Seventh-day Adventist Church is Christian - not a cult

[BobRyan]

For me to call SDA a cult is inappropriate but I do feel that word Sect is a fitting description.

My reasoning for this is that I have seen the gospel conveyed to great effect by members and this is what matters most. I am not SDA, I hope you don't mind my comment.

Paul says that Christianity was called a "sect" of Judaism.

So you make a good point.

But that could probably be said about all denominations in one sense or another.

 

[BobRyan]

What I do not understand is why people do things on the Sabbath that would cause others to have to work.

I agree with not going out to eat or going to a store on Sabbath since God's commandment actually says not to make people work for you on Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

Feeling that we had at least a little in common with them, we mentioned that we also kept the Sabbath as a day of rest. "Ah, that is interesting," replied the priest (or other official). "Tell me, if you go camping, will you light a fire to cook your food?" "Yes, we replied." "Well, then you aren't really keeping the Sabbath."

I agree that to the extent we can - we should be willing to have cereal for breakfast, sandwiches for lunch etc in a case where a lot of work would have to be done to have a meal.

But I also don't compare the old method of getting a fire going at the time of Israel - vs the flip of a switch today - as being the same thing.

I have thought about this incident many times, and I think it speaks to the heart of what bothers other Protestants about our Sabbath

I don't think it gets very close at all when it comes to why non-Sabbath keeping Christians object to keeping the Sabbath themselves.

From what I have seen...

1. Most of them don't care if you keep the Sabbath. You are free to do it if you like a far as most of them are concerned.
2. Most of them agree that Christ was raised on resurrection Sunday - just as we also affirm. Meaning that we ALL agree that Saturday is the 7th day Sabbath of the Bible in Jesus' day. Some may not have put 2+2 together on this point - but when you show them they seldom object to this fact either.

3. Most of them do not know that the "Baptist Confession of Faith" sectn 19, "The Westminster Confession of Faith" sectn 19, and also D.L. Moody , R.C. Sproul and many others affirm that all TEN of the Ten Commandments are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-33 and Heb 8. Those documents argue for editing the Sabbath commandment to point it to Sunday at some point after the cross.

4. Most people agree that they are keeping Sunday in memorial of Christ's resurrection and that this has so much greater importance than the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments - so that it just makes more sense to keep Sunday at least as a day for going to church.

Exactly WHAT are you doing? Are you trying to keep all the Mosaic regulations put up about the Sabbath?

That is a good point.

A common idea is that of all the Ten commandments - only the Sabbath commandment is ceremonial and is just for Jews , the rest is moral law for all of us.

No matter that Jesus said in Mark 2:27 that the Sabbath was made for mankind, not mankind made for the Sabbath.
And no matter that Is 66:23 says that in the New Earth - for all eternity after the cross - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship".
No matter that it is gentiles in the Synagogue in Acts 13 asking for more gospel preaching to be scheduled for them - "the next Sabbath" - it is not the Jews asking for that.

As an adult, I rely on Jesus stating that "the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

good point.

 

[Diamond72]

I agree with not going out to eat or going to a store on Sabbath since God's commandment actually says not to make people work for you on Sabbath.

They use to have blue laws where it was not legal to work on Sunday.

 

[BobRyan]

And that means that if I lets say go to Sunday and Saturday to church, is that wrong then I do that also Sunday? Does God really look about the day, so that means u never sing or worship or pray on Sunday? Coz that is from evil?

For a few years - I used to attend a Southern Baptist church next door to my home - every Sunday, but I have always gone to church on Sabbath as a Seventh-day Adventist.

The Bible does not say "do not go to church on week-day-1" and it is not say "do not pray or have worship on week-day-1". There is nothing wrong with going to church on Sunday.

But doing so - is not complying with the Sabbath commandment which is a separate issue.

 

[BobRyan]

They use to have blue laws where it was not legal to work on Sunday.

Yeah that is true.

Adventist eschatology predicts that all of that is coming back only with a twist to it not unlike what happened in Europe at one time.

