The Purpose of the Earth

[CoreyD]

Is your logic for calling the destruction of the earth and heavens with fire only the author being figurative, based on your assumption earth will be occupied for 1000 years after judgement, so that means it cannot be destroyed?

No.
It's based on the scriptures that state why God created the earth - for hat purpose, and what his will is, for the future.

As far as I am concerned this earth and heavens around it, can stick around, but see no reason for humans to come back to earth and live here. Scientifically earth is a miracle and should be gone by now, which to the scientist just means we have been very lucky.

Sharing your personal opinion... Remember, I am not interested in personal opinions and feelings.
I am interested in God's view, as stated in the scriptures.
There are a lot of emotional people just flocking to church buildings today, and this is the reason God's word has become almost absent in many people's life, as 2 Timothy 4:3, 4 says.

I very much see the logic and wisdom behind the judgment and heaven and hell, but nothing behind the 1000 years reign.

I'd rather the scriptures determine what is.

God never promised to destroy the physical heavens with water, so it is only the earth we are talking about with the flood.

Did Peter not mention the old heaven? Why are you not interested in that?

It is a cleansing water baptism.

Do we agree that the flood was not figurative?

If the flood was not figurative why does the fire have to be figurative?

The fire is further described as destroying the elements, so what is the figurative meaning to that?

Like I said: If a torched earth, sky and elements remain for someone to live with, it sounds more like hell than heaven to me.

I think the “New Earth” is in the Spiritual realm, streets of gold.

You'll have to address this.

There are examples, in the scriptures of this figurative use.​

Isaiah 34:5 For My sword is satiated [with blood] (ravah: to be saturated, drink one's fill) in heaven; Indeed, it will come down for judgment on Edom And on the people whom I have doomed for destruction.​

Please also see Haggai 2:20-22, and Genesis 11:1​

The heavens and earth are used in scripture figuratively to represent people.​

There is also Revelations 20:11.​

This would harmonize with the scriptures which says God established the earth like his sanctuary, forever.​

It would also harmonize with God's promise, made at Genesis 9:21​

Do you believe God will break that promise, and destroy the earth, and all the animals, along with it?​

Gen. 8: 21 The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: “Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though[a] every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

Gen. 9: 15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16 Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.”

Gen. 9: 15 gives further specific detail to God’s description of “as I have done” = “waters become a flood to destroy all life”.

Again, God’s promises are contingent Jer. 18.

I do not understand your answer. Is your answer yes, or no?

God describes Adam and Eve as being “Very Good”, but is that the same as “perfect” like Christ is “Perfect”?

I agree.

“Very Good” can mean, as good as a being can be made, but they are made beings and lack something at their creation Christ, a not made being, had.

I agree they had to grow and develop to meet a higher level of perfection.

This earth has a purpose and was not meant to have the same purpose as heaven or anywhere else.

Yes. This was mentioned in the OP, and Psalm 115:16 was mentioned.

This earth outside the Garden is the very best place for willing individuals to fulfill their earthly objective. The Garden prior to sin occupied by Adam and Eve showed us that it was a lousy place for humans to fulfill their earthly objective since the very best all human representatives did not fulfill their objective in the Garden and had a much greater chance outside the Garden after sinning.

Since this is obviously your opinion, I don't expect you would have a scripture that says anything like it.

God did not start over from scratch. Adam and Eve had the Garden experience and we all can see what they went through and learn from it.

Didn't you say God will incinerate this physical earth, and create a new physical earth.. and heavens?
If God does that, is he not starting over, with the heavens and earth?
Please explain.

 

[bling]

I have heard this opinion before, but do you have any scriptures to support that idea? Or, is it something you just believe?

God placed Adam and Eve, in a garden - a paradise, of Eden - pleasure/ delight.
Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary - Eden
pleasure; delight

Paradise - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In the Septuagint (3rd–1st centuries BCE), Greek παράδεισος parádeisos was used to translate both Hebrew פרדס pardes and Hebrew גן gan, "garden" (e.g. (Genesis 2:8, Ezekiel 28:13): it is from this usage that the use of "paradise" to refer to the Garden of Eden derives. The same usage also appears in Arabic and in the Quran as firdaws فردوس.

Jesus either talked about a real place or a figurative place in the Lazarus parable, so something like that is what I imagine.

It does not make any real difference to me, I just want to be with Christ.

What are you imagining about this paradise?

Please show me where in the scripture you find that Jesus "takes on Spiritual abilities not shown prior to His death, which could include being in multiple locations at the same time".

He appeared in a closed room and disappeared. Having omnipresent is a deity ability, but I do not know if Christ had that ability at this time.

Nor does God have to be on earth to be with men. that's true.
So, you agree then that the thief did not go to heaven then? Good, because that's what we wanted to establish.

That's nice. That's what I was saying. We got somewhere, because we are considering the scriptures, and questions lead to the correct answer.

Jesus and the thief went to paradise, but I do not know where that is.

These translations are interesting. I can't blame you for their choice of words.
I'd check the original language just to be sure though.
eshtonah or eshton: thought


The Bible says "the dust returns to the ground from which it came and the spirit returns to God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7

Does that mean man has a living spirit that does space travel?
It simply means that it rests with God who gives the spirit, to give it again, upon resurrection. Psalm 104:29, 30
You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust.
You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; And You renew the face of the ground.

Do you mean a “physical body” like the one we have will be resurrected?

Those "poetic and figurative verses not to be taken literally", are actually the same scriptures Jesus quoted from and applied to the Messiah and the fulfillment of his work. Luke 24:44

And He said unto to them, "These are my words, which I spoke to you being still with you, that all things having been written concerning Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms, it behooves to be fulfilled."​

Are you saying that these scriptures are not tangible?

You should realize that some (not all scripture) is figurative and we have to look at the context from which the verse I quoted.

I actually have a thread discussing the 1,000 year judgment, where I answer that question, in this post. Thanks for asking.


Please see posts 29, 30, and 31.
Then take a look at post 5, which starts from the events leading up to the 1,000 year rule.

OK, I read your thread and posts.

With your understanding, do you see the choice to accept God, exactly the same for an unbeliever living during the 1000 years and those living today?

What are the differences between our fleshly body we have now on earth and our heavenly bodies you feel we have in this 1000 year reign?

With your understanding: why is it not much more dangerous to have the choice now, since it is so easy to reject God’s Love while on earth, than to avoid making the choice until the thousand year reign, since you would have a ton of unquestionable knowledge and a 1000 years to process that knowledge in order to come to the conclusion of heaven over hell? In the 1000 years, it is almost like having a gun to your head to choose hell, but here and now a sinners just do not have to believe there is a hell to feel comfortable sinning.

The people in the 1000 year reign would not need “faith”, since the knowledge of God’s existence and Love surrounds them. There is not free will choice with likely alternatives.

Help me out here, I see this messed up world, right now, being the very best place for willing individual to fulfill their earthly objective (make a truly free will choice with likely alternatives, to accept God’s Love in the form of forgiveness) and that is the reason humans spend time on earth, but you seem to be suggesting that the Garden Eden where two sinless people sinned is a better place?

After the 1000 years is there a second resurrection to heaven?

It's here on earth that God planted trees, with seed, and once man takes care of the earth, which will happen, when God makes this earth a paradise of delight, again, you can live in as much cardboard boxes, as you want.
If God asks you what is wrong with you, that you are cutting down the trees, then you know you have gone too far.


I have not read that heaven is a resting place.
I know that our resting place is the grave, and Job and others were aware of this.
Even Jesus said that Lazarus had gone to rest, when he died.

“Rest” is what the Jews were supposed to do on the Sabbath (not work). Worship is not work so is rest.

Heaven is not made for man.
It is God's sanctuary. The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD’s; But the earth He has given to the children of men. Psalm 115:16
The earth is given to man as his home.

Did you consider the scriptures on this?
I really would like to hear your response, please.
The scriptures need to be considered, lest, our ideas become the conclusions we hold on to , and run with.
Please tell me what you find not to be true, and why.

Why then do people go to heaven as the Bible says?
That takes us back to Jesus words - "the Lord's prayer. Matthew 6:10
Your kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

Daniel 2:44 - In the days of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will shatter all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, but will itself stand forever.

Isaiah 9:6, 7 - 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish and sustain it with justice and righteousness from that time and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of Hosts will accomplish this.

