The Problem of Ecocide

[FireDragon76]

According to the late medieval historian Lynn white, Christianity is largely responsible for environmental destruction associated with the spread of western culture. What's noteworthy about Lynn White, besides being a medieval historian (and not an Earth scientist), he was also a devout Presbyterian, the son of a pastor. But he still put the blame for environmental exploitation on Christianity, especially the creation mandate in Genesis, but also the dualistic thinking that places soul and spirit above the physical world. In many cases, Christians were active involved in the destruction of older, nature-based religions, which respected nature as a place of residence of various spirits that had to be considered in any affairs of humanity- sacred groves and springs were particularly common in pre-Christian Europe.

White does point out that there were exceptions, such as St. Francis, who had positive views of the natural world, but his voice was marginalized by the Church and has little influence over the average Christian.

https://www.uvm.edu/~gflomenh/courses/ENV-NGO-PA395/articles/Lynn-White.pdf

 

[Laodicean60]

And the bible says to be good stewards of the earth.

 

[AlexB23]

And the bible says to be good stewards of the earth.

Agreed, as stated in Genesis 2:15. This is a Bible analysis which I compiled a day before Earth Day on three verses, including Genesis 2:15 that tell us not to harm the planet.

Date	April 21, 2024
Verse	Genesis 2:15: "The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it." Isaiah 24:4-6: "The earth dries up and withers, the world languishes and withers, the heavens languish with the earth. The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse consumes the earth; its people must bear their guilt. Therefore earth’s inhabitants are burned up, and very few are left." Jeremiah 2:7: "I brought you into a fertile land to eat its fruit and rich produce. But you came and defiled my land and made my inheritance detestable."
Explanation	These verses from the Bible, Genesis 2:15, Jeremiah 2:7, and Isaiah 24:4-6, speak to the relationship between humanity and the Earth, highlighting our role as stewards and the consequences of disobedience and neglect. Genesis 2:15 sets the stage for God placing Adam in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it, indicating a divine mandate for humans to tend to the Earth. This responsibility extends beyond just working the land but also involves taking good care of it. Jeremiah 2:7 emphasizes God's provision of a fertile land for His people to enjoy its fruit and rich produce, but they defiled it instead. This verse serves as a reminder that we are not the owners of the Earth but rather caretakers, and our actions have consequences on the land and future generations. Isaiah 24:4-6 speaks of the Earth being defiled by its people due to their disobedience and violation of divine laws. The passage suggests a curse upon the Earth, leading to scarcity and destruction. This verse relates to modern issues such as anthropogenic global warming and pollution in that human actions are causing detrimental effects on the Earth, ultimately affecting its ability to sustain life as intended.
Life Anecdote	In the context of our modern world, these verses call us to be good stewards of the Earth and apply biblical principles to mitigate environmental degradation. Here are some ways we can apply these verses to our lives in 2024: 1. Cultivate a mindset of care and respect for the Earth as God's creation, acknowledging our responsibility to tend to it. 2. Reduce our carbon footprint by using renewable energy sources such as wind and solar and adopting ecological practices in daily life (ex. composting, using energy efficient LED bulbs, riding a bike to the store, driving small fuel-efficient Japanese hybrids/crossovers). 3. Support and advocate for environmentally sustainable policies, including reducing plastic use, promoting recycling, investing in public transport & mixed-use urban developments, and minimizing waste. 4. Practice conservation by preserving natural resources and protecting habitats for various species. 5. Educate ourselves and others about the importance of caring for the Earth as a moral imperative, rather than just an environmental concern. 6. Pray for God's guidance in our efforts to be good stewards of the Earth and ask for His help in overcoming challenges related to caring for creation.

 

[FireDragon76]

And the bible says to be good stewards of the earth.

This short video series discusses Christian responses to Lynn White's paper:

Is Christianity to blame? | Beyond Stewardship | University of Exeter

www.exeter.ac.uk

IMO, stewardship is weak as an ethic, as it's still viewing the Earth primarily as a resource.

What I think is interesting about St. Francis was that he bridges the gap between Christianity with panpsychism or animism. Another Christian who did this, albeit of a more scientific orientation, was the French Jesuit priest, Teilhard de Chardin.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Given how the nomination Christian world treats the environment around it (India and China), I am not inclined to think Christianity had any particular liability towards the harming of the environment. It's just what people do, they use and exploit resources

 

[FireDragon76]

I found a lecture by Lynn White and Alan Watts discussing the spiritual roots of the ecological crisis:

 

[AlexB23]

Yo, welcome to the forum, @Ted-01 . Thank you for the agreement on the Gen 2:15 analysis about stewardship.

My name is Alex, and am for responsible stewardship.

 

[FireDragon76]

455876]@Ted-01[/USER] . Thank you for the agreement on the Gen 2:15 analysis about stewardship.

My name is Alex, and am for responsible stewardship.

It seems like the Pope's environmental ethic in Laudato Si run deeper than mere stewardship. "Stewardship" was a concept developed by Anglicans in the 70's under the Anglican Archbishop Michael Ramsey.

