The theology behind 'roaring like a lion'(

[Johan Andersson]

Hi!

I was at a conference in august this year an encountered this little thingie.

I have never understood the theological foundation for it.
If that exists for this then pls help me and explain.
Also when people say that it's the manifest lion of God, is this something other then just emotion and bad theology?

Respectfully
Johan, Sweden

 

[Monk Brendan]

I have never understood the theological foundation for it.
If that exists for this then pls help me and explain.
Also when people say that it's the manifest lion of God, is this something other then just emotion and bad theology?

First of all, the passage says, "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"

So it is not the manifest lion of God. It is only old lions that walk about roaring, they have teeth missing, they don't have the strength or stamina to hunt a deer, etc. They have to have soft, tender meat. Like Man.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hi!

I was at a conference in august this year an encountered this little thingie.

I have never understood the theological foundation for it.
If that exists for this then pls help me and explain.
Also when people say that it's the manifest lion of God, is this something other then just emotion and bad theology?

Respectfully
Johan, Sweden

Greetings, Johan, and welcome to our Forum.

@Monk Brendan is correct. The exact expression "roaring like a lion" was used by Peter in his first epistle (1 Peter 5:8). Peter could have borrowed the expression from several places in scripture, but the first place was probably the 23rd Psalm, famous for predicting the Lord's crucifixion. (Read Psalm 23:8-18). Because Christ Jesus Himself was "surrounded by bulls" before His crucifixion, and those who ridiculed Him to scorn as if "gaping upon Him with their mouths like a ravenous and roaring lion" (v.13), Satan came to be compared to a lion in his similar treatment of the saints. This is further confirmed in how he mentions persecution in the next few verses (1 Peter 5:9-10).

The word "devour" here may also harken back to Daniel and the lion's den. Had Daniel been devoured, it would have equated to his defeat. But as Peter pointed out to his readers, God would not allow such a defeat in their lives either. After a time of suffering, He would establish them safe from harm (1 Peter 5:10).

These are the most likely answers to your question.

 

[JIMINZ]

Hi!

I was at a conference in august this year an encountered this little thingie.

I have never understood the theological foundation for it.
If that exists for this then pls help me and explain.
Also when people say that it's the manifest lion of God, is this something other then just emotion and bad theology?

Respectfully
Johan, Sweden

.
Hi Johan
First, just read the verse as it is written, without any other thought as to it's meaning, then think to yourself, how does this sound to me personally?
Does what is being said sound anything like what I have heard others say?

Trust your own understanding FIRST.

Once you have done that read the following verses (9,10), they sum up what is said in verse (8)

PS.
I just had a thought, what Language is the Bible you use written in, what does it actually say?
In comparison does it say the same thing as below?

1Pe 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Or is it Translated in some other way?
Could you post an English, Translation of what it says in your Bible so we can see a comparison.

 

[SkyWriting]

First, just read the verse as it is written, without any other thought as to it's meaning, then think to yourself, how does this sound to me personally?
Does what is being said sound anything like what I have heard others say?

Trust your own understanding FIRST.

 

[SkyWriting]

Hi!

I was at a conference in august this year an encountered this little thingie.

I have never understood the theological foundation for it.
If that exists for this then pls help me and explain.
Also when people say that it's the manifest lion of God, is this something other then just emotion and bad theology?

Respectfully
Johan, Sweden

After research, I can find no clear "Lion of God" reference except for
an OT angel. It is not a well supported phrase.

 

[Bro. Daniel]

Hi!

I was at a conference in august this year an encountered this little thingie.

I have never understood the theological foundation for it.
If that exists for this then pls help me and explain.
Also when people say that it's the manifest lion of God, is this something other then just emotion and bad theology?

Respectfully
Johan, Sweden

When a lion roars, it roars into the ground confusing it's prey. The prey cannot pinpoint the lion's location nor determine the source or direction the sound is coming from. It will not know where to run striking fear into it's heart thus allowing the lion to pounce on it.

Shalom and be blessed in Yahushua's name,

Bro. Daniel

 

[Johan Andersson]

Thanks for all your answers, seems like you sofar think like me.
And have arguments to support it, I asked the hobby theologians in my church yesterday and they had no answer.

Would be interesting if there was anyone here who defends the theology, or expression but it simply might not have a theological foundation at all, the roaring-expression.

Swedish bibles is translated very much as english bibles and I have probably only met the expression that all shall roar like a lion in a service that time when I was in England, nothing we use to do in Sweden but Im sure it exists.

Love how you guys quickly answeres and comes up with scriptures and all!