God arranged for a kingdom - a heavenly government - to be ruled by his only begotten, who will rule over the earth, after destroying all other kingdoms, and restore the earth to the state God wills it - a paradise. Man's home, where sin and death will be gone forever. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28

What translation are you finding “earth” in 1 Cor. 15:24-28?

Christ selected persons to rule with him, but Christ did not decide that every righteous person would rule. He chose a small number. Luke 12:32; Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 7:1-4; Revelation 14:1-4; Revelation 20:4, 6
These are the Saints.

They will rule with Christ, and be priests and judges with him, for the thousand years. Daniel 7:13, 14, 27; Revelation 5:9, 10
The scriptures are all there for you to check, since we wants God's view, and not our personal opinions.

How are you interpreting: 1 Cor. 15: 35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.



42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.



If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we[g] bear the image of the heavenly man.

There is only one resurrection and only one fleshly body and one Spiritual body talked about. The fleshly body dies and gives life to the Spiritual body.

I am referencing the scriptures every time.
Can I ask, are you checking the scriptures I reference, to see what the Bible says, and if they agree with what I say?
Can I encourage you to do so, please.
Here it is again. Matthew 17:9

How does: “As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Don’t tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.”

Suggest that is a vision and not what they “have seen”.
By the testimony of two or three witnesses, it is to be taken as fact. Jesus took three Peter, James and John, since you might say: “He only had a vision”, but you cannot say that with three witnesses.

 

[bling]

God's will, and purpose is not the same as God paying back man according to what man does.
Jeremiah 18 has nothing to do with God's purpose, but is related to how God deals with a nation.

What we can see from scripture and all around us is: God is doing all He can to help willing individuals in fulfilling their objective.
Promising to do good for a person or nation which forsakes Him would not be good for them, so He does the better thing to help them. He does not do what He said He would do, but that is not God lying since we have Jer. 18.

What "different Doctrines" have I brought up?

God’s objective (you might call it purpose) does not change, but what He promises to do for a person or nation can change as a result of a change in the person or nation (Jer. 18)

Can I count on you to answer the questions I asked, which you have not answered?
I'll still go ahead and answer your questions.

I am trying, but I ask questions also.

I used a bad word. I meant initial, or original.
God's original purpose is stated in Genesis 1:26-28; Isaiah 45:18; Acts 17:26

Gen. 1:26-28 26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
In Some ways this has happened, but maybe not by your definition of rule, subdue and fill.
By any definition this was a command so if man does not do this command he needs forgiveness for not doing it. Man does not do lots of commands, but that is man’s fault and not something God has to force man to do.
Is. 45: 18 For this is what the Lord says—he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited— he says: “I am the Lord, and there is no other.
Again, it is not God’s fault if we do not inhabit all the earth, but our fault. Who will inhabit the earth after the 1000 year reign?
If there is no longer a house built for people to live in, than it does not need to be inhabited.
Acts 7: 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.
Here God says what man “should do”, but man does not always do what man “should do”.
If the appointed time runs out, then what?
God's purpose has not changed, but neither has it come to realization, or been fulfilled.

God's purpose has not changed, but neither has it come to realization, or been fulfilled.
. Psalm 37:11

Psalms 37:11 But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy peace and prosperity. NIV

When has Israel been meek?

A lot of the promises to the physical earthly descendants of Abraham, were completed with the cross and we live by them no more. Our “Kingdom” today is not tied to the land, but is Spiritual.

The Bible explains why that is the case - Romans 5:12

Ro. 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.

David wrote way after Adam sinned, so are these just shallow promises?This is not about our feelings. I am not interested in what "we feel".

Read Genesis 3:8-24, and that should tell you the Bible's answer. Which should be what you want to know, rather than what a pastor, or anyone else tells you about God.

God has perfect knowledge of man’s future, so He knows what man did before man knows what he will do, but do you agree with that?

Does God allow sin? The Bible's answer : Romans 9:22; Romans 8:20-24; Romans 5:12

OK this is addressed with my answering your question on “Man’s objective”I'll answer the last question, first.

What will persons living in the future have, that Adam and Eve did not have.
Unbreakable love for and loyalty to God.

Is this something they learn, develop, or instinctively are given? Why did Adam and Eve not have it?

1. Knowledge of the consequences of independence from God.

God raised (programmed) Adam and Eve to adulthood and they had only one way to sin (go apart from God), so why is it easier for those who now have tons of ways to sin?

1. Knowledge that submitting to God's rulership leads to the best life possible.

Adam and Eve had a “Great Life” and knew not submitting to God’s one rule results in death.

1. An unwavering determination to stick to God regardless.

However, what humans have is not the most important thing.
The most important thing is God's name and Sovereignty. Psalm 83:18; Ezekiel 36:23; Ezekiel 38:23; Isaiah 5:16; Daniel 2:44; Matthew 6:9, 10

God is this and does this, no matter what humans do, but the question is about humans.

Considering your first question, here is something to consider.

The angel that sinned - becoming Satan the Devil - was sinless, and in heaven. So were the crowd of heavenly ones that followed him.

Whether in heaven, or on earth, intelligent creatures can sin.

Considering your first question, here is something to consider.

• The angel that sinned - becoming Satan the Devil - was sinless, and in heaven. So were the crowd of heavenly ones that followed him.
• Whether in heaven, or on earth, intelligent creatures can sin.
• The location has nothing to do with sin. So, the idea that heaven is somehow a get away place from sin, is a myth

So now, I am confused, are you saying we sin in the 1000 years and/or heaven?

The reason persons go to heaven, is outlined in the scriptures. Those scriptures I referenced previously.
Matthew 6:1

Your kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

I explained this before: the Kingdom came on Pentecost and God “will” which we also agree with is happening on earth right now, but man is not accepting God’s help.

Daniel 2:44 - In the days of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will shatter all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, but will itself stand forever.

That prophecy is fulfilled with the Spiritual Kingdom coming on the Day of Pentecost.

Isaiah 9:6, 7 - 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish and sustain it with justice and righteousness from that time and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of Hosts will accomplish this.

Again, That prophecy is fulfilled with the Spiritual Kingdom coming on the Day of Pentecost.

God arranged for a kingdom - a heavenly government - to be ruled by his only begotten, who will rule over the earth, after destroying all other kingdoms, and restore the earth to the state God wills it - a paradise. Man's home, where sin and death will be gone forever. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28

Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Your own ideas on the 1000 year reign has from the very beginning, Christ destroying all the bad on earth.
https://ref.ly/1 Cor 15.24-28;nkjv?t=biblia

Christ selected persons to rule with him, but Christ did not decide that every righteous person would rule. He chose a small number. Luke 12:32; Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 7:1-4; Revelation 14:1-4; Revelation 20:4, 6
These are the Saints.

OK, but that does not have to be on earth.

They will rule with Christ, and be priests and judges with him, for the thousand years. Daniel 7:13, 14, 27; Revelation 5:9, 10
The scriptures are all there for you to check, since we wants God's view, and not our personal opinions.

It takes time going verse by verse showing more likely alternative interpretationsand/ or how the verse does not support your conclusion.

The big assumption you make is assuming all these verses have to do with some 1000 year reign here on earth after people are raised from the dead and Christ comes back.

Why would those in the grave meet Christ in the air if Christ is just going to bring them to earth?

OK Dan. 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed…. 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’

This certainly does not have to happen on earth and can start with the Kingdom coming on Pentecost.

Rev. 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”

We, today, are to be that Kingdom of Priests worshipping 24/7 and thus the true rulers of this world. The Spiritual Kingdom is the only Kingdom which matters. Rev. 1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

So, yes. According to the scriptures, God, and his people - those who submit to God's will, as outlined in the scriptures, wants mankind to go back to the Garden (paradise) of Eden (pleasure/ delight), so that God can accomplish what he set out to accomplish from Genesis.

God has the power and wisdom to fully accomplish everything God set out to accomplish, so it is not God’s fault.

It is not “God trying to accomplish something and “failing” the first time, thus needing a second try, it is man who fails to fulfill man’s earthly objective in the Garden (God would know this, but Adam and Eve went through this to show them and us that the Garden is a lousy place to fulfill our objective).

Ephesians 1:9, 10
9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth - in Him.

“All things” are not everything that exist (evil stuff would not be included), but “all things” in Christ, which have now been united in heaven and on our earth. The Kingdom extends from the thrown of God in heaven all the way down to individual Christians on earth.

