LDS The Infallibility of the Prophets

[Oseas]

Luke 16:16

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

 

[Oseas]

Abraham's wife was his sister, he didn't lie:

True.

 

[He is the way]

Gen 26:5 cannot be bent into a claim that Abraham never sinned.

Why not?

 

[Oseas]

Gen 26:5 cannot be bent into a claim that Abraham never sinned.

Friend, Have you never read? where no law is, there is no transgression.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
Gen 26:5 cannot be bent into a claim that Abraham never sinned.

Why not?

Friend, Have you never read? where no law is, there is no transgression.

ok then.. gospel ... starts like this

Rom 5
2 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam
17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. 18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. 19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the Law"

Rom 3:23 "ALL have sinned"
Rom 3:19 "19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;"
Gen 3: 3 God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’” 4 The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!
11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?”

 

[He is the way]

Friend, Have you never read? where no law is, there is no transgression.

There have been laws since the time of Adam.

 

[He is the way]

ok then.. gospel ... starts like this

Rom 5
2 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam
17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. 18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. 19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the Law"

Rom 3:23 "ALL have sinned"
Rom 3:19 "19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;"
Gen 3: 3 God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’” 4 The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!
11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?”

Did Jesus sin? The New Testament was written after His death.

 

[BigDaddy4]

The answer to the question is this, perhaps one of the marriages will last for eternity. Joseph Smith once cautioned a man that he should treat his wife better so she would want to stay with him for eternity. There are NO guarantees to the Celestial Kingdom.

Are you suggesting that marriages can end at some point in your eternity?

 

[He is the way]

Are you suggesting that marriages can end at some point in your eternity?

Absolutely, they are also conditional upon worthiness of the individuals.

 

[truthisfreedom2019]

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:15-23

 

[Oseas]

There have been laws since the time of Adam.

Scriptures, please, the discussion is about the accusation of Abraham's sin.

Through the messages posted earlier in this topic, the discussion is about the accusation against Abraham implying or insinuating that he lied to Abimelech, and sinned before God, what is not true. By the way, God is the Truth. The Word is God.

I quoted Scriptures in my earlier post : "where no law is, there is no transgression-Romans 4:v.15". The law was given by Moses-John 1:v.17-, i.e. four hundred and thirty years after Abraham-Gal.3:v.17.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

interesting -- how does this solve the problem you have with the book of Mormon condemning polygamy as abomination for which those tribes "must leave" Israel since God regards the polygamy of David and Solomon as "abomination"??

No matter who wrote BoM.. whether it was taken from Spalding or it "came out of staring in a hat" - either way is fine with me as the basis for the book - I just don't see how this helps you resolve the issue.

LDS church releases photos of Joseph Smith's seer stone
The Seer Stone Controversy : Writing the "Book of Mormon" on JSTOR

"In the context of the restored gospel, a seer stone is a stone through which a seer receives divine communication. The Book of Mormon defines a seer as a “revelator and a prophet also” (Mosiah 8:15-16)." 10 insights about Joseph Smith and seer stones from the authors of 'Joseph Smith’s Seer Stones'

Occult in America: Joseph Smith

Yes, Joseph Smith Really Did Use a Seer Stone in the Translation of the Book of Mormon

 

[Oseas]

Gen 26:5 cannot be bent into a claim that Abraham never sinned.
↑
He is the way said: ↑ Why not?
↑
Oseas said: Friend, Have you never read? where no law is, there is no transgression.

ok then.. gospel ... starts like this

Rom 5
2 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam
17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. 18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. 19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the Law"

Rom 3:23 "ALL have sinned"
Rom 3:19 "19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;"
Gen 3: 3 God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’” 4 The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!
11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?”

Romans 2:v.5-16
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of wrath and revelation of the righteous Judgment of God; - the Day of God's wrath has arrived -

6 Who will render to every MAN according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned WITHOUT LAW (the Gentiles) shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law (the Jews)shall be Judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

16 In the Day (this Day arrived)when God shall Judge the secrets of MEN by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.


2Corinthians 13:v.8 - We can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. - The Word of God is the Truth. The Word is God.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Genesis 17:9
And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

"
Abraham and Sarah both laughed when God told them they would have a child in their old age (Genesis 17:17; 18:10-12). Their laughter at God’s plan showed their disbelief that He could do what He said He would do.

“Then the LORD said to Abraham, ‘Why did Sarah laugh and say, ‘Will I really have a child, now that I am old?’ Is anything too hard for the LORD? I will return to you at the appointed time next year and Sarah will have a son.’ Sarah was afraid, so she lied and said, ‘I did not laugh.’ But he said, ‘Yes, you did laugh.’” Genesis 18:13-15" 4 Things You May Not Remember about Abraham in the Bible

"
Fearing for his life, Abraham lied and asked his wife to lie also saying to Pharaoh and the Egyptians, and later to King Abimelech, she is my sister. Sarah went along with the lie, identifying Abraham as her brother on all occasions (Genesis 12:11-13; 20:1-2, 5).

