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grafted branch

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The context is clearly the day of the Lord. I'm surprised that you agree since the day of the Lord involves the 2nd coming in the end of this age, not something in the first century instead.
Well, I don’t think anyone knew the day of the Lord before it happened in 70 AD and I don’t think anyone can know when Christ comes again.

I’m not arguing against knowing some signs, just as they knew when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies they were to flee, but the actual day I don’t think can be known. Whether preterist, Amil, or Premil.
 
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DavidPT

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Well, I don’t think anyone knew the day of the Lord before it happened in 70 AD and I don’t think anyone can know when Christ comes again.

I’m not arguing against knowing some signs, just as they knew when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies they were to flee, but the actual day I don’t think can be known. Whether preterist, Amil, or Premil.


And I don't think anyone even knew the day of Lord in 70 AD once 70 AD arrived since the day of the Lord has zero to do with that event. It seems rather odd to me, that the day and hour only the Father knows, it was meaning 70 AD. If it was I guess everyone knows this day and hour now since it would no longer be a mystery. Except it is still a mystery. That aside, I at least get your point in regard to your post I was initially replying to. It was a good point.
 
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keras

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Anyone can verify this for themselves.
Yes, Adam was created or was given a soul in 3970.5 BC

7000 years from the Creation to the Completion of Mankind:
Genesis 1:27 Adam was created in 3970.5 BC subtracted back from 586 BCE, from:

Gen 5:3 Seth +130, Gen 5:6 Enoch +105, Gen 5:9 Kenan +90, Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +70, Gen 5:15 Jared +65, Gen 5:18 Enoch +162, Gen 5:21 Methuselah +65, Gen 5:25 Lamech +187, Gen 5:28 Noah+182, Gen 7:6 The Flood came when Noah was +600, Gen 11:10 Our year 2314.5 BC

Arpachshad +2 - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah +35, Gen 11:14 Heber +30, Gen 11:16 Peleg +34, Gen 11:18 Reu +30, Gen 11:20 Serug +32, Gen 11:22 Nahor +30 , Gen 11:24 Terah +29, Gen 11:26 Abram +70, Abram was +52 when God called him and they left Ur. Our year 1970.5 BCE He lived in Haran for 23 years, then went to Canaan at age 75. Genesis 12:4 Total years so far = 2000

Gen 17:1, Abraham was 99 when the Covenant was made with God. +47 Genesis 17:1-8
Galatians 3:17 Paul states that the Law was given +430 after the Covenant. Total years elapsed until the Exodus – 2477, in our year 1493.5 BC.

1 Kings 6:1 The Temple construction starts, in the 4th year of King Solomon +480 since the Torah was given at the Exodus.. 1 Kings 11:42 Solomon 40 minus 4 = +36, 1 Kings 14:21 Rehoboam +17, 1 Kings 15:2 Abijah +3, 2 Chron 16:13 Asa +41, 1 Kings 22:42 Jehoshaphat +25, 2 Kings 8:17 Jehoram +8, 2 Kings 8:26 Ahaziah +1, 2 Kings 11:1-3 Athaliah +6, 2 Kings 12:1 Joash +40, 2 Kings 14:2 Amaziah +29, 2 Kings 15:1-2 Azariah +52, 2 Kings 15:33 Jotham +16, 2 Kings 16:2 Ahaz +16, 2 Kings 18:1-2 Hezekiah +29, 2 Kings 21:1 Manasseh +55, 2 Kings 21:19 Amon +2, 2 Kings 22:1 Josiah +31, 2 Kings 23:31 Jehoahaz +3mths, 2 Kings 23:36 Jehoiakim +11, 2 Kings 24:8 Jehoichin +3mths, 2 Kings 24:18-20 Zedekiah +11, who ruled until the Babylonian captivity in our year of 586 BC.