Yes. It is God's will and purpose, to have a universal family - sons in heaven, and sons on earth... both worshipping their heavenly father unitedly in love.
With his sovereignty proven and established to all his children, that is exactly what will be. Revelation 21:1-5
This is why God allowed time to prove once and for all time, that God's rule is righteous and good Romans 3:25, 26, and allowed time for persons to choose whom they will serve. 2 Peter 3:9

Not everyone accepts the opportunity to be a child of God, but that is true today.

2 Peter 3: 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

So does that mean no one goes to hell and/or everyone has a second change during the 1000 years?

God presented Him as the atoning sacrifice through faith in His blood, in order to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance He had passed over the sins committed beforehand. He did this to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and to justify the one who has faith in Jesus. Romans 3:25, 26​

My question to you is, which of these scriptures do you consider as not supporting the above, if any, and why?

Scripture supports the truth, but they are not supporting your conclusion, as I have shown there are other more likely interpretations.
continued below:

 

[bling]

No.
We sin against God, because... Let's allow a first century Christian, and vessel of God, to answer.
Romans 7:14-20
14 ...I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God - through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

How are we better off? Please explain.

Romans 7 verses 14-24, of the 24 commentaries I have read all do a poor job. Two commentaries did use the approach that Paul was speaking of his previous life as a non-Christian and gave some (what I call) soft evidence to support the idea. Mostly just saying, how it would be inconsistent to the rest of Romans especially chp. 8 to say that was the pitiful state Paul was in at the time. I was interested in what hard evidence: for why Paul would switch from the past tense to the present tense in these 10 verses?



Romans 7: 7-24 is similar to Mark’s whole Gospel of Christ’s war against satan’s follows of this world”, so we have, Paul’s war and victory over sin.



The Gospel of Mark was mimicking the messages that were sent out by the Roman generals after winning a great battle. These messages went with messengers to dramatically present the battle with the victory at the end, to the cheers of the crowd. They were always in the present tense and we have some copies that were written in stone under the battle monuments that were spread throughout Rome. The Gospel of Mark is written in the style of these Victory Messages sent by the Roman General to the Roman Empire and Mark’s is very much a victory message. Do you think, Paul in keep with the Roman culture of the day, would have written His victorious battle over sin in the present tense to the Romans in Rome?

On every major street corner in Rome were monuments to some great Roman victory, some parts of these monuments are in museums today and below each is given an exciting climatic description of the battle in the “historic present tense”. This was the same description carried by messengers sent out by the general over the Roman Empire, after a great victory.

This topic and the use of Romans 7: 14-24 come up a lot and a lot has been written on it.

The context helps and you need to address these questions:

1. When did Paul learn about “coveting”?

2. When did this problem start for Paul?

3. Does Paul continue in the misery and what would relief this misery?

4. Is “just being forgiven” a good solution to the problem?

5. When did Paul obtain the solution?

Romans 8 is the answer to why Paul is no longer to say: “What a wretched man I am!”.

Romans 8: 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.

Sin has purpose for the nonbeliever, but what “purpose” does it have in the believer life?

When Deity dwelled unquenched in a human (Christ) it did not sin, so does deity dwell within Christians, so the problem is really the quenching of the Spirit?

There is a problem with this question.
Can you please tell me... Where was the first sin... in heaven, or on earth? Please read John 8:44, to be sure.
Did anyone in heaven, or on earth, have a close relationship with God, simply on the basis of "just accepting God’s Love"? Who? and where can I find the verse?

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Here is what we read in Jude 1:20, 21
But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

The idea of "just accepting God’s Love" is not found in scripture.
I was thinking when you asked, "Are we as Christians in this messed up world not better off than Adam and Eve were prior to sinning?" of people who enjoy sinning, because they think that they can sin and then God will forgive them.
Perhaps this is why some do preach the message from the pulpit - "just accepting God’s Love".
I've met people like this.

The easiest way for humans to accept God’s Love is in the act of accepting God unconditional, unselfish forgiveness.

From reading Matt. 18 we can conclude the forgiveness is a transaction requiring actions on both the forgiver and the forgiven. God is always doing His part perfectly (unconditionally forgiving), but humans must humbly accept that forgiveness as pure undeserved charity, which is hard to do especially since the charity comes as a huge sacrifice for the forgiver.

Our actions (repentance/Love/Charity) shows we have accepted God’s charity (forgiveness) like is explained by Christ in Luke 7.

 

[bling]

No.
It's based on the scriptures that state why God created the earth - for hat purpose, and what his will is, for the future.

Earth’s “purpose” is for physical earthly people, not resurrected people, that are like the angels.

If there are no physical earthly people around the earth has no purpose to continue to exist.

I'd rather the scriptures determine what is.

Is God not logical also, with the exception of His Love.

Did Peter not mention the old heaven? Why are you not interested in that?

The old earth and old heaven (where we are now) will be destroyed.

You'll have to address this.

There are examples, in the scriptures of this figurative use.​

Isaiah 34:5 For My sword is satiated [with blood] (ravah: to be saturated, drink one's fill) in heaven; Indeed, it will come down for judgment on Edom And on the people whom I have doomed for destruction.​

Please also see Haggai 2:20-22, and Genesis 11:1​

The heavens and earth are used in scripture figuratively to represent people.​

There is also Revelations 20:11.​

This would harmonize with the scriptures which says God established the earth like his sanctuary, forever.​

It would also harmonize with God's promise, made at Genesis 9:21​

Do you believe God will break that promise, and destroy the earth, and all the animals, along with it?​

I never suggested there was no figurative language in scripture, but Peter in the context of the fire destruction of the earth, elements and heaven uses the flood which we agree is not figurative.

Gen. 9:21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent.

What does that have to do with our discussion?

I do not understand your answer. Is your answer yes, or no?

God is not “promising” to not destroy the earth, but does promise not to destroy the earth with water.

Again, God’s promises concerning a future pleasing to some people (keep the earth around) would still be contingent on the good behavior of those people (Jer.18).

I agree they had to grow and develop to meet a higher level of perfection.

Christ had something that they could not learn and/or develop, but could be gifted to them.

Yes. This was mentioned in the OP, and Psalm 115:16 was mentioned.

Psalms 115:16 The highest heavens belong to the Lord, but the earth he has given to mankind.

If fleshly people (mankind) and not (like the angels) no longer exist then the earth no longer needs to exist, so the earth is not being stated as everlasting in the Psalm.

Since this is obviously your opinion, I don't expect you would have a scripture that says anything like it.

“God is our Father and wants all to be saved” so He is not going to give us a snake when we need bread. God as our Shepherd Father would lead us to the very best place.

For God to put us in anything less than the very best place is just contrary to who God is.

Didn't you say God will incinerate this physical earth, and create a new physical earth.. and heavens?
If God does that, is he not starting over, with the heavens and earth?
Please explain.

A “physical heaven and earth” is the best place for physical human people, but we are to be like the angels and God did not place angels on a physical earth.

 

[CoreyD]

Not at all!

The purpose of this messed up world is to provide the very best place for willing individuals to fulfill their earthly objective and that is what it does. The New Earth, is where people who have already fulfilled their earthly objective will go.

There is no scripture in the Bible, I am aware of, that supports this idea.
Can you provide any scripture that says this?

Is. 55: 11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:

It will not return to me empty,

but will accomplish what I desire

and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

God sent His word to earth to provide the opportunity for everyone to receive it and change, but they have the free will to refuse God’s word, which does not take anything away from God’s word. God does His part perfectly.

Is that what you get from that verse?
Interesting, but that word from God's mouth, is his utterances - his proclamations, promises... etc.
These will not "return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it."
Just "as rain and snow fall from heaven and do not return without watering the earth, making it bud and sprout, and providing seed to sow and food to eat," Isaiah 55:10

The proclamation will succeed.
Hence, God's purpose never fails.
I'm glad we agree on that.

So did God's purpose for the earth fail?
At this time, it seems I must ask this:
What is God's purpose for the earth? In other words, why did God create the earth? Please answer by means of scripture.

OK.

OK, meaning you agree that both Revelation and parables use analogies, I take it.

Most of Revelation is written in apocalyptic language, symbolic representation.

All parables use symbolic representation, even though some elements - not all, are relatable.

This earth is where we live now, so be righteous, since it will not last.

the earth and everything done in it will be found means this earth is where we live now, so be righteous, since it will not last?
No bling. That is not what the earth and everything done in it will be found means.
It means the earth and everything done in it will be discovered/clearly seen.

So, 2 Peter 3:10 does not say the earth will be burnt up, or destroyed.
What about the heavens? The heavens (figurative) will pass away, and the elements (of knowledge) will be consumed, be dissolved, destroyed, set at naught.

