesus will deny on the day of Judgemenr. Its very simple. The Bible isn't cryptic and Jesus did not leave us with no word of God to go with.

So why do we all come up with our own interpretations of scripture and call some of the saved not saved? Or call some of the lost saved? It makes no sense. It just doesnt.

In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus contrasted saying only those who do with will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of Heaven with saying that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so we don't need to look at any other verse in the Bible to determine that the will of the Father is to know Him and Jesus through obeying His law and it is straightforward that God has made His will known through what He has commanded.

For supporting verses, in Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to to walk in His way that he might know Him and Israel too, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life (John 17:3). Likewise in Psalms 40:8, it equates delighting in doing the Father's will with putting His law upon our hearts. In John 6:37-40, it is not saying anything different because His law is His instructions for how to believe in Jesus, or in other words, God's law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so the way to believe in the one who is the embodiment of God's word is by us embodying God's word through following his example. There are many verses like John 6:37-40 that say that believing in Jesus is the way to have eternal life and many verses like Luke 10:25-28 that say that obedience to God is the way to have eternal life, which is again because God has instructed us how to believe in Jesus.

 

[Strong in Him]

In Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus talks about the will of the Father. There is only one other place in the Bible where Jesus talks about the will of the Father and that is John 6:37-40.

In John 6:37-40 we learn that not one of God's sheep will be lost and that the Father's will is that all who truly believe in Jesus will be saved.

Now I've heard of many wills of the Father from preachers and youtubers and across my scripture studies on the internet. It's very popular in these circles to make up something that is meant here and almost every preacher and person I've come across almost never talks about John 6:37-40 as the definitive proof text as to just what Matthew 7:21-23 means.

I've been saying that for several years.

Why is that?

For most of my life people have been talking about God's will as being about what we DO - "is it God's will for you to have that job/marry that person/go to that church?" etc etc.
God's will is about being, imo.
It is God's will that we believe in Jesus, and those who do, become his children.
It is God will that we are holy, 1 Thessalonians 4:3.
It is God's will that we are joyful, pray at all times, give thanks in all circumstances, 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18.

So why doesn't virtually anyone go by what Jesus says in John 6:37-40? Even Paul Washer teaches something different in his sermons. I'm not calling these people heretics or false prophets. I'm just wondering why virtually nobody teaches people what scripture says about the Will of the Father.

Because we tend to think of the word "will", and the concept of what God wants, as being about doing. Sometimes it might be, James 4:15, but only, I suggest, for those who already are his children and belong to him.

It's a similar thing with the word "fruit" - people read in the NT that we are to bear fruit, and assume, believe or teach that that means we have to do lots of deeds and be successful. But the fruit that the Spirit produces is love, Joy, peace ........ not deeds, deeds, deeds.

 

[Neogaia777]

Beyond just simply believing in God and Jesus, etc, and having or exercising faith, etc, is seeking those things which God loves, and rejecting those things which God hates, and making those things a vital part of our inner most core being in our lives, so we can be much, much more like Jesus in our lives, and walk as He did, etc, and Apostles like James loves to remind us that this should show on the outside of us, or in our doings, if we have truly made this a vital part of our deepest innermost core being, etc.

In the parable about the sheep and the goats, it gives us some very specific things that we should be doing if we are his true sheep, or that we will not be doing if we are not any of his, etc, and the sheep were not keeping record or count, but were just naturally doing these things without thinking about it (or keeping record or count) because it was just a part of who they were in their innermost core being naturally, etc.

Paul also gives us a good list of the things God loves that we should seeking or thinking about also, "Whatsoever things are good, holy, pure, innocent, lovely, or of good report, or are holy or perfect, etc, etc, etc, and you can "fill in the blanks with the rest", etc, for these are the kinds of things we should be seeking or thinking about/upon a lot, or filling our hearts and minds with, and this will help us clear out the bad, and become more like what one of his true sheep should truly be like, etc.

You cannot clear out the bad by always thinking about or dwelling on your own will or the bad though always, but you must fill yourself with so much good, that there is just not any more headspace or heartspace left any more any longer for the bad, and any bad that tries to come in from the outside after that, automatically shoot down or reject at the onset with preferably some things that are good after that, and just don't ever let anymore bad in from the outside after that, or after your deepest most innermost being is clean, etc.

