Seventh-day Adventist Church is Christian - not a cult

[BobRyan]

The internet has some web sites discussing this topic so - I would like to explain why independent reviewers such as Walter Martin in his book "Kingdom of the Cults" argued as a non-SDA scholar - that the Adventist church is NOT a cult.

1. He admits in his book that doctrinal differences do exist between Christian denominations of every kind - but those doctrinal differences do not suffice to call them a cult.

2. Most often when attacks are made against Adventists they settle for finding that one denomination differs with another on some point instead of making a case that the difference amounts to forfeiting the Christian faith entirely.

3. Martin condemns the idea of taking some obscure unpublished statement, or a one-off statement from this or that person, or x-church-member as the main foundation of substance for the claim that a given group is not Christian, or does indeed hold to some odd belief, or is a cult. Since it is true that dissenters.. and one-off accusers are common in all denominations.

4. Martin argues that one must take the published denominational doctrinal statements - endorsed as such - for the group's agreed upon statement. He also accepts a formal request and response to specific questions - sent to the denomination itself - as a reasonable claim for what the denomination actually teaches/believes.

This is helpful since it avoids the empty round-and-round that can be had from straw-man arguments.

================================

Adventists do teach that;

1. IN the OT "The Angel of the Lord" is very often (in fact always) a Christophany -- it is YHWH - God Himself. Adventists make this same claim about Michael the Archangel - that it is He who is also God the Son, who is called THE Angel of the Lord.

So then one may differ with Adventists and make their own claim that Michael is not "The Angel of the Lord" etc - but that would be "another Michael" and not the one that Adventist speak of since Adventist most certainly to not argue that God the son is a created being , it not YHWH etc.

We also note that in Gen 18 - God the Son and two angels appear to Abraham as "three men walking". But that does not make them humans.

2. Adventists teach the pre-advent Investigative judgment found in Dan 7 where -- the entire time that judgment goes on in God's throne room courtoom in heaven -- saints are being persecuted. They teach that as Dan 7 says - the judgment does not start until after the fall of the fourth beast - pagan Roman empire.

So then one may view the details on Dan 7 differently but that is merely a difference between groups.

3. Adventists teach the 1 Cor 12 and Eph 4 idea of spiritual gifts continuing - until the point that Eph 4 identifies.

4. Adventists teach that prophets speak with prophetic authority and that includes people like Agabus in the book of Acts who writes no scripture at all - but still gets messages for the church - given to him by God.

5. Adventists teach that the Ten Commandments were never down-sized to nine and that the Sabbath commandment has never been deleted or edited by God to point to something other than the 7th day of creation week being remembered. We also teach the Is 66:23 doctrine that for all eternity after the cross in the New Heaven and New Earth - that "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship". (Since the Sabbath was MADE for mankind Mark 2:27 when it was made, Gen 2:3-4)


============= That is a small sample - I will add more for those who think it should be included

My point is that "difference are fine" and they do exist - but all the examples above are things that Dr Walter Martin knew already about the Adventist church and still he affirmed that they do not constitute an example of a cult.

=======================

This thread is not intended to address the impossibly large scope of "all things that I agree or differ with regarding the teachings of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination".


IT is also not about "so-and-so person in the 1800's believed this in an unpublished letter".

I am just trying to keep this to the subject of difference that do not constitute a cult - vs ones that do.

 

[BobRyan]

There are beliefs about "sleep" that you find in John 11, and 1 Thess 4:13-18 that I will expand on showing that affirming such Bible statements does not make a group "a cult".

In Matt 22 Christ argues for the proof of a future resurrection of the dead in His discussion with the Sadducees - where that proof relies on Christ's teaching that "God is not the god of the dead" so that in speaking with Moses in Ex 3 - God is relying on the Rom 4:17(NKJV) principle that God "calls those things that are not as though they are" - in His claim affirming the future resurrection saying "I AM the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob".