I cannot convince you that Peter is using figurative language, here, but the scriptures aren't going to literally speak, so we can call it a day on this.

Just quoting the NIV: Psalm 37:29 The righteous will inherit the land and dwell in it forever.

Okay.
Why do you think the NIV, and all the other translations, that used "land", at Psalm 37:11, use "earth" at Matthew 5:5, where Jesus quotes from Psalm 37:11?
Matthew 5:5 - Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. (NIV)

Was Jesus talking about land in Israel here, or was he referring to future earth?

The Kingdom did come with Pentecost.

It did?
Please provide the scripture that tells us this.

If you believe that though, do you also believe that Pentecost 33 CE was acharith: the end? Daniel 2:28, 44

28 But there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries, and He has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will happen in acharith: the end. Your dream and the visions that came into your mind as you lay on your bed were these:​

44 In the days of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will shatter all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, but will itself stand forever.​

This is for another topic, but do you believe the feet of iron and clay represents a kingdom after Rome - the legs of iron?

There are different types of “will” for God, since it can mean what God “desires” and what God “causes and/or allows”. We could just be showing our support of what God is causing and/or allowing.

I need to understand what you are not understanding from this very strait forward paragraph:

Jer. 18: 7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.

Do you not understand “if” is telling us that God’s promises are contingent on the person?

I explained this in this post.

Jesus says people who have died will become like the angels: Matthew 22:30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Those who are like angels are resurrected to heaven, yes. They are immortal - having a spirit body that is neither male nor female. 1 Corinthians 15:53, 54; Galatians 3:28

Explained above.
I think we agree that the Hebrew word for “forever” does not always mean eternal.

That does not apply to every place where you see the word ""forever"
Therefore, to take everyone of these scriptures, and say the word forever, is indefinite, one has to have a scriptural basis for doing so.

• A generation goes and a generation comes, But the earth remains forever. Ecclesiastes 1:4
• He built His sanctuary like the heights, like the earth He has established forever. Psalm 78:69
• He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever. Psalm 104:5

Can you provide a scriptural basis for saying that any one of those scriptures is not definite?
The one at Psalm 78:69 is clear, as it uses the comparison of the earth being established for ever, to the elevation of God's sanctuary.

Therefore, we can be sure of the fact that the earth is established forever.

God’s word did not and is not failing, but man can fail.

I agree.
Therefore, God's purpose for the earth is going to be fulfilled according to his will. Do you agree?

Ok, this takes many words since you do not know.

I am thinking of several scriptures.

• Genesis 22:18 - through your offspring all nations of the earth will be blessed.
• Luke 2 14 - “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among those with whom he is pleased!”
• Daniel 7:14 - And He was given dominion, glory, and kingship, that the people of every nation and language should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and His kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
• Isaiah 9:6, 7 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish and sustain it with justice and righteousness from that time and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of Hosts will accomplish this. Luke 1:31-33

I would not say that is not knowing.

Briefly:

Everything is driven by the objective and the objective is not to just live forever in heaven nor just not to sin, yet eternal life is one of the results of our fulfilling our earthly objective.

Please provide the scriptures that tells us what our earthly objective is, and that eternal life is the result of fulfilling that objective.

 

[CoreyD]

Briefly:

Everything is driven by the objective and the objective is not to just live forever in heaven nor just not to sin, yet eternal life is one of the results of our fulfilling our earthly objective.

Has God given man a mission statement? (this is always good to have)

You can take any command in scripture and have Biblical support for calling that command “Man’s Objective” since Biblical said do it, but there are two overriding commands all other commands are bases on and subordinated to.

Would “Loving God and secondly others with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy” be our Mission statement given as two commands?

This Godly type Love is defined by Jesus’ words and deeds (you can also use 1 Cor 13 and 1 John 4), so what is that?

Is God this ultimate Lover? Would that “Love” compel even God to make beings that could Love like He Loves (this “Love of God” is totally unselfish [a measurement for pure Love] and thus is not for God’s sake at all, but is totally for the sake of others [which would also be God’s sake])?

So, if God is not doing anything for His own sake and everything for the sake of others, would He be expecting or needing anything from man or would God just be trying to give the greatest gifts He could give to man?

Are there something God just cannot do: like make another Christ, since Christ was never made but always existed?

Could God place this Godly type Love in a person at his/her creation (an instinctive love) or would an instinctive love be like a robotic love and not like God’s Love?

Could God just force His Love on man against the “will” of man or would that be like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun?

What does man need that he does not have instinctively in order for man to fulfill His Mission?

Man must have a very limited amount of autonomous free will to make at least the one choice to humbly accept or reject God’s Love (forgiveness/mercy/grace/charity).

Man’s objective seems to be to obtain and grow this Godly type Love to fulfill the mission (statement) of Love God and secondly others with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy.

Our “objective” while here on earth is to just accept God’s gift as it was given as pure charity, this will enable us to fulfill our mission.

God is not trying to get you to do something, but is trying to give you something.

The problem is not sin (unforgiven sin is a huge problem), because God will forgive our sins which helps us to Love (…he that is forgiven much will Love much….Luke 7) God hates sin, but does allow it, so we can more easily accept His Love (in the form of forgiveness the easiest way for us to accept His charity). The problem is always our fulfilling our objective.

The easiest way for humans to accept God’s charity (Love) is out of a huge need and that need is the relief from the burden of hurting others in the past (sin). By a free willing acceptance of God’s forgiveness, we accept God’s Love (mercy/grace/charity) and thus we will Love much (a Godly type Love, automatically given) since Jesus has taught us (we also see this in our own lives) “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” Luke 7: 36-50.

What I get from this is, love of God and neighbor, is man's objective.
Is that what you are trying to say here?

Our objective comes first.

There is more scripture than I would ever have the time to fully understand, so I need to prioritize. The Spirit within me know where I should best spend my time, so I will follow His lead.

You seem to be saying that love of God and neighbor are what you focus on, and so understanding Revelation isn't that important.
Is that what you are saying?

I enjoy doing one on one Bible Studies, but really only two were, what I considered a “person of Peace” the Spirit led me to, so He could mentor them through me with amazing “success”. I have also known several “Persons of Peace”, who were mentored by the Spirit through other friends. These are all long stories, but the result was: they rapidly Spiritual grew right past me.

Yes, but maybe not in the West. I keep up with some Disciples in China, but know of what some are doing in North Korea, India, Iran, and parts of Africa. These are long stories.

Interesting, indeed.
What do you think of Matthew 24:14?
Do you think the West is very much included there?

What you said does not “prove” a comma should come after “today”.

There are lots of Greek Biblical scholars, who agreed on the comma going before today in their writing of the English translation and I find no Biblical Scholar involved in writing an English translation putting the comma after today, so I briefly looked at it:

If you place the comma after “today” it does not add anything to what Jesus is saying, you would have the exact same meaning leaving the word “today” out of what Jesus said:

Truly I tell you: “you will be with me in Paradise.” = “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”

Do you see Jesus wasting his words, especially while on the cross?

Perhaps you did not look at the Linguistic evidence, then.

There are plenty of people who do not like the salvation of the thief at all or do not like both of them going to Paradise the day they die.

I'm concerned with what the Bible says.
No unrighteous person goes to heaven, and those who die, go to the grave, where they await the resurrection on the last day, according to the Bible.

 

[CoreyD]

Earth’s “purpose” is for physical earthly people, not resurrected people, that are like the angels.

So earth was made for physical people?
When did God change his mind about having physical people live on earth?

If there are no physical earthly people around the earth has no purpose to continue to exist.

When does God get rid of all the physical earthly people?

Is God not logical also, with the exception of His Love.

I do not understand what this question relates to?

The old earth and old heaven (where we are now) will be destroyed.

Why did Peter make a comparison between the old heavens and earth, and those that are now existing?

I never suggested there was no figurative language in scripture, but Peter in the context of the fire destruction of the earth, elements and heaven uses the flood which we agree is not figurative.

Whether by water or otherwise, is not the issue, being discussed.

Gen. 9:21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent.

What does that have to do with our discussion?

Oops. Genesis 8:21.
So you believe God will burn up all the animals.

God is not “promising” to not destroy the earth, but does promise not to destroy the earth with water.

I read... “I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man’s heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done."
Every living thing, includes animals.
What will happen to the birds of heaven, the creatures in the sea, and all the crawling, insects, and land animals, when God incinerates the physical heavens and physical earth, as you are saying?

