The Danger of "Keeping Sabbath."

[guevaraj]

There is no command to keep a day. Only Israelites were subject to the command to keep the Sabbath and THAT ENDED WITH THE INTRODUCTION OF THE NEW AND BETTER COVENANT.

Brother, you oppose the Holy Spirits' message about the Sabbath in the new covenant book of Hebrews. Paul tells us what he means by his use of the word "rest". "Rest" in this passage does not mean anything other than what Paul tells us he means in the following passage; God's rest on the seventh "day" of creation.

For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” (Hebrews 4:3-4 NLT)​

The rest of the passage reveals that Judaism has not fully understood God's rest on the seventh "day" of creation to enter into God's "day" of rest outside of Jerusalem, like here in the United States.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

They have a human Sabbath tradition and not the true biblical Sabbath since creation. When God made holy his "rest" on the seventh day of creation, He separated that "day" from the week, setting His "day" of rest in the time zone of Eden and that is why Jerusalem remembers the Sabbath half a day earlier than the true seventh day of the week in Jerusalem, the days of the week being from morning to morning and not from evening to evening.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Bob S]

Brother, you oppose the Holy Spirits' message about the Sabbath in the new covenant book of Hebrews. Paul tells us what he means by his use of the word "rest". "Rest" in this passage does not mean anything other than what Paul tells us he means in the following passage; God's rest on the seventh "day" of creation.

Your interpretation of Hebrews is completely wrong. Hebrews is addressing Jews who were already resting on the Sabbath. They certainly didn't need prompting from whomever the writer was. Today doesn't mean Saturday, it means right now Jews can find the real rest. Jesus is the real rest, and He invites us to rest in Him.

For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’”​

Why couldn't they enter God's rest? Because of unbelief. We have to believe in Jesus as our Savior to enter into Jesus' rest. anyone can rest on the old covenant , now done away, Sabbath. A person doesn't have to believe in doing that. Your interpretation is completely false.

even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” (Hebrews 4:3-4 NLT)​

The rest of the passage reveals that Judaism has not fully understood God's rest on the seventh "day" of creation to enter into God's "day" of rest outside of Jerusalem, like here in the United States.

Oh! they knew all about resting on the Sabbath. We can be sure of that. Those who try to keep the old covenant Sabbath today also know. Your statement is just another fallacy created to try to prove we have to keep a day that was only given to one nation on this Earth and ended at Calvary where The new and superior Covenant was established through the blood of our Savior, Jesus Christ.

 

[guevaraj]

Your interpretation of Hebrews is completely wrong. Hebrews is addressing Jews who were already resting on the Sabbath. They certainly didn't need prompting from whomever the writer was.

Brother, they knew how to enter the Sabbath in Jerusalem by direct instruction in Leviticus 23:32, but nowhere else, like here in the United States, because of their erroneous understanding of the true days of the week as God corrected them when He prevented them from entering the Sabbath during those 40 years. Making them keep the true seventh day of the week with Manna near Jerusalem, when the true seventh day of the week is too late to enter the Sabbath by half a day near Jerusalem.

Today doesn't mean Saturday, it means right now Jews can find the real rest. Jesus is the real rest, and He invites us to rest in Him.

Today you cannot harden your heart in disobedience like those who died in the desert for God's message on the Sabbath for those 40 years in the desert. Right now, there is another "day" besides what the Jews have understood since Joshua about how to enter the Sabbath. The Sabbath does not travel with the true days of the week but is fixed in the time zone of creation and how you enter the Sabbath depends on your distance from the site of creation in Eden.

Why couldn't they enter God's rest? Because of unbelief. We have to believe in Jesus as our Savior to enter into Jesus' rest. anyone can rest on the old covenant , now done away, Sabbath. A person doesn't have to believe in doing that. Your interpretation is completely false.

