Shouldn't all Evangelicals want Christian Nationalism?

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

The policy proposal is not relevant as I fundamentally disagree with its concept. Establishing a Christian nation lacks biblical support.

It's entirely relevant. Do you disagree with me when I suggest we outlaw pornography?

 

[Fervent]

No, but I don't think he was speaking absolutely literally. Neither do you since you don't actually hate your wife, your mother or father or your children.

I suppose it's easy to not take Him seriously if you just say He wasn't being literal.

Excuse me, you are the one insisting on a literal interpretation that we are to hate all others, literally viscerally hate all others. Why are you like this?

Viscerally hate? Nope. But it seems to me the underlying point is a matter of being singularly loyal to Jesus.

Clearly it's true and you're being dishonest.

If you say so

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I suppose it's easy to not take Him seriously if you just say He wasn't being literal.

Do you also believe we should castrate boys and ourselves if we can't control our lust? Or cut off our right hands?

Viscerally hate? Nope. But it seems to me the underlying point is a matter of being singularly loyal to Jesus.

Then don't be loyal to your wife, whom you hate.

If you say so

It's true though. You're just being dishonest throughout this conversation.

 

[stevevw]

Okay, but there is no barrier from Christian Nationalism at all implied there. Would Paul have objected to the Gospel spreading into the government and being officially recognized there?

Isn't our very knowledge of the Gospel largely due to the fact that God used Christendom and Christian monarchies to spread it throughout the middle ages? These are the times when the Gospel spread like wildfire. Why would Evangelicals be against a popular movement to go in that direction again, away from the gods of democracy and liberty.

I think if there is anything that a government can do to support Christainity and the Gospel is to allow Christianity and not be biased towards it. Be neutral and allow Christainity to be what is will be.

At the moment there is an antagonism towards Christainity and God and some of it may be deserved from the bad behaviour of the church. But much is unjustified.

In being nuetral governments should also allow the facts to come out. Base policy on facts and not ideology even if thats Christain belief. If God is the creator that means nature is ordered by God as well. So Christtains should be confident that the facts will also support them. So let the facts come out and stand for what they are and not hide them or be biased against them.

For example a core belief of Christainity is marriage and the traditional family. So let the evidence be known that this is the best way to order families and build society on. Let that be known rather than push alternatives in its place. Let all options be known for the truth to be known and then people will see the difference and make up their own minds.

Allowing the truth to come out is allowing for Gods truth to come out.

 

[Fervent]

Do you also believe we should castrate boys and ourselves if we can't control our lust? Or cut off our right hands?

It would certainly be better than ending up in hell.

Then don't be loyal to your wife, whom you hate.

My loyalty lies with Christ and Christ alone.

It's true though. You're just being dishonest throughout this conversation.

In what way?

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

It's entirely relevant. Do you disagree with me when I suggest we outlaw pornography?

YES I disagree with you 100%.

Outlawing sins like pornography cannot make people holy or save them from hell; that's why Jesus came. If laws could save us, Old Testament Israel would have been perfect and Jesus wouldn't have needed to come.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

YES I disagree with you 100%.

Outlawing sins like pornography cannot make people holy or save them from hell; that's why Jesus came. If laws could save us, Old Testament Israel would have been perfect and Jesus wouldn't have needed to come.

Alright, so you are of the position that pornography must be tolerated in society and accepted? This is your position as a Christian, that we cannot do anything to stop it and therefore would you encourage laws in society which offer protections for pornographers?

By the way, I never said it would make people holy. Do you believe we should have laws against murder or theft? What about laws which limit marriage to monogamous unions? Should we expand marriage to be allowed in the case of incest, polygamy or polyamory?

Do you believe we are obligated to follow and submit to secular law? Obviously you believe we as Christians cannot alter the nature of secular law for the things we deem as good. I would suggest pornography is objectively evil and terrible for society, terrible for women, terrible for men and that by getting rid of it we might heal the sexual sickness of our society somewhat. What is your argument for tolerating and accepting pornography? Freedom? Freedom despite all the damage and harm pornography does? I ask this question because it seems to me we have totally different views on what the purpose of the law is for. I believe it is to help regulate society and orient us towards the moral good, as Saint Paul believed. Do you believe it exists to defend the liberty of degenerates?