 

[rturner76]

The first listed definition of "cult" in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary is:
1) a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious )see superiors sense 2). Also, it's a body of adherents.

I disagree that the Adventist Church meets the secular or religious definition of "cult" In the religious sense, I have seen it defined similarly to the dictionary definition. However, the religious definition emphasizes that there may be only a small group of followers.

While I don't agree with everything the Adventents teach, I do not believe it is unorthodox in the sense that most doctrine is based on Augustian theology like 90% of all Churches. Otherwise, I see nothing unbiblical about their theology aside from the emphasis on legalism. I won't get into everything I'm afraid I have to disagree with as this is not the forum to do so.

I just wanted to stat that even as what many Adventists consider a corrupt doctrine in the Catholic Church, The Adventists are not a simple group of people following a man in an isolated commune. They are as mainstream a church ad Baptists, Methodists, Church of Christ, so on and so on.

I did some research into their charitable programs and found out that the Adventists had the largest amount of charity going straight to those who need it with the lowest amount of money spent on administration. This fact alone signals to me that they are actively doing Christ's work assisting in the needs of the poor and supplying access to education tho the poorest communities in the world. It's not quite my cup of tea but I am one Catholic they would vouch for their mission to teach people to be obedient to Christ commandments and looking after the needs of the poor while taking in the lowest amount of cash into the church than any other denomination

Apart from some minor theological differences to my beliefs, I say this denomination is completely legit.

The on;y question is if there are any differences in what the founders taught and what the Bible itself teaches? I haven't studied enough to make that determination. If indeed people in the Adventist Church would be willing to follow the writings of Ellen White when they are in conflict with the proper interpretation of scripture. If that were happening, it would qualify as "cultish" but still not a straight up cult

 

[Freth]

The Definition of Cult

Google's definition of the word cult.

---

noun: cult; plural noun: cults

A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

• a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister
• a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing

---

The main definition, any Christian denomination can be called a cult.
The two bullet points are highly subjective.

So let's address the bullet points vs Seventh-day Adventism.

Bullet point 1:

• A relatively small group of people. 20 million isn't a small group of people.
• Having beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister. Biblically sound beliefs and practices aren't strange or sinister.

Bullet point 2:

• Misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing. No Christian would say that love of God the Father and the Son is misplaced or excessive. The only argument that can be made is in the case of Ellen G. White, but the position doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Ask any Adventist to back their beliefs and we'll do it with scripture alone.

My Personal Experience

I was born and raised into Seventh-day Adventism. I grew up in the church. In my lifetime I've attended a number of denominational and non-denominational churches. Each of them different in various ways. I can honestly say that, aside from doctrinal differences, the Seventh-day Adventist church has so much in common with other Protestant churches. So much so that I felt at home in many of them.

In my experience, I've found that it is former Seventh-day Adventists that had a strict upbringing that leave the church and turn around and call it a cult, because of their experiences that were largely their parents being what they consider to be unreasonably overly protective. This is not unique to the Seventh-day Adventist church. There are many Christians who have this very same experience.

I grew up in a strict Adventist household, and I held no ill will toward my mother or my church. I consider all of my experiences positive ones that kept me from a lot of sinful and harmful things in my adult life.

The Seventh-day Adventist church is no more a cult than any other Protestant church.

 

[KevinT]

I also wondered about the definition of cult. American Heritage Dictionary gives this:

1. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
2. The followers of such a religion or sect.
3. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.

I feel this definition describes a religion that is more extreme than the "a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious" from the Merriam-Webster dictionary quoted above. It adds the elements of the authoritarian central guidance. I always think of Jim Jones when I think of a cult. Disclosure: I am SDA, so of course I would point to an extreme example of cult.

KT

 

[BobRyan]

The first listed definition of "cult" in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary is:
1) a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious )see superiors sense 2). Also, it's a body of adherents.

