Seeking God with all your heart?

[bethdinsmore]

God desires that all would be saved, and He draws all men to himself....
I believe "seeking God with all your heart" just means sincerely seeking. We usually know when we are sincere. If we are deceiving ourselves, God can show us that. He's certainly shown me plenty of times.

aloha in Jesus

 

[Adstar]

Oh. I think we operate with somewhat different understandings of "the Body of Christ".
By that, I meant the Christians, their Christian conduct, their discipline, their being in accordance with biblical teachings, such practical things.
But, not that one would rely on their being perfect or demand perfection of conduct. One can, soon enough, discern their consistency, their honesty -- and that is a good thing, that is the evidence under B that I meant.

Valid point.

The only way to really determine of someone is a member of the Body Of Christ is to see if they agree with the will of God. Actually being able to do the will of God 100% of the time is impossible. We can not be righteous in the flesh but we can be in agreement with God in Spirit. Actually we cannot really read the minds of other people so in the end we cannot even be sure if they agree with the will of God in Spirit. This brings us back to the Word, all we can do is find out the will of God and ask ourselves do we agree with God.


You are a blessing LittleLion


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

God desires that all would be saved, and He draws all men to himself....
I believe "seeking God with all your heart" just means sincerely seeking. We usually know when we are sincere. If we are deceiving ourselves, God can show us that. He's certainly shown me plenty of times.

aloha in Jesus

I agree

It also pays to pray to God to revel to us more about our motivations. God knows us better than we do.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Edial]

God desires that all would be saved, and He draws all men to himself....
I believe "seeking God with all your heart" just means sincerely seeking. We usually know when we are sincere. If we are deceiving ourselves, God can show us that. He's certainly shown me plenty of times.

aloha in Jesus

. Simple. Isn't it?
Ed

 

[LittleLion]

Ed,

Didn't you accepted the possibility that you are intellectually proud?
Weren't you the one that was "determined" to expose the hermeneutical frauds of the Christians?
I based my "assumptions" on your own statements. You need quotes?
And, aren't you the one now that is assuming?

There is a misunderstanding. The lightness with which I write and my determination to understand (and possibly refute some claims) are not in alignment with my true state. When I say I feel like drowning, in the light of this lightness and determination, that drowning must seem very petty and nothing worth of much thought. One could say, "If you were in real trouble, then you wouldn't be so up and about and determined for discussion!"

But it is not so. All my life, I have been taught, demanded, to speak about myself only in a certain way, to say I am fine even when I am not, to say I am happy even though my heart is breaking. Always very politely lie about my state and present myself as some happy someone that I never was.
I am simply not used to say how I truly feel when the feelings are something deemed bad or negative. I have been raised to put on a shield of a cheerful and investigating intelligence whenever I am unhappy and sad. Like a Barbie doll, always happy and smiling. Have you ever tried to live the life of a doll? Do you know what that is like?
And I don't remember when I was last happy.

So this is what you get to see. I'm sorry it is that way, but it is that way. I am working on it, but for the time being, things are as they are.


"Living a lie" means more than just willfully refusing to follow God. You may write off, in a few lines, the feelings of deep worthlessness to be the workings of Satan. But that doesn't help.

Look, there are people that take compliments and good wishes and better themselves in the eyes of God.
I will not compliment nor encourage you, since you use your mind in the wrong direction.
I said what it was concerning your discovery, no more no less than it deserves. Sorry about that.

I wasn't looking for compliments. Only for a comment by someone more knowledgeable.

CS Lewis used his intellect to examine the evidences in order to remove the barriers that intellectually impede one to coming to Christ.

And this is exactly what I am doing as well. Only you refuse to give me the credit for it.

In this case the use of the intellect is for the opposite reason.
Intellectual pride is the difference between the contructive and destructive usages of an intellect.

You know what message you are sending out with this? That I must walk with your pace, as you direct, or nothing. I am crying as I am writing this. The exact thing you are saying above, I have had to fight against my whole life.
Love must be earned.

You are going at a strawman, that doll, and you are mistaking it for me.

I sent "tons" of Scriptures via other threads and many PMs.
I also asked for comments on them at least once - there were none.

What was I to say? Give you crossreferences?
I've barely ever discussed scripture with anyone, I don't know what there is to say, or how scripture is to be commented. It is usually clear enough and needs no intepretation.

And the only Scriptures that are presented from the other end are the ones that might give an impression that one is to defend itself against God.

I was defending myself against you, can't you see that?

I can't tell whether what you are offering me is the right thing or not; you might be convinced it is. But then I have a number of other people who also offer me the right thing and who are convinced theirs is the right one. Put yourself in my shoes.
With my meagre knowledge, I am unable to decide which religion to choose. So the only option I have left is to find a neutral way out of this quagmire. This may include a lot of philosophizing and identifying intellectual and other barriers -- but so it is. It is not my fault that there are so many religions and so many theologies, but it is my problem.