This will make you a whole heck of a lot closer to being like one his true sheep spoken of in that parable, etc, and it will be reflected in your doings or actions, and it will be 100% undeniable that you are, or have now truly become one of His true sheep, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Soyeong]

I've been saying that for several years.

For most of my life people have been talking about God's will as being about what we DO - "is it God's will for you to have that job/marry that person/go to that church?" etc etc.
God's will is about being, imo.

Do affirm or deny that it is God’s will for someone to do what He had instructed them to do?

It is God's will that we believe in Jesus, and those who do, become his children.

Do you affirm or deny that God can give instructions to teach how to believe in Jesus that we must choose to do in order to believe in him?

So you affirm or deny that someone can do things that show God that they believe in Jesus that distinguishes them from someone who does not?

It is God will that we are holy, 1 Thessalonians 4:3.
It is God's will that we are joyful, pray at all times, give thanks in all circumstances, 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18.

Being holy, being joyful, praying at all times, and giving thanks in all circumstances are all things that we do.

Because we tend to think of the word "will", and the concept of what God wants, as being about doing. Sometimes it might be, James 4:15, but only, I suggest, for those who already are his children and belong to him.

In 1 John 3:10, those who do not practice righteousness are not children of God, so it is based on what we do. Likewise, in Romans 8:4-14, those who are born again of the Spirit are contrasted with those have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God’s law. In Galatians 3:26-29, if we are in Christ, the we are children of Abraham, in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, and John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, the they would be doing the same works as him, so it is all connected with what we do.

It's a similar thing with the word "fruit" - people read in the NT that we are to bear fruit, and assume, believe or teach that that means we have to do lots of deeds and be successful. But the fruit that the Spirit produces is love, Joy, peace ........ not deeds, deeds, deeds

In Galatians 5:19-23, all of the works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are all things that someone can do and the same is true for all of the fruits of the Spirit.

 

[Strong in Him]

Do affirm or deny that it is God’s will for someone to do what He had instructed them to do?

If God instructs, or specifically calls, someone to do something, then of course that is his will.
But my experience has been that of people saying to me "you must find God's will for you," "you must find out if it's God's will for you to do this, or this." And that has caused anxiety in case I missed, or didn't see, it.
I think God cares far less about what we DO in his church and kingdom than who we are.

Do you affirm or deny that God can give instructions to teach how to believe in Jesus that we must choose to do in order to believe in him?

Jesus said that whoever came to him and believed in him would have eternal life.
The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus, Romans 6:23. All we have to DO to accept that gift, is to accept it. To accept that we aren't good enough to get to heaven on our own, that we are sinners and the wages of sin is death but that Jesus gave his life as a sacrifice for our sins.

So you affirm or deny that someone can do things that show God that they believe in Jesus that distinguishes them from someone who does not?

God knows our hearts - what's more he knows his sheep and calls them by name. He doesn't need us to DO anything to prove to him that we believe in Jesus.

Of course we WILL do things - we will want to do them out of love, obedience, gratitude etc. But someone who has received God's love, and the Gospel, does not need to prove that to God. We love because God first loved us, 1 John 4:19, and this is how people will know we belong to Jesus, if we show love, John 13:35

Being holy, being joyful, praying at all times, and giving thanks in all circumstances are all things that we do.

Being holy, joyful and thankful is also who we are to be.

In 1 John 3:10, those who do not practice righteousness are not children of God, so it is based on what we do.

Jesus became sin for us so that in him we may become the righteousness of God, 2 Corinthians 5:21.
OUR works do not make us righteous - Jesus' work on the cross, does.

When I say, "God's will is not so much about what we DO", I am thinking specifically of people who say/have said to me in the past "that action/career/church may not be God's will for you; you have to discover what is".
Was it God's will for me to go to teacher training college, even though I would give up after a year? When I got M.E. was that his way of telling me that I had missed his will by training to be a nurse, so he wasn't going to let me qualify? Was it his will for me to have worked in a bookshop?
How far do I take that?
Is it God's will for me to buy a blue skirt, a green skirt or a red dress? Is it his will that I buy a cheap pair of trousers and then give the rest of the money to the poor?

God says that whatever we work at, we should do it for him, Colossians 3:17.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

In Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus talks about the will of the Father. There is only one other place in the Bible where Jesus talks about the will of the Father and that is John 6:37-40.

In John 6:37-40 we learn that not one of God's sheep will be lost and that the Father's will is that all who truly believe in Jesus will be saved.