Total elapsed years to the first exile of Judah = 3386.5

586 BC + 613.5 years + 2 comes to 29.5/30 AD, the date of Jesus’ acknowledgment as King of Israel. Plus 2 to include the total number of elapsed years, as our calendar system counts years from their commencement.
3386.5 + 613.5 = 4000 years from Adam to Jesus.

June 2022 AD - 29.5/30 AD = 1992 years since Jesus made His triumphal entry into Jerusalem on the first Palm Sunday

1992 + 4000 = 5991=2 years, is where we are now. 5992 + 8 = 6000 years
2022 AD + 8 = 2030 AD


Exactly 2000 years for the present Church age, until Jesus Returns.
4000 since Abraham, 6000 since Adam. Next comes the 1000 year reign of King Jesus.

The final wrap up and the Great White Throne judgement of all people: 7000 years.
Revelation 22...I saw a new Heaven and a new Earth and the Holy City, made ready like a bride... A new Beginning!


Addendum: Because Jesus worked in His mission on earth for 3½ years, the two ‘days’ prophesied in Hosea 6:2 and confirmed by Jesus in Luke 13:32, that He will spend in heaven from Ascension to Return, maybe should have the 3½ years added to it, making a total of 2003.5 years since 29.5 AD = 2033 for His Return and the commencement of the Millennium. Ref: logostelos.info

 
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EclipseEventSigns

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Staff Edited Quote
[Staff Edit] Many people have accepted liberal seminary "experts" preaching from the pulpits for generations. I've asked questions for years - since Sunday School. I never got proper answers until I started to really dig into why all the various Christian traditions really came about.

Some of the biggest questions that I finally got answered to my satisfaction (no where near complete):
1. How can there be 3 full days between Good Friday and Easter Sunday
2. Why does Daniel 9:25-26 read completely differently in the English language Bibles? Compare KJV to the ESV for example.
3. Why does the Church in the Western tradition put so much emphasis on the Greek New Testament manuscripts and almost no one knows that there is a New Testament in Aramaic, the language that Jesus and all of Judea spoke when they lived?
Once I went down those rabbit holes, the entire flow of history and the proofs of 7000 years that I presented in the first post were the result.
 
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rwb

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[Staff Edit] Many people have accepted liberal seminary "experts" preaching from the pulpits for generations. I've asked questions for years - since Sunday School. I never got proper answers until I started to really dig into why all the various Christian traditions really came about.

Some of the biggest questions that I finally got answered to my satisfaction (no where near complete):
1. How can there be 3 full days between Good Friday and Easter Sunday
2. Why does Daniel 9:25-26 read completely differently in the English language Bibles? Compare KJV to the ESV for example.
3. Why does the Church in the Western tradition put so much emphasis on the Greek New Testament manuscripts and almost no one knows that there is a New Testament in Aramaic, the language that Jesus and all of Judea spoke when they lived?
Once I went down those rabbit holes, the entire flow of history and the proofs of 7000 years that I presented in the first post were the result.

I'm not assuming you have not studied this and come to the conclusions you have. My problem is that the whole of your conclusions stem from the first point you make.

"1. Assuming that God's word is true when it states in multiple places that 1000 literal years is equivalent to a Day according to God, then this provides some tangible data points."

Conclusions based on assumptions almost always come from preconceived ideas and opinions. Never a good place to start.
 
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rwb

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This is a small sampling of the article I linked of what I feel is very well researched using the Bible without approaching it with a preconceived opinion to prove.

Copyright ©1996 Tony Warren
For other studies free for the Receiving, Visit our web Site
The Mountain Retreat! http://www.mountainretreatorg.net
Feel free to duplicate, print, copy, display or distribute this publication to anyone who would like a copy, as long as the copyright notice remains intact and there are no changes made to this article.

The Patriarchal genealogies of scripture hold the key to knowing the age of the earth, and how to unlock the record of those early years. God has locked the information about the timing of man's past history in the family genealogies.

