• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • Christian Forums is looking to bring on new moderators to the CF Staff Team! If you have been an active member of CF for at least three months with 200 posts during that time, you're eligible to apply! This is a great way to give back to CF and keep the forums running smoothly! If you're interested, you can submit your application here!

The kingdom of God comes not with observation....the observation of an external handwriting of ordinances..

orbiter

Well-Known Member
Apr 1, 2016
715
104
Fl
✟102,961.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Peace in Christ.

The kingdom/government of God does not come with “observation”….the observing of externally-written church handwritings of ordinances/dogmas.

His government/kingdom is within us…in our hearts and in our minds.

Luke 17:20-21 KJV
(20) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
(21) Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.


From within is where our God rules over us. His writing is there. His laws are there….and are not found in an externally-written church handwriting of ordinances. They are internal.

Observing God’s internally-written laws unite us together as we all have the same laws in our hearts and minds. It His covenant with us that we are to keep.

Observing the church scribes’ handwritings of ordinances divide us into “denominations.” They all differ one from another because of their handwritings that divide themselves (Lo, here in this denomination....nor there in the other one).

We are not keeping His covenant He makes with us when we keep and serve…observing…the church handwritings of the church scribes.

Heb 10:16-17 KJV
(16) This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

(17) And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

The word “Pharisee” means “separatist”. The modern-day “Pharisees” are those who separate themselves into “denominations”…divisions…where they self-govern and judge themselves by their respective handwritings: their statements of faith, church constitutions, by-laws, statutes, creeds, etc, etc, etc.

This is all man-based…just like the nations around us who do not know God and have to make their documents (such as “constitutions”) to govern and judge themselves with their “gods”…their weak and beggarly elements…their founding principles.

We are not to copy the outside nations by doing this who have their own governmental documents. They are “IMAGES” as they are copied from the nations around us that do not know God nor worship Him.

Gal 4:8-9 KJV
(8) Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

(9) But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

The "graven image" is the graven-by-the-pen handwritings of church scribes....who make documents that are patterned after the world around us who do not know God.

Exo 20:1-5 KJV
(1) And God spake all these words, saying,
(2) I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
(3) Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

We are not to make handwritings of ordinances that are patterned/taken from the Scriptures (heaven above) nor that is in the earth beneath (the outside nations surrounding us such as their "constitutions") or that is in the water under the earth....the teachings of dead men who are dead and buried.

(4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

The LORD our God (meaning "JUDGE") is a jealous Judge. Men have made their "images"...their handwritings of church ordinances...in order to judge themselves with (and others also). These church handwritings of the church "fathers" are passed down from one generation to another who continue to keep and serve them. They do not move out of their places in their churches. They "hate" Him because they keep and serve man's commandments over His.

(5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Man-based churches are separated by the writings of their “scribes”…their church scribes ….that have made a “graven image:” making an externally-written handwriting of ordinances/dogmas for themselves to keep and serve.

They shut up the kingdom/government of heaven as they cause their congregants/observers to keep and serve their handwritings of ordinances rather than the internally-written laws of God. Their church “government” is one of man rather than of God.

Mat 23:13 KJV
(13) But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Church scribes’ handwritings are “graven images”…graven-by-the-pen images. They become firmly established in their gatherings where they worship God. But they are not to be found there. We must have reverence for His sanctuary. They should not be “standing” there in the holy place.

Lev 26:1-3 KJV
(1) Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

(2) Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

We must keep His commandments and walk in His statutes rather than man’s graven ordinances which are “images” of stone where they are firmly established for their congregations to keep and serve rather than His commandments.

(3) If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;

They are “graven images” which are not to be made. They are being used to judge others with.

Our LORD is our “God”…that is, JUDGE.

A worthless piece of paper should not be used as a judge. Do no let a man judge you via his “image” that he made for himself and his congregation to keep and serve.

Deu 4:23-24 KJV
(23) Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee.

(24) For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

Do not let a man judge you via his handwriting of ordinances/dogmas that he made for himself to keep and serve.

The puffed-up minds of the church scribes thought they “saw” something in the Scriptures to keep and serve and have incorporated certain commandments of the Scriptures into their handwritings and then they all say that God has commanded it to keep them. They “trespassed” into the matters of the Scriptures that they know nothing about. They do not have the mind of Christ.

The handwritings of the scribes are used to judge others with….when we only have One Judge…One Lawgiver.

Col 2:14-23 KJV

(14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The “principalities and powers” are the handwritings of the church scribes that are used to rule over others …who humbly and voluntarily submit themselves to.

Why be subject to their ordinances?

They do not save the mortal flesh of anyone who willingly submit themselves to them. They mortally perish with the using of them…..the using of the handwritings of the commandments and doctrines of men. They perish under the wrath of God as He is a consuming fire.