Again, God’s promises concerning a future pleasing to some people (keep the earth around) would still be contingent on the good behavior of those people (Jer.18).

Yes, there are good people living on the earth, whom God will not destroy. 1 John 2:15-17
The world existing at present, will be destroyed, but people will remain on the earth, which God will not destroy. Revelation 11:18

Christ had something that they could not learn and/or develop, but could be gifted to them.

Psalms 115:16 The highest heavens belong to the Lord, but the earth he has given to mankind.

If fleshly people (mankind) and not (like the angels) no longer exist then the earth no longer needs to exist, so the earth is not being stated as everlasting in the Psalm.

The scriptures say that not only people (mankind), but the earth, will be around. Matthew 6:10
Did you ever answer that question, which I repeatedly asked? When will Matthew 6:10 be fulfilled.
Thy will be done on earth, did not take place at Pentecost... did it?

“God is our Father and wants all to be saved” so He is not going to give us a snake when we need bread. God as our Shepherd Father would lead us to the very best place.

What's wrong with an earth cleaned up of wicked people? Psalm 37:9-11

For God to put us in anything less than the very best place is just contrary to who God is.

The very best?
What is your idea of "the very best", and why does God have to give you the very best?
When asked for "the very best", what did Jesus tell James and John? Matthew 20:22, 23

According to Jesus, the very best, does not belong to all God's children, but only those God has selected, for the special privilege of ruling with his son. Luke 22:28-30; Luke 12:32; Revelation 7:1-4; Revelation 14:1-4; Revelation 20:4, 6; Revelation 5:9, 10
The others do enjoy the gift of life, which they appreciated, as lowly and meek ones. Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:9-11, 29

A “physical heaven and earth” is the best place for physical human people, but we are to be like the angels and God did not place angels on a physical earth.

The earth was made for humans. The heavens were made for God, and his heavenly family. Psalm 115:16
Christ unites both families, those on earth, and those in heaven - as one family. Ephesians 1:10; Revelation 7:9,13-17; Revelation 21:1-4

Thus God fulfills his purpose for mankind, and the earth.

 

[CoreyD]

Jesus either talked about a real place or a figurative place in the Lazarus parable, so something like that is what I imagine.

It does not make any real difference to me, I just want to be with Christ.

Earlier, you said, one does not have to be in heaven to be with Jesus.
So, I think you really mean, you just want to go to heaven.

That has been drilled into our head, from the time we could say "DaDa," "Mama".
So many people, like yourself, have their heart set on heaven.

Some people... millions of them, are happy with the gift God holds out to those who are righteous... wherever that may be.
Whether heaven or earth, they know that they will be part of God's universal family. One family under God. 1 Corinthians 15:28

Jesus sais, it is the meek that will inherit the earth Matthew 5:5, and those who are chosen as sons in heaven, have to be faithful even when facing death, in order to receive the crown of life. Revelation 2:10

A meek person is easily imposed on; submissive, and humble.
So that they are content with what they are given.
Would you be happy to live on an earth free of wicked people, free of suffering and death, where everyone loves God and neighbor, and are united under God's rule?

What are you imagining about this paradise?

Just what the Bible says...

• An earth where God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” Revelation 21:3, 4
• An earth where no inhabitant will say, “I am sick”; the people who dwell there will be forgiven their iniquity. Isaiah 33:24
• An earth where the wicked will be no more; though you look carefully at his place, he will not be there. But the meek shall inherit the earth/land and delight themselves in abundant peace. Psalm 37:10, 11
• An earth where the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow will graze near the bear. The cub and the calf will lie down together. The lion will eat hay like a cow. The infant will play by the cobra’s den, and the toddler will reach into the viper’s nest. Isaiah 11:6-9 Imagine not seeing animals tear other animals to pieces. I look forward to that.
• An earth where the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind. No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, but they shall build houses and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit. They shall not build and another inhabit; they shall not plant and another eat; for like the days of a tree shall the days of these people be, and they shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall not labor in vain or bear children for calamity. The wolf and the lamb shall graze together; the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust shall be the serpent’s food. They shall not hurt or destroy. Isaiah 65:17-21

...and more.

He appeared in a closed room and disappeared. Having omnipresent is a deity ability, but I do not know if Christ had that ability at this time.

To disappear and appear somewhere else isn't omnipresent, though. The angels do that.
Be back later.

 

[CoreyD]

Jesus and the thief went to paradise, but I do not know where that is.

The reason you do not know, is because the scriptures do not tell you this. You simply stated what you believe, with no evidence at all that it is true.
No scripture in the Bible says that Jesus and the thief went to paradise.
Can you find one?

 

[CoreyD]

Do you mean a “physical body” like the one we have will be resurrected?

With what body did Jesus resurrect Lazarus? It was a physical body, wasn't it.
What body will an unrighteous person be resurrected with? An earthly body, isn't it? John 5:28, 29; Revelation 20:12
Since the righteous do not all go to heaven, but will be right here on earth, they need earthly bodies, don't they. Daniel 7:13, 14, 27; John 11:24; Revelation 21:3, 4

You should realize that some (not all scripture) is figurative and we have to look at the context from which the verse I quoted.

That's good.

OK, I read your thread and posts.

Appreciate you taking the time.

With your understanding, do you see the choice to accept God, exactly the same for an unbeliever living during the 1000 years and those living today?

The choice to obey God, or not, yes. Revelation 20:12-15

What are the differences between our fleshly body we have now on earth and our heavenly bodies you feel we have in this 1000 year reign?

Concerning those who go to heaven to reign with Christ for the 1,000 years, the scriptures say...
Philippians 3:20, 21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body.

1 Corinthians 15:49, 50
And as we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Now I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood is not able to inherit the kingdom of God, nor does decay inherit immortality.

There are others. Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 5:1-5
Those adopted sons Ephesians 1:5 - heirs of the kingdom James 2:5, are not we.
Ephesians 1:5 - He predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

Paul was speaking to the Church - the body of Christ, who make up the little flock, the Father took delight to give the kingdom. These are not the multitude, that is mentioned at Revelation 7:9, who were not sealed for heavenly adoption, as those mentioned in Revelation 7:1-4.

Those living on earth will not have spiritual bodies, but they will be flesh, just like the animals. 1 Corinthians 15:39-41

With your understanding: why is it not much more dangerous to have the choice now, since it is so easy to reject God’s Love while on earth, than to avoid making the choice until the thousand year reign, since you would have a ton of unquestionable knowledge and a 1000 years to process that knowledge in order to come to the conclusion of heaven over hell? In the 1000 years, it is almost like having a gun to your head to choose hell, but here and now a sinners just do not have to believe there is a hell to feel comfortable sinning.

I do not understand your question.
It contains a lot of presumptions, that are not scripturally related, but I will try my best to decipher it.

The idea that it is "so easy to reject God’s Love while on earth", is based on misinformation, since, the angels in heaven (some say, a third) rejected God’s Love. Satan the Devil, being the chief rebel.

I'm not sure where you got the idea of "a ton of unquestionable knowledge" from.
Perhaps you can quote a scripture, if they are any, but I have a strong feeling, this is an idea, which you, and, perhaps others, have formulated.

The "heaven over hell" belief is not scriptural, since all the dead go to Hades (what people call hell), and all the good do not go to heaven, and the earth is not garbage to God, to be incinerated.

The people in the 1000 year reign would not need “faith”, since the knowledge of God’s existence and Love surrounds them. There is not free will choice with likely alternatives.

Where did you get this from? Please provide the scripture.

Help me out here, I see this messed up world, right now, being the very best place for willing individual to fulfill their earthly objective (make a truly free will choice with likely alternatives, to accept God’s Love in the form of forgiveness) and that is the reason humans spend time on earth, but you seem to be suggesting that the Garden Eden where two sinless people sinned is a better place?

So, you think the purpose for God creating the earth, is as a testing ground, to get a ticket to heaven?
Can i get a scripture, that even hints on an idea like that.

Were the angels in heaven sinless? Yet they sinned.
What is the difference between heaven and earth, when it comes to sinning?

After the 1000 years is there a second resurrection to heaven?

Some persons think there will be a resurrection after the 1,000 years, but based on the scriptures, this cannot be true, since the first resurrection is for the Saints - 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; Revelation 20:4, 6.
The second resurrection takes place in the hour during the 1,000 years. John 5:28, 29; Revelation 20:12-14
Judgment occurs during the 1,000 years. not after. John 5:29

You are too fixated on heaven, but I understand. It was drilled into my head from a young age too, but I did not hold on to it, since the scriptures said something quite different to what the church teaches.