The way the system worked is that when a Patriarch reference died (let's call him Patriarch 'A'), a child in his family line that is born in that same year, became the next Patriarch reference (Patriarch 'B'). Therefore the counting of years begins at his birth. And When this Patriarch 'B' died, a man-child in his direct lineage that was born in the same year he (Patriarch 'B') died, became the next Patriarch reference (Patriarch 'C'). i.e., in the early years of the Patriarchs, the references changed in the year that the previous Patriarch died. So to count the years you would count Patriarch A + Patriarch B + Patriarch C (their total ages). And in the two cases where there is not the population yet where no descendant are born in the year that the Patriarch died (as in the time of Adam or Noah), God gives us the information of the immediate son, so he can become the next Patriarch reference. Up until the time of the Patriarch father Abraham to whom the promises were made, this is the method of keeping track of time that was used. Then Abraham became the Patriarch father up until Christ, whom he foreshadowed.

The deaths of Patriarchs are recorded because these are the genealogical reference points that show us how much time has passed in those early years of the world.

God is very careful to let us know what year the Flood was, who the world was dated by, who and how people's lives and ages relate to it, the relationship between it and births and deaths, etc. Some examples:

Genesis 7:6
  • "And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth."
Genesis 8:13
  • "And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the Ark, and looked.."
Genesis 9:28
  • "And Noah lived after the flood 350 years."
Genesis 9:29
  • "And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years and he died."
Genesis 11:10
  • "Shem was a hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood."
Subtract 350 years that Noah lived after the flood, from the 950 years that Noah lived, you get 600. Funny, (not really) that's exactly how old God said Noah was when the floods came, and at the turn of the new year (the 601 year, 1st month, 1st day - genesis 8:13) the flood ended and waters were dried up. In God's calendar, He has dated it all from Noah's life span. That is the important thing to remember in this. And you should not leave Genesis 8:13-14 without understanding the implications of that. It establishes (to those who believe the Bible) beyond a shadow of a doubt, the validity of the Patriarchal family reference. Time was measured from Noah's life from the day he was born, till the next Patriarch. That means that before he was born, time was "obviously" measured from someone else's life span. Because the world was not 600 years old at the flood, Noah was.

It's important that we realize a Patriarch, or generation father, does not mean an immediate father. In other words, just because it says one "begat" another, doesn't mean that it is his immediate father. In Bible terms, you can be the son of someone in the 3rd and forth generations. An example would be, if I was named David, and had a grandfather named John, I could be spoken of as a son of John, even though he was my grandfather. And it could be written that, John begat David. That doesn't mean I was his immediate son. It means that I came from the loins or genealogical line of this man, John. There could be two or more generations in between. This is just as many Jewish people even today speak of themselves as "the sons or seed of Abraham," and indeed, they clearly called themselves children of Abraham in speaking to Christ (at the time of the cross). While the word begat 'can' mean a father son relationship, it doesn't 'have to' mean that. While most serious Bible students already know this, I will set forth an example to "prove" this. What better example than the very genealogical references we are following. We read in the genealogical record of the Patriarchal Father Arphaxad (Son of Shem),

Genesis 11:12
  • "And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah: And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters."
The casual reader might think that this means Arphaxad was the immediate father of Salah. But they would be in error, and a careful study of the scriptures would reveal this. Unfortunately, not a lot of Christians do careful study of the scriptures, and when they do, they ignore more than they take in. But concerning this we can read in Luke:
Luke 3:35
  • "....Which was the son of Sala, which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech."
We see conclusively that in between Arphaxad and Salah (Sala) was a son named Cainan. So the question is, "why is he not named in the genealogies of Genesis chapter 11?" the answer is, "Because he is NOT one of the Patriarch references of the Biblical timeline of History." He is not of a generation used for dating. He is not a Patriarch reference, and that is why he is not included in the reference. So we have clear Biblical evidence that begat does not signify a immediate father son relationship, and also that the genealogy of Genesis 11 is not a strict immediate father/son relationship as some try and force it to be. That is the key. That is the reason that so many have such a hard time understanding the numbers of Genesis chapters 5 and 11. They'll say "this one begat that one," means his immediate father. But then they come into conflict with other things of scripture, like the number of children born in a specific time period. So then they proceed to doubt the accuracy of the numbers in the Bible. Once that starts, you might as well forget about the scriptures as an authority. The numbers are one hundred percent correct, the names are correct, it's man's understanding of them that is in error. Begat does not always mean an immediate father/son relationship, and the reference in Luke proves that.
 