I disagree that the Adventist Church meets the secular or religious definition of "cult" In the religious sense, I have seen it defined similarly to the dictionary definition.

interesting that a lot of times the way "cult" is defined --- it would make Christianity itself "a cult of Judaism". When in fact it was more a reform movement in Judaism where they were "in the temple daily" according to Acts at the time of Pentecost.

Acts 2:46 And continuing daily with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,

While I don't agree with everything the Adventents teach, I do not believe it is unorthodox

That seems to have been Walter Martin's conclusion as well.

I just wanted to stat that even as what many Adventists consider a corrupt doctrine in the Catholic Church, The Adventists are not a simple group of people following a man in an isolated commune.

True - and to a degree one finds that each denomination in Christianity finds at least one teaching in other denominations that they find to be incorrect to one degree or another.

They are as mainstream a church ad Baptists, Methodists, Church of Christ, so on and so on.

true.

I did some research into their charitable programs and found out that the Adventists had the largest amount of charity going straight to those who need it with the lowest amount of money spent on administration. This fact alone signals to me that they are actively doing Christ's work

That is true. We have the second largest world wide Christian school and health-care system as well.

Apart from some minor theological differences to my beliefs, I say this denomination is completely legit.

The on;y question is if there are any differences in what the founders taught and what the Bible itself teaches?

In fact we should ask that question in general in all cases no matter the denomination. What do they teach today? and what did they teach at their founding etc. A good question to ask.

If indeed people in the Adventist Church would be willing to follow the writings of Ellen White when they are in conflict with the proper interpretation of scripture.

1 John 4:1-5 tells us not to do any such thing. Always hold the teaching - up to review against scripture no matter if the one has the claim of being a pastor, evangelist or prophet. We have some pretty strong statements affirming that policy for the denomination.

 

[rturner76]

1 John 4:1-5 tells us not to do any such thing. Always hold the teaching - up to review against scripture no matter if the one has the claim of being a pastor, evangelist or prophet. We have some pretty strong statements affirming that policy for the denomination.

Also, I didn't mean to make any implication that Ellen Wright does have any writings that contradict the Bible. I meanto just say that it is a way to tell if one is following a cult leader or a weel sorted and agreed upon denomination the is enjoying major growth. In my gut I feel that non-Godly churches tend to shrink into separate cells, each with their own conflicting interpretations but the truth of God's word grows like a field of grean, feeding the masses the truth rather than a small group of people who focus on the tares and snares of unapproved doctrine. Charasmatic speakers are able to trick even the very elect.

Matthew 24:23-25
New American Bible (Revised Edition)
23 If anyone says to you then, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 False messiahs and false prophets will arise, and they will perform signs and wonders so great as to deceive, if that were possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told it to you beforehand.

It is one of the greatest tragedies that spiritual; man has been faced with. What is it when it seems through trickery that one has been healed or one has been freed of addiction, gambling, sex addiction or whatever only to find that one has been roped into a false doctrine like Grace alone which is ok when described in the right context? I saw a very popular preacher who fills up stadiums and sells massive numbers of books, CDs, dvd.s and web connections. The problem was not completely against Christian belief but he was pushing the notion that if one gets saved, obedience or keeping the faith is surplus to requirements. It was all about how we are saved by accepting Christ alone and there is no need to learn, grow, or practice obedience to the best of your ability. That is a part of our salvation story but only one part.

The only reason I bring this up is that it is a church with no denomination or counsel of elders. It was one man's vision of all interpretations of scripture. That is a warning sign to me. When there is no counsel, no board of directors, but one man's vision. I think a situation like that breeds the cult mentality.