Now I've heard of many wills of the Father from preachers and youtubers and across my scripture studies on the internet. It's very popular in these circles to make up something that is meant here and almost every preacher and person I've come across almost never talks about John 6:37-40 as the definitive proof text as to just what Matthew 7:21-23 means. Why is that? I mean, it couldnt be any clearer the passage means just what Jesus has said from the beginning. That there are sheep and there are goats. The sheep are forever saved the goats are not.

So why doesn't virtually anyone go by what Jesus says in John 6:37-40? Even Paul Washer teaches something different in his sermons. I'm not calling these people heretics or false prophets. I'm just wondering why virtually nobody teaches people what scripture says about the Will of the Father. Why does almost everyone talk about something completely different. I mean the will of the Father is right there in black and white for everyone to see. Everyone who is in the book of life that was written before the foundation of the world will be saved. EVERYONE. Everyone that is not in the book Jesus will deny on the day of Judgemenr. Its very simple. The Bible isn't cryptic and Jesus did not leave us with no word of God to go with.

So why do we all come up with our own interpretations of scripture and call some of the saved not saved? Or call some of the lost saved? It makes no sense. It just doesnt.

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. (Romans 12:2)

 

[Maria Billingsley]

In Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus talks about the will of the Father. There is only one other place in the Bible where Jesus talks about the will of the Father and that is John 6:37-40.

In John 6:37-40 we learn that not one of God's sheep will be lost and that the Father's will is that all who truly believe in Jesus will be saved.

Now I've heard of many wills of the Father from preachers and youtubers and across my scripture studies on the internet. It's very popular in these circles to make up something that is meant here and almost every preacher and person I've come across almost never talks about John 6:37-40 as the definitive proof text as to just what Matthew 7:21-23 means. Why is that? I mean, it couldnt be any clearer the passage means just what Jesus has said from the beginning. That there are sheep and there are goats. The sheep are forever saved the goats are not.

So why doesn't virtually anyone go by what Jesus says in John 6:37-40? Even Paul Washer teaches something different in his sermons. I'm not calling these people heretics or false prophets. I'm just wondering why virtually nobody teaches people what scripture says about the Will of the Father. Why does almost everyone talk about something completely different. I mean the will of the Father is right there in black and white for everyone to see. Everyone who is in the book of life that was written before the foundation of the world will be saved. EVERYONE. Everyone that is not in the book Jesus will deny on the day of Judgemenr. Its very simple. The Bible isn't cryptic and Jesus did not leave us with no word of God to go with.

So why do we all come up with our own interpretations of scripture and call some of the saved not saved? Or call some of the lost saved? It makes no sense. It just doesnt.

Did you skip the part where names in the Book of life CAN get blotted out?

Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

This shows that all names have a chance " not" to be blotted . Everyone has an opportunity to know Him. This is truly the Fathers will that all come to know Him.

1 Timothy 2
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

[Soyeong]

If God instructs, or specifically calls, someone to do something, then of course that is his will.
But my experience has been that of people saying to me "you must find God's will for you," "you must find out if it's God's will for you to do this, or this." And that has caused anxiety in case I missed, or didn't see,

If you grant that doing what God has instructed is doing the will of the Father, then that is how Matthew 7:21-23 should be understood, especially it contrasts those who do the will of the Father with those who are workers of lawlessness. Doing the will of the Father might include things like whether it is His will to have that job/marry that person/go to that church and so forth, but I don't see anything in that passage as speaking about doing the will of the Father in that sense.

I think God cares far less about what we DO in his church and kingdom than who we are.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, so the Kingdom is about what we do, which is also about who we are because who we are is directly connected with what we choose to do.

Jesus said that whoever came to him and believed in him would have eternal life.
The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus, Romans 6:23. All we have to DO to accept that gift, is to accept it. To accept that we aren't good enough to get to heaven on our own, that we are sinners and the wages of sin is death but that Jesus gave his life as a sacrifice for our sins.

In Romans 6:19-23, we are no longer to present ourselves as slaves to impurity, lawlessness, and sin, but are now to present ourselves as slaves to God and to righteousness leading to sanctification, and the goal of sanctification is eternal life in Christ, which is the gift of God, so living in obedience to God's law is itself the content of God's gift of eternal life. In Romans 2:6-7, eternal life is given to those who persist in doing good. In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments. In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments. In Hebrews 5:9, Jesus has become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him. In Revelation 22:14, those who obeyed God commandments are given the right to eat from the Tree of Life. So these verses and others that show that obedience to God is the way to enter eternal life along with verses that say that believing in Jesus is the way to enter eternal life mean that God's commandments are His instructions for how to believe in Jesus, which are what we need to do in order to believe in him.