 

[Semper-Fi]

The Bible does not say "do not go to church on week-day-1"

I thought the commandment to work 6 days a week ,
was just as much of a command as keeping the Sabbath day holy.

 

[BobRyan]

I thought the commandment to work 6 days a week ,
was just as much of a command as keeping the Sabbath day holy.

Many people go shopping and do other sorts of secular activity on days where they also spend an hour in church. All that is fine, if the day has not been "sanctified" by God - "set apart for holy use".

But even if someone says that in addition to observing the Bible Sabbath they wish to devote some other day for worship (as God also had people doing in Lev 23 for certain of the annual holy feast days), not a problem for those who want to be in line with God's Word in that regard.

But Gal 4 forbids observing pagan days, and God does not allow us to "not work on all days" since Paul said "if someone will not work, neither let him eat".

 

[rturner76]

For a few years - I used to attend a Southern Baptist church next door to my home - every Sunday, but I have always gone to church on Sabbath as a Seventh-day Adventist.

It kind of makes me wonder if the day of the week is deified even more than the diety that we are to worship. I completely understand why one would choose Saturday worship, however, I would not be likely to base my entire religion on a day and not God. In my personal opinion, it would make more sense to worship the God of all creation rather than a day of the week. The reason I say this is because the Old Testament that was built on laws and our ability to keep them rather than the New Testament which was built on the law of love which was not based on our ability to keep the OT law verbatim but built on the love ov law and grace. It's the same religion when one looks at the heart but the old law was based on one's performance in the law and the new was/is based on repentance and salvation through the sacrifice of the Messiah, So it makes me wonder if certain people do not trust in or believe in the law of repentance and the free gift of grace? It's a question that everyone must answer to St Paul at the "Pearly Gates" as so many people have described. Not sure if there is actually a pearly gate but I would assume there is some gate into heaven with a gatekeeper

May God bless you my learned friend

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

But Gal 4 forbids observing pagan days,

8 But then, indeed, having not known God, you were in servitude to those [that are] not by nature gods, 9 and now, having known God—and rather being known by God—how [do] you turn again to the weak and poor elements to which you desire anew to be in servitude? 10 You observe days, and months, and times, and years!
Galatians 4:8-10

Interestingly enough, the rebuke of verse 10 does not have limits on which days, months, times, and years are involved. The whole passage just as easily speaks to rebuke Hebrews, as it does others. Verse 9 describes rabbis, and priests of the Temple, and sages of the desert, as much it does all other voluntary bondages to unholy servitude.

It is interesting to note how this has played out. For instance, the very first Communion cup was a cup of the Law-given Festival of Passover, prescribed once per year. It was the particular cup of that festival for after the dining, according to Luke 22:20. And yet, this is not how His church has ever behaved, to my knowledge; thus far, by all reading and listening, I'll have to think that communion was rather different from the beginning. The abandonment of the Festival of Passover may have begun after that very first day. One wonders how soon the rest of the Law-prescribed festivals were abandoned. Perhaps, after the failure and scattering of the earliest church, things were not uniformitarianist, until the fear and death of Constantinism rose.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It kind of makes me wonder if the day of the week is deified even more than the diety that we are to worship. I completely understand why one would choose Saturday worship, however, I would not be likely to base my entire religion on a day and not God. In my personal opinion, it would make more sense to worship the God of all creation rather than a day of the week. The reason I say this is because the Old Testament that was built on laws and our ability to keep them rather than the New Testament which was built on the law of love which was not based on our ability to keep the OT law verbatim but built on the love ov law and grace. It's the same religion when one looks at the heart but the old law was based on one's performance in the law and the new was/is based on repentance and salvation through the sacrifice of the Messiah, So it makes me wonder if certain people do not trust in or believe in the law of repentance and the free gift of grace? It's a question that everyone must answer to St Paul at the "Pearly Gates" as so many people have described. Not sure if there is actually a pearly gate but I would assume there is some gate into heaven with a gatekeeper

May God bless you my learned friend

I know of no one who is worshipping a day, we worship the Creator, why we keep the Sabbath commandment, because our Creator told us to- He even said Remember so forgetting would not be a good idea if we are wanting to serve the one true God Exo 20:8-11. Keeping His Word comes with a lot of promises

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
John 8:31Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
John 15: 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

This issue is when we don't obey God and His commandments- who then are we serving and abiding in? If we are not abiding in Christ, we really are in trouble.