Those that died in the desert did not live to see Jesus to have His message. That comes from a mis-identification of Joshua before David as Jesus by the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:8 KJV)​

The previous blunder of misidentifying Joshua as Jesus was later corrected without correcting its forced twisting effect on the "good news" of how to enter the Sabbath, translated as the "gospel" of Jesus before David for those who died in the desert, making the passage appear to refer to the present, when it is a message about the past misunderstanding of the Sabbath since Joshua.

For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:8 NKJV)​

Oh! they knew all about resting on the Sabbath. We can be sure of that. Those who try to keep the old covenant Sabbath today also know. Your statement is just another fallacy created to try to prove we have to keep a day that was only given to one nation on this Earth and ended at Calvary where The new and superior Covenant was established through the blood of our Savior, Jesus Christ.

The book of Hebrews tells us that God prevented them from entering the Sabbath during those 40 years in the desert by "oath" as punishment for disobedience by making them keep the true seventh day of the week as a punishment with Manna, when the true seventh day of the week, as the Sabbath near Jerusalem is half a day too late to enter the Sabbath near Jerusalem.

For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” (Hebrews 4:3-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Bob S]

So that's your answer to Isaiah 58?

Isaiah 58:13 was addressed to only one nation, Israel. It certainly is not addressed to anyone today because the covenant i6t was referring has been done away.

You refuse to answer Biblical questions that show what sin is and how the Jews broke God's law. Why? Because it shows God's law can be kept.

On the contrary, sin has nothing to do with not keeping old covenant ritual laws.

You have never shown any Biblical covenant made with Gentiles. Are you a Jew/Israelite that the new covenant should apply to you for it was given to the nations of Israel and Judah?

I guess you have never read the covenant God made with Noah the Gentile or Abraham the Gentile.

 

[Gary K]

Isaiah 58:13 was addressed to only one nation, Israel. It certainly is not addressed to anyone today because the covenant i6t was referring has been done away.

On the contrary, sin has nothing to do with not keeping old covenant ritual laws.

I guess you have never read the covenant God made with Noah the Gentile or Abraham the Gentile.

So even though the Catholic church boasts that they transferred the solemnity from Sabbath to Sunday you're sticking with Sunday. Not good. You despise Ellen White so much you're willing to worship on a day that comes directly from paganism.

Constantine and the Sabbath Change
Sunday actually made very little headway as a Christian day of rest until the time of
Constantine in the fourth century. Constantine was emperor of Rome from AD 306
to 337. He was a sun worshiper during the first years of his reign.
Later, he professed conversion to Christianity, but at heart remained a devotee of
the sun. Edward Gibbon says, “The Sun was universally celebrated as the invincible
guide and protector of Constantine.”vi
Constantine created the earliest Sunday law known to history in AD 321:
On the venerable Day of the sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest,
and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in
agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits: because it often happens
that another Day is not so suitable for grain sowing or for vine planting: lest by
neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be
lost.vii
Chamber’s Encyclopedia says this:
Unquestionably the first law, either ecclesiastical or civil, by which the Sabbatical
observance of that Day is known to have been ordained, is the edict of Constantine, 321
A.D.viii
Following this initial legislation, both emperors and Popes in succeeding centuries
added other laws to strengthen Sunday observance. What began as a pagan
ordinance ended as a Christian regulation.
Close on the heels of the Edict of Constantine followed the Catholic Church Council of
Laodicea (circa 364 AD):
Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday (Sabbath), but shall work on that
Day: but the Lord’s Day, they shall especially honour, and as being Christians, shall, if
possible, do no work on that Day. If however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be
shut out from Christ

Boasts of the Roman Church about Sunday
The Catholic Church claims responsibility for the change from seventh-‐day to first-‐
day Sabbath. Here is an explanation from The Catechism of the Catholic Church
Section 2 Article 3 (1994):
Sunday – fulfillment of the Sabbath. Sunday is expressly distinguished from the
Sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial
observance replaces that of the Sabbath... The Sabbath, which represented the
completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new
creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by
the Resurrection of Christ... In respecting religious liberty and the common good of all,
Christians should seek recognition of Sundays and the Church’s holy days as legal
holidays.
And here are various Catholic sources claiming the change was the doing of the
Roman Catholic Church:

Cardinal James Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers (Ayers Publishing, 1978):
108:
But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single
line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious
observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.
The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957): 50:
Q. Which is the Sabbath day? A. Saturday is the Sabbath day. Q. Why Do we observe
Sunday instead of Saturday? A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the
Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
Chancellor Albert Smith for Cardinal of Baltimore Archdiocese, letter dated
February 10, 1920:
If Protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship God on the Sabbath day by
God is Saturday. In keeping the Sunday, they are following a law of the Catholic
Church.
Stephen Keenan, Catholic—Doctrinal Catechism 3rd Edition: 174:
Question: Have you any other way of proving the Church has power to institute
festivals of precept?
Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern
religionists agree with her, she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday
the 1st day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the 7th day, a change for which
there is no Scriptural authority.x

Our Sunday Visitor (February 5, 1950):
Practically everything Protestants regard as essential or important they have received
from the Catholic Church... The Protestant mind does not seem to realize that in
accepting the Bible and observing the Sunday, in keeping Christmas and Easter, they
are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.
Louis Gaston Segur, Plain Talk about the Protestantism of To Day (London:
Thomas Richardson and Son, 1874): 213:
Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is a homage they pay, in spite of
themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church.
The Catholic Mirror (September 23, 1893):

The Catholic Church, for over 1000 years before the existence of a protestant, by virtue
of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday... Reason and
common sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either
Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicity and the keeping holy of
Sunday. Compromise is impossible.
Sunday is therefore to this day the acknowledged offspring of the Catholic Church as
spouse of the Holy Ghost, without a word of remonstrance from the Protestant world.
But the Protestant says: How can I receive the teachings of an apostate Church? How,
we ask, have you managed to receive her teachings all your life, in direct opposition to
your recognized teacher, the Bible, on the Sabbath question. ...those who follow the
Bible as their guide, the Israelites and the Seventh day Adventists have the exclusive
weight of evidence on their side, whilst the Biblical Protestant has not a word in self
defence for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday.
The Adventists are the only body of Christians with the Bible as their teacher, who can
find no warrant in its pages for the change of day from the seventh to the first. Hence
their appellation, “Seventh day Adventists.”

 

[reddogs]

Good question. It says He rested. Did that mean he had a huge dinner, and slept the rest of the afternoon?

He ceased His work to spend time with man as a example for us on what He made for us.

 

[Mercy Shown]

He ceased His work to spend time with man as a example for us on what He made for us.

What motivates you to say you keep it?

 

[Gary K]

What motivates you to say you keep it?

What motivates you to deny he does? You don't know him from Adam.

 

[Bob S]

So even though the Catholic church boasts that they transferred the solemnity from Sabbath to Sunday you're sticking with Sunday. Not good. You despise Ellen White so much you're willing to worship on a day that comes directly from paganism.

Constantine and the Sabbath Change
Sunday actually made very little headway as a Christian day of rest until the time of
Constantine in the fourth century. Constantine was emperor of Rome from AD 306
to 337. He was a sun worshiper during the first years of his reign.
Later, he professed conversion to Christianity, but at heart remained a devotee of
the sun. Edward Gibbon says, “The Sun was universally celebrated as the invincible
guide and protector of Constantine.”vi
Constantine created the earliest Sunday law known to history in AD 321:
On the venerable Day of the sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest,
and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in
agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits: because it often happens
that another Day is not so suitable for grain sowing or for vine planting: lest by
neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be
lost.vii
Chamber’s Encyclopedia says this:
Unquestionably the first law, either ecclesiastical or civil, by which the Sabbatical
observance of that Day is known to have been ordained, is the edict of Constantine, 321
A.D.viii
Following this initial legislation, both emperors and Popes in succeeding centuries
added other laws to strengthen Sunday observance. What began as a pagan
ordinance ended as a Christian regulation.
Close on the heels of the Edict of Constantine followed the Catholic Church Council of
Laodicea (circa 364 AD):
Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday (Sabbath), but shall work on that
Day: but the Lord’s Day, they shall especially honour, and as being Christians, shall, if
possible, do no work on that Day. If however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be
shut out from Christ