God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to rely on God is by relying on what He has instructed. Something that we do on our own does not rely on anyone else, so it is incorrect to think that relying on what God has instructed is about trying to get to heaven on our own. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works is the way to believe in what he accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).

God knows our hearts - what's more he knows his sheep and calls them by name. He doesn't need us to DO anything to prove to him that we believe in Jesus.

Of course we WILL do things - we will want to do them out of love, obedience, gratitude etc. But someone who has received God's love, and the Gospel, does not need to prove that to God. We love because God first loved us, 1 John 4:19, and this is how people will know we belong to Jesus, if we show love, John 13:35

Our actions flow from what is within our heart, so again there is a direct connection between what is within our hearts and what we do. It is not that our actions prove to God that we believe in Jesus, but that our actions are the way to believe in him.

Jesus became sin for us so that in him we may become the righteousness of God, 2 Corinthians 5:21.
OUR works do not make us righteous - Jesus' work on the cross, does.

To say that God is righteous is to say that he chooses to take actions that express righteousness. Jesus expressed the righteousness of God by living in obedience to God's law, so that is also the way that we come to live when we become the righteousness of God, though we do not earn our righteousness as the result of obeying it. God's law is His instructions for how to do what is righteous, not for how to become righteous as the result of obeying it. For example, God's law reveals that it is righteous to help the poor, but no amount of helping the poor will ever cause someone to become righteous because the one and only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophets is through faith in Christ (Romans 3:21-22). So when God declares us to be righteous by grace through faith He is declaring us to be someone who chooses to act in accordance with His righteousness in obedience to His law by grace through faith.

 

[Neostarwcc]

In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus contrasted saying only those who do with will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of Heaven with saying that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so we don't need to look at any other verse in the Bible to determine that the will of the Father is to know Him and Jesus through obeying His law and it is straightforward that God has made His will known through what He has commanded.

For supporting verses, in Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to to walk in His way that he might know Him and Israel too, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life (John 17:3). Likewise in Psalms 40:8, it equates delighting in doing the Father's will with putting His law upon our hearts. In John 6:37-40, it is not saying anything different because His law is His instructions for how to believe in Jesus, or in other words, God's law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so the way to believe in the one who is the embodiment of God's word is by us embodying God's word through following his example. There are many verses like John 6:37-40 that say that believing in Jesus is the way to have eternal life and many verses like Luke 10:25-28 that say that obedience to God is the way to have eternal life, which is again because God has instructed us how to believe in Jesus.

Right that is essentially what I was saying. Jesus was dividing the sheep and the goats just like he did in Matthew 27 (or is it 28? I forget.) There's also Jesus's beautiful comparison of the two in Chapter 7 verses 15-20.

A true sheep of God will walk the way Jesus walked and will not practice sin. In fact they will hate sin and what God hates and love what God loves. Which is why the Bible says biblical repentance is a sign of true salvation. Those who do not walk in the light like Jesus is in the light were never born again because the Holy Spirit regenerates the heart of stone into a heart of flesh. No regeneration no salvation. They will be turned away on the last day.

I mean you're right you can explain Matthew 7:21-23 with what is written and elsewhere in the bible afterall in mathhew 7:21-23 here he says in plain black and white in verse 23 depart from me you who practice lawlessness (sin).

I'm no Greek scholar but I'm also told that's what's meant in the Greek as well. Like, those who live as though I never gave them a command to obey. They're both saying the same thing but I was curious why Pastors don't go to John 6 to prove the text and instead sometimes invent what Jesus had said in that particular moment in time. I've heard various things besides the division of the sheep and the goats. I've heard works righteousness even though in verses 22-23 refute works righteousness. If these goats could be saved by their works all they would have to say on the last day is "I did this and that" instead of "You did this and that" and be Justified. But that is not why we are Justified.


Dunno just odd.

 

[Neostarwcc]

I'm currently reading through the Bible, with a focus on discerning what, exactly, the Bible says about the will of God regarding salvation, so I'll have a better answer for you in a few months. But here are some preliminary thoughts.

