Slander and murder, do you still support Israel's actions?

[Bob Crowley]

Lawrence died in 1935. Oil was discovered in Saudi Arabia 3 years later in 1938. Why would Lawrence negotiate with the big oil companies? Revisionist history perhaps?

Southern Iran had oil and it was under the control of the British. The British navy had switched from coal to oil and much of it came from Iran, which is in the Middle East if not Arabic.

The Discovery of Oil in the Middle East | History of Western Civilization II

courses.lumenlearning.com

• In March of 1908, after years of difficult conditions and failure, geologist George Bernard Reynolds discovered oil in Persia (modern-day Iran).
• A year later, an oil company in the UK, Burmah Oil, created a subsidiary company to develop oil production in Persia, the Anglo-Persian Oil Company (APOC), which started volume production of oil by 1913.
• Britain’s Royal Navy was under the leadership of Winston Churchill, who wanted to shift its fuel source from coal to oil. The Navy thus became the company’s major customer and a de facto hidden power behind its success.
• Iranian popular opposition to the APOC’s royalty terms whereby Iran only received 16% of net profits was widespread and created political discontent throughout the country.

The first productive oil wells in Iraq were drilled in 1927. Although the earlier San Remo Conference of 1920 stated Iraqis should be allowed 20% of the relevant oil company if they wanted to invest, existing shareholders kept them out (most likely American and other shareholders).

Conference of San Remo | League of Nations, Treaty of Sevres, Mandates System | Britannica

Conference of San Remo, (April 19–26, 1920), international meeting convened at San Remo, on the Italian Riviera, to decide the future of the former territories of the Ottoman Turkish Empire, one of the defeated Central Powers in World War I; it was attended by the prime ministers of Great Britain,

www.britannica.com

The San Remo conference (1920) had stipulated that Iraqis should be allowed 20% of the company if they wanted to invest in it, but the existing shareholders successfully resisted Iraqi efforts to participate, despite pressure by the British government to accept Iraqi shareholders.

TE Lawrence's main concern was Arab independence. Granted the huge oil reserves of Saudi Arabia weren't discoverd till 1938, but the British controlled Iranian oil and the amount the Iranians received for their national resource.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I thought Hamas started the Israeli war.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I thought Hamas started the Israeli war.

They did...

 

[Landon Caeli]

Southern Iran had oil and it was under the control of the British. The British navy had switched from coal to oil and much of it came from Iran, which is in the Middle East if not Arabic.

The Discovery of Oil in the Middle East | History of Western Civilization II

courses.lumenlearning.com

The first productive oil wells in Iraq were drilled in 1927. Although the earlier San Remo Conference of 1920 stated Iraqis should be allowed 20% of the relevant oil company if they wanted to invest, existing shareholders kept them out (most likely American and other shareholders).

Conference of San Remo | League of Nations, Treaty of Sevres, Mandates System | Britannica

Conference of San Remo, (April 19–26, 1920), international meeting convened at San Remo, on the Italian Riviera, to decide the future of the former territories of the Ottoman Turkish Empire, one of the defeated Central Powers in World War I; it was attended by the prime ministers of Great Britain,

www.britannica.com

TE Lawrence's main concern was Arab independence. Granted the huge oil reserves of Saudi Arabia weren't discoverd till 1938, but the British controlled Iranian oil and the amount the Iranians received for their national resource.

The Iranians still owe us for all the rigs, the refineries, and everything we set up *for them*, so that they could just throw us out on the street broke, after spoon feeding them all the knowledge, and literally building the whole thing for them, for free, I guess.

...Next time, don't steal from thousands of foreigners, by making promises, and then going back on your word for payment, when the job is done.

Imagine me having a contractor build my house, and then I decide all the wood came from my property, and it's on my property anyways, so I'm just not going to pay.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Well don't worry we showed them what happens to people who don't give us everything we think we deserve... We install extremists over their people to keep them in line, and keep them away from our oil profits.

Fixed those people right up. How dare anyone decide to nationalize their own oil when we found it for them.

And even to this day, the tension still remains. It's the price one has to pay when they make promises, and then have a change of heart, and break them... Like a marriage turned divorce, with all the backstabbing, lying and cheating, jealousy, and every other sin. All the same exists between Iran and the West.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I was told we are not allowed to call it evil to install the Ayatollahs over the people of Iran so I'm removing this post.

 

[Bob Crowley]

I think the CIA miscalculated the long term results of their move to replace Mossadegh. His primary interest was getting rid of the British with their "rule-or-ruin" Iran attitude.

Initially the US resisted British efforts to remove Mossadegh, but when Eisenhower came into power, their attitude changed.

The Coup Against Iran’s Mohammad Mossadegh – Association for Diplomatic Studies & Training

adst.org

Mohammad Mossadegh became Prime Minister of Iran in 1951 and was hugely popular for taking a stand against the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, a British-owned oil company that had made huge profits while paying Iran only 16% of its profits and often far less. His nationalization efforts led the British government to begin planning to remove him from power. In October 1952, Mosaddegh declared Britain an enemy and cut all diplomatic relations. Britain was unable to resolve the issue unilaterally and looked towards the United States for help. However, the U.S. had opposed British policies; Secretary of State Dean Acheson said the British had “a rule-or-ruin policy in Iran.”

