Seventh-day Adventist Church is Christian - not a cult

[BobRyan]

For me to call SDA a cult is inappropriate but I do feel that word Sect is a fitting description.

My reasoning for this is that I have seen the gospel conveyed to great effect by members and this is what matters most. I am not SDA, I hope you don't mind my comment.

Paul says that Christianity was called a "sect" of Judaism.

So you make a good point.

But that could probably be said about all denominations in one sense or another.

 

[BobRyan]

What I do not understand is why people do things on the Sabbath that would cause others to have to work.

I agree with not going out to eat or going to a store on Sabbath since God's commandment actually says not to make people work for you on Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

Feeling that we had at least a little in common with them, we mentioned that we also kept the Sabbath as a day of rest. "Ah, that is interesting," replied the priest (or other official). "Tell me, if you go camping, will you light a fire to cook your food?" "Yes, we replied." "Well, then you aren't really keeping the Sabbath."

I agree that to the extent we can - we should be willing to have cereal for breakfast, sandwiches for lunch etc in a case where a lot of work would have to be done to have a meal.

But I also don't compare the old method of getting a fire going at the time of Israel - vs the flip of a switch today - as being the same thing.

I have thought about this incident many times, and I think it speaks to the heart of what bothers other Protestants about our Sabbath

I don't think it gets very close at all when it comes to why non-Sabbath keeping Christians object to keeping the Sabbath themselves.

From what I have seen...

1. Most of them don't care if you keep the Sabbath. You are free to do it if you like a far as most of them are concerned.
2. Most of them agree that Christ was raised on resurrection Sunday - just as we also affirm. Meaning that we ALL agree that Saturday is the 7th day Sabbath of the Bible in Jesus' day. Some may not have put 2+2 together on this point - but when you show them they seldom object to this fact either.

3. Most of them do not know that the "Baptist Confession of Faith" sectn 19, "The Westminster Confession of Faith" sectn 19, and also D.L. Moody , R.C. Sproul and many others affirm that all TEN of the Ten Commandments are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-33 and Heb 8. Those documents argue for editing the Sabbath commandment to point it to Sunday at some point after the cross.

4. Most people agree that they are keeping Sunday in memorial of Christ's resurrection and that this has so much greater importance than the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments - so that it just makes more sense to keep Sunday at least as a day for going to church.

Exactly WHAT are you doing? Are you trying to keep all the Mosaic regulations put up about the Sabbath?

That is a good point.

A common idea is that of all the Ten commandments - only the Sabbath commandment is ceremonial and is just for Jews , the rest is moral law for all of us.

No matter that Jesus said in Mark 2:27 that the Sabbath was made for mankind, not mankind made for the Sabbath.
And no matter that Is 66:23 says that in the New Earth - for all eternity after the cross - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship".
No matter that it is gentiles in the Synagogue in Acts 13 asking for more gospel preaching to be scheduled for them - "the next Sabbath" - it is not the Jews asking for that.

As an adult, I rely on Jesus stating that "the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

good point.

 

[Diamond72]

I agree with not going out to eat or going to a store on Sabbath since God's commandment actually says not to make people work for you on Sabbath.

They use to have blue laws where it was not legal to work on Sunday.

 

[BobRyan]

And that means that if I lets say go to Sunday and Saturday to church, is that wrong then I do that also Sunday? Does God really look about the day, so that means u never sing or worship or pray on Sunday? Coz that is from evil?

For a few years - I used to attend a Southern Baptist church next door to my home - every Sunday, but I have always gone to church on Sabbath as a Seventh-day Adventist.

The Bible does not say "do not go to church on week-day-1" and it is not say "do not pray or have worship on week-day-1". There is nothing wrong with going to church on Sunday.

But doing so - is not complying with the Sabbath commandment which is a separate issue.

 

[BobRyan]

They use to have blue laws where it was not legal to work on Sunday.

Yeah that is true.

Adventist eschatology predicts that all of that is coming back only with a twist to it not unlike what happened in Europe at one time.

 

[Semper-Fi]

The Bible does not say "do not go to church on week-day-1"

I thought the commandment to work 6 days a week ,
was just as much of a command as keeping the Sabbath day holy.

 

[BobRyan]

I thought the commandment to work 6 days a week ,
was just as much of a command as keeping the Sabbath day holy.

Many people go shopping and do other sorts of secular activity on days where they also spend an hour in church. All that is fine, if the day has not been "sanctified" by God - "set apart for holy use".

But even if someone says that in addition to observing the Bible Sabbath they wish to devote some other day for worship (as God also had people doing in Lev 23 for certain of the annual holy feast days), not a problem for those who want to be in line with God's Word in that regard.

But Gal 4 forbids observing pagan days, and God does not allow us to "not work on all days" since Paul said "if someone will not work, neither let him eat".