1) These aren't the only places that Jesus talks about the will of the Father. Two others that come to mind are Gethsemane and the Lord's Prayer. (Maybe there are others, but these are the ones I could think of quickly.) I don't think Gethsemane helps us much here, but the Lord's Prayer is relevant, praying that God's will be done on earth as in heaven. I'm reading N. T. Wright these days, and he interprets this as God's kingdom being established on earth, healing and restoring all that's messed up on earth. Salvation in this sense is much broader than just a tiny handful of people going to heaven when they die. I'm still mulling over what Wright says (is it too good to be true?), but he makes some good points.

2) In my younger, Baptist days, I frequently heard sermons that called the congregation to question their salvation. "Just because you've been baptized, and you go to church, and you believe in Jesus, and you do good works, well, that doesn't make you a True Christian." And then they go on to say that <sermon topic of the week> is the extra thing you have to do to be really really saved. I've grown to very much dislike sermons like this. I agree that it's possible to think you're doing God's will, but in fact you're screwing up. Jesus talks a lot about this. But using salvation as a weapon, like these preachers do, really erodes trust in God, and I don't think the Bible presents God as being this fragile.

I've only heard small snippets of Paul Washer's sermons, so I don't know for sure if he's one of these preachers. But if he is, I'd argue with him about this approach to preaching. Jesus talks about the shepherd searching for the sheep that wanders off; he doesn't describe the shepherd as kicking the wandering sheep off the cliff.

But the Lord's prayer just asks God for his will to be done it doesn't describe what his will is.

Actually, I might take that back because it does say later on "forgive us like we forgave those who trespassed against us", and "lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil."


So I guess in a way that describes God's will. Actually in Baptist churches they don't say "you're saved by faith alone but you have to do this and that" they say "you're saved by faith alone but a faith that is alone can save nobody and faith is never alone." James also says this point in Chapter 6 I believe.


Paul Washer is probably the toughest preacher who ever lived but he speaks the truth and isn't afraid of death. Imho all preachers should be like him. All preachers should stay with the word of God and declare what they word says even if it may make them unpopular. Every pastor should be against gay marriage, abortion, transgender "rights"; divorce, and everything else that the Bible says God abhors.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Beyond just simply believing in God and Jesus, etc, and having or exercising faith, etc, is seeking those things which God loves, and rejecting those things which God hates, and making those things a vital part of our inner most core being in our lives, so we can be much, much more like Jesus in our lives, and walk as He did, etc, and Apostles like James loves to remind us that this should show on the outside of us, or in our doings, if we have truly made this a vital part of our deepest innermost core being, etc.

In the parable about the sheep and the goats, it gives us some very specific things that we should be doing if we are his true sheep, or that we will not be doing if we are not any of his, etc, and the sheep were not keeping record or count, but were just naturally doing these things without thinking about it (or keeping record or count) because it was just a part of who they were in their innermost core being naturally, etc.

Paul also gives us a good list of the things God loves that we should seeking or thinking about also, "Whatsoever things are good, holy, pure, innocent, lovely, or of good report, or are holy or perfect, etc, etc, etc, and you can "fill in the blanks with the rest", etc, for these are the kinds of things we should be seeking or thinking about/upon a lot, or filling our hearts and minds with, and this will help us clear out the bad, and become more like what one of his true sheep should truly be like, etc.

You cannot clear out the bad by always thinking about or dwelling on your own will or the bad though always, but you must fill yourself with so much good, that there is just not any more headspace or heartspace left any more any longer for the bad, and any bad that tries to come in from the outside after that, automatically shoot down or reject at the onset with preferably some things that are good after that, and just don't ever let anymore bad in from the outside after that, or after your deepest most innermost being is clean, etc.

This will make you a whole heck of a lot closer to being like one his true sheep spoken of in that parable, etc, and it will be reflected in your doings or actions, and it will be 100% undeniable that you are, or have now truly become one of His true sheep, etc.

God Bless.

You are absolutely correct and i agree with mostly everything you said. You can know God's will by not examining John 6. It's throughout the Bible. But John 6 is the only place in scripture where Jesus basically uses the words "This is my Father's will for those who may have missed it the last time I talked about this." So I was wondering why preachers don't go to John 6 where Jesus repeats himself and basically said "if you didn't get the meaning of my warnings the last time here is the meaning in black and white so nobody can claim that I never revealed my Father's will." I think that's why we only find these statements of Jesus in John's gospel. John wanted to record the most important things that Jesus ever said.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Did you skip the part where names in the Book of life CAN get blotted out?

Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

This shows that all names have a chance " not" to be blotted . Everyone has an opportunity to know Him. This is truly the Fathers will that all come to know Him.

1 Timothy 2
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

That is not what Revelation 3:5 (and the rest of the Bible) says at all. Jesus is declaring his sheep to be eternally saved. He is saying "the one who conquers (read one of Johns 3 letters to learn what those who overcome means i forget exactly where he says that those who are born again have overcome the world) i will never blot thier name out of the book of life". In other words they belong to God forever because Jesus also says "I will confess them before my Father and his angels." This is an eternal confession. An eternal plan to save those that God means to save and all that God means to save, WILL be saved.

Notice he doesn't say in Rev 3:5 "Those who overcome will never be blotted but those who do not overcome will be blotted." No he says "those who overcome I will confess before my Father. Those who don't I will deny on the last day"

 

[Strong in Him]

If you grant that doing what God has instructed is doing the will of the Father, then that is how Matthew 7:21-23 should be understood,

The question is, though, what is the will of the Father?
God specifically called Moses, Deborah, David, Isaiah, Daniel etc etc to be prophets, judges or kings. That was his will - that those people lead/prophesy.
He doesn't necessarily call people to go to a certain church, work in a certain school or take a certain job. I am certain that if he did, there would be no unemployment amongst Christians, and no one whose job didn't work out.
I have come to believe that, far from finding the "right" job - that God wants you to have - he really wants his followers to be hs children, his witnesses and salt and light in their communities, whatever they happen to be doing.

Doing the will of the Father might include things like whether it is His will to have that job/marry that person/go to that church and so forth, but I don't see anything in that passage as speaking about doing the will of the Father in that sense.

Neither do I, but you'd be surprised how many people quote it in support of there being a special job that God wants you to do.

The will of the Father is that we believe in Jesus.
God spoke audibly from heaven 3x in Jesus' ministry. Two of those were his baptism and transfiguration - "this is my Son on whom my favour rests" and "this is my Son, listen to him". The 3rd occasion is in John 12:28, where God says he will glorify Jesus' name.
God's Son, Jesus, was God's plan to reconcile mankind to himself; forgive our sins, allow us to have fellowship with God and his children - of course God wanted, and wants, people to believe in, listen to and receive him. He wants people to know that his great love for them cost him his life.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand,

Yes, the Kingdom of God is whenever, and wherever, God is recognised as King.
No one can enter that kingdom - and will therefore not recognise Jesus as King - unless they have been born again by the Spirit, John 3:3.

so the Kingdom is about what we do, which is also about who we are because who we are is directly connected with what we choose to do.

What we do comes from who were are; we love because God loved us. We can only obey Jesus' command to love as he loves, if we have first received his love.
The Kingdom is not primarily, or entirely, about deeds - because you don't even have to be Christian to feed the hungry, care for the poor, heal the sick etc etc. Humanists believe that the human being is the most powerful and important being; i.e. no God, no life after death. Humanists can, and have, founded charities etc, all without reference to God. The same is true of Mormons, JWs, Muslims who don't accept that Jesus was who he said he was.

In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments.

Yes, and Jesus' NEW commandment was to love as he loves us.
Christ died for sinners - loved his enemies and gave his life for the ungodly. We can't love with that kind of divine, Agape love unless we have first received it and have it in our hearts.

God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to rely on God is by relying on what He has instructed.

Do you mean "law" as in 10 commandments, or "law" as in all the OT food and hygiene laws?
Because the latter were given to the Hebrew slaves who were rescued from slavery and death in Egypt, not to Gentiles.

Our actions flow from what is within our heart, so again there is a direct connection between what is within our hearts and what we do.

I didn't say otherwise.
We love because God first loved us. When someone has received Jesus, been born again and filled with his Spirit, they will want to go out and serve God, preach the Good News etc. Many, if not all, personal and church revivals have started when one person/a group of people have received the Spirit, or a new infilling of the Spirit, and gone out to serve. John Wesley was an Anglican clergyman, doing good works and preaching the faith. But at a Bible study at Aldersgate, he testified that his heart became "strangely warmed" and he felt that God DID love him - and he was on fire for God. His brother Charles, who had been healed of TB a few days earlier and received the Spirit, wrote 1000s of hymns and became one of the greatest hymnwriters. John Newton went from being an uncouth, drunken slave trader to campaigning for the abolition of slavery and writing one of the greatest hymns "amazing grace". Wilson Carlile was a materialistic non Christian until he met Jesus - then he became ordained and founded the Church Army, (like the Salvation Army but within the C of E).