The statements that were made were based on "listening" to her statements. They were not made on assumtions (not listening).

You did not know all there is needed to know to get the whole picture.

 

[LittleLion]

Lauralin,

This conversation seems far too prone to philosophy and theology
outside of
living experience, which is a dangerous thing indeed. There's something you
might want to remember about Christianity: it needs to be thought out, and
examined, and believed, but it also must be lived. Lived daily, within a
community, and involving a certain amount of loyalty.

Of course. But before one can devote oneself to something, one must
understand at least some of it. I don't have the trust in other people and
what they tell me to just go and do as they say.

Have you considered that the origonal meaning of "theologan" was
primarily "one who prays?"
Thinking, questioning, philosophy, and whatnot are indeed good, but must not
be everything.

Oh, I wish this mental tirade were over! I don't like discussing, and I am
doing this here like a job.
Also, there are rather few women discussing these things, and I am sometimes
uncomfortable around all these men. They can be so clumsy.

Somewhat related to the OP, I would echo the suggestion of others
here, and
follow another bit of Bible advice, where the Lord says "be still and know
that I am God." And also suggest that the Bible does not necessarily support
the kind of stressed-out reading you appear to be applying to it.

Hm. This is an interesting comment. I think I should remember what I read,
at least some of it, and the lecture must be taken seriously. And yes, for
now, "stressed out" and "seriously" tend to appear together when it comes to
me.

The thing is, I belong to a church (evangelical), where logic and
thought is
not exactly well respected, and balance is not the norm. I tended to be
bothered by this, and end up screaming "how can this be? They say we have
eternal security, if only we are sincere enough. How on earth am I to
possibly know if I was sincere!?!?!" And have been repeatedly assaulted by
such trite phrases as "it's not a religion, it's a relationship," and "you
need to give God the whole enchelada" and the like. The answer to the first
dreaded truism may have some bearing on following God with "all your heart."

That and other phrases that ask us to know our own sincerity highlight
something important; things that we must consider so as not to despair or
become cold legalists. Nevertheless, at a certain point one must ask if the
question is really helping them toward God, or preoccupying them with
themselves; if they are turning inward, when they really need to be turning
outward to God. Because the problem is, being too worried with weather we
are actually sincere, or seeking with all out heart, or whatever, is that
the continual asking actually defeats it's own purpose, so that we become so
wrapped up in our own motives that we forget the origonal intent of turning
away from ourselves and our failings, and towards a God who can in the end
heal us of those failings.

Wonderfully said. I copied it into my notes! I'm glad you wrote this.

The Church does not ask for complete purity
of heart, but rather for a constant turning towards God in all things, for
repentance, and for commitment.

That is good. As an outsider, I think I am very burdened with the idea of
perfectionism -- in the sense that the demands set in the Bible seem to be
too hard to live up to. And I don't have the overall knowledge to put all
the teachings into perspective. I remember a few years back, the most
frustrating thing about God was that a "meek heart and broken spirit" were
demanded -- and I never knew how one can ever be meek enough and how one's
spirit could ever be broken enough to actually count as meek and broken.

I know that you're not a Christian, so I'll have to suppose you won't be
belonging to any church, but even as an inquirer, I would reccomend you go
somethimes, preferably one that's liturgical, or at the very least does not
presume to judge salvation by sincerity at the time of conversion.

The only option I have here for going to church is to go to masses to a Catholic church during the week. I've been a couple of times. It's a bit odd, since I don't know any of the songs or anything. So I just sit in the back, and get up and sit back down whenever all others do. But it is interesting -- I can at least listen to what is being said with much less pressure, than I do reading posts here, or when reading the Bible for myself.

I'll be praying for you!

Thank you!

 

[Cottontop3000]

Littlelion,

Leave here now and never return. These people are deluded.

 

[Sojourner<><]

did anyone else notice that the last post was #66?

just one of those weird moments I guess.

 

[Cottontop3000]

What, does 66 now have something to do with 666? Even more deluded. By the way, I think the post you were referring to was #67.

 

[Edial]

Ed,





There is a misunderstanding. The lightness with which I write and my determination to understand (and possibly refute some claims) are not in alignment with my true state. When I say I feel like drowning, in the light of this lightness and determination, that drowning must seem very petty and nothing worth of much thought. One could say, "If you were in real trouble, then you wouldn't be so up and about and determined for discussion!".

Oh no.
I believe that you are indeed in trouble. I stated that before. It is just there is another part in you that stands in a way.

But it is not so. All my life, I have been taught, demanded, to speak about myself only in a certain way, to say I am fine even when I am not, to say I am happy even though my heart is breaking. Always very politely lie about my state and present myself as some happy someone that I never was.

