Some Evangelical Leaders Speaking Out Against Separating Child/Parent Migrates

[2tim_215]

When and why did they move away from those? I remember seeing such a facility in an article a few years ago and thought that they were still in use.

We housed Japanese families together for several yrs.....

At least that was during a war. Since when were we at war with the Honduras?

 

[rjs330]

Not all arrested persons go to jail. Many await their trial in other circumstances, sometimes in the bosom of their families. The shoplifter, in your example, would probably not be held in jail pending trial. Why is it so important to deal so harshly with perpetrators of what amounts to a victimless crime?

A person is given bail based upon circumstances. One of the largest is the persons likely hood of appearing for hearings. Knowing the situation of those coming here the odds are really high that if we let them go they will disappear.

 

[wing2000]

Then they should present themselves at a port of entry or the proper designated post at the border, as opposed to unlawfully entering the country and then alleging an asylum claim after be apprehended for unlawful entry.

Perhaps this is due to capacity, but there reports like the one below indicating the Trump Administration is literally blocking entry on border bridges:

Under a new policy, federal border agents stationed in the middle of international bridges are turning away asylum seekers like the Berduos, telling them there is no room in U.S. Customs and Border Protection stations for them.

Since arriving on Monday, the family said they had tried three times to cross into the U.S., and three times border agents turned them back.

...

Christina Patiño Houle, director of the Rio Grande Valley Equal Voice Network, says the administration is giving a mixed message. Federal officials are telling asylum applicants to stop wading across the river and entering unlawfully. Rather, they should come through an official port of entry.

"A message is being broadcast across the nation that migrants should be seeking asylum through official channels, and it's just not possible," Patiño Houle says. "What we're seeing on the ground is that people are being turned away. They're being told that either there's no room or they cannot enter the bridge."

After Traveling 2,000 Miles For Asylum, This Family's Journey Halts At A Bridge

 

[NotreDame]

Don't you think that's where they take people into Custody too?

I’ve said from the beginning people arrested are taken to a jail.

 

[NotreDame]

I disagree. Stopping people from speeding protects people, property, and maintains order. Yet we obviously don't arrest every single person who speeds. You've stated an important premise, but it's not sufficient to justify arrest. I need more of an argument.

Really if possible, can we keep these posts in one back and forth? (*edit not meant in a badgering way, just don't want to get too sidetracked)

Bad analogy. Speeding isn’t a crime in many jurisdictions, but it’s an infraction and considered a civil action. People aren’t arrested for non-crimes. Where it’s considered criminal it’s not arrestable and treated differently because it is demonstrably a very low risk and threat to properly, order, and life.

And speeding isn’t always a potential threat to those interests I mentioned and doesn’t always implicate those interests we discussed, but illegally entering the country potentially does implicate those interests every time.

Regardless, you haven’t shown arresting people unlawfully entering as unjust and I did present the argument why it’s just.

 

[NotreDame]

The day after the standoff with the gangmembers, Rosa and her granddaughter fled. Fifteen days later, on November 18, 2016, they presented themselves at the Port of Entry in El Paso and asked for asylum. The granddaughter was released to her mother (who was living in the Houston area). Rosa, meanwhile, has been in Immigrations and Customs Enforcement’s (ICE) EPPC detention center ever since—18 months and counting.
ICE Is Sending a Message to the World’s Asylum Seekers: The US Is No Place of Refuge

In this case there was family the granddaughter could go to stay with. If this had been a mother with small children they would have been separated.

I’m gonna look into this more but what they did seems to be impermissible under the law.

 

[AllButNone]

Bad analogy.

If you don't mind, I'm going to wait until you to respond to the rest, before I respond to this.

 

[Radagast]

However, afaik, people with strong asylum cases ask for asylum at the border. In that case, no crime is committed.

In 2016, 115,399 asylum applications were lodged at the border (but only 10.2% of those succeeded), while 65,218 asylum applications were made after deportation processes had started (and 13.4% succeeded).

 

[Radagast]

In this case there was family the granddaughter could go to stay with. If this had been a mother with small children they would have been separated.

The Office of Refugee Resettlement handles children of detained adults on the same basis as unaccompanied children. They do their best to find relatives in the USA, I understand, and look for foster families otherwise.

The big question, I guess, is: should children be detained with their parents? Those countries that do that cop a lot of criticism.

 

[Hank77]

At least that was during a war. Since when were we at war with the Honduras?

My point was that we could afford to do it and found a way to do it (keeping families together). We should be able to find a way to keep these families together.

 

[mark46]

My point was that we could afford to do it and found a way to do it (keeping families together). We should be able to find a way to keep these families together.

Let's be clear. It against the law to have an innocent child in jail for more than 21 days.

Yes, Trump could have decided not to arrest those with children who come over illegally. After all, these children come with their parents SOME of the time (less than 20%).

Trump could let Congress off the hook. Congress can INDEED pass a bill this week and put it on his desk. The policy wioul change since the law would change. Or Trump won't sign and the fight will be out int he open.

Obama and the courts have dealt with the fact that Congress won't act. Now Trump has refused to accept all this working around Congress.

 

[NotreDame]

We housed Japanese families together for several yrs.....

I gave this some thought, and they didn’t “house” people there arrested for a crime, charges, and facing prosecution.