To say that God is righteous is to say that he chooses to take actions that express righteousness. Jesus expressed the righteousness of God by living in obedience to God's law,

Jesus reconciled us to God by offering his life as a sacrifice for our sin; he died for sinners, Romans 5:8.
We are not saved by Jesus' life but by his death - he came to give his life as a ransom for many, Mark 10:45, to seek and save the lost, Luke 19:10, to pour out his blood for the forgiveness of sins, Matthew 26:28.
Yes, he DID many fantastic things - but if he had not died and been raised again, we would all still be lost in our sins.

Jesus, not God's law, is the only Way to the Father, John 14:6.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

That is not what Revelation 3:5 (and the rest of the Bible) says at all. Jesus is declaring his sheep to be eternally saved. He is saying "the one who conquers (read one of Johns 3 letters to learn what those who overcome means i forget exactly where he says that those who are born again have overcome the world) i will never blot thier name out of the book of life". In other words they belong to God forever because Jesus also says "I will confess them before my Father and his angels." This is an eternal confession. An eternal plan to save those that God means to save and all that God means to save, WILL be saved.

Notice he doesn't say in Rev 3:5 "Those who overcome will never be blotted but those who do not overcome will be blotted." No he says "those who overcome I will confess before my Father. Those who don't I will deny on the last day"

With all due respect, I am not a Calvinist so we have a different view of God's character. Be blessed.

 

[PloverWing]

But the Lord's prayer just asks God for his will to be done it doesn't describe what his will is.

Okay, true. The prayer is pretty brief. It says "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." So maybe we have to explore what Jesus said the kingdom was. And mostly, he cryptically tells stories: The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, a woman looking for a lost coin, a farmer sowing seed in a field, yeast in a lump of dough. Jesus isn't making it easy for us.

Paul Washer is probably the toughest preacher who ever lived but he speaks the truth and isn't afraid of death. Imho all preachers should be like him. All preachers should stay with the word of God and declare what they word says even if it may make them unpopular. Every pastor should be against gay marriage, abortion, transgender "rights"; divorce, and everything else that the Bible says God abhors.

I'll investigate Paul Washer a little more, and then maybe I can comment on him more knowledgeably. As to the last sentence: CF limits what I can say, but I'll note that some of these are things Christians disagree about. But maybe we can at least agree that every pastor should be against racism, exploitation of the poor, and oppression of those who have little power in society. And I agree that preachers should be courageous in their proclamations.

Let's back up a bit to this sentence from the first post:

Now I've heard of many wills of the Father from preachers and youtubers and across my scripture studies on the internet.

Can you give some examples of preachers saying that _____ is the will of the Father, where you disagree with them about _____? I think some examples will help me understand your question/argument better.

 

[bling]

Was Christ's pray answered? Is God's will being done on earth now? Are there at least two "wills" of God one being more a desire and the other being what He causes or allows?

 

[PloverWing]

Was Christ's pray answered? Is God's will being done on earth now? Are there at least two "wills" of God one being more a desire and the other being what He causes or allows?

A good question. Possibly we are in a stage where God's kingdom has begun, but is not yet fully implemented. So we see the beginnings of God's reign -- first in Israel, then in the person of Jesus -- but we also look forward to a future time when God's reign will be a more visible reality, and earth will fully reflect God's will. Right now, the mustard plant is still small.

I admit that I wish the healing work of God in the world could proceed a little faster...

 

[bling]

A good question. Possibly we are in a stage where God's kingdom has begun, but is not yet fully implemented. So we see the beginnings of God's reign -- first in Israel, then in the person of Jesus -- but we also look forward to a future time when God's reign will be a more visible reality, and earth will fully reflect God's will. Right now, the mustard plant is still small.

I admit that I wish the healing work of God in the world could proceed a little faster...

Was Jesus in the kingdom while he was walking around on earth?
Are all true Christians in the kingdom right now?
Does the kingdom extend from every Christian all the way to heaven?
What makes you think the kingdom has to be visible?
Well earth ever be full of all and only Christians?