I'm reminded of Jim Jones who went way off ancient theology and got his church to follow HIM more than God. He moved all those people to South America, too everything on their bank accounts and all of their trial estate. He killed a journalist and a politician because they were going to report the inhumane living conditions. he fed the poison Kool-Aid to all men, women, and even little babies. A few escaped into the jungleand survived but were haunted for the rest of their lives. To make a long story longer, they is what we need councils and people who will test teachings by the scripture rather than follow one man's dream. Like it says in the Bible he healed people. spoke in tongues, fed the children of the community but it was for his glory, not God's. That is the true essence of a cult. I'm sure you already know all of this but I'm posting for everyone who thinks that their one little home church has the fullness of truth from one man. Be cautious y'all.​

 

[rturner76]

interesting that a lot of times the way "cult" is defined --- it would make Christianity itself "a cult of Judaism". When in fact it was more a reform movement in Judaism where they were "in the temple daily" according to Acts at the time of Pentecost.

I think you are right here. It was Peter that went to the Jews, and that was called something like a cult by high ranking Jewish leaders. When Paul cam on the scene and baptized Pagans. Christianity became it's oun religian rather than a cult or a reformation of Judaism.

 

[AV1611VET]

What is the Mark of the Beast?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What is the Mark of the Beast?

It will be similar to the decrees that were in the Prophetic book of Daniel that prohibited God's people from keeping one of God's commandments. The mark of the beast is about worship Rev 13, Rev 14 . Jesus said false worship is obeying the commandments of man over the commandments of God quoting from the Ten Commandments Mat 15:3-14 true worship is obeying God Rev 14:12 the way He wrote and He spoke Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 and no one has authority over God to change anything given from God. God said He would not alter His Words. Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18-19 but sadly someone changed God's times and laws Dan 7:25 that most have followed.

The mark of the beast will be the Sunday law when we no longer have the freedom of choice to worship God and keep His commandments, just like Daniel's 3 friends who were forced to bow to the golden idol breaking one of God's commandments or face death.

People have said the Sunday law is farfetched, but its closer than people think. I am going to make a thread on it based on current events on this topic.

 

[AV1611VET]

The mark of the beast will be the Sunday law when we no longer have the freedom of choice to worship God and keep His commandments, just like Daniel's 3 friends who were forced to bow to the golden idol breaking one of God's commandments or face death.

So if I go to church on Sunday, is that taking the Mark on my right hand, or taking the Mark on my forehead?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So if I go to church on Sunday, is that taking the Mark on my right hand, or taking the Mark on my forehead?

Church on Sunday is typically a symptom of a bigger issue. In scripture we are told whoever we obey is who we serve. Rom 6:16. Should we obey God on His Authority as He commanded us to Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy, the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God. Exo 20:8-11 The holy day of the Lord Isa 58:13 The Sabbath points us back to Creation Exo 20:11 so we always remember who is our Creator and Redeemer - the only God who has the power to create heaven and earth Exo 20:11, the only God who has the power to sanctify Eze 20:12 and the same God of Judgement Rev 14:7 as God changes not.

We were warned God’s times and laws would be changed Dan 7:25, not based on God’s Authority but on man and the RCC takes credit for this change and says if we keep Sunday as our day of worship we are obeying a commandment of the Catholic church

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

If Protestants would follow the Bible, they would worship God on the Sabbath Day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church.
—Albert Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the Cardinal, in a letter dated February 10, 1920.

Keeping Sunday is a mark of their authority over scriptures and essentially over God’s Authority. Which is what the mark of the beast is about. On whose authority do we worship. Do we obey God and serve Him or obey Rome, even if we don’t think we are. We are told the whole world is deceived, which means the majority. God’s commandment-keeping people are just a remnant Rev 12:17KJV

Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.
—C. F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons, in answer to a letter regarding the change of the Sabbath, November 11, 1895.

Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God... The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.'
—Catholic Record, September 1, 1923.

Right now no one has the mark of the beast, not until there becomes a decree where Sunday rest is mandatory and keeping the Sabbath is outlawed. The Sunday law is coming. It initially will not start off as a persecuting power and will seem like a good thing- good for the environment etc, but it will turn into a persecuting power against those who want to keep God’s commandments based on the way God commanded on His Authority. Not changing a dot or tittle Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18-19 because no one is above our Lord and Savior.

