Skulls, Halloween, dark stuff...

[Butterfly]

I'm not sure where else to put this thread so I thought this would be a good place to start.

In my walk, I have encountered many Christians who like things like skulls and dark clothing and weapons and things that I would consider to be more of the "dark side" kind of stuff. Usually when I question them about it, their response is that the devil wants us to think of it negatively, but that skulls are a good reminder of our mortality and so to live for Christ each day...and the dark clothing and weapons and stuff like that, most of them say it just looked cool to them, and they have no real moral conviction on either side of things.

Personally, I'm not into that kind of stuff at all. But I know many dear Christians who like that kind of stuff, some of whom show more real love of Christ than Christians who are "clean cut".

I probably won't participate much in this thread but I want to see what you all think. References to Scripture are much appreciated, and I also am interested in learning about that side of things, where it came from and stuff like that so I will check into any article posted to see what I can learn. Just curious!

I believe that if they don't have any moral conviction over it, then either God has not spoken to them yet about it, or maybe there is nothing wrong with it. I don't judge based on appearances, although I do believe in presenting ourselves in a way that people know we're different. But I also believe that presenting ourselves as such can be something as simple as just not swearing, or not complaining, or being kind...all things that seem to be missing in a lot of work places and community places. So I don't know if the presentation should be more focused on the inward or the outward. I know God looks at the heart, so you'd think He'd want us to look there too. I know people who will write off people who look "rough" without even talking to them to find out who they are. I could never do that. Some of the roughest looking people in my experience have some of the softest, most genuine of hearts.

Thoughts?

ETA: I don't like Halloween at all...the spider webs, skulls, stuff about ghosts...I'm also leery about the ghost/supernatural stuff. That would go right up there with the "dark stuff" in my book and I try to stay away from it.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I'm not sure where else to put this thread so I thought this would be a good place to start.

In my walk, I have encountered many Christians who like things like skulls and dark clothing and weapons and things that I would consider to be more of the "dark side" kind of stuff. Usually when I question them about it, their response is that the devil wants us to think of it negatively, but that skulls are a good reminder of our mortality and so to live for Christ each day...and the dark clothing and weapons and stuff like that, most of them say it just looked cool to them, and they have no real moral conviction on either side of things.

Personally, I'm not into that kind of stuff at all. But I know many dear Christians who like that kind of stuff, some of whom show more real love of Christ than Christians who are "clean cut".

I probably won't participate much in this thread but I want to see what you all think. References to Scripture are much appreciated, and I also am interested in learning about that side of things, where it came from and stuff like that so I will check into any article posted to see what I can learn. Just curious!

I believe that if they don't have any moral conviction over it, then either God has not spoken to them yet about it, or maybe there is nothing wrong with it. I don't judge based on appearances, although I do believe in presenting ourselves in a way that people know we're different. But I also believe that presenting ourselves as such can be something as simple as just not swearing, or not complaining, or being kind...all things that seem to be missing in a lot of work places and community places. So I don't know if the presentation should be more focused on the inward or the outward. I know God looks at the heart, so you'd think He'd want us to look there too. I know people who will write off people who look "rough" without even talking to them to find out who they are. I could never do that. Some of the roughest looking people in my experience have some of the softest, most genuine of hearts.

Thoughts?

ETA: I don't like Halloween at all...the spider webs, skulls, stuff about ghosts...I'm also leery about the ghost/supernatural stuff. That would go right up there with the "dark stuff" in my book and I try to stay away from it.

Holiness is an inward and spiritual thing first of all.

It might have some effect on the outward, but it's an inward and spiritual thing first and foremost.

Some legalistic churches seem to think that if a young lady wears floppy skirts and has long hair down her back, no tattoo, only one set of earrings, then this is 'spiritual'.

Whereas if she wears frayed jeans, black mascara and has a Bible verse tattoo in black tribal style on her wrist, this is 'unspiritual', supposedly.

Re. skulls, a lot of women do seem to feel that a skull design, piece of jewlery, etc. can be styled in a quite feminine way.

(Is this the sort of comment you were looking for, maybe?)

Blessings.

 

[Inkachu]

There is definitely a human fascination with death. It's completely normal and common to all cultures. It fascinates us because it's common to everyone - it will happen to us all - but we can't understand it, we can't explain it, and nobody can tell us about it, because it's a one-way street! Ghosts, vampires, ghouls, all of that stems from eons of human beings struggling with their own mortality and the great, mysterious unknown. We find the idea of things like vampires to be somewhat romantic, because it addresses the questions of eternity and immortality; what would it be like to never die, to never lose someone you love, etc. That's not evil IMO. That's human.

From that angle, I don't think it's necessarily evil or sinful to feel curious or fascinated with death (skulls, etc). I also don't think it's necessarily bad to use facets of the macabre as a means of entertainment (ie, a children's Halloween party with skeletons or ghosts).

But there's a line that can be crossed, where a person goes from curious or philosophical, into obsessed with dark things. If you fantasize about killing, if you engage in occult activities, if you become more interested in death than in life... that is where it becomes a problem.

Halloween has grown to encompass so many different things, it's hard to say what's OK and not OK. I think it varies widely depending on the individual and the circumstances. I love playing spooky sound effects from my windows on Halloween night; wolves howling, wind blowing, floors creaking. Others, however, will be walking around splattered in guts with knives sticking out of their heads or dressed like demonic monsters. I'm cool with the first scenario, but not the second. I think there's a big difference.

 

[Butterfly]

I'm talking about men and women alike...I know a few men who just like skulls and "dark stuff" to the point they'll wear shirts that have skulls on them and stuff like that...I have several friends like that actually. These are folks who like Halloween, even look forward to it...have no problem decorating their house with ghosts and skulls and the likes. I have nothing against them but it has got me thinking about the spiritual side of it. I'm wondering how much it REALLY matters in the long run.

I know most Christian sects would kick folks like that out of church, which I kind of find really sad. I know we are not to put on the appearance of evil...and then there's Romans 12:1-2...of course.

 

[Butterfly]

There is definitely a human fascination with death. It's completely normal and common to all cultures. It fascinates us because it's common to everyone - it will happen to us all - but we can't understand it, we can't explain it, and nobody can tell us about it, because it's a one-way street! Ghosts, vampires, ghouls, all of that stems from eons of human beings struggling with their own mortality and the great, mysterious unknown. We find the idea of things like vampires to be somewhat romantic, because it addresses the questions of eternity and immortality; what would it be like to never die, to never lose someone you love, etc. That's not evil IMO. That's human.

From that angle, I don't think it's necessarily evil or sinful to feel curious or fascinated with death (skulls, etc). I also don't think it's necessarily bad to use facets of the macabre as a means of entertainment (ie, a children's Halloween party with skeletons or ghosts).

But there's a line that can be crossed, where a person goes from curious or philosophical, into obsessed with dark things. If you fantasize about killing, if you engage in occult activities, if you become more interested in death than in life... that is where it becomes a problem.

Halloween has grown to encompass so many different things, it's hard to say what's OK and not OK. I think it varies widely depending on the individual and the circumstances. I love playing spooky sound effects from my windows on Halloween night; wolves howling, wind blowing, floors creaking. Others, however, will be walking around splattered in guts with knives sticking out of their heads or dressed like demonic monsters. I'm cool with the first scenario, but not the second. I think there's a big difference.

I think you have some good points here. I have only viewed it as a spiritual thing, not a human thing. It makes me wonder how much "humanness" God is ok with. I mean, He made it pretty clear we're to sacrifice ourselves, to give all of us up and follow Him...does that mean giving up those kind of things? Honestly I don't think so.

But then I think...if the world sees these believers with the "dark" stuff, there's two ways they could take it. Either they could see it and think that we're just like them and there would be no distinction or they could see that believers are human and can enjoy human stuff too, and it could be a witness or an open door to become a witness of some sort. So that's where I'm divided.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I'm talking about men and women alike...I know a few men who just like skulls and "dark stuff" to the point they'll wear shirts that have skulls on them and stuff like that...I have several friends like that actually. These are folks who like Halloween, even look forward to it...have no problem decorating their house with ghosts and skulls and the likes. I have nothing against them but it has got me thinking about the spiritual side of it. I'm wondering how much it REALLY matters in the long run.

I know most Christian sects would kick folks like that out of church, which I kind of find really sad. I know we are not to put on the appearance of evil...and then there's Romans 12:1-2...of course.

Some tribal art involves skull motifs.

And for example, plenty of conservative-minded farm people have the skull of a steer, etc. at their gate. It would be odd if at the same time they gave young people a hard time because they liked the skull motif.

Blessings.

 

[Butterfly]

See, I LOVE the tribal look, minus the skulls lol. I think tribal stuff looks so cool...and I've had people tell me THAT is wrong because, well, it's tribal.

But it just looks cool from an artistic point of view.

So just as I think tribal stuff looks cool, someone else can think that skulls look cool, it's the same kind of thing I guess. I don't have any conviction about tribal stuff, just as someone else may not have a conviction about skulls.

My thing with skulls is that obviously, it's kind of a representation of death. And I know skull and crossbones was originally a part of or a sign of a satanic ritual. So do I think it's ok to bear the image of something that is related to something like that? I don't really think so. But in the same way, someone riding a Harley could be associated with Hell's Angels...so wearing anything with HD on it might be wrong...so how far do we/I want to take it? I don't know.

 

[abysmul]

We all have skulls. We all die. When we die, that left over skull is matter... but it doesn't matter.

If anyone puts anything before Christ, there's a problem... simply because someone wears black clothing with skulls printed on T-shirts doesn't mean they are putting it before Christ.

 

[Inkachu]

You need to be careful that you don't wander into legalism here. "If I do A, God's OK with me, but if I do A + B, God's displeased with me".

Remember that God looks at your HEART beyond all else.

If I'm wearing a tribal tattoo and it means nothing "dark" or "evil" to me and I love Jesus with all my soul... is God frowning at my tattoo or is He delighting in my relationship with Him?

It's good to ask God "what do you think about this, Lord?" But if you don't get conviction that you're doing something you shouldn't be... don't over-think too much

 

[faroukfarouk]

See, I LOVE the tribal look, minus the skulls lol. I think tribal stuff looks so cool...and I've had people tell me THAT is wrong because, well, it's tribal.

But it just looks cool from an artistic point of view.

So just as I think tribal stuff looks cool, someone else can think that skulls look cool, it's the same kind of thing I guess. I don't have any conviction about tribal stuff, just as someone else may not have a conviction about skulls.

My thing with skulls is that obviously, it's kind of a representation of death. And I know skull and crossbones was originally a part of or a sign of a satanic ritual. So do I think it's ok to bear the image of something that is related to something like that? I don't really think so. But in the same way, someone riding a Harley could be associated with Hell's Angels...so wearing anything with HD on it might be wrong...so how far do we/I want to take it? I don't know.

Tins: You mean like this kind of pattern?

debbiedoesdecals dot com

 

[Butterfly]

I am pleasantly surprised by the LACK of legalism in this thread...I am happy to see that. I am trying to get away from legalism, which is what I was raised with. That's why I'm broaching these subjects (and I'm also keeping track of the tattoo thread) because I want to get away from the legalistic viewpoints and get more in line with what God really wants me to be focusing on. But I'm a VERY visual person, and was also raised to judge on appearance, so it's hard to sort of be "OK" with things that make me think of death...lol. And Halloween, everyone knows that it's "satan's holiday" so why would I want to participate in that?

With that said, I take part in Christmas, and it, too, was a pagan holiday. Sooooo...yeah. However, I was raised without Christmas...for that very reason. But I love Christmas because of Christ and his coming, and because it's another time to be able to give to those I love. Halloween, I don't know, it's at night and it's all about that supernatural, death, scary stuff...lol...so I don't know. I certainly don't want to be legalistic...that's why I'm trying to educate myself so that I can understand and accept that which is foreign to me.

 

[Butterfly]

Tins: You mean like this kind of pattern?

debbiedoesdecals dot com

Yes, I love that...anything like that...and I love the Celtic type designs for the same reason. There's something just kind of unique and artsy about it that catches my eye.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Regarding skulls, some people would say that they can represent that that wearer is confident and not afraid of death and firm to his or her convictions for the rest of their lives, etc.

Blessings.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Yes, I love that...anything like that...and I love the Celtic type designs for the same reason. There's something just kind of unique and artsy about it that catches my eye.

So would this kind of design be the sort of thing that you would get if you did decide to go to the parlor?

Some people seem to be able to combine a Christian motif with a skull motif also. (I'll look again for something I saw; I'll see if I can find it.)

Blessings.

 

[ViaCrucis]

There's little darker and more menacing than the cross itself.

Consider: crucifixion was the way the Romans tortured and executed dissidents, rebels, slaves, etc. It wasn't just about torturing and killing a person in a brutal way, people were crucified in very public places, along busy roads. It was particularly common in the outer edges of the Roman empire in conquered territories. It was a statement, "We're in charge, remember that" It was about keeping people in line with fear.

The cross was an ugly, grotesque symbol of Roman oppression.

But because of One who was nailed to a cross, the cross is for us the symbol of victory over death, the symbol of God's defiance against the violent and hostile powers of this world. We proudly wear the cross and display it because by it God conquered the world.

There are other things to consider as well. Why should we be terrified of symbols of death--skulls etc? Death is defeated under the heel of Christ the Lord; and indeed it is our solemn hope that on the Last Day when the Lord comes we shall be raised up from the dead to new and bodily life.

When we take symbols of spooky and dark things, of death and dreary things and transform them into harmless fun and mock them we are declaring that they are not a power over us to be feared.

Lastly, we need to remember what Hallowe'en actually is. It is actually the Eve of All Hallows or All Saints. A day on the Christian calendar set aside for remembering the dearly departed saints of God, to remember that there is no death in Jesus, that death is defeated, and even those who have died live with Him and that one day there will be a resurrection from the dead, there will be a day when we are all reunited again when God makes all things new at the coming of the Lord in glory.

So Hallowe'en for what it actually is is a deliberately Christian day.

The spooky silly stuff is for the kids. But even in that we can use to remember that none of the dark things of this fallen and present age has victory over us, for we belong to Christ who has overcome all the wicked and violent and dark powers of this world by His cross and empty tomb. We have no reason to fear, but we have every reason to rejoice.

"Christ is risen from the dead,
trampling down death by death,
and to those in the tombs,
bestowing life."

-CryptoLutheran

 

[abysmul]

And Halloween, everyone knows that it's "satan's holiday" so why would I want to participate in that?

Everyone does? Satan's holiday? Do you have any Biblical support to claim that Satan has holidays? Do you have any historical information of the origin of Halloween and it's evolution to what it is today?

 

[Butterfly]

Everyone does? Satan's holiday? Do you have any Biblical support to claim that Satan has holidays? Do you have any historical information of the origin of Halloween and it's evolution to what it is today?

No I don't, I'm going based on what I was raised with, which is why I'm happy to be proven wrong (which it appears by the post above yours, I have been).

I'm open to learning and changing my views. I realize that a lot of the teachings I grew up with were twisted...so I'm willing to change in order to get to the truth of things.

 

[Butterfly]

There's little darker and more menacing than the cross itself.

Consider: crucifixion was the way the Romans tortured and executed dissidents, rebels, slaves, etc. It wasn't just about torturing and killing a person in a brutal way, people were crucified in very public places, along busy roads. It was particularly common in the outer edges of the Roman empire in conquered territories. It was a statement, "We're in charge, remember that" It was about keeping people in line with fear.

The cross was an ugly, grotesque symbol of Roman oppression.

But because of One who was nailed to a cross, the cross is for us the symbol of victory over death, the symbol of God's defiance against the violent and hostile powers of this world. We proudly wear the cross and display it because by it God conquered the world.

There are other things to consider as well. Why should we be terrified of symbols of death--skulls etc? Death is defeated under the heel of Christ the Lord; and indeed it is our solemn hope that on the Last Day when the Lord comes we shall be raised up from the dead to new and bodily life.

When we take symbols of spooky and dark things, of death and dreary things and transform them into harmless fun and mock them we are declaring that they are not a power over us to be feared.

Lastly, we need to remember what Hallowe'en actually is. It is actually the Eve of All Hallows or All Saints. A day on the Christian calendar set aside for remembering the dearly departed saints of God, to remember that there is no death in Jesus, that death is defeated, and even those who have died live with Him and that one day there will be a resurrection from the dead, there will be a day when we are all reunited again when God makes all things new at the coming of the Lord in glory.

So Hallowe'en for what it actually is is a deliberately Christian day.

The spooky silly stuff is for the kids. But even in that we can use to remember that none of the dark things of this fallen and present age has victory over us, for we belong to Christ who has overcome all the wicked and violent and dark powers of this world by His cross and empty tomb. We have no reason to fear, but we have every reason to rejoice.

"Christ is risen from the dead,
trampling down death by death,
and to those in the tombs,
bestowing life."

-CryptoLutheran

Thank you for your input...this is what I am looking for...to be able to learn about this kind of stuff.

I was raised that Halloween was satan's holiday...that lots of satanic rituals are performed on that day and by doing halloween, we would be associating ourselves with something that is evil and of the devil...so we don't want to give the devil a foothold.

It is important for me to stand guard, because I don't want to be deceived. In that, the devil could make something very bad look "OK" enough for us to accept it, under the guise of it being cool or whatever...and since the devil is a master deceiver, I don't want to be caught in that snare. With that said, I also don't want to be so "on guard" that I close myself off to things (and people) that are morally just fine.

 

[Butterfly]

So would this kind of design be the sort of thing that you would get if you did decide to go to the parlor?

Some people seem to be able to combine a Christian motif with a skull motif also. (I'll look again for something I saw; I'll see if I can find it.)

Blessings.

This thread is not about tattoos.

 

[faroukfarouk]

This thread is not about tattoos.

Gothic jewelry, for example?

Blessings.