Even though Abraham knew he was wrong to fear for his life and claim his wife as his sister, he still tried to excuse himself on a technicality by saying,

“Besides, she really is my sister, the daughter of my father though not of my mother; and she became my wife. And when God had me wander from my father’s household, I said to her, ‘This is how you can show your love to me: Everywhere we go, say of me, ‘He is my brother.’” Genesis 20:12-13"
4 Things You May Not Remember about Abraham in the Bible

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Was Abraham wife his half sister or full sister?
Is sexual relations with one's half sister incest?
Is incest a serious sin?

"
GENESIS 20:12—IF INCEST IS CONDEMNED, WHY DID ABRAHAM MARRY HIS SISTER?
PROBLEM: Abraham admitted here that Sarah his wife was really his “sister” (cf. Gen. 17:15–16). Yet incest is denounced in no uncertain terms in many passages (cf. Lev. 18:6; 20:17). Indeed, the Lord declared, “Cursed is the one who lies with his sister, the daughter of his father or the daughter of his mother” (Deut. 27:22).

SOLUTION: Abraham was not beyond sin, as his lie about Sarah to king Abimelech reveals (Gen. 20:4–5). And Abraham did admit that Sarah was “the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife” (Gen. 20:12). However, even granting this, there is no real proof Abraham violated any law for two reasons. First, the incest laws were not given by Moses until some 500 years after Abraham. So he surely could not be held responsible for laws that had not yet been promulgated. Second, the terms “sister” and “brother” are used with great latitude in the Bible, just as the terms “father” and “son.” Jesus, for example, was the “son” (i.e., descendant) of David (Matt. 21:15). “Sister” means a near relative, but it does not as such indicate the degree of nearness we understand by the word “sister.” Lot, Abraham’s nephew, is called a “brother” (Gen. 14:12, 16). Likewise, “daughter” can mean granddaughter or great granddaughter.

Considering the age to which Abraham lived (175, Gen. 25:7), it is possible that he married only a granddaughter on his father’s side, or even a niece or grand niece. In any event, there is no proof that Abraham’s marriage to Sarah violated any existing incest law. But if it did, the Bible simply gives us a true record of Abraham’s error. When God called Sarah Abraham’s “wife” (Gen. 17:15), He was not legitimizing any alleged incest, but merely stating a fact." Is there a Bible contradiction in Genesis 20:12?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

God gave everyone their agency and that agency will still be with us in the world to come. Since that is the case many relations may be terminated by one of the spouses. That being said there will be restrictions for those who are not worthy of greater things.

I once heard a wife must be resurrected by her Husband, is that true?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

That is from the BoM in the book Jacob... chapter 2. Is that what you are asking ? Do you want a link to BoM?

Please post the chapter with the link

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I tend to go with the theory that credits other books accessible to Joseph Smith at the time he grew up and the area as having influenced the content and style of the book of Mormon. Those being View of the Hebrews, The Last Book of Napoleon, and The Great War Between the U.S. and Great Britain in 1812. Seeing as both of Smith's parents were school teachers, the war described in the Great War having happened in his backyard in New York(and the book being written in KJV English AND being a book made for school children, would have been something the Smith household would have had access to and could account for all the war and battles written into the BoM). Smith himself was said to be well-spoken and to have a knack for memorizing scripture. In his mother's biography about him, she recalls many instances of the young Smith telling stories about the ancient cultures of the people who once lived in the American continent. SO, you want to talk about "months" writing the Bom? How about years, mate. From boyhood, these ideas and fascinations were being entertained.

But aside from that fact, if we want to get into the nitty gritty of what the heck happened and the hat and the stone, I am betrayed more by the manipulation of the church leaders in current day than I am by the cracks in the origin of the writing. I grew up in Smith's backyard. My church was the Priesthood Restoration site in Susquehanna PA. in the summertime, we used to baptize folks in the same river that Joseph and Oliver Cowdery supposedly baptized each other in when they restored that ordinance.

The chapel was connected by the Priesthood Restoration site visitor center. If you've ever been to a temple visitor center, then you'll know the shape of it; it's like a mini museum, with pictures on the walls, displays and infographics. There's a theater room where visitors can go to see a propaganda dramatization video about Smith and Cowdery translating the plates. I visited there often in 2016 before I moved and do you know what the pictures on the wall were of? Joseph sitting by candlelight with the plates on the table in front of him, Cowdery in the background across the table from him with pen and parchment. The same pictures I was shown in Primary, in Sunday school, in teaching manuals. I had to learn about the stone and hat this month, reading an essay in on the lds site. If you think any part of those commissioned paintings with "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints" printed on the back in their logo and font, or any part of that visitors center wasn't carefully put together by leaders of the church to present a certain image to both the members and investigators, and that kind of conduct is manipulative and deceitful in a way unbecoming of men who are supposed to represent God's will, then I guess the gaslighting must be working. But not on me. Not anymore.

What books were in JS's personal library?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

read to end of page two.

 

[Rescued One]

Did Jesus sin? The New Testament was written after His death.

God never sinned and never will. Jesus is God.