Laudato si' (24 May 2015) | Francis

Encyclical Letter Laudato si' of the Holy Father Francis on care for our common home (24 May 2015)

www.vatican.va

 

[Ted-01]

Yo, welcome to the forum, @Ted-01 . Thank you for the agreement on the Gen 2:15 analysis about stewardship.

My name is Alex, and am for responsible stewardship.

Hi Alex, thank you for the greeting! I've followed some of your postings and have enjoyed your insights on many things... you seem to be a great choice for a stewardship role.

Unfortunately, I have to say that I gave the "Wow" emoji because I disagree with the premise that "...Christianity is largely responsible for environmental destruction associated with the spread of western culture."
While I do believe that Christians bear the weight of some culpability, "largely responsible" seems to be a gross over-estimation, IMHO. No doubt, as humanity grew, Christianity influenced many things in and about western culture... but I'm of the mind that people claiming to be Christian, that did atrocious things in regard to the environment as well as social upheaval, (e.g. crusades, the inquisition, Manifest Destiny, harsh slavery, etc.) ... they gave Christianity a black eye and brought shame on Christ himself.

Nevertheless, I do agree that Christians today can do a much better job at environmental stewardship. I've heard some disturbing talk from Christians in my own life, that showed utter disregard for the subject. I pray that we all can do better and truly make an individual a collective effort.

 

[AlexB23]

Hi Alex, thank you for the greeting! I've followed some of your postings and have enjoyed your insights on many things... you seem to be a great choice for a stewardship role.

Unfortunately, I have to say that I gave the "Wow" emoji because I disagree with the premise that "...Christianity is largely responsible for environmental destruction associated with the spread of western culture."
While I do believe that Christians bear the weight of some culpability, "largely responsible" seems to be a gross over-estimation, IMHO. No doubt, as humanity grew, Christianity influenced many things in and about western culture... but I'm of the mind that people claiming to be Christian, that did atrocious things in regard to the environment as well as social upheaval, (e.g. crusades, the inquisition, Manifest Destiny, harsh slavery, etc.) ... they gave Christianity a black eye and brought shame on Christ himself.

Nevertheless, I do agree that Christians today can do a much better job at environmental stewardship. I've heard some disturbing talk from Christians in my own life, that showed utter disregard for the subject. I pray that we all can do better and truly make an individual a collective effort.

Yeah, @FireDragon76 seems to be pinning climate change entirely on Christians, when the real issue is greed. Yes, Christians did bad things, but a lot of other people did bad stuff as well in history, such as Genghis Khan.

 

[AlexB23]

It seems like the Pope's environmental ethic in Laudato Si run deeper than mere stewardship. "Stewardship" was a concept developed by Anglicans in the 70's under the Anglican Archbishop Michael Ramsey.

Laudato si' (24 May 2015) | Francis

Encyclical Letter Laudato si' of the Holy Father Francis on care for our common home (24 May 2015)

www.vatican.va

Well, go back to the Bible study, my friend. Jeremiah and Isaiah warn us about polluting the Earth. We do not need a document from the Vatican to prove that the Bible taught us to take care of the Earth, and protect the environment.

Yes, I am Catholic, but the Bible is a great resource for protecting the Earth already.

 

[someguy35]

only under forthcoming legitimacy and not rhetoric is this true.

Generally speaking, the influx of political persuasion would not allow for these matters to have value or purpose if environmentalism or any other honorable endeavor is only a banner or vehicle for political persuasion which at this point artificial intelligence is being used for that reason.

 

[QvQ]

pity this busy monster, manunkind,
not. Progress is a comfortable disease:

E. E. Cummings

 

[Niels]

And Christians are also largely responsible for kicking puppies and stealing candy from babies. Whatever. I call BS.

People like that often talk about how Christianity is supposedly anti-science and anti-progress, meanwhile blaming Christianity for the unforeseen negative consequences of science and progress. How convenient. All the while extolling the virtues of so-called "noble savages" (which is a racist concept) some of whom were known to perform human sacrifice, practice cannibalism, enslave their enemies, etc. To suggest that they would necessarily be more responsible on environmental issues is a stretch. For instance, the native inhabitants of Easter Island were responsible for its deforestation. Sure, various tribes and some neo-pagans might do a good job of managing environmental issues, but I suspect they would be the exception rather than the rule. Meanwhile, the push to save endangered species etc. happened when Christianity was a majority religion.

That said, I'd argue that there's more of an environmental connection with politics than religion. And not necessarily Democrat vs. Republican. At least not historically. These days, one party seems to favor environmental issues more than the other, but individuals vary.

Which reminds me of all the Nature Conservancy magazines etc. that my grandparents used to have around their houses. The preoccupation that my Dad had with recycling etc. Apparently, they were into this stuff before it was popular, certainly well before the '70s, and they were Christians. They taught their kids to be good stewards of the environment. I don't remember this as being an uncommon attitude to have back in the '80s, even among Republicans. Reduce, reuse, recycle. Save a watt. Stop pollution, etc.

