Spiritual is not Material

[AV1611VET]

AMPC
For the unbelieving husband is set apart (separated, withdrawn from heathen contamination, and affiliated with the Christian people) by union with his consecrated (set-apart) wife, and the unbelieving wife is set apart and separated through union with her consecrated husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean (unblessed heathen, outside the Christian covenant)

Then why did Saul of Tarsus, who had a godly mother and grandmother, have to get saved?

 

[Aaron112]

Then why did Saul of Tarsus, who had a godly mother and grandmother, have to get saved?

What did you read otherwise ?

 

[AV1611VET]

What did you read otherwise ?

"Otherwise your children would be unclean (unblessed heathen, outside the Christian covenant)."

 

[Aaron112]

"Otherwise your children would be unclean (unblessed heathen, outside the Christian covenant)."

True. No contradiction in Scripture.

 

[Aaron112]

We are born with a sin nature.

 

[rockytopva]

Behold! We are mass in the plasmas hands!

1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,

2 Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.

3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.

4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying,

6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

11 Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.

12 And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart. - Jeremiah 18

It takes an effort and a cooperation on our part to make progress along the way. If the Calvinist are correct there will never be a cooperation on both parties too see such a change occur.

 

[SelfSim]

At least check for what is written instead of make such ungodly statements as you posted.

They are statements made by a human ... human statements ... y'know humans which we also have to deal with every second of our lives .. from birth to death.

Nothing is 'written' .. unless a human did that.

Get a grip, man!

 

[AV1611VET]

Nothing is 'written' .. unless a human did that.

There are four exceptions in the Bible, where God himself did the writing.

 

[SelfSim]

There are four exceptions in the Bible, where God himself did the writing.

If writing, in any way conveys human understandable meanings, its origins were demonstrably human.

You can believe anything you like, however .. including the human statements I wrote.

 

[AV1611VET]

If writing, in any way conveys human understandable meanings, its origins were demonstrably human.

With four exceptions:

1. the Ten Commandments twice
2. the writing on the wall (MENE MENE TEKEL UPHARISN)
3. Jesus writing on the ground

You can believe anything you like, however .. including the human statements I wrote.

I'm also interested in what God wrote through His secretaries.

 

[SelfSim]

With four exceptions:
{etc}

.. which is demonstrably just a (re)statement of your belief.
Use the right words to convey what you really mean, man!

I'm also interested in what God wrote through His secretaries.

Now the delusional part kicks in!

 

[AV1611VET]

.. which is demonstrably just a (re)statement of your belief.

You didn't think I was going to change it, did you?

Use the right words to convey what you really mean, man!

Sure.

Four times in the Bible, God wrote something in His own handwriting.

Now the delusional part kicks in!

What in that sentence makes it "delusional"?

Do you need a course in Amanuensis 101? or Verbal Plenary Inspiration?

(Or can academics take a hike? )

 

[dlamberth]

No. A newborn is UNCLEAN if neither parent is redeemed.

Way back in my past, my internal dealing with this mindset had a lot to do with my eventual rejection of the Christian faith.

 

[AV1611VET]

Way back in my past, my internal dealing with this mindset had a lot to do with my eventual rejection of the Christian faith.

Is that so you could join a religion that sees our cooties as divine manifestations?

 

[SelfSim]

You didn't think I was going to change it, did you?

No .. but it achieved the desired result .. you agree its a belief.
(Thank you for your honesty).

Sure.

Four times in the Bible, God wrote something in His own handwriting.
...
What in that sentence makes it "delusional"?

It all depends on how one defines 'delusion'. If its defined as a mental process that creates a model of reality that is not based on scientific analysis of objective data, then yes, of course religious beliefs, (along with 'what God's secretaries wrote'), are delusions, as is artistic inspiration, human emotion, music appreciation, aesthetics, and many other of the things that humans value more highly than the vast majority of science.
If its defined as a mentally generated image that actively contradicts observed data, then sadly science is a delusion as well, because all scientific predictions would then contradict observed data. Scientific delusions there, just achieve useful accuracy, (as defined by the practitioner). News flash: By that definition, so do religious delusions!

Coming back to the scientific paradigm, it would only be a delusion if a person claimed that their belief was scientifically proven, (like IDers), because it is logically impossible as anything but an axiom or an arbitrary definition. But most religious people simply don't care about this because they realize that their belief is subjective. They might not carry that more sophisticated understanding of their own beliefs around with them all the time, just as someone watching TV doesn't know the quantum mechanics of what they are seeing. They believe because it works for them and has value, just as TVs work as well for people who failed physics.

In this thread, my objection to the belief about newborn children being (figurately) 'unclean', (on the condition of the respective the parent's own belief status), is not based solely on objective reality .. I am claiming that it has no subjective value, nor does it work as a fellow human being because it contradicts parental subjective nurturing instincts (with God writing that through his secretaries). Even if you want to believe its a delusion that does have subjective value, (like the delusion that you are sitting on a chair right now and not a froth of quantum fields, or that anything in science is the actual reality, or like that it's better to cure a disease than to just die from it), then it still can accomplish its purpose as being a delusion.

 

[AV1611VET]

No .. but it achieved the desired result .. you agree its a belief.
(Thank you for your honesty).

It all depends on how one defines 'delusion'. If its defined as a mental process that creates a model of reality that is not based on scientific analysis of objective data, then yes, of course religious beliefs, (along with 'what God's secretaries wrote'), are delusions, as is artistic inspiration, human emotion, music appreciation, aesthetics, and many other of the things that humans value more highly than the vast majority of science.
If its defined as a mentally generated image that actively contradicts observed data, then sadly science is a delusion as well, because all scientific predictions would then contradict observed data. Scientific delusions there, just achieve useful accuracy, (as defined by the practitioner). News flash: By that definition, so do religious delusions!

Coming back to the scientific paradigm, it would only be a delusion if a person claimed that their belief was scientifically proven, (like IDers), because it is logically impossible as anything but an axiom or an arbitrary definition. But most religious people simply don't care about this because they realize that their belief is subjective. They might not carry that more sophisticated understanding of their own beliefs around with them all the time, just as someone watching TV doesn't know the quantum mechanics of what they are seeing. They believe because it works for them and has value, just as TVs work as well for people who failed physics.

In this thread, my objection to the belief about newborn children being (figurately) 'unclean', (on the condition of the respective the parent's own belief status), is not based solely on objective reality .. I am claiming that it has no subjective value, nor does it work as a fellow human being because it contradicts parental subjective nurturing instincts (with God writing that through his secretaries). Even if you want to believe its a delusion that does have subjective value, (like the delusion that you are sitting on a chair right now and not a froth of quantum fields, or that anything in science is the actual reality, or like that it's better to cure a disease than to just die from it), then it still can accomplish its purpose as being a delusion.

Wow.

Whatever.

As long as you don't understand, I guess you've made yourself happy.

 

[rockytopva]

Way back in my past, my internal dealing with this mindset had a lot to do with my eventual rejection of the Christian faith.

Note then from hence, That when you read that unclean beasts and unclean birds, may be in the ark of Noah: That unclean men, and unclean women, may be in the church of God: "One of you is a devil," was an admonition to all the rest: Let this also of the beasts unclean be an admonition to you. - Genesis - John Bunyan

 

[dlamberth]

Is that so you could join a religion that sees our cooties as divine manifestations?

Not at all. It's because I see our Soul as an activity of God.