“Rest” is what the Jews were supposed to do on the Sabbath (not work). Worship is not work so is rest.

I thought you referred to the place, as in "resting place".

What translation are you finding “earth” in 1 Cor. 15:24-28?

That was in reference to rulership. The kingdom of God, which Christ will hand over to his father, after he has accomplished everything, and God will rule both heaven and earth.
That is in Ephesians 1:10

How are you interpreting: 1 Cor. 15: 35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

I don't interpret it. It speaks for itself.

• But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?” What kind of body is the dead raised with?
• You foolish person! What you sow is not made alive (zóopoieó: to make alive) unless it dies. Senseless person. One must die first before being given a new body.
• And what you sow is not the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or something else. What you sow, is a seed, not the body that the seed will become. What dies is not the body.
• But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. God gives each resurrected one a body, as he chooses, according to each one that died.

...and here is an important point, following that statement I highlighted in blue.

• For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.
• There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But the splendor of the heavenly bodies is of one degree, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is of another.

I hope you got the point.
God gives each a body accordingly.
So, those resurrected to heaven will get the appropriate body - a spirit body.
those resurrected to earth will get a human body - earthly.

You kept me up past my bed time.
Later.

 

[bling]

There is no scripture in the Bible, I am aware of, that supports this idea.
Can you provide any scripture that says this?

You have to first know and understand: “Man’s objective” and then we can look at the very best scenario for willing individual to fulfill that objective. So what is it?

You need to understand what it means for God to unconditionally and unselfishly Love us. So, what is God’s Love?

You need to look around and understand this world with: death, tragedies of all kinds, satan roaming around, sin, hell and evil.

Is that what you get from that verse?
Interesting, but that word from God's mouth, is his utterances - his proclamations, promises... etc.
These will not "return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it."
Just "as rain and snow fall from heaven and do not return without watering the earth, making it bud and sprout, and providing seed to sow and food to eat," Isaiah 55:10

The proclamation will succeed.
Hence, God's purpose never fails.
I'm glad we agree on that.

So did God's purpose for the earth fail?
At this time, it seems I must ask this:
What is God's purpose for the earth? In other words, why did God create the earth? Please answer by means of scripture.

You keep going back to the nonissue and avoid the real issue.

We agree: “Earth was created for mankind”, that is not the issue.

Please address the real questions:

• If mankind ceases to exist does the earth need to exist?
• Given What Jesus said: Matthew 22:30 “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven., Luke 20: 35… the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.” Is the being which rises from the grave like a human (Mankind) or like an angel?
• Look at what Paul tells us: 1 Cor. 15: 36 “How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, …38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body….42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
• If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we[g] bear the image of the heavenly man.” Is Paul not telling us what goes into the grave (being like Adam/ earthly flesh) does not come out of the grave since it is Spiritual, not like mankind but Spiritual like angels?
• Is Jesus goes on to teach us that at least some “dead” have risen already when said: …even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”? So, is the same physical bodies in the Spiritual realm running around or are their physical bodies still in the grave?
• Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.” Will dust comeback to life after the grave or will a Spiritual body rise?
• You tried to discount the transfiguration to be just a “vision” and thus not have a risen very different Moses appearing on earth, but when is there ever in scripture, groups (like the three that went with Christ) have the exact same “vision” at the exact same time? The idea of having multiple witnesses is proof it really happened, so where is it described as a multiple vision?
• The earthly objective for man, I see given in scripture, does not work in the 1000 year reign, so what is wrong with man’s objective?
• It is pretty obvious to me and others: this messed up world right now the way it is, is the very best place for willing individuals to fulfill their earthly objective, so what do you see as the problem or could be better?

OK, meaning you agree that both Revelation and parables use analogies, I take it.


All parables use symbolic representation, even though some elements - not all, are relatable.


the earth and everything done in it will be found means this earth is where we live now, so be righteous, since it will not last?
No bling. That is not what the earth and everything done in it will be found means.
It means the earth and everything done in it will be discovered/clearly seen.

So, 2 Peter 3:10 does not say the earth will be burnt up, or destroyed.
What about the heavens? The heavens (figurative) will pass away, and the elements (of knowledge) will be consumed, be dissolved, destroyed, set at naught.

I cannot convince you that Peter is using figurative language, here, but the scriptures aren't going to literally speak, so we can call it a day on this.


Okay.
Why do you think the NIV, and all the other translations, that used "land", at Psalm 37:11, use "earth" at Matthew 5:5, where Jesus quotes from Psalm 37:11?
Matthew 5:5 - Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. (NIV)

Was Jesus talking about land in Israel here, or was he referring to future earth?

This messed up world (or earth) is what we (the meek) right now have inherited and thus must deal with. Yes, we inherit this problem, but problems are opportunities. We get to allow the Spirit to work through us making disciples (helping others).

It did?
Please provide the scripture that tells us this.

Matthew 16:28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Matthew 11:12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, and violent people have been raiding it.

Matthew 12:28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

John 18:36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

We can spend a lot of time on the “Kingdom”, so tell me if you agree: The Kingdom of God is not a physical earthly place with boundaries and walls, but in the Spiritual realm, so Christ even while wandering around on earth was in the Kingdom of God. The Holy Spirit is also in the Kingdom of God, so if a person has the indwelling Holy Spirit, they also would be in the Kingdom?

The indwelling permanent portion of the Holy Spirit came on Pentecost.

If you believe that though, do you also believe that Pentecost 33 CE was acharith: the end? Daniel 2:28, 44

28 But there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries, and He has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will happen in acharith: the end. Your dream and the visions that came into your mind as you lay on your bed were these:​

44 In the days of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will shatter all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, but will itself stand forever.​

This is for another topic, but do you believe the feet of iron and clay represents a kingdom after Rome - the legs of iron?

I think we might agree but lets stick to the topic.

Those who are like angels are resurrected to heaven, yes. They are immortal - having a spirit body that is neither male nor female. 1 Corinthians 15:53, 54; Galatians 3:28

This is said of all those who rise from the grave, there is nothing of dust coming out of the grave.

That does not apply to every place where you see the word ""forever"
Therefore, to take everyone of these scriptures, and say the word forever, is indefinite, one has to have a scriptural basis for doing so.

• A generation goes and a generation comes, But the earth remains forever. Ecclesiastes 1:4
• He built His sanctuary like the heights, like the earth He has established forever. Psalm 78:69
• He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever. Psalm 104:5

Can you provide a scriptural basis for saying that any one of those scriptures is not definite?
The one at Psalm 78:69 is clear, as it uses the comparison of the earth being established for ever, to the elevation of God's sanctuary.

Therefore, we can be sure of the fact that the earth is established forever.

It makes no difference to me if the earth remains forever, since the earth is only good for mankind, so if there are no “mankind” around, the earth is not needed.

The earth was not made for “angel kind” and we rise to be like the angels.

I agree.
Therefore, God's purpose for the earth is going to be fulfilled according to his will. Do you agree?

OK but: It makes no difference to me if the earth remains forever, since the earth is only good for mankind, so if there are no “mankind” around, the earth is not needed.

The earth was not made for “angel kind” and we rise to be like the angels.

Please provide the scriptures that tells us what our earthly objective is, and that eternal life is the result of fulfilling that objective.

The word “objective” nor “Mission Statement” are used in scripture, but the greatest Command which all other command are derived from and subordinated to, would be the objective. If it is not than what “objective” would override them?

Matthew 22:40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Mark 12: 28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[e] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[f] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[g] There is no commandment greater than these.”

32 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33 To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

Eternal life as the result:

Luke 10: 25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?” 27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[c]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]” 28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

 

[bling]

What I get from this is, love of God and neighbor, is man's objective.
Is that what you are trying to say here?

We have to first obtain this unique: “Love”, so how does scripture say we can do that?

You seem to be saying that love of God and neighbor are what you focus on, and so understanding Revelation isn't that important.
Is that what you are saying?

I have read and studied Revelations and have a student right now, which wants to study revelations, since his Chinese friends are asking him questions about it.

Interesting, indeed.
What do you think of Matthew 24:14?
Do you think the West is very much included there?

Yes, but do not know what “whole world” might mean.

Perhaps you did not look at the Linguistic evidence, then.

I did.