Because if you are willing to defend pornography in society, we have radically different concepts of what the Christian role in society is. So i can understand why you are opposed to Christianity influencing society.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Alright, so you are of the position that pornography must be tolerated in society and accepted? This is your position as a Christian, that we cannot do anything to stop it and therefore would you encourage laws in society which offer protections for pornographers?

By the way, I never said it would make people holy. Do you believe we should have laws against murder or theft? What about laws which limit marriage to monogamous unions? Should we expand marriage to be allowed in the case of incest, polygamy or polyamory?

Do you believe we are obligated to follow and submit to secular law? Obviously you believe we as Christians cannot alter the nature of secular law for the things we deem as good. I would suggest pornography is objectively evil and terrible for society, terrible for women, terrible for men and that by getting rid of it we might heal the sexual sickness of our society somewhat. What is your argument for tolerating and accepting pornography? Freedom? Freedom despite all the damage and harm pornography does? I ask this question because it seems to me we have totally different views on what the purpose of the law is for. I believe it is to help regulate society and orient us towards the moral good, as Saint Paul believed. Do you believe it exists to defend the liberty of degenerates?

Because if you are willing to defend pornography in society, we have radically different concepts of what the Christian role in society is. So i can understand why you are opposed to Christianity influencing society.

Finally we agree on something.

We have entirely different views on the role of Christians in society and what Christianity means.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Finally we agree on something.

We have entirely different views on the role of Christians in society and what Christianity means.

We actually disagree. You are for pornography. I am against it. Do you think our Lord would have defended porn like you?

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

We actually disagree. You are for pornography. I am against it. Do you think our Lord would have defended porn like you?

Our Lord Jesus did defend pornography and prostitution . Jesus associated with individuals involved in activities such as prostitution and did not condemn them. He spent time with them, dined with them, and showed compassion rather than judgment.

The Pharisees and religious leaders were displeased with Jesus for showing compassion towards those considered sinners. They preferred a society governed strictly by law and order.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Our Lord Jesus did defend pornography and prostitution . Jesus associated with individuals involved in activities such as prostitution and did not condemn them. He spent time with them, dined with them, and showed compassion rather than judgment.

Interesting. Do you believe pornography and prostitution is intrinsically good? Also can you show me in the Bible where Jesus hung out with prostitutes in private regularly?

Do you reccomend young Christian men hang out with prostitutes? That we support pornstars by consuming their content?

The Pharisees and religious leaders were displeased with Jesus for showing compassion towards those considered sinners. They preferred a society governed strictly by law and order.

Do you believe the Church itself should be welcoming of pornographers and those who flout Christian sexual norms?

But if you want to stand on the side of pornographers, I'll let that stand for itself. You obviously believe it's good for society and as such I think you've departed from historic Christianity

 

[didactics]

Our Lord Jesus did defend pornography and prostitution . Jesus associated with individuals involved in activities such as prostitution and did not condemn them. He spent time with them, dined with them, and showed compassion rather than judgment.

The Pharisees and religious leaders were displeased with Jesus for showing compassion towards those considered sinners. They preferred a society governed strictly by law and order.

Something else to keep in mind is that Jesus also told her to go and sin no more (see Jn 8:11).

 

[Aaron112]

Christian doctrine and rational thought are often viewed as incompatible. According to the Gospels, God became human, was crucified, resurrected after three days, and thereby saved humanity. Do you find this to be an example of rational thinking?

"Quote by Martin Luther : “.............

Martin Luther — ‘Reason is a w++re, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but more frequently than not strugg... ... ... ..."

 

[Aaron112]

Something else to keep in mind is that Jesus also told her to go and sin no more (see Jn 8:11).

Doesn't Jesus tell everyone who wants to be healed this ? "Stop sinning"