Regarding whether we receive the mark in the hand or the forehead will be based on if we know God’s commandments and go along with the Sunday law anyway or we are deceived. Both scenarios end up with the mark. Much like Eve was deceived but Adam wasn’t. Same result. Those who don‘t go along with it won’t be able to buy or sell and will eventually have to flee.

Right now there is time to repent and turn from our false teachings that were handed down by the mother church Rev 18:4 and turn to God and worship Him in Truth and Spirit. John 4:23-24 All of God’s commandments are Truth Psa 119:151 and righteous Psa 119:172 even the commandment that God said Remember that the world forgot. His righteousness is everlasting Psa 119:142 so is His Sabbath Isa 56:1-6 Isa 66:22-23

It’s no coincidence that the Sabbath is a sign that we are God’s people and He is our God. Eze 20:20. It’s a matter of decision on who we serve. God or man. Jesus tells us which path to follow Mat 15:3-14

God bless.

 

[Diamond72]

So if I go to church on Sunday, is that taking the Mark on my right hand, or taking the Mark on my forehead?

Going to church on Sunday is a common practice for many Christians and is not associated with the “Mark of the Beast.” The idea of the mark is generally interpreted as a symbolic representation of loyalty to a particular power or system, rather than a specific action like attending church.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus never told us to follow the popular crowd. Mat 7:13-14

The mark of the beast is about worship. There is no scripture to keep Sunday as a day of rest or keep holy, but there is for Sabbath-keeping written personally by God- no Greater Authority! If one is keeping Sunday over obeying God's commandments, they have someone else as their authority. We can't serve two masters. Mat 6:24

The problem:

Rev 14: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

The solution:
Rev 14:12 Here is the [g]patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
What faith did Jesus have? Did He keep the commandments and the Sabbath? If we abide in Him we ought to walk like He did 1 John 2:3-6

 

[KevinT]

... until there becomes a decree where Sunday rest is mandatory and keeping the Sabbath is outlawed. Like Greece recently adopted.

I was curious about the Greece law. Hadn't heard of it before. I found an article from NPR that talks about it.

The new law applies to companies that operate continuously around the clock seven days a week, and to companies that adopt heavy shift work to cope with an unforeseen increased workload.

Looking further, I think this is the official site from the government. From there, they have a pdf dated 27 Sept 2023. In there, I find

• Possibility of work on the 6th day of the week is introduced for 24/7 employers or business with rotating shifts and implementing a five days working week system (excluding hotels and restaurants). In this regard, the employees’ work on the 6th days cannot exceed 8 hours and the daily wages will be increased by 40%
• Employees of non 24/7 companies or businesses which implement a five days working week system (from Monday to Saturday for 24 hours on the basis of rotating shifts), excluding hotels and restaurants, can work on the 6th day subject to explicitly provided conditions (exceptional cases (significantly increased work load), notification of the exceptional cases with the employment authorities before commencement of work, registration of the additional work with the Information System “ERGANI II” before commencement of work, compliance with working hours regulations etc.).
• The list of employers whose employees can work on Sunday and during public holidays is expanded to include new businesses (e.g. food production businesses)

So I take that this law is implemented in a context of workers rights. Just like a company in the USA can not hire workers for $1/hr and require them to work 100 hrs/week, it seems that before companies in Greece were not allowed to employ workers for more than 5 days a week. This law is saying that now they can. To my understanding, this has been true in the USA for a long time. Many of the local factories in my town operate 24/7.

It is interesting that they seem to count Monday as the 1st day, Saturday as the 6th day, and Sunday as the 7th day.

But I see nothing in this law that mandates a Sunday rest, other than perhaps that companies are apparently not allowed to hire employees on Sunday (I am assuming this part, I didn't see it explicitly stated in the document.)

I can see that this law might make persons wanting to work on Sunday but not Saturday have a more difficult time finding employment.