I'm concerned with what the Bible says.
No unrighteous person goes to heaven, and those who die, go to the grave, where they await the resurrection on the last day, according to the Bible.

I think the thief showed his righteousness in repenting and confessing, maybe they joined Moses, Abraham, Jacob and Isaac for diner together.

 

[armchairscholar]

Scientists and Creationists alike, believe our planet earth will be destroyed.

Spoiler: Scientists View

Today, the sun is an essential source of gravity and energy. But one day, it will cause Earth's demise. As the solar system's central star ages, its life cycle will eventually consume our blue marble.

So how long does Earth have until the planet is swallowed by the sun? Expected time of death: several billion years from now. But life on Earth will end much, much sooner than that.

Earth will become unlivable for most organisms in about 1.3 billion years due to the sun's natural evolution, experts told Live Science. And humans could potentially drive ourselves (and countless other species) to extinction within the next few centuries, if the current pace of human-made climate change isn't mitigated, or as a consequence of nuclear war.
Today, the sun is an essential source of gravity and energy. But one day, it will cause Earth's demise. As the solar system's central star ages, its life cycle will eventually consume our blue marble.

Source: How long will Earth exist?

Creationists use 2 Peter 3:5-7 as the basis for their belief that our planet earth will be destroyed.

What does the Bible say about planet earth, and it's purpose?
God created the earth for mankind to live on. To be man's dwelling place - their home.
Isaiah 45:18


Psalm 115:16


Has God changed his mind about his purpose, for the earth?
God answers:
I, the LORD, do not change. Malachi 3:6
The righteous will inherit the earth and dwell in it forever. Psalm 37:29

Has God decided that planet earth is too bad to live on, and so decides to totally destroy it?
God answers:
A generation goes and a generation comes, But the earth remains forever. Ecclesiastes 1:4
He built His sanctuary like the heights, like the earth He has established forever. Psalm 78:69
He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever. Psalm 104:5

Thus, the earth remains forever, and righteous mankind will inhabit it, forever.
God's purpose for the earth will be a reality.

What will conditions be like on the earth, when the righteous inherit it?

I've just finished reading the intriguing piece you sent me about the Earth's fate, and I felt compelled to share my thoughts with you.

Historically throughout the ages, people have sought to reconcile scientific discoveries with religious beliefs. This text exemplifies that ongoing dialogue. The scientific view, predicting Earth's demise billions of years hence, speaks to our human desire to understand our place in the cosmos. Yet, it also highlights our limitations – we can predict cannot control, such cosmic events.

The biblical interpretation, on the other hand, reflects humanity's deep-seated need for permanence and purpose. The verses cited emphasize God's unchanging nature and His promise of an eternal Earth for the righteous. This view offers comfort and hope, addressing our psychological need for stability and meaning in an often chaotic world.

I'm struck by how both perspectives grapple with human mortality and our species' long-term survival. The scientific view confronts us with our finite existence, Although the religious interpretation offers a form of continuity beyond our individual lives.

It's interesting that both viewpoints acknowledge change and potential destruction differ in the ultimate outcome. This tension between change and permanence is a recurring theme in human thought and belief systems.

I find myself contemplating how these views might be reconciled. Perhaps the promise of an eternal Earth could be understood metaphorically, representing God's enduring love and provision for His creation, rather than a literal, physical permanence.

In the end, I believe both perspectives serve to remind us of our responsibility as stewards of this planet. Whether Earth's fate is determined by cosmic forces or divine will, our duty to care for our home and each other remains paramount.

What are your thoughts on this? I'd be curious to hear your perspective.

 

[bling]

So earth was made for physical people?
When did God change his mind about having physical people live on earth?

He never changed His mind; they did live on earth for as long as physical people were around.

When does God get rid of all the physical earthly people?

When Christ comes again, they come out of the grave a spiritual beings or are changed in a blink of the eye.

Why did Peter make a comparison between the old heavens and earth, and those that are now existing?

The old earth and heaven is where we are now.

Oops. Genesis 8:21.
So you believe God will burn up all the animals.

Yes

I read... “I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man’s heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done."
Every living thing, includes animals.
What will happen to the birds of heaven, the creatures in the sea, and all the crawling, insects, and land animals, when God incinerates the physical heavens and physical earth, as you are saying?

Die

Yes, there are good people living on the earth, whom God will not destroy. 1 John 2:15-17
The world existing at present, will be destroyed, but people will remain on the earth, which God will not destroy. Revelation 11:18

Where does it say people in the grave will rise out of the grave and not be like the angels?

The scriptures say that not only people (mankind), but the earth, will be around. Matthew 6:10
Did you ever answer that question, which I repeatedly asked? When will Matthew 6:10 be fulfilled.
Thy will be done on earth, did not take place at Pentecost... did it?

Who can change God’s will?

God has a desire type “will” (all to be saved), which will never be fulfilled as long as humans (mankind) exist, but God also has a “will”, which He is doing (100%) with all He can to help willing individuals in fulfilling their earthly objective, this is being fulfilled.

I thought this answered your question.

What's wrong with an earth cleaned up of wicked people? Psalm 37:9-11

The very best?
What is your idea of "the very best", and why does God have to give you the very best?
When asked for "the very best", what did Jesus tell James and John? Matthew 20:22, 23

They had to do stuff, it was not God not doing stuff.

This is like many Old Testament promises to the nation of Israel.

There is a long list of what they must do, so God will remove wicked:

Trust in the Lord and do good;

4 Take delight in the Lord,…

5 Commit your way to the Lord;

trust in him…

6 He will make your righteous reward shine like the dawn,…

7 Be still before the Lord

and wait patiently for him;

do not fret when people succeed in their ways,…

8 Refrain from anger and turn from wrath;

do not fret…

So we have a Jer. 18 contingency dependent on the nation of Israel.

You have to leave the flesh (being a mankind) to eliminate the wicked.

According to Jesus, the very best, does not belong to all God's children, but only those God has selected, for the special privilege of ruling with his son. Luke 22:28-30; Luke 12:32; Revelation 7:1-4; Revelation 14:1-4; Revelation 20:4, 6; Revelation 5:9, 10

James and John did not know, what they were asking for.

The very best place for me and others, would be where we can best fulfill my earthly objective.

You ask: “why does God have to give you the very best?” Which is right to ask, but God has this very unique illogical Love, that makes Him care for us.

The others do enjoy the gift of life, which they appreciated, as lowly and meek ones. Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:9-11, 29

If I live in the cardboard box in heaven, will you invite me to share your mansion? Where will you sit me at your table, what will you not do for me?

You need to think about how “ruling” would works in the Kingdom.

The only different, “rewards”, I see is in the Love we developed and brought to heaven, so I will Love and serve you less, than you will Love and serve me, so who are the winners and losers with that arrangement?

Christ like “rulers” are the lowest servants of others (feet washers). Are God and Christ not continuing to serve you in heaven (that is what makes Them happy)?

The earth was made for humans. The heavens were made for God, and his heavenly family. Psalm 115:16
Christ unites both families, those on earth, and those in heaven - as one family. Ephesians 1:10; Revelation 7:9,13-17; Revelation 21:1-4

Thus God fulfills his purpose for mankind, and the earth.

With the indwelling Holy Spirit, we are in the kingdom united with those in heaven, right now.

Mankind goes away and there are only Spiritual beings (angel like) left.

 

[Aaron112]

So you believe God will burn up all the animals.

Does it matter.
World wide they are being poisoned daily, many slaughtered.

 

[Aaron112]

Who can change God’s will?

Man's teachings change "God's will" daily.
Man's teachings about heaven and hell are fairytales, not Scripture; not True.

 

[CoreyD]

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we[g] bear the image of the heavenly man.

There is only one resurrection and only one fleshly body and one Spiritual body talked about. The fleshly body dies and gives life to the Spiritual body.

Based on what I have mentioned previously, just take verse 49, and ask one question... Whom is Paul addressing here?

I'll help.
Post #29
God arranged for a kingdom - a heavenly government - to be ruled by his only begotten, who will rule over the earth, after destroying all other kingdoms, and restore the earth to the state God wills it - a paradise. Man's home, where sin and death will be gone forever. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28
Christ selected persons to rule with him, but Christ did not decide that every righteous person would rule. He chose a small number. Luke 12:32; Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 7:1-4; Revelation 14:1-4; Revelation 20:4, 6
These are the Saints.