That changed after Dwight D. Eisenhower was elected President in 1952. Now, pleas from British intelligence officials and Winston Churchill to oust Mossadegh had a more receptive audience. Beginning in January 1953, the U.S. and the Britain agreed to work together toward Mosaddegh’s removal.

The Shah took over as ruler, descended into dictatorship and he was then removed by the Ayatollahs.

They still remember Mossadegh and the CIA's role in his removal. They don't trust the USA.

PS - This happened not long before I was born so it is ancient history as far as I'm concerned. I didn't get on with my father as I've made clear elsewhere but we did sometimes talk. He had a fair grasp of history (with an Irish bias as Crowley is an Irish name) and I still remember his saying the CIA engineered the removal of Mossadegh, adding "... and he was their democratically elected leader".

 

[BCP1928]

The Australian Government supported a UN sponsored ceasefire.

For doing that the Israeli Ambassador criticised the Australian Government.

‘Shockingly amateurish’: Australian government delivers veiled rebuke to Israel over UN agency comments

Exclusive: Canberra insider hits back at Amir Maimon who accused Australia of forgetting ‘Hamas culpability’ for 7 October attacks

www.theguardian.com

If you so much as differ from the official Israeli line, you're likely to be slandered.

Israel was established in 1948 because the West had a guilty conscience about the way Europeans had treated the Jews.

More importantly, the West wanted a western-style secular state in Middle East run by Europeans.

Way back after World War I TE Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) pleaded with western colonial powers and the big oil companies to give the Arabs independence and a share in the oil proceeds. But no, the Arabs were going to get nothing!

To rub salt into the wound, the West enforced Zionist sovereignty on Palestine, which was Arab by that time and had been for centuries.

The problems in the Middle East didn't start in 1948.

 

[BCP1928]

Well, I'll never apologize for 1930's people. I never knew them, and I don't mean that literally, I mean it spiritually and literally.

As far as blaming the West, forget it! Not happening.

It is happening. Plenty of people are blaming the West as being complicit--and with good reason.

 

[Landon Caeli]

It is happening. Plenty of people are blaming the West as being complicit--and with good reason.

Then we'll double-down. And do it again.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I think I like 1930's people all of a sudden... I mean, if I am them and they are me, then so be it - They live on in us then.

 

[DaisyDay]

Well don't worry we showed them what happens to people who don't give us everything we think we deserve... We install extremists over their people to keep them in line, and keep them away from our oil profits.

Fixed those people right up. How dare anyone decide to nationalize their own oil when we found it for them. they should be grateful for anything we determine to give them, how dare anyone demand more fairness.

Now they have something to think about the next time their sister is raped for not wearing hijab probably, for generations to come. Shoulda, woulda, coulda.. maybe next time they will do as they are told by their betters.

Too many people actually believe this line of propaganda.

 

[BCP1928]

Then we'll double-down. And do it again.

I take it you believe that the carving up of Ottoman territories by the Western Powers after WWI was entirely just and equitable?

 

[Landon Caeli]

I take it you believe that the carving up of Ottoman territories by the Western Powers after WWI was entirely just and equitable?

No, I just think if you're going to include me, a Westerner, in that, then I have no choice but to embrace who I am.

...It's the lesson that never gets learned - blaming an entire group, for the flaws of a select few.

...It's how we keep it going. Forever

 

[BCP1928]

No, I just think if you're going to include me, a Westerner, in that, then I have no choice but to embrace who I am.

If, when I talk about Western Powers having a hand in creating the present mess by their actions before you were born I mean you, personally, then you identify sufficiently as a Westerner to bear some of the blame.

...It's the lesson that never gets learned - blaming an entire group, for the flaws of a select few.

We can name names, if you want (Sykes, Picot, Allenby, the board of directors of the Anglo-Iranian oil company, etc.) but it is more convenient just to call them the Western Powers. No one but a fool whoud think we were blaming all of the citizens of those powers at the time and their descendants as well.

 

[Landon Caeli]

If, when I talk about Western Powers having a hand in creating the present mess by their actions before you were born I mean you, personally, then you identify sufficiently as a Westerner to bear some of the blame.

We can name names, if you want (Sykes, Picot, Allenby, the board of directors of the Anglo-Iranian oil company, etc.) but it is more convenient just to call them the Western Powers. No one but a fool whoud think we were blaming all of the citizens of those powers at the time and their descendants as well.

Well, we've seen this before, when people talk about today's people making reparations to the descendants of black slaves. So I'm leary on whether you're serious about blaming the descendants or not.

That's why our choice of words is important.

 

[BCP1928]

Well, we've seen this before, when people talk about today's people making reparations to the descendants of black slaves. So I'm leary on whether you're serious about blaming the descendants or not.

That's one possibility

That's why our choice of words is important.

But only Original Sin is inherited, the rest we committ ourselves. For example, how much of US policy toward the war in Gaza is being influenced by Christian Zionists?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Essentially, I'm a colonizing, slave holding, Indian slaying, indulgence selling, etc, etc....

Where do I go from here? I am BAD.

 

[BCP1928]

Essentially, I'm a colonizing, slave holding, Indian slaying, indulgence selling, etc, etc....

Where do I go from here? I am BAD.

Why do you feel you need to take responsibility for all that?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Why do you feel you need to take responsibility for all that?

Because I was also told Individualism is bad.