KT

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I was curious about the Greece law. Hadn't heard of it before. I found an article from NPR that talks about it.



Looking further, I think this is the official site from the government. From there, they have a pdf dated 27 Sept 2023. In there, I find



So I take that this law is implemented in a context of workers rights. Just like a company in the USA can not hire workers for $1/hr and require them to work 100 hrs/week, it seems that before companies in Greece were not allowed to employ workers for more than 5 days a week. This law is saying that now they can. To my understanding, this has been true in the USA for a long time. Many of the local factories in my town operate 24/7.

It is interesting that they seem to count Monday as the 1st day, Saturday as the 6th day, and Sunday as the 7th day.

But I see nothing in this law that mandates a Sunday rest, other than perhaps that companies are apparently not allowed to hire employees on Sunday (I am assuming this part, I didn't see it explicitly stated in the document.)

I can see that this law might make persons wanting to work on Sunday but not Saturday have a more difficult time finding employment.

KT

Thanks. It's possible I was listening to an old video based on this (below), I'm not sure what happened to it and should have verified. Regardless if its enforced now or not, I know there is lots of talk about enforcing Sunday rest across the nations now. There is a tread coming on this soon with lots of videos etc.

Greece must introduce a six-day working week, or lose its bailout money, Greece’s creditors said, according to a letter leaked to the Guardian and published September 4. This demand means Greeks would have to work Saturday and rest on Sunday as they’re forced to conform to the teachings of the Catholic and Orthodox churches, regardless of their personal beliefs.
The Guardian reported that the letter “orders the government to extend the working week into the weekend.” It was sent last week to Greece’s finance and labor ministries. An excerpt from the letter published by the Guardian called on the government to “increase the number of maximum workdays to six days per week for all sectors.”
The letter is from the “troika”—Greece’s three main creditors who oversee its bailout program: the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund. They also called for Greece to take several other steps to make working hours more flexible and to cut labor market regulation.
Their demand for a six-day week would mean that workers would be pushed to work on Saturday, not Sunday. Greek law already forbids working on Sunday. It states: “Employees are entitled to a minimum continuous period of rest of at least 24 hours per week, including Sunday as a rule, depending on the labor law provisions in force for each category of employees,” according to the European Commission’s website (emphasis added throughout).
If the working week is extended to six days, this law will almost certainly remain in force. Employers could soon be demanding a six-day week from most Greek workers. If someone tries to stick to his religious principles by working on Sunday and resting on Saturday, it would be illegal.
Catholic bishops have been working to introduce similar laws across the EU, robbing Europe’s citizens of the choice of which day they rest. They have tried several times to change Europe’s Working Time Directive, which says that all European workers must have at least one rest day a week, to say that all EU workers must take that rest day on Sunday.
They continued this push in July, when European religious leaders held their annual meeting with the presidents of EU institutions. Monsignor Gianni Ambrosio, vice president of the Commission of the Bishops’ Conferences of the European Community, called for the EU mandated Sunday worship to encourage stable families and help combat Europe’s demographic crisis. “Especially for the family, for the spiritual life of its members and for human relations, both inside the family and with relatives and friends, the common Sunday rest is of fundamental importance,” he said.
In March, the Catholic Church and trade unions across Europe joined up in what the church called a “holy alliance” to call for governments to enforce Sunday observance.
Herbert W. Armstrong warned for years that a European power would enforce Sunday worship. Anyone that refused “would not be able to earn a living, to earn a wage or salary, or to engage himself in business,” he wrote.
That is exactly what is happening in Greece!
The Bible is full of proof that Christ and the early Church kept the Sabbath on Saturday, not Sunday. But if you live in Greece and want to follow Christ’s example—refusing Sunday observance and keeping Saturday—you could soon be out of a job! This is exactly what the Bible prophesied.
We don’t know, yet, if Greece will submit to this six-day week. It may be able to negotiate a way out of it. It could quit the euro. Or it may be thrown out. But the economic crisis will get worse. And now we know that the EU sees the six-day week as a solution.
The Bible prophesies that Europe will rise from the crisis as the global economic superpower. Perhaps one of the ways it will do this is by introducing a six-day workweek across the Continent.
This enforced Sunday observance won’t end with Greece. Watch this trend very closely. The Bible clearly reveals that Sunday observance is in fact the mark of the beast, as prophesied in Revelation.
For more information on this vital subject, read our free booklets Who or What Is the Prophetic Beast? and Which Day Is the Christian Sabbath?