(15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
(16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(18) Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
(19) And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
(20) Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
(21) (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

(22) Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

People see themselves as “wise” for willingly going to a “church” where they submit themselves to their church handwritings of the church scribes. Yet, they do nothing for the mortal flesh. NO FLESH is being saved in their “churches.”

(23) Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Professing themselves to be “wise”, they become fools.

Rom 1:22-25 KJV
(22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

They change the glory of the uncorruptible God into an IMAGE made like “corruptible man”…perishing man. The outside nations make and serve their handwritings….and they perish. The outside people of the world are like “birds and four-footed beasts and creeping things.” We must not copy the nations around us with images of what they do.

(23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

We must not go to man-based churches…or we become one flesh with them in their mortal destruction. They perish by the keeping of the graven images that they exchange the glory of God for. We sin against our own mortal body when we go and join along with them.

(24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
(25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
 

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
27,802
7,129
North Carolina
✟326,662.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Peace in Christ.

The kingdom/government of God does not come with “observation”….the observing of externally-written church handwritings of ordinances/dogmas.

His government/kingdom is within us…in our hearts and in our minds.
Observation here means able to be seen.

The kingdom of God is here now (Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20), but it is not seen, it is not observable, it is spiritual and unseen (Lk 17:20-21), within the hearts where Jesus rules and reigns.
Luke 17:20-21 KJV
(20) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
(21) Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.


From within is where our God rules over us. His writing is there. His laws are there….and are not found in an externally-written church handwriting of ordinances. They are internal.

Observing God’s internally-written laws unite us together as we all have the same laws in our hearts and minds. It His covenant with us that we are to keep.

Observing the church scribes’ handwritings of ordinances divide us into “denominations.” They all differ one from another because of their handwritings that divide themselves (Lo, here in this denomination....nor there in the other one).

We are not keeping His covenant He makes with us when we keep and serve…observing…the church handwritings of the church scribes.

Heb 10:16-17 KJV
(16) This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

(17) And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

The word “Pharisee” means “separatist”. The modern-day “Pharisees” are those who separate themselves into “denominations”…divisions…where they self-govern and judge themselves by their respective handwritings: their statements of faith, church constitutions, by-laws, statutes, creeds, etc, etc, etc.

This is all man-based…just like the nations around us who do not know God and have to make their documents (such as “constitutions”) to govern and judge themselves with their “gods”…their weak and beggarly elements…their founding principles.

We are not to copy the outside nations by doing this who have their own governmental documents. They are “IMAGES” as they are copied from the nations around us that do not know God nor worship Him.

Gal 4:8-9 KJV
(8) Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

(9) But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

The "graven image" is the graven-by-the-pen handwritings of church scribes....who make documents that are patterned after the world around us who do not know God.

Exo 20:1-5 KJV
(1) And God spake all these words, saying,
(2) I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
(3) Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

We are not to make handwritings of ordinances that are patterned/taken from the Scriptures (heaven above) nor that is in the earth beneath (the outside nations surrounding us such as their "constitutions") or that is in the water under the earth....the teachings of dead men who are dead and buried.

(4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

The LORD our God (meaning "JUDGE") is a jealous Judge. Men have made their "images"...their handwritings of church ordinances...in order to judge themselves with (and others also). These church handwritings of the church "fathers" are passed down from one generation to another who continue to keep and serve them. They do not move out of their places in their churches. They "hate" Him because they keep and serve man's commandments over His.

(5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Man-based churches are separated by the writings of their “scribes”…their church scribes ….that have made a “graven image:” making an externally-written handwriting of ordinances/dogmas for themselves to keep and serve.

They shut up the kingdom/government of heaven as they cause their congregants/observers to keep and serve their handwritings of ordinances rather than the internally-written laws of God. Their church “government” is one of man rather than of God.

Mat 23:13 KJV
(13) But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Church scribes’ handwritings are “graven images”…graven-by-the-pen images. They become firmly established in their gatherings where they worship God. But they are not to be found there. We must have reverence for His sanctuary. They should not be “standing” there in the holy place.

Lev 26:1-3 KJV
(1) Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

(2) Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

We must keep His commandments and walk in His statutes rather than man’s graven ordinances which are “images” of stone where they are firmly established for their congregations to keep and serve rather than His commandments.

(3) If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;

They are “graven images” which are not to be made. They are being used to judge others with.

Our LORD is our “God”…that is, JUDGE.

A worthless piece of paper should not be used as a judge. Do no let a man judge you via his “image” that he made for himself and his congregation to keep and serve.

Deu 4:23-24 KJV
(23) Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee.

(24) For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

Do not let a man judge you via his handwriting of ordinances/dogmas that he made for himself to keep and serve.

The puffed-up minds of the church scribes thought they “saw” something in the Scriptures to keep and serve and have incorporated certain commandments of the Scriptures into their handwritings and then they all say that God has commanded it to keep them. They “trespassed” into the matters of the Scriptures that they know nothing about. They do not have the mind of Christ.