But yeah, to blame Christians for environmental issues doesn't parse with the reality that I've experienced. Actual contributors are more likely political and economic.

 

[FireDragon76]

And Christians are also largely responsible for kicking puppies and stealing candy from babies. Whatever. I call BS.

People like that often talk about how Christianity is supposedly anti-science and anti-progress, meanwhile blaming Christianity for the unforeseen negative consequences of science and progress. How convenient. All the while extolling the virtues of so-called "noble savages" (which is a racist concept) some of whom were known to perform human sacrifice, practice cannibalism, enslave their enemies, etc.

But they weren't knowingly committing mass violence against nature. In fact some of their beliefs (animism or panpsychism) militated against that. Modern American Christians don't have that excuse. They know what they are doing is causing grave harm, but they don't seem to care, for the most part (this is even true in relatively liberal denominations, like my own).

To suggest that they would necessarily be more responsible on environmental issues is a stretch. For instance, the native inhabitants of Easter Island were responsible for its deforestation. Sure, various tribes and some neo-pagans might, do a good job of managing environmental issues, but I suspect they would be the exception rather than the rule. Meanwhile, the push to save endangered species etc. happened when Christianity was a majority religion.

I think its easier for some non-western people to understand why taking care of nature might be a good thing, especially if they view humanity as having a natural kinship with it.

 

[Niels]

But they weren't knowingly committing mass violence against nature. In fact some of their beliefs (animism or panpsychism) militated against that. Modern American Christians don't have that excuse. They know what they are doing is causing grave harm, but they don't seem to care, for the most part (this is even true in relatively liberal denominations, like my own).



I think its easier for some non-western people to understand why taking care of nature might be a good thing, especially if they view humanity as having a natural kinship with it.

I haven't evidence to suggest that any religion is knowingly committing mass violence against nature. Those who harm the environment, Christian and non-Christian alike, more often than not seem ignorant or misinformed. Driven by political and economic motivators rather than ill intent.

Are you suggesting that Christians don't have a natural kinship with nature? Some may not, but I would say that's despite their faith not because of it. Many connect with creation in profound ways. Which reminds me of one of my favorite hymns.

 

[FireDragon76]

I haven't evidence to suggest that any religion is knowingly committing mass violence against nature. Those who harm the environment, Christian and non-Christian alike, more often than not seem ignorant or misinformed. Driven by political and economic motivators rather than ill intent.

I find ignorance to be difficult to understand as an excuse. Willfull ignorance, perhaps, but that's still culpable.

Are you suggesting that Christians don't have a natural kinship with nature? Some may not, but I would say that's despite their faith not because of it. Many connect with creation in profound ways. Which reminds me of one of my favorite hymns.

That's just one sentimentally romantic hymn out of a vast multitude. It also speaks of God's immanence in nature, but not nature's kinship with humanity.

 

[linux.poet]

So far, I think that environmental destruction has been caused by capitalism and the scientific and industrial revolutions, not Christianity. Historically, Christianity existed for 400 years before the Industrial Revolution began, so naming Christianity as the cause of it feels like a stretch.

However, I do think that the Cross was an indirect cause of the scientific and Industrial Revolutions. The reason why is that humanity basically stayed at the same level of technological development for thousands of years before the cross. There were some minor improvements, but the average person was still plowing their field with draft animals and sewing their own clothes while taking care of their large numbers of unlikely-to-survive-to-adulthood children. But with the completed canon of Scripture and the Holy Spirit picking away at our collective stupidity from years of inherited sin nature, we recovered our senses and started perceiving our world more correctly.

And then we used all those new discoveries to enhance our own comfort and benefit ourselves at creation’s expense. After all, we’d suffered enough from all those thorns and thistles, time for revenge.

Those conflicts and disputes among you, where do they come from? Do they not come from your cravings that are at war within you? You want something and do not have it, so you commit murder. And you covet something and cannot obtain it, so you engage in disputes and conflicts. You do not have because you do not ask. You ask and do not receive because you ask wrongly, in order to spend what you get on your pleasures. Adulterers! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

I can’t really say that God approves of our actions. After all, the Industrial Revolution gave birth to two world wars. And while James was talking about disputes between believers and covetousness, apparently the world has big cravings and likes murdering people and spending what it gets on pleasure. Very true.

Recently I’ve been reading a book by an evolutionist who claims that evolution actually is an ideological descendent of Adam Smith’s capitalist thought, and what he is saying makes sense to me. If God is in charge of creation, we are responsible to Him for how we use it, but if it evolved from random chance, we can use it how we like for our own benefit and are responsible to nobody. We aren’t even responsible to God for the cruelties we inflict on each other, because we are slightly more intelligent monkeys anyway who can lose fingers and jaws and limbs for progress. No big deal. Respool the thread please, little girl, I’m spending my night at the Ritz Carlton. James knows our world well, how cruel and thoughtless it is.

So if you’re looking who to blame for environmental destruction, I believe it is the evolutionist who has a lot to answer for, not the Christian.