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parousia70

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1. Assuming that God's word is true when it states in multiple places that 1000 literal years is equivalent to a Day according to God, then this provides some tangible data points.

Do you not assume God's word is true when it says that 1000 literal years is equivalent to "a watch in the night" to God, which is a length of time demonstrably shorter than "a day"? (Psalm 90:4)

Please update your calculations to reflect this undeniable biblical, tangible data point, and get back to us with your results.
I'll get you started. "A watch in the night" is a period of 3-6 hours.
 
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EclipseEventSigns

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I'm not assuming you have not studied this and come to the conclusions you have. My problem is that the whole of your conclusions stem from the first point you make.

"1. Assuming that God's word is true when it states in multiple places that 1000 literal years is equivalent to a Day according to God, then this provides some tangible data points."

Conclusions based on assumptions almost always come from preconceived ideas and opinions. Never a good place to start.
[Staff Edit] Are you saying we can not assume God's word is true? It's pretty clear what the text says. No interpretation needed here.
 
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EclipseEventSigns

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Do you not assume God's word is true when it says that 1000 literal years is equivalent to "a watch in the night", which is a length of time demonstrably shorter than "a day"? (Psalm 90:4)

Please update your calculations to reflect this undeniable biblical, tangible data point, and get back to us with your results.
I'll get you started. "A watch in the night" is a period of 3-6 hours.

Again, everyone should verify the research. Until you have, it's not worth responding to your posts.
 
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EclipseEventSigns

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No! Of course not! I'm saying you cannot assume a day is a thousand literal years. That is building a doctrine on your assumption.
I take what God clearly said as truth. As I said, look at the evidence and then state your opinions.
 
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PLEASE READ CAREFULLY!

I don't want to have to come back here. "Small cleanup" up is a HUGE exaggeration.


WHAT WENT WRONG?


Let's start with the basics:

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Now let's move onto the bulk of the violations.

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BillCody

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[Staff Edit] Many people have accepted liberal seminary "experts" preaching from the pulpits for generations. I've asked questions for years - since Sunday School. I never got proper answers until I started to really dig into why all the various Christian traditions really came about.

Some of the biggest questions that I finally got answered to my satisfaction (no where near complete):
1. How can there be 3 full days between Good Friday and Easter Sunday
2. Why does Daniel 9:25-26 read completely differently in the English language Bibles? Compare KJV to the ESV for example.
3. Why does the Church in the Western tradition put so much emphasis on the Greek New Testament manuscripts and almost no one knows that there is a New Testament in Aramaic, the language that Jesus and all of Judea spoke when they lived?
Once I went down those rabbit holes, the entire flow of history and the proofs of 7000 years that I presented in the first post were the result.

I'm like you. I also believe in the 7000 years of God dealing with mankind. He's following his work 6 days and rest the 7th day just like he command us to do. I find God to be a do as I do Father, but his days are a little different than ours. There is a issue with the whole 0 year thing. Some say add a year and some say -1 year.

As far as the Good Friday to Easter Sunday for a full three days. You would have to be very bad at math to make that work. But what I have learned is this. There was a Jewish feast that required a sabbath rest after the crucifixion of Christ that ran into the saturday sabbath. Accounting for the the 3 days He spent in Paradise.

