Synodality in the RCC

[tampasteve]

Can anyone explain, in layman's terms, the significance and to what extent local synods are authorized to operate? I find the subject a bit confusing.

 

[Michie]

I do too. I ran across this but it still seems a bit vague in certain areas I wonder about but it explains it pretty well.

What is ‘synodality’? Experts explain

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I think it is supposed to be confusing so that no catches on.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Can anyone explain, in layman's terms, the significance and to what extent local synods are authorized to operate? I find the subject a bit confusing.

I think 'synodality' is a wormy word for giving up the Christian faith as we knew it for a pottage of sexual sin that we will all approve of. We are supposed to 'synodically' trash our old beliefs and adopt new beliefs.

As to how local synods work, I guess you will have to wait and see what the synod on synods tells us. Or just watch what is going on in the 'Synodical Way' in Germany as the entity formerly know as the Catholic Church devolves into something unrecognizable.

 

[Rhamiel]

Local synods were popular in ancient times to deal with local problems when communication was very slow
Since the early modern period (1600’s) especially the first Vatican Council they were used less and less
They were rejuvenated after Vatican II for several reasons, on a practical side it was a way for a nations bishops to show a unified front when dealing with the secular authorities of a nation.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Can anyone explain, in layman's terms, the significance and to what extent local synods are authorized to operate? I find the subject a bit confusing.

Like @Rhamiel said there is a historical pretext for synods, but they were essentially a tool so that the Vatican didn't have to manage every single detail of the worldwide Church. Rather, Rome set the tone of abiding by the Magisterium and the national churches stayed in conformity with that.

However, it would seem that now the concept has been hijacked by progressive elements in the Church who want to use it as a wedge issue to undermine the Magisterium and the Vatican's authority. Case in point: Germany. This whole "synods to discuss synods" thing that's coming up this fall in Rome is a murky thing, but it seems geared towards normalizing "synodality" even more which paves the way for more cracks in the armor of the Church that would let heresy, blasphemy, and sacrilege through.

 

[zippy2006]

Can anyone explain, in layman's terms, the significance and to what extent local synods are authorized to operate? I find the subject a bit confusing.

In the early Church synods were a common way for local disputes to be settled, and were a sort of mini-Council, which was of course the guiding governmental event of the early Church. A government which conceives of Councils as the highest authority--even above the Pope--is called Conciliarism. The alternative is called Papalism. After the Great Schism Rome started to push in a papalist direction, but the Great Western Schism and the Council of Constance brought with them a resurgence of Conciliarism in the West. There were ebbs and flows of Conciliarism and Papalism at least until the 19th century. At that time the Church moved in a papalist direction largely due to political and cultural events (e.g. French Revolution, Modernism, etc.). This was cemented with the defeat of Conciliarism at the First Vatican Council. In the mid-20th century we saw a shift in the other direction which culminated at the Second Vatican Council, a council which promoted the authority of the local bishop and a collegiality that is now slowly growing into 'synodality'. I think it is fair to say that there was a shift towards Conciliarism, but since full-blooded Conciliarism was rendered obsolete at the First Vatican Council we remain in a sort of middle position that leans towards Papalism (especially after the pontificate of John Paul II).

Local synods were active until the First Vatican Council but vanished soon after. A central question of Vatican II was the collegiality of bishops and how that collegiality is exercised. The topic was given short shrift and pulled from the docket by Pope Paul VI after the death of Pope John XXXIII. The existence of a collegial principle was affirmed in Lumen Gentium and Christus Dominus, but the nature and exercise of collegiality was never really addressed by the Council (as this is a thorny issue and brings back the spectre of Conciliarism).

"Synodality" is what rose up out of that when John Paul II implemented the desire of the Council. Yet since Vatican I, no synod has had more than advisory or consultative power. The Pope is sovereign over all synods, and he is usually the one that calls synods into existence. At the same time, Francis seems to be interested in a stronger synodal governance than his predecessors were comfortable with, and episcopal collegiality really ought to be more than merely consultative. As for the synod in Germany, it is still consultative, and the Vatican has affirmed this, but the Germans obviously don't agree with that and no one is quite sure how it will all cash out. There are serious ecclesiological disagreements at stake.

So in layman's terms: "Synods are authorized to operate in a capacity that is consultative and advisory to the Pope, who retains the final decision regarding any determinations."

-Synodality in the Life and Mission of the Church

 

[BrAndreyu]

If the church starts to be conciliatory towards and approving of homosexuality and transgenderist ideology, I have no problem leaving and finding a church that isn't & won't be.

I'm willing to put up with a lot, toleration and celebration of sodomy is my red line.

 

[Gnarwhal]

If the church starts to be conciliatory towards and approving of homosexuality and transgenderist ideology, I have no problem leaving and finding a church that isn't & won't be.

I'm willing to put up with a lot, toleration and celebration of sodomy is my red line.

I'll be honest if this were to happen I'd have a hard time not wondering whether Christ's promise that 'the gates of hell wouldn't prevail' was misinterpreted by the Church. I don't know if I'd leave, but I'd wonder whether the true remnant of the Catholic Church was within a group we presently consider schismatic.

But if it were to happen I would hope that there would be enough pushback from the worldwide church that the purveyors of that evil would be the ones who were cutoff, and not the faithful.

 

[BrAndreyu]

I don't know if I'd leave, but I'd wonder whether the true remnant of the Catholic Church was within a group we presently consider schismatic.

You know I actually wonder that a lot myself, because as I am always the pessimistic guy, I see the church bowing to pressure from liberal groups on the issue of sodomy in another 10-20 years. I think it has a lot to do with whatever it's going to take to keep young people from leaving the church, and the young generation has shown that it's going to be "social justice issues" being poised at the forefront of the church's mission that's going to keep them interested.

 

[Gnarwhal]

You know I actually wonder that a lot myself, because as I am always the pessimistic guy, I see the church bowing to pressure from liberal groups on the issue of sodomy in another 10-20 years. I think it has a lot to do with whatever it's going to take to keep young people from leaving the church, and the young generation has shown that it's going to be "social justice issues" being poised at the forefront of the church's mission that's going to keep them interested.

Oddly enough though, I kind of think it's the young people who are going to turn things around. The majority of converts are young people in their late teens up into their thirties, and they're converting because they're attracted to the more traditional and historically consistent expressions of Catholicism. That was my own personal experience as a convert too.

Now you go to a Latin Mass and the average age of attendees is well below that of a Novus Ordo Mass. So my gut tells me that it may take another generation, but once we've rid ourselves of this boomer hierarchy that's trying to shove the Age of Aquarius down the Church's throat then the pendulum will start swinging the other way. The groundwork is being laid for that right now with a more trad-leaning youth in the Church who's suspicious of the most of the leadership; we're waiting for an opportunity to spring the more traditional Church out of jail. Like Edmond Dantes escaping Chateau D'if.