 

[KevinT]

Thanks. It's possible I was listening to an old video based on this (below), I'm not sure what happened to it and should have verified. Regardless if its enforced now or not, I know there is lots of talk about enforcing Sunday rest across the nations now. There is a tread coming on this soon with lots of videos etc.

Greece must introduce a six-day working week, or lose its bailout money, Greece’s creditors said, according to a letter leaked to the Guardian ...

When you quote a block of text, if you would take a moment to highlight it, and the select the "quotes" icon at the top, it would put it as a separate block. I went and looked at the Guardian article, and the first part of your text seem to be quoted from that. But then there was different text, and I couldn't tell if it was your writing, or if you were quoting from something else.

Yes, Greece has gotten itself into financial trouble and its creditors want them all working like busy bees to hurry up and pay them back. And it is possible that they will institute a mandatory 6 day work week, which includes working on Saturday. All these things are possible. But there is a big difference between an interest group pushing for something and it being finalized into law.

We know that as time rolls on that conditions on the earth will worsen. God's angels are holding back the winds of strife until they are finally told by God that it is time to stop. We should also do our part to keep our world working well. So I agree that it is good to emphasize that people should be given religious freedom to worship as they believe. But we should be careful to not "cry wolf" where there is not actually a wolf, so that others become numb to the warnings.

Best wishes,

KT

 

[AV1611VET]

Going to church on Sunday is a common practice for many Christians and is not associated with the “Mark of the Beast.” The idea of the mark is generally interpreted as a symbolic representation of loyalty to a particular power or system, rather than a specific action like attending church.

I have a feeling Ellen G White would disagree.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

When you quote a block of text, if you would take a moment to highlight it, and the select the "quotes" icon at the top, it would put it as a separate block. I went and looked at the Guardian article, and the first part of your text seem to be quoted from that. But then there was different text, and I couldn't tell if it was your writing, or if you were quoting from something else.

Yes, Greece has gotten itself into financial trouble and its creditors want them all working like busy bees to hurry up and pay them back. And it is possible that they will institute a mandatory 6 day work week, which includes working on Saturday. All these things are possible. But there is a big difference between an interest group pushing for something and it being finalized into law.

We know that as time rolls on that conditions on the earth will worsen. God's angels are holding back the winds of strife until they are finally told by God that it is time to stop. We should also do our part to keep our world working well. So I agree that it is good to emphasize that people should be given religious freedom to worship as they believe. But we should be careful to not "cry wolf" where there is not actually a wolf, so that others become numb to the warnings.

Best wishes,

KT

I guess it depends what you consider "numb to the warning" Noah preached 120 years and only 8 believed and were saved. Would it have made a difference if he started once the first rain drop was felt. I believe the early warning is all part of faith. Believing what we can't see.

I believe there will definitely be a Sunday law, like I said I may have misunderstood about Greece, thanks for pointing that out, I have never stated anyone has implemented the Sunday law (before the post in this thread- now corrected), its already written in the books with the blue law, its just a matter of when they will be implemented. With the current climate, things like Project 2025 and of what other leaders are saying, I believe its probably sooner than we think, but agree everything is in God's time.

 

[Diamond72]

I have a feeling Ellen G White would disagree.

I am not sure who Ellen is but I think this forum is for those that agree with their beliefs. A place for Seventh-day Adventist who accept the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church