The "Orthobro" Movement Makes Orthodoxy Look Bad...But Are They Heretical?

[AveChristusRex]

This is a pretty self-explanitory post. Let me say first that when I have conversations with those who call themselves "Orthodox" (i.e., attend Church, have a few icons, maybe are confirmed, etc) do not understand Church history, arguing the same, repetitive points against the 'two-lung' analogy with (no joke) one person telling me that they trust Jay Dyer more than their Orthodox priest. Is this a heretical movement within Orthodoxy? We hear many things about the zealous Catholics (Sedevacantists, Conclavists, etc) but they are heretical, and are condemned as such; but I do not see any condemnation from the Eastern lung over these folks.

They make Orthodoxy look really bad, what do yall think? Are they tolerable or just flat out erroneous/heretical?

 

[jas3]

We hear many things about the zealous Catholics (Sedevacantists, Conclavists, etc) but they are heretical, and are condemned as such; but I do not see any condemnation from the Eastern lung over these folks.

Sedevacantists are more akin to the schismatic "true orthodox" or "genuine orthodox." The "orthobros" are more like Catholic "radtrads."

 

[AveChristusRex]

Sedevacantists are more akin to the schismatic "true orthodox" or "genuine orthodox." The "orthobros" are more like Catholic "radtrads."

Good point, but even "radtrads" in Catholicism are teetering on error, or are too ignorant to realize they are in error, are the orthobros (generally) the same?

 

[ArmyMatt]

not heretical from what I have seen. obnoxious and asinine at times, but not heretical. certainly not formally heretical.

 

[Lukaris]

I get the impression that some may be genuinely socially discarded and alienated at the onset. I pray that they all find fellowship in Orthodoxy and a way to live by faith with discernment in truth not judgment of our neighbor.

If monasticism is appealing to any of them, may it be encouraged. One does not have to be monastic if one is individualistic and fellowship need only be a positive disposition.

Coming off the Sunday of the Publican & Pharisee ( Luke 18:9-14) may we all continue our faith like the publican ( Philippians 2:12 etc.). not necessary discarding the works of the Pharisee but acquire the mind of the publican ( Ephesians 2:8-10).

 

[Malleeboy]

From an outsiders perspective, Orthobros tend to have a jurisdictional hierarchy, which seems to run somewhat contrary to the creedal belief in the oneness of the church.
They generally hold St Cyprian as the greatest western saint, and St Augustine as the source of all western errors.
Many will shop jurisdiction to obtain baptism, even when they have had a western baptism and feel cheated if their bishop indicates reception by chrismation rather then baptism.

 

[AveChristusRex]

From an outsiders perspective, Orthobros tend to have a jurisdictional hierarchy, which seems to run somewhat contrary to the creedal belief in the oneness of the church.
They generally hold Cyprian as the greatest western saint, and Augustine as the source of all western errors.
Many will shop jurisdiction to obtain baptism, even when they have had a western baptism and feel cheated if their bishop indicates reception by chrismation rather then baptism.

I do think these individuals are lacking a lot of the graces given through obedience to the beatitudes, as a lot of them are obstinant and use a strange way of converting people to their position (which I irk to call Orthodoxy), but I cannot see how they are heretical, though teetering on error (unless they reject the Church heiarchy, then in full-blown schism)

 

[Lukaris]

From an outsiders perspective, Orthobros tend to have a jurisdictional hierarchy, which seems to run somewhat contrary to the creedal belief in the oneness of the church.
They generally hold Cyprian as the greatest western saint, and Augustine as the source of all western errors.
Many will shop jurisdiction to obtain baptism, even when they have had a western baptism and feel cheated if their bishop indicates reception by chrismation rather then baptism.

I know at one time I had apprehension about St. Augustine thinking he was some kind of ivory tower theologian with Pharisee tendencies. He may have been an ivory tower intellect when a pagan but not as a Christian. I later learned that he contended for Christian faith under intense physical & mental hardship. He had to contend with Arians, Pelagian, & Donatists risking his life at times. I tend to believe stress & a need to precisely correct heresy around him prevented him
from more subtle faith expression in certain crucial matters ( especially “original sin”).

 

[AveChristusRex]

I know at one time I had apprehension about St. Augustine thinking he was some kind of ivory tower theologian with Pharisee tendencies. He may have been an ivory tower intellect when a pagan but not as a Christian. I later learned that he contended for Christian faith under intense physical & mental hardship. He had to contend with Arians, Pelagian, & Donatists risking his life at times. I tend to believe stress & a need to precisely correct heresy around him prevented him from more subtle faith expression in certain crucial matters ( especially “original sin”).

I've never heard that, but even so, I don't think it is anything unlike Palamas's contentions during his life, right?

 

[Lukaris]

I've never heard that, but even so, I don't think it is anything unlike Palamas's contentions during his life, right?

I remember reading that a radical element of Donatists were out to assassinate Augustine & that he died at Hippo ( in Lybia) of natural causes while under Arian siege. The Pelagians ( I don’t think Pelagius himself) were out of control in heresy ( they didn’t try to physically harm Augustine) but they were saying things like good works apart from grace were sufficient for salvation ( the bitter legacy of this is that James & Paul , for example,differed to some on salvation by grace & works & they don’t).

Most of what little I know re St.Augustine is from a well written book ( hi octane for my level) Early Christian Doctrines by JND Kelly & St. Augustine’s compact writing: The Enchiridion. The most I have read on St. Gregory are his compact ( & really good) homilies on the Saving Work of Christ, his Decalogue homily, & his concise defense of hesychasm ( Philokalia vol 4)most of what I know here. I am just a layman who works at a warehouse & as a church janitor.


On St. Gregory:

Amazon.com

On St. Augustine;

Amazon.com

JND Kelly:

Amazon.com

 

[AveChristusRex]

I remember reading that a radical element of Donatists were out to assassinate Augustine & that he died at Hippo ( in Lybia) of natural causes while under Arian siege. The Pelagians ( I don’t think Pelagius himself) were out of control in heresy ( they didn’t try to physically harm Augustine) but they were saying things like good works apart from grace were sufficient for salvation ( the bitter legacy of this is that James & Paul , for example,differed to some on salvation by grace & works & they don’t).

Most of what little I know re St.Augustine is from a well written book ( hi octane for my level) Early Christian Doctrines by JND Kelly & St. Augustine’s compact writing: The Enchiridion. The most I have read on St. Gregory are his compact ( & really good) homilies on the Saving Work of Christ, his Decalogue homily, & his concise defense of hesychasm ( Philokalia vol 4)most of what I know here. I am just a layman who works at a warehouse & as a church janitor.

I will look into it, and dont worry, I am just a student with way too much time, so we are on equal level

 

[Lukaris]

I will look into it, and dont worry, I am just a student with way too much time, so we are on equal level

The Enchiridion of St. Augustine can be found online.

CHURCH FATHERS: Handbook on Faith, Hope and Love (St. Augustine)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

www.newadvent.org

 

[The Liturgist]

not heretical from what I have seen. obnoxious and asinine at times, but not heretical. certainly not formally heretical.

Indeed, and if we’re going to say it is heretical to be obnoxious and asinine I’d be the first one to get anathematized! That’s not even counting the incident where I tripped over the video equipment at a hierarchical liturgy…

 

[Dewi Sant]

Nothing new.
We've all been there.
Some of us had better guidance than others.