Sign of the Cross

[Annoula]

hello everybody!

i would like to ask about the sign of the Cross. i think Catholics do it with four fingers. can you please explain what the fourth fingers symbolize?

also can you please tell me what does the sign of the Cross symbolize?


thank you!

 

[epiclesis]

I haven't really seen anybody do it, although I do... but technically it's supposed to be thumb, index, middle finger... the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...
while your fourth and fifth fingers bent into you palm because of the two natures of Christ, the nature of God and the nature of man.

The sign of the cross symbolizes the cross... it's a prayer in and of itself.

 

[Annoula]

I haven't really seen anybody do it, although I do... but technically it's supposed to be thumb, index, middle finger... the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...
while your fourth and fifth fingers bent into you palm because of the two natures of Christ, the nature of God and the nature of man.

The sign of the cross symbolizes the cross... it's a prayer in and of itself.

um... you mean that Catholics don't cross themselves???
but i thought they did....

the cross you describe is the Orthodox crossing. i think Catholics do it a different way....

 

[epiclesis]

um... you mean that Catholics don't cross themselves???
but i thought they did....

the cross you describe is the Orthodox crossing. i think Catholics do it a different way....

No no, I meant that most people (Catholics) who do the sign of the cross don't decipher with the fingers, they kind of just do with whatever is there, hand, couple fingers, whatever....

 

[Skripper]

I haven't really seen anybody do it, although I do... but technically it's supposed to be thumb, index, middle finger... the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...
while your fourth and fifth fingers bent into you palm because of the two natures of Christ, the nature of God and the nature of man.

The sign of the cross symbolizes the cross... it's a prayer in and of itself.

Steph, you haven't seen it? Every Mass begins with it:

Entrance Procession:
[After the people have assembled, an opening song or entrance antiphon is sung or recited as the priest and the ministers enter the church and process to the altar; after reverencing the altar (sometimes also using incense), they go to their chairs.]
Greeting:
Priest: In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. [All together make the sign of the cross.]
All: Amen. (Emphasis added)

http://catholic-resources.org/ChurchDocs/Mass.htm

 

[Globalnomad]

I have not been taught any particular rule for the position of the fingers during the sign of the Cross. Have any others among us?

Now, if you just do it "naturally", with a relaxed hand, it will seem like four fingers, because of their relative length and because the thumb will find itself under the first two fingers and will seem to touch the forehead, too.

 

[epiclesis]

Steph, you haven't seen it? Every Mass begins with it:

Entrance Procession:
[After the people have assembled, an opening song or entrance antiphon is sung or recited as the priest and the ministers enter the church and process to the altar; after reverencing the altar (sometimes also using incense), they go to their chairs.]
Greeting:
Priest: In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. [All together make the sign of the cross.]
All: Amen. (Emphasis added)

http://catholic-resources.org/ChurchDocs/Mass.htm

Everyone's misunderstanding what I'm saying, lol

I meant I haven't seen people choose to put the three finger together and the two fingers against their palm when doing the sotc...
Of course I've seen it... a million and one times

 

[Skripper]

Everyone's misunderstanding what I'm saying, lol

I meant I haven't seen people choose to put the three finger together and the two fingers against their palm when doing the sotc...
Of course I've seen it... a million and one times

LOL! Such is the nature of written words on a message board.

Like Globalnomand, I too have never been taught, or for that matter ever seen any sort of instruction on, any particular positioning of the fingers.

 

[epiclesis]

I was never properly taught it either, but I believe I read it several places... I think it's an oooolllllddddd thing... but when I 'teach' it... I teach it my way

 

[Annoula]

the 3 finger cross is the way Orthodox do it. it resembles the Trinity. and the 2 remaining fingers symbolize Christ's 2 natures, the divine and the human.


sorry i am not interested in preaching here... i just thought that there might be a symbolism in the Catholic Cross as it is in the Orthodox.

also, i know that the Orthodox say that the areas of the body that we use to make our cross symbolize something, is there something relevant to the Catholic??


i am in no way trying to make any preaching here. i just try to see if there's relevance to the Orthodox and Catholic way.

thank you.