John 15: 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing

If we are abiding in Christ we would be following His example who also kept the commandments including the Sabbath commandment.

1 John 2: 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Why we are told to be doers of God's Word, not just hearers James 1:22

 

[KevinT]

I thought the commandment to work 6 days a week ,
was just as much of a command as keeping the Sabbath day holy.

This brings back memories....

When I was in high school, I attended an SDA boarding school. I worked on the maintenance crew and we would attend classes half the day and work half the day. My boss used to complain that we didn't work on Sunday -- saying I was worshiping both "God and the Pope", Ha! As a lazy student, I wasn't having any of it. I certainly wanted day without school work or maintenance work.

As an adult, I think we may be missing the mark when Sabbath is not set up to be an enjoyable day for kids. All that fussy dressing up, sitting and listening to organ music, then not being allowed to play sports etc. I think a day can be "holy to the Lord", and still be something a young man would look forward to.

Anyway, now that I am older and less energetic, I'm happy for a day to unwind after working through the week. And Sunday has become a house-cleaning day, so I am happy to have time to unwind on Sabbath.

KT

 

[Aaron112]

I thought the commandment to work 6 days a week ,
was just as much of a command as keeping the Sabbath day holy.

Yes. Simple, right? And also, instead of welfare - (within an assembly of followers of Jesus) > he that is not willing to work , don't feed him.

 

[YeshuaFan]

I agree that to the extent we can - we should be willing to have cereal for breakfast, sandwiches for lunch etc in a case where a lot of work would have to be done to have a meal.

But I also don't compare the old method of getting a fire going at the time of Israel - vs the flip of a switch today - as being the same thing.

I don't think it gets very close at all when it comes to why non-Sabbath keeping Christians object to keeping the Sabbath themselves.

From what I have seen...

1. Most of them don't care if you keep the Sabbath. You are free to do it if you like a far as most of them are concerned.
2. Most of them agree that Christ was raised on resurrection Sunday - just as we also affirm. Meaning that we ALL agree that Saturday is the 7th day Sabbath of the Bible in Jesus' day. Some may not have put 2+2 together on this point - but when you show them they seldom object to this fact either.

3. Most of them do not know that the "Baptist Confession of Faith" sectn 19, "The Westminster Confession of Faith" sectn 19, and also D.L. Moody , R.C. Sproul and many others affirm that all TEN of the Ten Commandments are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-33 and Heb 8. Those documents argue for editing the Sabbath commandment to point it to Sunday at some point after the cross.

4. Most people agree that they are keeping Sunday in memorial of Christ's resurrection and that this has so much greater importance than the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments - so that it just makes more sense to keep Sunday at least as a day for going to church.

That is a good point.

A common idea is that of all the Ten commandments - only the Sabbath commandment is ceremonial and is just for Jews , the rest is moral law for all of us.

No matter that Jesus said in Mark 2:27 that the Sabbath was made for mankind, not mankind made for the Sabbath.
And no matter that Is 66:23 says that in the New Earth - for all eternity after the cross - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship".
No matter that it is gentiles in the Synagogue in Acts 13 asking for more gospel preaching to be scheduled for them - "the next Sabbath" - it is not the Jews asking for that.

good point.

Sda is a Biblical Cult, in like fashion as the Mormons and JW, as all 3 claim to be the retored true church for today, all claim to have had inspired revelations from prophets and apostles, have extra biblical books from God they use, and all teach salvation by good works and efforts

 

[BobRyan]

Sda is a Biblical Cult,

stone age thinking.

