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The Great White Throne Judgement

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ross3421

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Common view is that only the wicked are judged at this time and that there is 1000 years seperating the judgement of the godly. Does scripture support this?

The resurrection

Scripture does not support a gap between the resurrection of the godly and ungody thus there is no gap between judgements as well.


Dan 12:1,2 -"and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time; and at that time thy people shall be delivered, everyone that is found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt".

Matt 25:31,32 - "when the son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats".

John 6:44 - "no man can come to me, except the father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day".

John 12:48 - "he that rejecteth me, and received not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall be judged the last day".

Rev 11:15,18 - "and the seventh angel sounded…..and the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets and to the saints, and them that fear his name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them that destroy the earth".



The old heaven and earth

Rev 20:11 - "and I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth, and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them".

A common misinterpretation is to think that the words "there was no place for them" refers to verse 12 and to the dead. These words are describing the old heaven and earth! The millenium kingdom theory teaches that the appearance of the new heaven and earth occurs at the end of 1000 years. They support this elementary reasoning with the fact that the new heaven and earth are mentioned in chapter 21 after the 1000 years? This is not studying the word! So again if it can be proven that a new heaven and earth appears at Christ’s second coming then how can this also happen a 1000 years later as would have to the case in a belief of a millenium kingdom!

With the old heaven and earth being destroyed upon Christ’s return a new one must replace it. Is there a thousand years without an earth or heaven?

II Pt 3-10 - "but the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up".

Luke 17:29,30 -"but the same day that lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the son of man is revealed".

We also read within the gospel account of the Second Coming where the heaven and earth shall pass away (Matt 24:35, Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33). No mention of a thousand year period in between. Furthermore, in Revelation we read the account of heaven and earth passing away at the close of the sixth seal and hail fall from heaven in the seventh trumpet/vial plaque.

Rev 6:12-14 - "and I behold when he had opened the sixth seal, and lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as figs tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places".


The first resurrection - the godly

Rev 20:12 - "and I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the those things which were written in the books, according to their works".



Here we see the first resurrection, the dead believers. We see them standing before God; the unbelievers will not stand in the judgement.

Ps 1:5 -"therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous".

We see the reference to them as "small and great"; which were those who feared his name.

Rev 11:18 - "…..and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets and to the saints, and them that fear his name, small and great,….."

We see the book of life present and opened as Jesus confesses the names written therein.

Rev 3:5 - "he that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess His name before my father, and before his angels".

We see them judged according to their works. Are we not judged according to our works, not for the inheritance to the kingdom, but for reward. I will use the same text theologians use for the supposed "judgement seat of Christ" judgment.

II Cor 5:10 - "for we all must appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad".



The second resurrection - the ungodly

Rev 20:13 - "and the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works".

Here we see the second resurrection; the unbelievers. Being delivered up from the sea; the bottomless pit. Another interesting point to be made here is that how can death deliver up the dead? At first it does not make sense, however, when we examine the forth seal we see that "death" is the Antichrist thus making the understanding to the above scripture.

Rev 6:7,8 -"and when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was death, and hell followed with him. And power was given unto themover the fourth part of the earth….."



The resurrection of the godly and ungodly do not occur 1000 years apart.


The old heaven and earth are destroyed at the coming of Christ not 1000 years later.


Both the godly and ungodly are judged at the Great White Throne.




In Christ, Mark.
 

ShirleyFord

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ross3421 said:
Common view is that only the wicked are judged at this time and that there is 1000 years seperating the judgement of the godly.

The resurrection of the godly and ungodly do not occur 1000 years apart.


The old heaven and earth are destroyed at the coming of Christ not 1000 years later.


Both the godly and ungodly are judged at the Great White Throne.




In Christ, Mark.

Hi Mark,

I agree because the Bible declares absolutely that there is only one final Judgement Day for both the righteous and the wicked:

One final Judgement Day at our Lord's Second Coming - the Day of the Lord - before One Judge seated on the One Judgement Seat which is on the One Throne of God.

Thank God for His magnificant, marvellous, all-powerful written Word!

In His precious love,

Shirley
 
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FreeinChrist

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ross3421 said:
The resurrection of the godly and ungodly do not occur 1000 years apart.



The old heaven and earth are destroyed at the coming of Christ not 1000 years later.


Both the godly and ungodly are judged at the Great White Throne.





Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

Rev 20:3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut {it} and sealed {it} over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I {saw} the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

Rev 20:8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

Rev 20:9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is {the book} of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one {of them} according to their deeds.

Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer {any} sea.

Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.


It plainly separates resurrections - with the "rest of the dead" resurrected to face judgment after 1000 years. You had to leave out verse 5 in your interpretation.
 
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Justme

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Hi Ross and Shirley,

You have the great white throne judgment figured out. The wicked and righteous are at the same time for that judgment. Matthew 25 shows that also and definitively states WHEN it occurs...at the coming of the son. The REST of the DEAD that Free talks about IS the Great white throne judgment group. The 'first' resurrection of Rev 20 are the 1000 year reign with Christ.

Justme
 
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ShirleyFord

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Justme said:
Hi Ross and Shirley,

You have the great white throne judgment figured out. The wicked and righteous are at the same time for that judgment. Matthew 25 shows that also and definitively states WHEN it occurs...at the coming of the son. The REST of the DEAD that Free talks about IS the Great white throne judgment group. The 'first' resurrection of Rev 20 are the 1000 year reign with Christ.