 

[rturner76]

For a few years - I used to attend a Southern Baptist church next door to my home - every Sunday, but I have always gone to church on Sabbath as a Seventh-day Adventist.

It kind of makes me wonder if the day of the week is deified even more than the diety that we are to worship. I completely understand why one would choose Saturday worship, however, I would not be likely to base my entire religion on a day and not God. In my personal opinion, it would make more sense to worship the God of all creation rather than a day of the week. The reason I say this is because the Old Testament that was built on laws and our ability to keep them rather than the New Testament which was built on the law of love which was not based on our ability to keep the OT law verbatim but built on the love ov law and grace. It's the same religion when one looks at the heart but the old law was based on one's performance in the law and the new was/is based on repentance and salvation through the sacrifice of the Messiah, So it makes me wonder if certain people do not trust in or believe in the law of repentance and the free gift of grace? It's a question that everyone must answer to St Paul at the "Pearly Gates" as so many people have described. Not sure if there is actually a pearly gate but I would assume there is some gate into heaven with a gatekeeper

May God bless you my learned friend

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

But Gal 4 forbids observing pagan days,

8 But then, indeed, having not known God, you were in servitude to those [that are] not by nature gods, 9 and now, having known God—and rather being known by God—how [do] you turn again to the weak and poor elements to which you desire anew to be in servitude? 10 You observe days, and months, and times, and years!
Galatians 4:8-10

Interestingly enough, the rebuke of verse 10 does not have limits on which days, months, times, and years are involved. The whole passage just as easily speaks to rebuke Hebrews, as it does others. Verse 9 describes rabbis, and priests of the Temple, and sages of the desert, as much it does all other voluntary bondages to unholy servitude.

It is interesting to note how this has played out. For instance, the very first Communion cup was a cup of the Law-given Festival of Passover, prescribed once per year. It was the particular cup of that festival for after the dining, according to Luke 22:20. And yet, this is not how His church has ever behaved, to my knowledge; thus far, by all reading and listening, I'll have to think that communion was rather different from the beginning. The abandonment of the Festival of Passover may have begun after that very first day. One wonders how soon the rest of the Law-prescribed festivals were abandoned. Perhaps, after the failure and scattering of the earliest church, things were not uniformitarianist, until the fear and death of Constantinism rose.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It kind of makes me wonder if the day of the week is deified even more than the diety that we are to worship. I completely understand why one would choose Saturday worship, however, I would not be likely to base my entire religion on a day and not God. In my personal opinion, it would make more sense to worship the God of all creation rather than a day of the week. The reason I say this is because the Old Testament that was built on laws and our ability to keep them rather than the New Testament which was built on the law of love which was not based on our ability to keep the OT law verbatim but built on the love ov law and grace. It's the same religion when one looks at the heart but the old law was based on one's performance in the law and the new was/is based on repentance and salvation through the sacrifice of the Messiah, So it makes me wonder if certain people do not trust in or believe in the law of repentance and the free gift of grace? It's a question that everyone must answer to St Paul at the "Pearly Gates" as so many people have described. Not sure if there is actually a pearly gate but I would assume there is some gate into heaven with a gatekeeper

May God bless you my learned friend

I know of no one who is worshipping a day, we worship the Creator, why we keep the Sabbath commandment, because our Creator told us to- He even said Remember so forgetting would not be a good idea if we are wanting to serve the one true God Exo 20:8-11. Keeping His Word comes with a lot of promises

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
John 8:31Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
John 15: 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

This issue is when we don't obey God and His commandments- who then are we serving and abiding in? If we are not abiding in Christ, we really are in trouble.

John 15: 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing

If we are abiding in Christ we would be following His example who also kept the commandments including the Sabbath commandment.

1 John 2: 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Why we are told to be doers of God's Word, not just hearers James 1:22

 

[KevinT]

I thought the commandment to work 6 days a week ,
was just as much of a command as keeping the Sabbath day holy.

This brings back memories....

When I was in high school, I attended an SDA boarding school. I worked on the maintenance crew and we would attend classes half the day and work half the day. My boss used to complain that we didn't work on Sunday -- saying I was worshiping both "God and the Pope", Ha! As a lazy student, I wasn't having any of it. I certainly wanted day without school work or maintenance work.

As an adult, I think we may be missing the mark when Sabbath is not set up to be an enjoyable day for kids. All that fussy dressing up, sitting and listening to organ music, then not being allowed to play sports etc. I think a day can be "holy to the Lord", and still be something a young man would look forward to.

Anyway, now that I am older and less energetic, I'm happy for a day to unwind after working through the week. And Sunday has become a house-cleaning day, so I am happy to have time to unwind on Sabbath.

KT

 

[Aaron112]

I thought the commandment to work 6 days a week ,
was just as much of a command as keeping the Sabbath day holy.

Yes. Simple, right? And also, instead of welfare - (within an assembly of followers of Jesus) > he that is not willing to work , don't feed him.