 

[he-man]

Greetings, Johan, and welcome to our Forum.
@Monk Brendan is correct. The exact expression "roaring like a lion" was used by Peter in his first epistle (1 Peter 5:8). Peter could have borrowed the expression from several places in scripture, but the first place was probably the 23rd Psalm, famous for predicting the Lord's crucifixion. (Read Psalm 23:8-18). Because Christ Jesus Himself was "surrounded by bulls" before His crucifixion, and those who ridiculed Him to scorn as if "gaping upon Him with their mouths like a ravenous and roaring lion" (v.13), Satan came to be compared to a lion in his similar treatment of the saints. This is further confirmed in how he mentions persecution in the next few verses (1 Peter 5:9-10).
The word "devour" here may also harken back to Daniel and the lion's den. Had Daniel been devoured, it would have equated to his defeat. But as Peter pointed out to his readers, God would not allow such a defeat in their lives either. After a time of suffering, He would establish them safe from harm (1 Peter 5:10).
These are the most likely answers to your question.

The roaring like a lion message is completely different than the explanation you have given. The Lions are the clergyman, the Priests, the Pharisees, who falsely convicted Christ and the only thing devilish was their taking money an honor from widows for their own gain. Who do you think was gaping upon him when he was crucified? Ezekiel 22:25 There is a conspiracy of her prophets, in her midst like a roaring lion, tearing the prey, they have devoured lives, they have taken treasure and precious things, they have made many widows in the midst of her; Proverbs 19:12; Proverbs 28:15; Psalms 22:13; Zephaniah 3:3. Her prince's within are roaring Lions her judge's as wolves in the evening they leave nothing for the morning.
Theory of Daniel in the Lions den is a fabrication which along with Bel and the dragon was added at a much later time and by a different author.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The roaring like a lion message is completely different than the explanation you have given. The Lions are the clergyman, the Priests, the Pharisees, who falsely convicted Christ and the only thing devilish was their taking money an honor from widows for their own gain. Who do you think was gaping upon him when he was crucified? The story of Daniel in the Lions den is a fabrication which along with Bel and the dragon was added at a much later time and by a different author.

He-man, there are a few statements in there worth commenting on, a few which are actually in agreement with what I was saying. But your thoughts are so consistently convoluted and faithless that I find you hard to take seriously. As I recall now, it was you who posted someone a few weeks ago saying, "The Devil is a myth. Read your Bible!"

How can I engage you in a serious conversation when you make statements like that?

 

[he-man]

He-man, there are a few statements in there worth commenting on, a few which are actually in agreement with what I was saying. But your thoughts are so consistently convoluted and faithless that I find you hard to take seriously. As I recall now, it was you who posted someone a few weeks ago saying, "The Devil is a myth. Read your Bible!"
How can I engage you in a serious conversation when you make statements like that?

Please be advised to address the scripture that was posted it is against forum rules to try to belittle or attack a person ! You jumped the gun, now read the scripture I posted: Ezekiel 22:25 There is a conspiracy of her prophets in her midst like a roaring lion tearing the prey they have devoured lives they have taken treasure and precious things they have made many widows in the midst of her.

 

[Hidden In Him]

You jumped the gun, now read the scripture I posted: Ezekiel 22:25 There is a conspiracy of her prophets in her midst like a roaring lion tearing the prey they have devoured lives they have taken treasure and precious things they have made many widows in the midst of her.

Just getting back, and this is an excellent scripture.

But now, you will have to forgive me for my response if I offended you. I wasn't trying to either belittle or attack you, and I say that honestly before the Lord. I was simply sharing with you that some of the posts you have written in the past come off as described, and I was simply being up front with you in the most direct yet polite way I knew how.

But it wasn't a personal thing, and I do commend you on your verse. That's excellent, and very applicable to the question at hand.

 

[he-man]

Just getting back, and this is an excellent scripture.
But now, you will have to forgive me for my response if I offended you. I wasn't trying to either belittle or attack you, and I say that honestly before the Lord. I was simply sharing with you that some of the posts you have written in the past come off as described, and I was simply being up front with you in the most direct yet polite way I knew how.
But it wasn't a personal thing, and I do commend you on your verse. That's excellent, and very applicable to the question at hand.

Thanks, but what about all the others I gave you and in addition who do you think killed Christ if not the Rulers, Priests, and Pharisees? Matthew 26:59 Now the chief Priests and elders and all the council sought how they might put Jesus to death.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Proverbs 19:12; Proverbs 28:15; Psalms 22:13; Zephaniah 3:3.