Justme

Thanks!:) Can't argue with the Bible where God has laid out so clearly exactly what is going to happen at our Lord's return, can we.

YSIC,
Shirley
 
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FreeinChrist

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ShirleyFord said:
Thanks!:) Can't argue with the Bible where God has laid out so clearly exactly what is going to happen at our Lord's return, can we.

YSIC,
Shirley

LOL!! YOu just agreed with a full preterist.
 
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FreeinChrist

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ShirleyFord said:
How can that be?

Justme

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If what you say is true then he/she wouldn't be allowed to post here, especially 2,399 posts, unless I've misunderstood the rules.

He can't promote full preterism here, only in Unorthodox Theology. Otherwise he can post here. There are several who post here who can't actually argue their view.
 
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ShirleyFord

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FreeinChrist said:
He can't promote full preterism here, only in Unorthodox Theology. Otherwise he can post here. There are several who post here who can't actually argue their view.

Even so Free, I still stand by my reply to him:

"Thanks!:) Can't argue with the Bible where God has laid out so clearly exactly what is going to happen at our Lord's return, can we."
 
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FreeinChrist

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Justme said:
Hi Shirley,

I'm not a full preterist because I see my second coming as future.

The discussion I chimed in on was about the great white throne judgment. Biblical that is as you and Ross have stated.

Justme

?...but you believe the Second Coming occurs at each person's death and has been happening since 70 AD. You clearly stated that to me. And more.

And if one beleives that the first resurrection aleady happened bck then...then of cours, all one would expect is the GWT judgment.
 
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FreeinChrist

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ShirleyFord said:
Even so Free, I still stand by my reply to him:

"Thanks!:) Can't argue with the Bible where God has laid out so clearly exactly what is going to happen at our Lord's return, can we."


Yep.
Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

Rev 20:3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut {it} and sealed {it} over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I {saw} the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

Rev 20:8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

Rev 20:9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is {the book} of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one {of them} according to their deeds.

Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer {any} sea.
 
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James1979

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1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

These verses above clearly show that the believers will be judging the unbelievers right along with God as he is also judging the unbelievers.

Hebrew 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more

These two verses in Hebrew is showing that once God has saved an indiviual there sins are no longer in the mind of God.

So we have to ask ourselves. Are the believers really going to be standing in line with the unbelievers to give an account for their lives. If this is the case, what sins is God going to remember on the believers?? But for the unbelievers God will remember every sin that they committed.

The believers have already in a sense have given an account for the lives on the behalf of Jesus when God condemn him to experience the equivalent to spending an eternity in hell forever more and came out of eternity at the other end. So in other words..if you're standing in line to give an account for every word that proceed out of your mouth and of course your action...you're an unbeliever no doubt about it. There will be no believers standing in line on Judgment Day, they'll be too busy judging the fallen angels and unbelievers!
 
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Markea

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James1979 said:
So we have to ask ourselves. Are the believers really going to be standing in line with the unbelievers to give an account for their lives. If this is the case, what sins is God going to remember on the believers?? But for the unbelievers God will remember every sin that they committed.

The believers have already in a sense have given an account for the lives on the behalf of Jesus when God condemn him to experience the equivalent to spending an eternity in hell forever more and came out of eternity at the other end. So in other words..if you're standing in line to give an account for every word that proceed out of your mouth and of course your action...you're an unbeliever no doubt about it. There will be no believers standing in line on Judgment Day, they'll be too busy judging the fallen angels and unbelievers!

AMEN ..

All those whom the Lord adds to His body are IN CHRIST, seated there with Him in heavenly places.. this is why the apostle Paul would admonish every believer to set their affections on things above, and not on the things of the earth.. for you are dead, he says.. and your life is hidden in Christ with God.. when He appears..we shall appear with Him..

..and every single one of them has the imputed righteousness of Christ..

All believers will stand before the judgment seat of Christ.. although this is for their service to Christ and for reward.. not for the judgment of their sins.. for they had all been placed upon our Lord Jesus Christ.. as He alone purged them in His own body on that tree..

This is our position in Christ Jesus our Saviour and Lord.. to His eternal glory and praise !
 
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ross3421

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Markea said:
All believers will stand before the judgment seat of Christ.. although this is for their service to Christ and for reward.. not for the judgment of their sins.. for they had all been placed upon our Lord Jesus Christ.. as He alone purged them in His own body on that tree..


Who said they were going to be judged according to thier sins.....

Great White Throne

Rev 20:12 - "and I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the those things which were written in the books, according to their works".

Judgement seat of Christ

II Cor 5:10 - "for we all must appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad".



The Great White Throne and the Judgement seat of Christ are one in the same.

Again scriptures do not support mutliple judgements for the believer nor a 1000 year gap.


In Christ, Mark.


 
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Markea

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ross3421 said:
The Great White Throne and the Judgement seat of Christ are one in the same.

Again scriptures do not support mutliple judgements for the believer nor a 1000 year gap.


In Christ, Mark.

The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed...
 
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ross3421

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Markea said:
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed...


Who are the rest of the dead ? unbelievers ?

You have two different groups mentioned in Rev. 20:4-6. We see in these verse listed two godly services held.


First Group

Those who live and reign with Christ.

These are the martyred only.

Second Group

Those which are priests and reign with Christ.

These are the rest of the dead (believers)


The rest of the dead are godly. The first resurrection and the second death which has no power is a reference to the second group, the rest of the dead.


Who do you think the rest of the dead refers to ?

In Christ, Mark.
 
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