They will rule with Christ, and be priests and judges with him, for the thousand years. Daniel 7:13, 14, 27; Revelation 5:9, 10

Post #51
Those adopted sons Ephesians 1:5 - heirs of the kingdom James 2:5, are not we.
Ephesians 1:5 - He predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

Paul was speaking to the Church - the body of Christ, who make up the little flock, the Father took delight to give the kingdom. These are not the multitude, that is mentioned at Revelation 7:9, who were not sealed for heavenly adoption, as those mentioned in Revelation 7:1-4.

So that this is not lost...
Questions:
Do you agree that at Hebrews 12:22 Mount Zion refers to heaven?
Do you agree that at Revelation 14:1, the number of persons seen in heavenly Mount Zion, is 144,000?
Do you agree that at Revelation 7:4 those sealed number 144,000, and that number contrasts with the great multitude too large to count, or that no one could number, mentioned at Revelation 7:9?
Do you agree that the number sealed and seen in heaven, are small in comparison to the multitude?
Do you agree that one does not have to be in heaven to be standing before the throne and before the Lamb?

If you disagree please explain why.

How does: “As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Don’t tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.”

Suggest that is a vision and not what they “have seen”.
By the testimony of two or three witnesses, it is to be taken as fact. Jesus took three Peter, James and John, since you might say: “He only had a vision”, but you cannot say that with three witnesses.

ὅραμα - horama, is translated vision in the 12 occurrences where it is found in the Greek scriptures.
Matthew 17:9 N-ANS
GRK: εἴπητε τὸ ὅραμα ἕως οὗ
NAS: them, saying, Tell the vision to no one
KJV: Tell the vision to no man,
INT: tell the vision until that

Acts 7:31 N-ANS
GRK: ἐθαύμαζεν τὸ ὅραμα προσερχομένου δὲ
NAS: it, he marveled at the sight; and as he approached
KJV: [it], he wondered at the sight: and
INT: marveled at the vision coming near moreover

Acts 9:10 N-DNS
GRK: αὐτὸν ἐν ὁράματι ὁ κύριος
NAS: said to him in a vision, Ananias.
KJV: the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And
INT: him in a vision the Lord

Acts 9:12 N-DNS
GRK: ἄνδρα ἐν ὁράματι Ἁνανίαν ὀνόματι
NAS: and he has seen in a vision a man
KJV: hath seen in a vision a man named
INT: a man in a vision Ananias by name

Acts 10:3 N-DNS
GRK: εἶδεν ἐν ὁράματι φανερῶς ὡσεὶ
NAS: saw in a vision an angel
KJV: He saw in a vision evidently about
INT: He saw in a vision plainly as if

Acts 10:17 N-NNS
GRK: εἴη τὸ ὅραμα ὃ εἶδεν
NAS: as to what the vision which
KJV: what this vision which
INT: might be the vision which he was

Acts 10:19 N-GNS
GRK: περὶ τοῦ ὁράματος εἶπεν αὐτῷ
NAS: was reflecting on the vision, the Spirit
KJV: thought on the vision, the Spirit said
INT: over the vision said to him

Acts 11:5 N-ANS
GRK: ἐν ἐκστάσει ὅραμα καταβαῖνον σκεῦός
NAS: I saw a vision, an object
KJV: I saw a vision, A certain
INT: in a trance a vision descending a vessel

Acts 12:9 N-ANS
GRK: ἐδόκει δὲ ὅραμα βλέπειν
NAS: but thought he was seeing a vision.
KJV: thought he saw a vision.
INT: he thought moreover a vision he was seeing

Acts 16:9 N-NNS
GRK: καὶ ὅραμα διὰ τῆς
NAS: A vision appeared to Paul
KJV: And a vision appeared to Paul
INT: And a vision during the

Acts 16:10 N-ANS
GRK: δὲ τὸ ὅραμα εἶδεν εὐθέως
NAS: he had seen the vision, immediately
KJV: he had seen the vision, immediately
INT: moreover the vision he saw immediately

Acts 18:9 N-GNS
GRK: νυκτὶ δι' ὁράματος τῷ Παύλῳ
NAS: in the night by a vision, Do not be afraid
KJV: the night by a vision, Be not
INT: night by a vision to Paul

Do you think the scholarly view is unacceptable in this instance?
Twelve scriptural "witnesses" all testify to ὅραμα - horama, as referring to seeing a vision.
Do you accept their testimony.

 

[CoreyD]

Ro. 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.

David wrote way after Adam sinned, so are these just shallow promises?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. can you please explain.
What does what David wrote have to do with the fact that God's purpose has not yet come to realization, because Adam sinned, and plunged the human race into sin and death?

God has perfect knowledge of man’s future, so He knows what man did before man knows what he will do, but do you agree with that?

Scripture please.

OK this is addressed with my answering your question on “Man’s objective”I'll answer the last question, first.

Is this something they learn, develop, or instinctively are given? Why did Adam and Eve not have it?

John 8:28
So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own, but speak exactly what the Father has taught Me.

John 5:19, 30
19 So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does.
30 I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

John 12:49
I have not spoken on My own, but the Father who sent Me has commanded Me what to say and how to say it.

John 15:8-10
8 This is to My Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, proving yourselves to be My disciples.
9 As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Remain in My love.
10 If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love.

Please answer the following questions using scriptures only.

• How did the Word - the only begotten son, attain unbreakable love for his father?
• Was the Word - the only begotten son taught?
• Did the Word - the only begotten son get to know his father better than anyone?
• Did the Word - the only begotten son remain in his father's love, because he obeyed the father out of love?

Who better, to explain God. John 1:18
No one has ever yet seen God. The only begotten God, the One being in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known.
If the Word - the only begotten son of God - learned, and his love grew, what about humankind... Would they not have to learn about God, and grow in love for him?

This is why the Word became flesh, so that he could John 18:37
Jesus answered. “For this reason I was born and have come into the world, to testify to the truth.

God raised (programmed) Adam and Eve to adulthood and they had only one way to sin (go apart from God), so why is it easier for those who now have tons of ways to sin?

Can you provide a scripture please. Where did you read in the Bible, that God raised (programmed) Adam and Eve to adulthood?

Those living after Adam,

1. have seen the love of God, and appreciating how great that love is, respond to it, and love God in return 1 John 4:7-11, 16-19. They make every effort not to sin, by hating what is bad in God's eyes, and loving what is good Psalm 97:10; Romans 12:9. They strive to remain in God's love. Jude 1:21
   Adam did not come to know the extent of God's love, and he did not show appreciation, for the little he knew of God's love.
   He had that opportunity, by obeying that one command.
2. choose to serve God on his terms (submit to God's rule), and loyally support his appointed king. They stick to him to the end - loyal, even in the face of humiliation and death Matthew 24:13, while obediently carrying out the work Jesus assigned his followers Matthew 24:14, and seeing firsthand, his loving support. They also support Jesus' brothers, thus showing that they do love God. and his Christ. Matthew 25:34-40
   Adam did not have to endure trials, and prove loyal to God in the face of these.
3. have seen that God is deserving - he is the rightful ruler, lawgiver, and judge, and no one can forever prosper, independent of God.
   Adam did not get to see this as we are seeing it, although he did see the consequences of his disobedience.

Because those of Adam's offspring who choose righteousness, have benefitted from the above, they would not rebel against God, so they are worthy of everlasting life under God's kingdom rule, and they will be sinless, and attain the level of perfection that Adam had the opportunity to gain, but threw away.
Hence, everlasting life, in a restored paradise, would far surpass the paradise of delight Adam enjoyed.

Adam and Eve had a “Great Life” and knew not submitting to God’s one rule results in death.

Yes. How sad they gave up that "great life", and sold their children into misery.

God is this and does this, no matter what humans do, but the question is about humans.

So now, I am confused, are you saying we sin in the 1000 years and/or heaven?

First, I need to know that you understand what I said.

• The angel that sinned - becoming Satan the Devil - was sinless, and in heaven. So were the crowd of heavenly ones that followed him.
• Whether in heaven, or on earth, intelligent creatures can sin.
• The location has nothing to do with sin. So, the idea that heaven is somehow a get away place from sin, is a myth

Do you agree angels can sin, and have sinned... in heaven?
Do you agree therefore that referring to Adam and Eve as sinning although sinless, as a reason to want to live in heaven is not rational, because sin can, and has occurred in heave?

 

[bling]

Man's teachings change "God's will" daily.
Man's teachings about heaven and hell are fairytales, not Scripture; not True.

Can you give the meaning of "will" you are using?