Boasts of the Roman Church about Sunday
The Catholic Church claims responsibility for the change from seventh-‐day to first-‐
day Sabbath. Here is an explanation from The Catechism of the Catholic Church
Section 2 Article 3 (1994):
Sunday – fulfillment of the Sabbath. Sunday is expressly distinguished from the
Sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial
observance replaces that of the Sabbath... The Sabbath, which represented the
completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new
creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by
the Resurrection of Christ... In respecting religious liberty and the common good of all,
Christians should seek recognition of Sundays and the Church’s holy days as legal
holidays.
And here are various Catholic sources claiming the change was the doing of the
Roman Catholic Church:

Cardinal James Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers (Ayers Publishing, 1978):
108:
But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single
line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious
observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.
The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957): 50:
Q. Which is the Sabbath day? A. Saturday is the Sabbath day. Q. Why Do we observe
Sunday instead of Saturday? A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the
Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
Chancellor Albert Smith for Cardinal of Baltimore Archdiocese, letter dated
February 10, 1920:
If Protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship God on the Sabbath day by
God is Saturday. In keeping the Sunday, they are following a law of the Catholic
Church.
Stephen Keenan, Catholic—Doctrinal Catechism 3rd Edition: 174:
Question: Have you any other way of proving the Church has power to institute
festivals of precept?
Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern
religionists agree with her, she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday
the 1st day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the 7th day, a change for which
there is no Scriptural authority.x

Our Sunday Visitor (February 5, 1950):
Practically everything Protestants regard as essential or important they have received
from the Catholic Church... The Protestant mind does not seem to realize that in
accepting the Bible and observing the Sunday, in keeping Christmas and Easter, they
are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.
Louis Gaston Segur, Plain Talk about the Protestantism of To Day (London:
Thomas Richardson and Son, 1874): 213:
Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is a homage they pay, in spite of
themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church.
The Catholic Mirror (September 23, 1893):

The Catholic Church, for over 1000 years before the existence of a protestant, by virtue
of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday... Reason and
common sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either
Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicity and the keeping holy of
Sunday. Compromise is impossible.
Sunday is therefore to this day the acknowledged offspring of the Catholic Church as
spouse of the Holy Ghost, without a word of remonstrance from the Protestant world.
But the Protestant says: How can I receive the teachings of an apostate Church? How,
we ask, have you managed to receive her teachings all your life, in direct opposition to
your recognized teacher, the Bible, on the Sabbath question. ...those who follow the
Bible as their guide, the Israelites and the Seventh day Adventists have the exclusive
weight of evidence on their side, whilst the Biblical Protestant has not a word in self
defence for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday.
The Adventists are the only body of Christians with the Bible as their teacher, who can
find no warrant in its pages for the change of day from the seventh to the first. Hence
their appellation, “Seventh day Adventists.”

I have never written one word that would indicate I believe Sunday replaced the Sabbath. I have always maintained that we are free to worship corporately any day we choose. The new covenant does not command anything about keeping days. We are free from the ritual laws given only to Israel. Israel is now free too. Paul is very adamant about their and our freedom. "Oh, you foolish Galatians......." Gal 3

The problem is that you would rather believe a woman who had a very severe head injury over what scripture teaches. There are so many who have studied her books and have come to the conclusion that she was a fraud. I also did a study and came to the same conclusion. You are hanging on a very thin thread if you cling to her advice and threats concerning salvation.

 

[guevaraj]

The new covenant does not command anything about keeping days.

Brother, here is the rest on the Sabbath "day" in the New Covenant.

For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” (Hebrews 4:3-4 NLT)​

Where we are told we will "fall" if we disobey God's rest like those who were late for half a day during the 40 years of Manna punishment. Those who were prevented from entering God's rest with Manna as punishment by "oath" for 40 years!

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Mercy Shown]

What motivates you to deny he does? You don't know him from Adam.