Interesting that non-SDA scholars like Walter Martin in his epic book on cults "Kingdom of the Cults" made it very clear over 50 years ago that the SDA church is solidly Christian Orthodoxy.

in like fashion as the Mormons and JW, as all 3 claim to be the retored

Those two groups also included in the scope of Martin's book and found to be cults.

true church for today, all claim to have had inspired revelations from prophets and apostles

sounds like the NT church itself.

Have you read the New Testament??

, have extra biblical books from God they use

That's what the non-Christian Jews were saying about the Christians.

You seriously need to read more.

, and all teach salvation by good works and efforts

Some groups do that but not SDAs as even the well known non-SDA scholar - Walter Martin notes in his book.

You need to read more.

There is "A reason" that ChristianForums accepts the Adventist denomination as a Christian denomination.

You need to get out more - read. Choose facts over proof-by-pejorative, any old false-accusation-will-do falls far short of factual statement.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I think some SDA's carry a legalistic spirit.

I have however seen wonderful conversions through the ministry of some SDA folks.

Like all denominations it seems to be the usual mix of good and bad theology.

The extremes spoken by some SDA members are not followed by all. That is again the same for any denomination.

I therefore consider them a sect rather than a cult. Not all SDA's believe in the exclusivity of their church.

 

[YeshuaFan]

stone age thinking.

Interesting that non-SDA scholars like Walter Martin in his epic book on cults "Kingdom of the Cults" made it very clear over 50 years ago that the SDA church is solidly Christian Orthodoxy.

Those two groups also included in the scope of Martin's book and found to be cults.

sounds like the NT church itself.

Have you read the New Testament??

That's what the non-Christian Jews were saying about the Christians.

You seriously need to read more.

Some groups do that but not SDAs as even the well known non-SDA scholar - Walter Martin notes in his book.

You need to read more.

There is "A reason" that ChristianForums accepts the Adventist denomination as a Christian denomination.

You need to get out more - read. Choose facts over proof-by-pejorative, any old false-accusation-will-do falls far short of factual statement.

Walter martin was hoodwinked by certain leaders of Sda, as the top leadership never affirmed what he was taught, and the Sda has revoked back that main textbook used to try to convince Martin about Sda doctrines.
Sda has their female prophetess books and views placed on par with sacred scriptures, aas affirmed her as being as inspired as OT prophet/NT apostle, makes Sabbath keeping legal requirement to salvation, has that damnable Investigative Judgement theology that even got Desmond Ford ran out of Sda teaching levels, so Sda has extra biblical authority, legalism, deny Pauline Justification, so yes, is a cult

 

[YeshuaFan]

I think some SDA's carry a legalistic spirit.

I have however seen wonderful conversions through the ministry of some SDA folks.

Like all denominations it seems to be the usual mix of good and bad theology.

The extremes spoken by some SDA members are not followed by all. That is again the same for any denomination.

I therefore consider them a sect rather than a cult. Not all SDA's believe in the exclusivity of their church.

Except their official doctrines are indeed that of a biblical cult, as deny Pauline Justification, grant Ellen White inspired status, makes sabbath keeping salvation requirement , and Investigative Judgment nullifies the Cross of Christ
No doubt are saved in their ranks, same way are saved Catholics, but both churches teach another gospel, and are false churches

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Except their official doctrines are indeed that of a biblical cult, as deny Pauline Justification, grant Ellen White inspired status, makes sabbath keeping salvation requirement , and Investigative Judgment nullifies the Cross of Christ
No doubt are saved in their ranks, same way are saved Catholics, but both churches teach another gospel, and are false churches

Can one be saved by worshipping other gods, using His name in vain, bowing to false idols committing murder, stealing, coveting or breaking the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30 without repenting and turning and forsaking our sins Pro 28:13, not according to Jesus Mat 5:19-20 Mat 7:23 We are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30 we are saved from sin Mat 1:21

I do not know why man tries to isolate the 4th commandment from the rest of God's personal written and spoken Testimony, Exo 31:18 because God didn't. Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28