The handwritings of the scribes are used to judge others with….when we only have One Judge…One Lawgiver.

Col 2:14-23 KJV
(14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The “principalities and powers” are the handwritings of the church scribes that are used to rule over others …who humbly and voluntarily submit themselves to.

Why be subject to their ordinances?

They do not save the mortal flesh of anyone who willingly submit themselves to them. They mortally perish with the using of them…..the using of the handwritings of the commandments and doctrines of men. They perish under the wrath of God as He is a consuming fire.

(15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
(16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(18) Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
(19) And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
(20) Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
(21) (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

(22) Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

People see themselves as “wise” for willingly going to a “church” where they submit themselves to their church handwritings of the church scribes. Yet, they do nothing for the mortal flesh. NO FLESH is being saved in their “churches.”

(23) Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Professing themselves to be “wise”, they become fools.

Rom 1:22-25 KJV
(22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

They change the glory of the uncorruptible God into an IMAGE made like “corruptible man”…perishing man. The outside nations make and serve their handwritings….and they perish. The outside people of the world are like “birds and four-footed beasts and creeping things.” We must not copy the nations around us with images of what they do.

(23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

We must not go to man-based churches…or we become one flesh with them in their mortal destruction. They perish by the keeping of the graven images that they exchange the glory of God for. We sin against our own mortal body when we go and join along with them.

(24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
(25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
52,675
11,585
Georgia
✟1,048,393.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Matt 6 -- we are to pray "Thy kingdom come"


Luke 17 - as in the days of Noah and Lot

20 Now He was questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, and He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs that can be observed; 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

22 And He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, ‘Look there,’ or, ‘Look here!’ Do not leave, and do not run after them. 24 For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day. 25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so will it also be in the days of the Son of Man: 27 people were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, and they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, and they were building; 29 but on the day that Lot left Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
27,802
7,129
North Carolina
✟326,662.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Matt 6 -- we are to pray "Thy kingdom come"
Because it is in the hearts of the born again, where he reigns and rules.
It comes to them when they born again.

The kingdom of God is here now (Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20), but it is not seen, it is not observable, it is spiritual and unseen (Lk 17:20-21), within the hearts where Jesus reigns and rules.
Luke 17 - as in the days of Noah and Lot

20 Now He was questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, and He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs that can be observed; 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

22 And He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, ‘Look there,’ or, ‘Look here!’ Do not leave, and do not run after them. 24 For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day. 25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so will it also be in the days of the Son of Man: 27 people were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, and they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, and they were building; 29 but on the day that Lot left Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
23,922
8,973
up there
✟355,340.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
it is not observable
Is it not observable in the fruits of those who follow the Kingdom's ways rather than the self serving ways of mankind? Does it not stand out simply because it bears no resemblance to the world built upon 'self'?
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
23,922
8,973
up there
✟355,340.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
27,802
7,129
North Carolina
✟326,662.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Is it not observable in the fruits of those who follow the Kingdom's ways rather than the self serving ways of mankind? Does it not stand out simply because it bears no resemblance to the world built upon 'self'?
"Kingdom" to the Jews meant a physical kingdom, which they were expecting.

The kingdom is not observable (Lk 17:20-21) because it is not a physical kingdom, it is a spiritual kingdom, hidden (Lk 17:20-21) in the hearts where he reigns and rules.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
23,922
8,973
up there
✟355,340.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
"Kingdom" to the Jews meant a physical kingdom, which they were expecting.
Yes, but to Jesus it meant the rule of the Father, His place as King, and a world to come built upon God's truths, not man's.. That Kingdom is within all those of us past and present of that spirit.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
27,802
7,129
North Carolina
✟326,662.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Yes, but to Jesus it meant the rule of the Father, His place as King, and a world to come built upon God's truths, not man's.. That Kingdom is within all those of us past and present of that spirit.
The kingdom is here now (Mt 12:48, Lk 11:20), hidden (Lk 17:20-21) and spiritual, within the hearts where Jesus reigns and rules.

Jesus will turn that kingdom over to the Father at the end of it all.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
27,802
7,129
North Carolina
✟326,662.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Yes, but to Jesus it meant the rule of the Father, His place as King, and a world to come built upon God's truths, not man's.. That Kingdom is within all those of us past and present of that spirit.
The kingdom you present contradicts NT teaching, wherein it is not a "world to come."

Jesus presents the kingdom as here now (Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20), it is everlasting (Lk 1:33), it is not observable (Lk 17:20-21), it is spiritual, in the hearts of the born again where he reigns and rules, which rule will be turned over to the Father at the end.

Enough already. . .
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
27,802
7,129
North Carolina
✟326,662.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
So no eternal life?
I've had God's eternal life (1 Jn 5:13) within my immortal spirit since its rebirth (Jn 3:3-5), and it continues within my immortal spirit through physical death, the resurrection of my physical body and its reunion with my immortal spirit.
 
Upvote 0