As stated, there are a whole host of verses where the metaphor could've been borrowed from. Now Proverbs 19:12 would probably be best taken in a positive light, i.e. of a just king, since the rest of the verse speaks of his favor/mercy. But Proverbs 28:15 is applicable, Psalms 22:13 I quoted, and Zephaniah 3:3 in particular is excellent, possibly better than Ezekiel 22:25.

I'm curious, though. You seem to have supposed from the outset that I was not talking about the Jewish leadership at the time of the crucifixion, when that is exactly who I was talking about. I'm wondering how we lost each other there.

The roaring like a lion message is completely different than the explanation you have given. The Lions are the clergyman, the Priests, the Pharisees

 

[he-man]

As stated, there are a whole host of verses where the metaphor could've been borrowed from. Now Proverbs 19:12 would probably be best taken in a positive light, i.e. of a just king, since the rest of the verse speaks of his favor/mercy. But Proverbs 28:15 is applicable, Psalms 22:13 I quoted, and Zephaniah 3:3 in particular is excellent, possibly better than Ezekiel 22:25.
I'm curious, though. You seem to have supposed from the outset that I was not talking about the Jewish leadership at the time of the crucifixion, when that is exactly who I was talking about. I'm wondering how we lost each other there.

From your last part about a devil and you quoted 1 Peter 5:8 which is not what it means. The word is διαβολος and it means slanderer, enemy according to Slater, MiddleLiddell, and the University of Chicago logeio.uchicago.edu and it is an adjective not a noun, dative, singular, masculine.

 

[Hidden In Him]

From your last part about a devil and you quoted 1 Peter 5:8 which is not what it means. The word is and it means slanderer, enemy according to Slater, MiddleLiddell, and the University of Chicago logeio.uchicago.edu and it is an adjective not a noun, dative, singular, masculine.

Ha Ha! Because διαβολος is an adjective and not a noun does not mean it isn't used as a substantive, LoL. He-man, this is why I said you are faithless. I wasn't insulting you, you are proving that my statement was accurate.

Since you have engaged me on this subject, let's deal with this. Yes, the word should occasionally be translated as "slanderer" or "accuser." But since you contend that there is no Devil, what is your opinion regarding how διαβολος should be translated in the following verses:

- Jude 1:9
- Matthew 4:1
- Revelation 12:12
- Revelation 12:9
- Revelation 20:2

 

[he-man]

Ha Ha! Because διαβολος is an adjective and not a noun does not mean it isn't used as a substantive, LoL. He-man, this is why I said you are faithless. I wasn't insulting you, you are proving that my statement was accurate.

Since you have engaged me on this subject, let's deal with this. Yes, the word should occasionally be translated as "slanderer" or "accuser." But since you contend that there is no Devil, what is your opinion regarding how διαβολος should be translated in the following verses:

- Jude 1:9
- Matthew 4:1
- Revelation 12:12
- Revelation 12:9
- Revelation 20:2

Jude 1:9 is the same adj, dative, singular, masculine Slanderer, enemy, Slater, MiddleLidell and uchicago.edu
Matthew 4:1; the same except for the genitive adj, genitive, singular, masculine
Rev. 12:22 the same but in the nominative
Rev 12:9 THE SAME
Rev. 20:2 Adversary; and for Σατανος accuser; Chaldee G4567, Noun Nominative, Singular, Masculine

 

[Hidden In Him]

Jude 1:9 is the same adj, dative, singular, masculine Slanderer, enemy, Slater, MiddleLidell and uchicago.edu
Matthew 4:1; the same except for the genitive adj, genitive, singular, masculine
Rev. 12:22 the same but in the nominative
Rev 12:9 THE SAME
Rev. 20:2 Adversary; and for Σατανος accuser; Chaldee G4567, Noun Nominative, Singular, Masculine

And...?

What I was looking for was how do you interpret these verses, since you apparently believe that none of them refer to an actual Devil.

 

[he-man]

And...?

What I was looking for was how do you interpret these verses, since you apparently believe that none of them refer to an actual Devil.

Jude 1:9 ...when contending with the adversary....see Zechariah 3:2-2 the one being addressed was the class of people in that opposed Joshua and the building of Jerusalem and all you have to do is use the translations I gave you to read the other verses.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Jude 1:9 ...when contending with the adversary....see Zechariah 3:2-2 the one being addressed was the class of people that opposed Joshua and the building of Jerusalem and all you have to do is use the translations I gave you to read the other verses.

Setting Zechariah 3:2-3 aside for the moment, what class of people was Micheal addressing in Jude 1:9?