While we are not saved by law-keeping, we will be judged by it why we see the Ten Commandments at the last Trumpet because God's personal Testimony Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13 that is kept under His mercy seat that I personally would not want to remove one jot or tittle on what God covers, because it is what we will be judged by -God's version, Rev 11:18-19 James 2:11-12 Ecc 12:13-14 Rev 22:14-15. While er are judged by God's law, but we are saved by grace through faith. Keeping God's law is not a means to salvation, its a consequences of love, faith and salvation in Jesus Rev 14:12 Exo 20:6 John 14:15 1 John 5:3 Rev 22:14 - we are told we need to have the faith of Jesus Rev 14:12 which is how did Jesus live, what did He teach and living by it Mat 4:4 which this faith and love reconciles man back to God Rev 22:14

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Except their official doctrines are indeed that of a biblical cult, as deny Pauline Justification, grant Ellen White inspired status, makes sabbath keeping salvation requirement , and Investigative Judgment nullifies the Cross of Christ
No doubt are saved in their ranks, same way are saved Catholics, but both churches teach another gospel, and are false churches

Regarding Investigative Judgement is this an Adventist doctrine or a Bible doctrine?


Gen. 3:8,9,11,13,24---“the voice of the LORD God” investigates Adam & Eve; “where”, “Who”, “hast”, “what”

Gen. 4:9-12---God investigates Cain about Abel; “where”Gen. 5:22-24;

Heb. 11:5---God investigates Enoch; “had this testimony, that he pleased God”

Gen. 6:3,5,12---God investigates the world; “saw…every imagination”, “looked upon”

Gen. 11:5-6---God comes down at the Tower of babel; “to see”

Gen. 18:20-21---God comes down to Sodom & Gomorrah; “see … know”

Exo. 16:4,28; Num. 15:32-36; 1 Cor. 10:1-12---God tests Israel about His commandments, the 7th day the Sabbath; “How long”, “what should be done”

Lev. 16:1-34, 23:26-32; Exo. 28:15,29-30---God investigates Israel, Day of Atonement; “breast plate of judgment”

1 Kin. 3:16-28---King Solomon (Type of Christ, Prince of peace) investigates from his throne over two women and a living & dead child; “judgment”

Ezr. 2:59,61-63; Neh. 7:61,63-65---In Ezra 2, after coming out of Babylon, the priests had to be investigated to make sure they were on the genealogical records

Job 1:8, 2:3---God & man (Job) are investigated; “Hast thou considered”

Eze. 8:1-18, 9:1-11---God investigates two groups inside the city

Dan. 7:9-10,13,22(b), 8:13-14,26, 12:1,12---The Investigative Judgment; “every one that shall be found written in the book”

Zec. 3:1-3---God investigates the high priest Joshua; “clothed”

Mal. 3:3,5---God searches the metals for impurities; refiner & purifier

Luk. 13:7---Jesus investigates for fruit; “I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none”

Mat. 18:21-35---The King investigates; “a certain king, which would take account of his servants”

Mat. 22:11---The King investigates; “the king came in to see the guests, he saw”

Mar. 11:13---Jesus investigates, “seeing … afar off”

Rom. 2:13-16---“In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”

2 Cor. 5:10---“we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ”

Heb. 9:27---“it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment”

1 Pet. 4:5---Investigating the dead; “give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead”

Jud. 1:15---In order, “To execute judgment upon all”, an investigation takes place first

Rev. 3:10, 17:12---“the hour (time) of temptation (testing)”; investigating the living

Rev. 3:14---“Laodicea” (Judgment of the people)

Rev. 11:1-2---Investigating the church; “measure the Temple (God’s people)”, “worship”

Rev. 14:6-13---“the hour of his judgment is come”

Is the Investigative Judgement Scriptural?​

Hiram Edson and certain other members of the Adventist movement were guided into the belief that the event predicted by Daniel 8:14 was not the return of Christ, but rather Christ's entrance into the Most Holy Place of the heavenly sanctuary. Adventists came to believe that the cleansing of the...

www.christianforums.com