Just remember some of us get excited about the soon return of our Lord Jesus Christ. And some don't ( I think for obvious reasons)
 
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EclipseEventSigns

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In case it was not made clear from the start, the purpose of this thread is to discuss the information in my first and original post. It is not meant to talk about other competing theories of human history. Start another thread if that is what you want to do.

This thread is for people to examine the evidences that were presented, ask questions about the methods that were used in the research, check out the information for themselves and discuss their reactions.

Please abide by this stated purpose.
 
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DavidPT

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It is not meant to talk about other competing theories of human history.


Why would that not be relevant? If the OP is insiting that it has been roughly 6000 years from creation until now, but that someone else is already convinced it has been longer, such as 10,000 years or more, why would that person even entertain anything in the OP unless it can first be shown to him or her that human history is not 10,000 years or more, it has only been around 6000 years thus far? That's why I got into a debate with rwb, for example. He is is coming from the pov that human history is not close to 6000 years thus far, it is much longer. And that he already had human history involving close to 6000 years by the time Noah's flood happened. Until or if anyone can first convince him otherwise, that human history is getting close to 6000 years insted, it makes no sense for him to entertain anything in the OP in the meantime. It's your thread of course, I'm just trying to look at this from different povs, and what the OP would mean to me if I was already convinced human history has been more than 10,000 years thus far, but that the OP is insisting it has only been around 6000 years thus far.

Speaking for myself, I pretty much agree with everything in the OP though I'm not fully convinced the day of the Lord is involving an entire thousand years. If it is, I'm simply not seeing it, and that I already presented some reasons why. Other than that, I'm not seeing anything else in the OP that I might disagree with.
 
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rwb

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The OP doesn't really give much that one might use to prove or disprove the assumptions made. And the attachment gave only an error message, so was not help at all.

Just to prove that I am not altogether in disagreement with the OP, I also believe the Day of the Lord is indeed the thousand years recorded by John in Rev 20. The difference of course is that I view the Day of the Lord as being a thousand symbolic years that goes from the Messiah's first coming to the end of this symbolic time when Satan will be freed from his pit for a little season. You see I do not believe understanding the symbolic thousand years as a way to establish the age of the earth, but rather as a time reference given using symbology to establish the length of time given the universal church to build the Kingdom of heaven by proclaiming the Kingdom of heaven unto all the earth.

So don't know if your assumptions are based on the genealogical record of Gen 5 & 11 But if they are there is a problem for using the chronological data from Gen 5 & 11 assuming an unbroken male lineage, with numbers of years, from the creation to Abraham being called out of Ur of the Chaldeans. Because it can and has been proven from the Bible that the chronology a Patriarch, or generation father, does not always mean immediate father. Just because it says one "begat" another, doesn't mean that it is his immediate father. If this is how or even partly how one goes about trying to determine the age of the earth, they are in error. To give an example:

Genesis 11:12
  • "And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah: And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters."
The casual reader might think that this means Arphaxad was the immediate father of Salah. But they would be in error.

Luke 3:35
  • "....Which was the son of Sala, which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech."
In between Arphaxad and Salah (Sala) was a son named Cainan. So, the question is, "why is he not named in the genealogies of Genesis chapter 11?" the answer is, "Because he is NOT one of the Patriarch references of the Biblical timeline of History." He is not of a generation used for dating. He is not a Patriarch reference, and that is why he is not included in the reference. So we have clear Biblical evidence that begat does not signify a immediate father son relationship, and also that the genealogy of Genesis 11 is not a strict immediate father/son relationship as some try and force it to be.

Not meaning to be difficult, simply giving information you may not have considered to arrive at your assumptions.
 
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EclipseEventSigns

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The OP doesn't really give much that one might use to prove or disprove the assumptions made. And the attachment gave only an error message, so was not help at all.