There are legitimate safety concerns housing that many adults with minor children. It’s not wise or prudent to place in a detention center that many children with so many adults. It’s a recipe for disaster.

The Obama administration family detention centers were, if I recall correctly, for women with children who were 1 year of age or younger.

 

[NotreDame]

My point was that we could afford to do it and found a way to do it (keeping families together). We should be able to find a way to keep these families together.

Why should this be done though?

It’s not done for U.S. citizens who are arrested and separated from the kids. Should it also be done for U.S. citizens? Should we just begin building family jails for U.S. parents arrested for a crime?

 

[Hank77]

There are legitimate safety concerns housing that many adults with minor children. It’s not wise or prudent to place in a detention center that many children with so many adults. It’s a recipe for disaster.

The Obama administration family detention centers were, if I recall correctly, for women with children who were 1 year of age or younger.

If it just families all the adults are parents of these children. I don't think that would be especially dangerous for the kids.

I can't say for sure but I pretty sure I saw photos of much older children than babies. I can't imagine what my 2 1/2 yr. old grandson would do if you took him away from his mom.

 

[camille70]

Perhaps this is due to capacity, but there reports like the one below indicating the Trump Administration is literally blocking entry on border bridges:

Under a new policy, federal border agents stationed in the middle of international bridges are turning away asylum seekers like the Berduos, telling them there is no room in U.S. Customs and Border Protection stations for them.

Since arriving on Monday, the family said they had tried three times to cross into the U.S., and three times border agents turned them back.

...

Christina Patiño Houle, director of the Rio Grande Valley Equal Voice Network, says the administration is giving a mixed message. Federal officials are telling asylum applicants to stop wading across the river and entering unlawfully. Rather, they should come through an official port of entry.

"A message is being broadcast across the nation that migrants should be seeking asylum through official channels, and it's just not possible," Patiño Houle says. "What we're seeing on the ground is that people are being turned away. They're being told that either there's no room or they cannot enter the bridge."

After Traveling 2,000 Miles For Asylum, This Family's Journey Halts At A Bridge

I was coming to post this. Reporting I saw said they are denying the ability to apply for asylum, causing people who feel they have no choice to cross illegally.

It was reported on Rachel Maddows show today that one father said to send him back to be killed as long as his daughter can stay and be safe.

The youngest a child is supposed to be and separated is 4, but we know that it is happening to younger kids, a breastfeeding child was taken from his mother's arms.

The agents aren't allowed to care for the kids in any manner. Other kids are being taught how to change diapers because agents aren't allowed to so it.

Even people who do enter legally and request asylum are having their kids snatched.

There is no method to track the kids and reunite them with their families.

I'm starting to get stressed and worn out. Feeling angry and helpless. Praying for the families and I will be donating next week. The recording of the children crying today sent me over the edge. The WH simultaneously lying about this being an intentional new policy, while doing their strut walk to take credit and brag is unbelievable. The fact that Trump has so successfully brainwashed his base to distrust media is allowing them to disregard reporting and having Kirstjen lying with dead eyes saying reports are false.

Something has to give.

 

[camille70]

The Office of Refugee Resettlement handles children of detained adults on the same basis as unaccompanied children. They do their best to find relatives in the USA, I understand, and look for foster families otherwise.

The big question, I guess, is: should children be detained with their parents? Those countries that do that cop a lot of criticism.

It was reported the other day that they aren't handling all the children anymore. ICE is taking over part of it, if not all, and relatives are not coming to claim the children due to fear of being deported.

It was also reported that there is about 10,000 kids in our custody. At this rate of creating unaccompanied kids it will be 20,000 by August. Yet I'm expected to believe nothing has changed.

 

[wing2000]

In 2016, 115,399 asylum applications were lodged at the border (but only 10.2% of those succeeded), while 65,218 asylum applications were made after deportation processes had started (and 13.4% succeeded).

...and after Jeff Sessions precluded applicants who have suffered from gang or domestic violence, that number will go still lower.

It's a decision that has no basis in asylum guidelines.

 

[wing2000]

I'm starting to get stressed and worn out. Feeling angry and helpless. Praying for the families and I will be donating next week. The recording of the children crying today sent me over the edge. The WH simultaneously lying about this being an intentional new policy, while doing their strut walk to take credit and brag is unbelievable. The fact that Trump has so successfully brainwashed his base to distrust media is allowing them to disregard reporting and having Kirstjen lying with dead eyes saying reports are false.

Yes, the blatant lying and finger pointing by Trump and his HHS Secretary today was hard to stomach.

This is the 2nd time Trump has exploited immigrant minors to further his political agenda. First it was DACA...and now this. In either case, Trump or his AG could end it with the stroke of a pen.

 

[TLK Valentine]

At least that was during a war. Since when were we at war with the Honduras?

Since when are we at war with Canada? or Mexico? or China?

...Since Donald says so.

 

[Traveling teacher]

we are at war with mexican drug lords....

164,000 have died in the drug war in Mexico in the last few years.....
The Staggering Death Toll of Mexico's Drug War
thats more americans that died in veitnam

doesnt count all the inner city drug war deaths going on in America......
600 a year in chicago alone.....

there is only one solution....
BUILD THE WALL.....ASAP