 

[Globalnomad]

Don't worry, Annoula, it did not come across as preaching at all!

The Orthodox symbolism is richer than ours and very beautiful. It would be easy for us to adopt it. I am just a little worried about those last two fingers... it might seem as if we (both you and we, that is!) were making a point against our ancient Oriental brothers. It would not be so actually - they also believe in Christ's divine and human natures, it's just that they emphasise the fact that the two natures never separated. But anyway, I would want to make sure they are not getting the impression that we are trying to rub that dusty old Chalcedon dispute up their noses.

As for the four spots on our body... I don't remember beign taught anything about those, either. But here the symbolism is fairly obvious... sanctifying our mind, our heart, and the physical power of our body.

 

[Febe]

the 3 finger cross is the way Orthodox do it. it resembles the Trinity. and the 2 remaining fingers symbolize Christ's 2 natures, the divine and the human.

.......................................................................... This is the way I do it also! And the same reason...

 

[Credo]

I was never taught from my childhood a specific way to hold my fingers when making the sign of the cross. However, in my older years, I learned that there was an Eastern tradition which holds the thumb and first two fingers together with the last two fingers flat against the palm. Then, with head bowed, the three fingers are used to touch the forehead, breast, and shoulders while saying "In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit." The three fingers symbolize the Holy Trinity while the two fingers against the palm symbolize the two natures of Christ, human and Divine. This has been the way I have crossed myself ever since.

JMJ

 

[Annoula]

As for the four spots on our body... I don't remember beign taught anything about those, either. But here the symbolism is fairly obvious... sanctifying our mind, our heart, and the physical power of our body.

i think i've heard that too...
i also remember that the move from head to belly symbolizes that God came down to earth through Virgin Mary's womb. and the move across the shoulders means that He did that to unify us people. but i think there's another symbolism in this move which i never manage to remember....




thanx for your replies people!!!!

 

[Skripper]

the 3 finger cross is the way Orthodox do it. it resembles the Trinity. and the 2 remaining fingers symbolize Christ's 2 natures, the divine and the human.


sorry i am not interested in preaching here... i just thought that there might be a symbolism in the Catholic Cross as it is in the Orthodox.

also, i know that the Orthodox say that the areas of the body that we use to make our cross symbolize something, is there something relevant to the Catholic??


i am in no way trying to make any preaching here. i just try to see if there's relevance to the Orthodox and Catholic way.

thank you.

Yes, it has symbolic meaning to Catholics:

1235 The sign of the cross, on the threshold of the celebration, marks with the imprint of Christ the one who is going to belong to him and signifies the grace of the redemption Christ won for us by his cross.

In Catholicism, though, while there is not, to my knowledge, any current specific "official" or binding meaning attributed to the individual digits (fingers/thumb). There has over time been various developments, in both East and West, in both "how" the sign of the cross is made, and its meaning. The early evidence indicates that in the early part of the Church, the sign of the cross was made on the "brow" or forehead:

The course of development seems to have been the following. The cross was originally traced by Christians with the thumb or finger on their own forehead . . . "In all our travels and movements", says Tertullian (De cor. Mil., iii), "in all our coming in and going out, in putting of our shoes, at the bath, at the table, in lighting our candles, in lying down, in sitting down, whatever employment occupieth us, we mark our foreheads with the sign of the cross". On the other hand this must soon have passed into a gesture of benediction, as many quotations from the Fathers in the fourth century would show. Thus St. Cyril of Jerusalem in his "Catecheses" (xiii, 36) remarks: "let us then not be ashamed to confess the Crucified. Be the cross our seal, made with boldness by our fingers on our brow and in every thing; over the bread we eat and the cups we drink, in our comings and in goings; before our sleep, when we lie down and when we awake; when we are travelling, and when we are at rest".

Later developments, for various reasons, resulted in what we have today, in both east and west (though the East has probably been more consistent, over time, in the "how" and "why" of it, after it evolved/developed):


The course of development seems to have been the following. The cross was originally traced by Christians with the thumb or finger on their own foreheads. This practice is attested by numberless allusions in Patristic literature, and it was clearly associated in idea with certain references in Scripture, notably Ezech., ix, 4 (of the mark of the letter Tau); Ex., xvii, 9-14; and especially Apoc., vii 3; ix, 4; xiv, 1. Hardly less early in date is the custom of marking a cross on objects -- already Tertullian speaks of the Christian woman "signing" her bed (cum lectulum tuum signas, "Ad uxor.", ii, 5) before retiring to rest-and we soon hear also of the sign of the cross being traced on the lips (Jerome, "Epitaph. Paulæ") and on the heart (Prudentius, "Cathem.", vi, 129). Not unnaturally if the object were more remote, the cross which was directed towards it had to be made in the air. Thus Epiphanius tells us (Adv. Hær., xxx, 12) of a certain holy man Josephus, who imparted to a vessel of water the power of overthrowing magical incantations by "making over the vessel with his finger the seal of the cross" pronouncing the while a form of prayer. Again half a century later Sozomen, the church historian (VII, xxvi), describes how Bishop Donatus when attacked by a dragon "made the sign of the cross with his finger in the air and spat upon the monster". All this obviously leads up to the suggestion of a larger cross made over the whole body, and perhaps the earliest example which can be quoted comes to us from a Georgian source, possibly of the fourth or fifth century. In the life of St. Nino, a woman saint, honoured as the Apostle of Georgia, we are told in these terms of a miracle worked by her: "St. Nino began to pray and entreat God for a long time. Then she took her (wooden) cross and with it touched the Queen's head, her feet and her shoulders, making the sign of the cross and straightway she was cured" (Studia Biblica, V, 32). It appears on the whole probable that the general introduction of our present larger cross (from brow to breast and from shoulder to shoulder) was an indirect result of the Monophysite controversy. The use of the thumb alone or the single forefinger, which so long as only a small cross was traced upon the forehead was almost inevitable, seems to have given way for symbolic reasons to the use of two fingers (the forefinger and middle finger, or thumb and forefinger) as typifying the two natures and two wills in Jesus Christ. But if two fingers were to be employed, the large cross, in which forehead, breast, etc. were merely touched, suggested itself as the only natural gesture. Indeed some large movement of the sort was required to make it perceptible that a man was using two fingers rather than one. At a somewhat later date, throughout the greater part of the East, three fingers, or rather the thumb and two fingers were displayed, while the ring and little finger were folded back upon the palm. These two were held to symbolize the two natures or wills in Christ, while the extended three denoted the three Persons of the Blessed Trinity. At the same time these fingers were so held as to indicate the common abbreviation I X C (Iesous Christos Soter), the forefinger representing the I, the middle finger crossed with the thumb standing for the X and the bent middle finger serving to suggest the C. In Armenia, however, the sign of the cross made with two fingers is still retained to the present day. Much of this symbolism passed to the West, though at a later date.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13785a.htm

 

[Skripper]

The current Orthodox form and meaning, (which has been used for centuries) I think, is good, since it appears to have developed as a response to the Monophysite heresy.

 

[Annoula]

These two were held to symbolize the two natures or wills in Christ, while the extended three denoted the three Persons of the Blessed Trinity. At the same time these fingers were so held as to indicate the common abbreviation I X C (Iesous Christos Soter), the forefinger representing the I, the middle finger crossed with the thumb standing for the X and the bent middle finger serving to suggest the C. In Armenia, however, the sign of the cross made with two fingers is still retained to the present day.

thanx for the article!

regarding what you are saying about the I X C this is the way that bishop 's bless or the clergy in general as far as i remember. lay people do not cross themselves or bless others this way. they just do the normal Orthodox cross.

i don't know if you people also do it, but it is nice to see mothers crossing their children when children leave home for school or whatever. my mother does that and although in the beginning it felt strange (cause she can do it in public too!!!) it is a blessing...

 

[Skripper]

thanx for the article! ...

You're welcome.