Ok, let's break down your response here.

1) You instantly jumped to attack a strawman since there is no place where I deny that he does.
2) You assume the position of Reddogs spokesperson

So, if you will speak for reddogs, why not speak for yourself? Here is your opportunity: Do you claim to keep the seventh day as a sabbath? If so, what motivates you to do so?

(Yes, I am pretty sure that Reddogs is not Adam.)

 

[Gary K]

Ok, let's break down your response here.

1) You instantly jumped to attack a strawman since there is no place where I deny that he does.
2) You assume the position of Reddogs spokesperson

So, if you will speak for reddogs, why not speak for yourself? Here is your opportunity: Do you claim to keep the seventh day as a sabbath? If so, what motivates you to do so?

(Yes, I am pretty sure that Reddogs is not Adam.)

Yes I do. I get a tremendous blessing from spiritual keeping it. You seem to think your experience is the only one possible. You seem to think sin is more powerful in the lives of believers than the power of the HS. It isn't. God is omniscient meaning He is infinitely powerful which includes infinitely more powerful than sin.

If a person will not believe this it is not possible for them.

Matthew 9: 27 ¶ And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou Son of David, have mercy on us.
28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.
29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

Leprosy was a type of sin to the Jews.

Matthew 8: 2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.

When Jesus touches us we are cleansed of sin but only if we believe it is possible. If the leper and blind men hadn't had the faith to believe in His healing touch they would not have been healed.

 

[sparow]

I suppose there are those who want nothing to do with Christ. Even some religous people. But the bottom line is that we don't become like Christ by focusing on the law, We become like Christ by focusing on Christ.

The law cannot make us Christ like. “For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh” Romans 8:3

The only way to keep the law is to stop focusing on it and focus on Christ and what He did for us. He will put the law in our hearts and we will actually began keeping His commands for the first time.

Sabatarians tend to think of his commands as the ten commandments but they are far greater in scope than the ten commandments. You continue to not adress whether you keep the law perfectly or not. I assume you do not just like the rest of us. This is an important point for Christians.

Is "Christ like" definitive? If one kept the commandments as Christ kept them one would be Christ like, if one kept the commandments as the Pharisees kept them one would not be Christ like; when the Law is written on the heart and mind, the commandments are kept automatically often without thought or awareness. In the meantime, we have to write the Law on our own hearts and minds, when Christ does it as a function of the new covenant is future and requires the person qualify to be resurrected to eternal life.

If you think of keeping the law perfectly you are on the wrong track; one way of considering the law is did God, give Israel a religion or a kingdom complete with a legal system; one might be trying to be religious instead of trying to be citizen of the kingdom.

Forget perfect, if one keeps the ten in the spirit that God requires then the Law is kept, if you keep 9, regardless of how well, the Law is not kept.

 

[guevaraj]

The law cannot make us Christ like. “For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh” Romans 8:3

Brothers, the law did not make Judaism Christian because it was "weak through the flesh," due to disobedience. Judaism is the son of Hagar in disobedience to God rather than a son of Sarah in obedience to God's law. Jesus overcame this weakness through the flesh by being our example in the flesh of how to obey the law, rather than our example being Judaism in its disobedience to the law by replacing God's law with its own human law. Like our modern replacement of the Sabbath for Sunday. Sunday is a human tradition of God's will that we keep His Sabbath in the new covenant book of Hebrews.

when the Law is written on the heart and mind, the commandments are kept automatically often without thought or awareness. In the meantime, we have to write the Law on our own hearts and minds, when Christ does it as a function of the new covenant is future and requires the person qualify to be resurrected to eternal life.

The following passage talks about working on obedience now and not that we must wait until Jesus returns to be obedient. We have yet to understand the biblical Sabbath in the new covenant book of Hebrews as fixed in the time zone of creation in Eden, which shows the truth in the statement that "what we will be has not yet been made known". What the Bible does say is that when Jesus returns, "we will be like him" in our obedience and not that we should wait for this to happen in the future.

See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure. (1 John 3:1-3 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge