Security of Salvation Verses

[nephilimiyr]

You've sinned with your body.
You've sinned with your soul.
You've never sinned with your spirit, because it's impossible, and sin in your soul/body doesn't phase your spirit, because it's sealed away by Christs' blood.

Simple concept. You're spirit is saved forever.

Nice work Ashenk!

 

[Catholic Dude]

I agree with ImSoB here. These passages are not read in the proper context. For one you are assuming that there is a moment in time when you are "saved" and after that point are free to roam. The Bible teaches that salvation is a life long process, and that if you do the wrong things you will not go to Heaven.

 

[Lynn73]

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
(2Co 5:10)

This judgment is for the believers' works, not the believer himself. Christ already took the punishment of our sins on Himself. The believer is saved but the reward he may get is determined by the kind of works he's done. Salvation is a free gift, rewards are earned.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

It's clear that the works are being tried here, not the person. The foundation of knowing Christ has already been laid, they are saved. What they've built on that foundation is what's being tried here.

Oh and in case someone jumps in and says the reference to being saved by fire refers to purgatory because I know people use this text to try and prove that:

Yet so as through fire ...

has the meaning of "something resembling" an escape from fire, as in "snatching them out of the fire" (Jude 1:23); and it is certain that this phrase has absolutely nothing in it of actual fire. It is a figure of speech, prompted possibly by Paul's reference to the judgment and the fire of that day, but not to be identified as the same thing. The doctrine of purgatory is not merely unscriptural and anti-scriptural, there being not one word in the entire scriptures to support such a monstrous thesis; but it is effectively refuted in a single question: "If any church believes in such a thing, and in their own power, through prayer, to deliver people from it; why do they not pray all people out of it immediately for sweet charity's sake?"

from
http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/bcc/view.cgi?book=1co&chapter=003

Also http://www.biblicist.org/bible/purge.shtml

 

[FaithAlone]

Amen! Exactly what I was going to say

 

[Egghead]

Well this is fun folks. My tv is broken so i can't watch Wimbledon but hey who needs tennis when i can watch scripture tossing.

Heres a logical question though. Can a child become "unborn"?

Why do you all use MANS logic to argue a GODS ways?

a SPIRITUAL birth is NOT a PHYSICAL birth.

 

[Egghead]

This judgment is for the believers' works, not the believer himself.

Is that what it says or what YOU are saying it says?

Christ already took the punishment of our sins on Himself.

In other words, we are free to sin at will, IF we so choose to do so and God is powerless to do anything about it since we mouthed out a prayer of repentance 25 years ago?

Sorry, but thats not what Hebrews 6 and 10 show.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

It's clear that the works are being tried here, not the person.

No, that passage is about TEACHERS building on the wrong foundation and THAT teaching being tested. NOTHING more.
The ''works'' there is their teaching and that is very clear with this two lines...

"and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor."

"But let each one take heed how he builds on it."
Its funny as all get out to see some people be so danged persistant about CONTEXT, then ignore context when it suits them.

Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord has given to each one?

I planted, Apollos watered, but God gives the increase.

So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.

Now he who plants and he who waters are one,
and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

For we are coworkers with God; you are God's field, you are God's building.
According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise architect I have laid the foundation, but another builds on it.

But let each one take heed how he builds on it.

For no other foundation can anyone lay, other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one's work shall be made manifest; for the Day shall reveal it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall test each one's work, as to what sort it is.

If anyone's work which he has built remains, he shall receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, but so as through fire.
(1Co 3:5-15)

It is about a mans teaching and it being tested, not a thing more.

If a man teaches off a bit, his teaching will be tested.
If it is on the wrong foundation, HE will be saved, but only as one escaping thru the flames (kind of like barely escaping a burning house)

1Co 3:15 - If any man's work shall be burnt,.... If any minister's doctrine he has preached shall be destroyed and disappear, shall be disapproved of, and rejected by the churches, not being able, to bear the light and heat of the fire of God's word:

he shall suffer loss; of all his labour and pains he has been at, in collecting together such trifling, useless, and inconsistent things; and of all that glory and popular applause he might expect from men, on account of them, and which was the snare that drew him into such a way of preaching:

but he himself shall be saved; with an everlasting salvation; not by his ministerial labours, much less by his wood, hay, and stubble, which will be all burnt up; but through his being, notwithstanding all the imperfections of his ministry, upon the foundation Christ:

yet so as by fire; with much difficulty, and will be scarcely saved; see 1Pe_4:17 with great danger, loss, and shame; as a man that is burnt out of house and home, he escapes himself with his own life, but loses all about him: so the Syriac version reads it, àéê ãîï ðåøà, "as out of the fire": see Zec_3:2. Or the sense is, that he shall be tried by the fire of the word, and convinced by the light of it of the errors, irregularities, and inconsistencies of his ministry; either in his time of life and health, or on a death bed; and shall have all his wood, hay, and stubble burnt up, for nothing of this kind shall he carry with him in his judgment to heaven; only the gold, silver, and precious stones; and will find that the latter doctrines, and not the former, will only support him in the views of death and eternity.
-Gill

 

[Egghead]

You've sinned with your body.
You've sinned with your soul.
You've never sinned with your spirit, because it's impossible, and sin in your soul/body doesn't phase your spirit, because it's sealed away by Christs' blood.

Simple concept. You're spirit is saved forever.

Do you actually have any scripture to back this theory?

 

[Egghead]

The Scriptures are a lie?

No they arent.
But as you see, you are only putting out scripture in a manner to agree with you.

Your partially quoted 1 Corin. chap 3 passage is not about works in general but ONLY about teachers and building on the wrong foundation.
it has nothing to do with OSAS doctrine

 

[FaithAlone]

I would still like to see some comments on more of the verses from the first post. And once again becoming a Christian has never given us a license to sin. If you'll read the last verses in the OP you'll see that. We are not supposed to use our freedom as a covering for evil, but the fact that it's possible to use our freedom as a covering for evil shows that even when a saved person does evil things they are still free. But should we sin so that grace may abound? May it never be, but that grace still abounds if we do sin. If we truly love the Lord we will keep His commandments. If you say that you love the Lord and don't keep His commandments then you don't really love the Lord. What about the verses about God's gifts and calling being irrevocable? What about "He that began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus"? What about being sealed by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption? What do those verses mean if not that we're saved forever?

 

[zaire]

Can a Believer Lose His/Her Salvation?

Yes if they become an unbeliever.

 

[FaithAlone]

Yes if they become an unbeliever.

I understand that people disagree with me but I still haven't seen many responses to the verses in the OP. How do you interpret those verses?

If we can lose our salvation then it is us that keeps us saved and not Christ. A couple of the verses in the OP say that we are kept by Christ.

What does it mean to be sanctified?

What does it mean to be sealed by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption?

What does it mean to be hidden in Christ?

What does it mean when Christ says that NOTHING can snatch us out of His hand?

What about when Christ says that He will lose nothing but raise us up?

Please deal with the original verses so that I can see more where you're coming from.

 

[searle29678]

If we can lose our salvation then it is us that keeps us saved and not Christ.

Interesting point...

 

[Lynn73]

Is that what it says or what YOU are saying it says?


In other words, we are free to sin at will, IF we so choose to do so and God is powerless to do anything about it since we mouthed out a prayer of repentance 25 years ago?

Sorry, but thats not what Hebrews 6 and 10 show.



No, that passage is about TEACHERS building on the wrong foundation and THAT teaching being tested. NOTHING more.
The ''works'' there is their teaching and that is very clear with this two lines...

[/color]"and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor."

"But let each one take heed how he builds on it."
Its funny as all get out to see some people be so danged persistant about CONTEXT, then ignore context when it suits them.


It is about a mans teaching and it being tested, not a thing more.

If a man teaches off a bit, his teaching will be tested.
If it is on the wrong foundation, HE will be saved, but only as one escaping thru the flames (kind of like barely escaping a burning house)

Sorry, I have to disagree. The passage clearly says that it's the works that are being tried, it's not "my interpretation", it's what it says. Bringing that old line out gets tiresome. ANd it's not just about teachers, its the judgment of all believer's works. I didn't say a thing about being able to sin and do whatever you want just because you're saved forever. God will deal with you if you try it. And if you belong to Him, you have some desire to please Him. Either it's Christ alone that saveds and keeps or we help save ourselves. The Bible says that Christ will lose nothing that belongs to Him. We don't lose our salvation if we fall into sin, I can attest to that. God will deal with us as with children and we will be disciplined up to and including death.

1 Corinthians 5:1-6

1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged F14 already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

There's enought Scriptural evidence, imho, that we don't lose eternal life once we've been born again and belong to Christ.

P.S. Since the foundation is laid by Christ you can't be on the wrong foundation and be saved. Salvation in Christ is the foundation. What's built upon it is what we do after we're saved.

 

[Egghead]

Sorry, I have to disagree. The passage clearly says that it's the works that are being tried, it's not "my interpretation", it's what it says.

Im sorry
Its just that I highlighted PAULS words to show you the whole context of that passage and you seem to be saying ''I dont care, it says what *I* say it says "

What is CLEARLY shown in that passage is the the ''works'' being spoken of is a mans teaching, his ''foundation'' that he builds upon.

Anyone reading it can clearly see what it is refering to.

ANd it's not just about teachers,

Thanks for publically proving my point.
the CONTEXT shows that it IS only about teachers and their teaching/building upon the wrong foundation and that teaching being ''tested''.

It is critical that we show everyone reading that some people refuse to accept CONTEXT when it defies their doctrines.

We don't lose our salvation if we fall into sin, I can attest to that

You cannot ''lose'' it.
You can, by your own will, cast it away by openly apostating yourself as the Hebrews were doing when they rejected what they had previously accepted (the free gift)

what kills me is this.
Some of you say ''you cant be unborn'' but then would seem to reject the idea that a person CAN throw a ''free gift'' back into the face of the giver.

You can attest to nothing that isnt presented in scripture.
Saying you cannot apostate yourself doesnt make it scriptural.

 

[FaithAlone]

What does it mean to be sanctified?

What does it mean to be sealed by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption?

What does it mean to be hidden in Christ?

What does it mean when Christ says that NOTHING can snatch us out of His hand?

What about when Christ says that He will lose nothing but raise us up?

Why hasn't anyone answered these questions? It would really help me understand more about where you're coming from if you would.

 

[Egghead]

Why hasn't anyone answered these questions? It would really help me understand more about where you're coming from if you would.

because they are loaded questions that do not present the WHOLE context of salvation.

The answers dont show the WHOLE picture, only that side YOU wish us to see.

 

[Lynn73]

Sorry, but I'm not seeing what you say is in those Scriptures. You're not making a lot of sense. There's nothing in that passage about teachers. And please don't put words in my mouth, thank you. I think it's you who is reading something into the text that isn't there and making it say something else. I think we'll just have to disagree.

 

[Egghead]

Sorry, I have to disagree. The passage clearly says that it's the works that are being tried, it's not "my interpretation", it's what it says.

Lets look again and see what PAUL says he is speaking about.

Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos,
but ministers through whom you believed,
as the Lord has given to each one?

I planted, Apollos watered, but God gives the increase.

So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.

Now he who plants and he who waters are one,
and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

For we are coworkers with God; you are God's field, you are God's building.
According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise architect
I have laid the foundation, but another builds on it.

But let each one take heed how he builds on it.

For no other foundation can anyone lay, other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one's work shall be made manifest; for the Day shall reveal it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall test each one's work, as to what sort it is.

If anyone's work which he has built remains, he shall receive a reward.
If anyone's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, but so as through fire.
(1Co 3:5-15)

Now if anyone builds on this foundation...each one's work shall be made manifest....for the Day shall reveal it, because it shall be revealed by fire

 

[Egghead]

Sorry, but I'm not seeing what you say is in those Scriptures

Of course not

. You're not making a lot of sense. There's nothing in that passage about teachers.

Little vote here everyone.
Who sees ''teaching/ministry/doctrine in this passage?

Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos,
but ministers through whom you believed,
as the Lord has given to each one?

I planted, Apollos watered, but God gives the increase.

So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.

Now he who plants and he who waters are one,
and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

For we are coworkers with God; you are God's field, you are God's building.
According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise architect
I have laid the foundation, but another builds on it.

But let each one take heed how he builds on it.

For no other foundation can anyone lay, other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one's work shall be made manifest; for the Day shall reveal it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall test each one's work, as to what sort it is.

If anyone's work which he has built remains, he shall receive a reward.
If anyone's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, but so as through fire.
(1Co 3:5-15)

I think it's you who is reading something into the text that isn't there and making it say something else. I think we'll just have to disagree.

Hardly.
It says what it says.
It shows nothing more than men being accountable for their teachings/doctrines.

 

[FaithAlone]

because they are loaded questions that do not present the WHOLE context of salvation.

The answers dont show the WHOLE picture, only that side YOU wish us to see.

I don't see how it could be a loaded question. If you answer it the way you believe then how is that only going for the side I want to see? You may ask me as many loaded questions that you want. If the answers to my questions point toward security of salvation then maybe you should look into it more. If not then you will be helping me see your side of the view. So you don't even want to try?