Just to prove that I am not altogether in disagreement with the OP, I also believe the Day of the Lord is indeed the thousand years recorded by John in Rev 20. The difference of course is that I view the Day of the Lord as being a thousand symbolic years that goes from the Messiah's first coming to the end of this symbolic time when Satan will be freed from his pit for a little season. You see I do not believe understanding the symbolic thousand years as a way to establish the age of the earth, but rather as a time reference given using symbology to establish the length of time given the universal church to build the Kingdom of heaven by proclaiming the Kingdom of heaven unto all the earth.

So don't know if your assumptions are based on the genealogical record of Gen 5 & 11 But if they are there is a problem for using the chronological data from Gen 5 & 11 assuming an unbroken male lineage, with numbers of years, from the creation to Abraham being called out of Ur of the Chaldeans. Because it can and has been proven from the Bible that the chronology a Patriarch, or generation father, does not always mean immediate father. Just because it says one "begat" another, doesn't mean that it is his immediate father. If this is how or even partly how one goes about trying to determine the age of the earth, they are in error. To give an example:

Genesis 11:12
  • "And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah: And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters."
The casual reader might think that this means Arphaxad was the immediate father of Salah. But they would be in error.

Luke 3:35
  • "....Which was the son of Sala, which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech."
In between Arphaxad and Salah (Sala) was a son named Cainan. So, the question is, "why is he not named in the genealogies of Genesis chapter 11?" the answer is, "Because he is NOT one of the Patriarch references of the Biblical timeline of History." He is not of a generation used for dating. He is not a Patriarch reference, and that is why he is not included in the reference. So we have clear Biblical evidence that begat does not signify a immediate father son relationship, and also that the genealogy of Genesis 11 is not a strict immediate father/son relationship as some try and force it to be.

Not meaning to be difficult, simply giving information you may not have considered to arrive at your assumptions.
A complete 7000 year timeline of human history can be proven using only the information within the Old and New Testament (but not including the Septuagint, however). It uses the patriarch data as is given and with the common understanding of what the text is saying. It does take into account the proper interpretation of the 70 Weeks in Daniel (which is not what Anderson proposed). And it takes into account a literal understanding of the 1000 years = 1 day of God and 1000 year Day of the Lord in the common understanding of what that text is saying.
The difficult bits are the sequence of judges (they are often in parallel time frames) and the kings of Israel/Judah. But Scripture provides year ranges which combine those very detailed sequences so one does not have to get so lost in the weeds.
 
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rwb

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A complete 7000 year timeline of human history can be proven using only the information within the Old and New Testament (but not including the Septuagint, however). It uses the patriarch data as is given and with the common understanding of what the text is saying. It does take into account the proper interpretation of the 70 Weeks in Daniel (which is not what Anderson proposed). And it takes into account a literal understanding of the 1000 years = 1 day of God and 1000 year Day of the Lord in the common understanding of what that text is saying.

The difficult bits are the sequence of judges (they are often in parallel time frames) and the kings of Israel/Judah. But Scripture provides year ranges which combine those very detailed sequences so one does not have to get so lost in the weeds.

I don't deny this, others have searched the same Scriptures, and have arrived at opinions that differ from yours. My question regarding your computations is how do you biblically prove 1000 LITERAL years equal the Day of the Lord and 1 day of God? If you cannot prove this assumption from Scripture why should anyone believe your assumptions are correct?
 
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keras

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A complete 7000 year timeline of human history can be proven using only the information within the Old and New Testament (but not including the Septuagint, however). It uses the patriarch data as is given and with the common understanding of what the text is saying. It does take into account the proper interpretation of the 70 Weeks in Daniel (which is not what Anderson proposed). And it takes into account a literal understanding of the 1000 years = 1 day of God and 1000 year Day of the Lord in the common understanding of what that text is saying.
The difficult bits are the sequence of judges (they are often in parallel time frames) and the kings of Israel/Judah. But Scripture provides year ranges which combine those very detailed sequences so one does not have to get so lost in the weeds.
As I posted in #43.
Of course the truth of that timeline means we are within just a few years of all the very dramatic and frightening end times events. Many people reject this because they don't want to have to face that.
Tough!
 
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