It is not uncommon at all. I also was taught to behave in a similar manner. People do not share naturally.
However, once a person realizes that, he becomes responsible for such actions. Blaming others no longer counts.

I am simply not used to say how I truly feel when the feelings are something deemed bad or negative. I have been raised to put on a shield of a cheerful and investigating intelligence whenever I am unhappy and sad. Like a Barbie doll, always happy and smiling. Have you ever tried to live the life of a doll? Do you know what that is like?
And I don't remember when I was last happy.

You apparently had time to evaluate your condition. If you are aware of it, blaiming it on someone else is not an answer.
Also, there are many people that are not happy. There are illnesses, family matters, violence, defeat, emptiness.

So this is what you get to see. I'm sorry it is that way, but it is that way. I am working on it, but for the time being, things are as they are..

It is not good enough that it is that way.
If you are aware of who you are and knowingly pretending of being someone else, it is called deceiving.
It is not the soft notes that are impressive in a conversation, but the soft steps in the right direction.

"Living a lie" means more than just willfully refusing to follow God. You may write off, in a few lines, the feelings of deep worthlessness to be the workings of Satan. But that doesn't help...

How can it help?
You do not want to give up your only "baby blanket", protection.
You are used to "living a lie". It is confortable. It is easy.
Now, why would anyone want to give it up outside of a condition of coming to Christ? One would need to give it up once one approaches him. That's repentance. Can't fool him. But outside of Him, why give it up?

I wasn't looking for compliments. Only for a comment by someone more knowledgeable.

And there was a comment. And that comment recognized that "discovery" as something that is designed to direct that person into the wrong direction, since it was richly peppered with proper "seasoning".
Therefore, my comment however, was to discourage the discovery and its process, since the descovery in itself was actually simple, but with proper encouragement it would have mushroomed into a "jump off the cliff intellectually" factor.

CS Lewis used his intellect to examine the evidences in order to remove the barriers that intellectually impede one to coming to Christ.

And this is exactly what I am doing as well. Only you refuse to give me the credit for it..

I do not agree that this is what you are doing.
That is why I answered this -

In this case the use of the intellect is for the opposite reason.
Intellectual pride is the difference between the contructive and destructive usages of an intellect.

You know what message you are sending out with this? That I must walk with your pace, as you direct, or nothing...

Why assume once again?
From what I see you also do not agree with any of the Christians that you speak in a number of threads that I know.

I am crying as I am writing this. The exact thing you are saying above, I have had to fight against my whole life.....

Intellectual pride is of tremendous appeal, but it is short-lived, since the intellect will eventually diminish due to the destructive influence of the pride on a person and only an unabridged pride will remain - unpure and spiritual that glories it its own individuality and viciousness that come with it in the end.
You see, pride uses things (like intellect, beauty, world champions) then kills them, so it remains by itself, unabridged and in all of it unholy glory that will claim the heavens itself so to feed its stomach.

Love must be earned....

When I sign "Love, Ed" on occasions, it is meant to assure the reader that the writing is based on intentions as described in the 1Corinthians 13.
In no way it is implied that any type of love is expected in return.

You are going at a strawman, that doll, and you are mistaking it for me..

Since that strawman was build on your statements, it is inevitably you in some degree, whether you were truthful by saying that or not.
You see, the person eventually becomes who he "claims" to be.

What was I to say? Give you crossreferences?..

No. That answer was to Nightfire who stated that I did not send you Scriptural references, but only "my philosophy". I told him that I did.

I've barely ever discussed scripture with anyone, I don't know what there is to say, or how scripture is to be commented. It is usually clear enough and needs no intepretation..

On the flip side of it you are commenting and opening threads on 2 Scriptures yourself "Seeking God with you heart" and "Being a Sinner".
Furthermore you are challenging Christians in their theology and hermeneutics.

Do you see the problem here?

You see, it is exposed now.

I was defending myself against you, can't you see that?

I can't tell whether what you are offering me is the right thing or not; you might be convinced it is. But then I have a number of other people who also offer me the right thing and who are convinced theirs is the right one. Put yourself in my shoes.
With my meagre knowledge, I am unable to decide which religion to choose. .

What you are saying here is very, very good.

So the only option I have left is to find a neutral way out of this quagmire. This may include a lot of philosophizing and identifying intellectual and other barriers -- but so it is. It is not my fault that there are so many religions and so many theologies, but it is my problem..

This not your only option, but what you are saying is still very, very good.

You did not know all there is needed to know to get the whole picture.

One does not need to know all in order to know the whole picture.
The same is with Christ.
You know enough to come to him and ask him to come into your life.
You are aware of your barriers and it will be a easy for you to repent.
Up to now, many of the barriers are fallen already - you recognized them (or confessed, in a way ).

You are doing good.

You can wrap it up whenever you wish with any of the believers that you "disagree with" on this thread.

Love,
Ed