Schism in Churches (1 Corinthians 1:10, 12:24-26 and Romans 12:4-8)

[AlexB23]

Hello folks. Today we will be analyzing the schism of churches, which has become prevalent in modern society.

Date​	May 25, 2024 | Breakdown of the Machine​
Verse​	1 Corinthians 1:10,12-13 (NIV): "I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. What I mean is this: One of you says, ‘I follow Paul’; another, ‘I follow Apollos’; another, ‘I follow Cephas’; still another, ‘I follow Christ.’ Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?" 1 Corinthians 12:24b-26 (NIV): "But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it." Romans 12:4-8 (NIV): "For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully."​
Explanation​	These three passages from the Bible emphasize the importance of unity and unity in diversity within the body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:10,12-13 admonishes the Corinthian church to have unity in their beliefs and actions, and warns against divisions that can arise from following different leaders or teachers. Paul asks if Christ is divided and emphasizes that they were all baptized in the name of Christ, not in the name of a particular teacher or leader. ​ 1 Corinthians 12:24b-26 further emphasizes the need for unity in the body of Christ, as God has put all the parts together with equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers, and if one part is honored, every part rejoices. This passage emphasizes the interconnectedness of all members of the body of Christ and the importance of working together and supporting one another, just as a machine has multiple parts which work in unison to perform a task. Romans 12:4-8 builds on this theme by emphasizing the diversity of gifts and functions within the body of Christ. Paul encourages the Roman church to use their gifts for the benefit of the whole body and to work together in unity. These passages relate to division in Christianity throughout history, including the Schism of 1054 AD between the Eastern and Western Churches, the Protestant Reformation in 1517 AD, and the prevalence of over 30,000 denominations today. These divisions have often arisen from differences in beliefs, practices, and cultural or historical contexts, leading to fragmentation and a lack of unity within the body of Christ. For instance, in 2022, the Methodist Church broke up, as one side wanted to follow their own individuality instead of the Bible, while the other side wanted to keep traditions. However, it is important to note that not all divisions are equal or justified. Some divisions may be rooted in doctrinal or theological differences that are significant and cannot be easily reconciled, while others may be the result of cultural or historical factors that could potentially be overcome with dialogue, understanding, and mutual respect.
Societal Relevance​	As Christians in the modern world, we can work towards unity in several ways: Focusing on our common beliefs in Scripture: While there may be differences in practice or interpretation, we can emphasize the core, Biblical beliefs that we hold in common as Christians. This can help build a foundation for dialogue and understanding. Practicing humility and respect: We can strive to listen to and learn from one another with an open mind and a respectful attitude. This can help us avoid unnecessary conflicts and build bridges of understanding. Engaging in dialogue and seeking common ground: Rather than focusing on our differences, we can engage in respectful dialogue and seek common ground where possible. This can help us find areas of agreement and build relationships based on mutual respect and understanding. Praying for unity: We can pray for unity within the body of Christ and ask God to help us overcome our divisions and work together in His service. Focusing on the mission of the Church: We can focus on the mission of the Church to love and serve others, rather than getting bogged down in doctrinal or theological debates. This can help us build a sense of unity based on a common purpose and goal. Ultimately, unity within the body of Christ is essential for effectively sharing the love and message of Jesus with the world. By working towards unity, we can build a stronger, more effective witness to the world and fulfill the Great Commission. Please remember that we are all different parts in a machine, with some Christians serving roles as the gears, putting into motion works for the Lord such as volunteering for the homeless, while others act as the machine’s throttle controller, keeping the faith in balance with scripture, such as a pastor, priest or lay minister. The Bible is the blueprint for the machine of Christ’s body, and if we deviate from the blueprint by modifying the machine, potential breakdowns could occur, leading to cults or denominations which are not in line with Biblical teachings.

 

[The Liturgist]

Hello folks. Today we will be analyzing the schism of churches, which has become prevalent in modern society.

Date​	May 25, 2024 | Breakdown of the Machine​
Verse​	1 Corinthians 1:10,12-13 (NIV): "I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. What I mean is this: One of you says, ‘I follow Paul’; another, ‘I follow Apollos’; another, ‘I follow Cephas’; still another, ‘I follow Christ.’ Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?" 1 Corinthians 12:24b-26 (NIV): "But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it." Romans 12:4-8 (NIV): "For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully."​
Explanation​	These three passages from the Bible emphasize the importance of unity and unity in diversity within the body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:10,12-13 admonishes the Corinthian church to have unity in their beliefs and actions, and warns against divisions that can arise from following different leaders or teachers. Paul asks if Christ is divided and emphasizes that they were all baptized in the name of Christ, not in the name of a particular teacher or leader.​ 1 Corinthians 12:24b-26 further emphasizes the need for unity in the body of Christ, as God has put all the parts together with equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers, and if one part is honored, every part rejoices. This passage emphasizes the interconnectedness of all members of the body of Christ and the importance of working together and supporting one another, just as a machine has multiple parts which work in unison to perform a task. Romans 12:4-8 builds on this theme by emphasizing the diversity of gifts and functions within the body of Christ. Paul encourages the Roman church to use their gifts for the benefit of the whole body and to work together in unity. These passages relate to division in Christianity throughout history, including the Schism of 1054 AD between the Eastern and Western Churches, the Protestant Reformation in 1517 AD, and the prevalence of over 30,000 denominations today. These divisions have often arisen from differences in beliefs, practices, and cultural or historical contexts, leading to fragmentation and a lack of unity within the body of Christ. For instance, in 2022, the Methodist Church broke up, as one side wanted to follow their own individuality instead of the Bible, while the other side wanted to keep traditions. However, it is important to note that not all divisions are equal or justified. Some divisions may be rooted in doctrinal or theological differences that are significant and cannot be easily reconciled, while others may be the result of cultural or historical factors that could potentially be overcome with dialogue, understanding, and mutual respect.
Societal Relevance​	As Christians in the modern world, we can work towards unity in several ways: Focusing on our common beliefs in Scripture: While there may be differences in practice or interpretation, we can emphasize the core, Biblical beliefs that we hold in common as Christians. This can help build a foundation for dialogue and understanding. Practicing humility and respect: We can strive to listen to and learn from one another with an open mind and a respectful attitude. This can help us avoid unnecessary conflicts and build bridges of understanding. Engaging in dialogue and seeking common ground: Rather than focusing on our differences, we can engage in respectful dialogue and seek common ground where possible. This can help us find areas of agreement and build relationships based on mutual respect and understanding. Praying for unity: We can pray for unity within the body of Christ and ask God to help us overcome our divisions and work together in His service. Focusing on the mission of the Church: We can focus on the mission of the Church to love and serve others, rather than getting bogged down in doctrinal or theological debates. This can help us build a sense of unity based on a common purpose and goal. Ultimately, unity within the body of Christ is essential for effectively sharing the love and message of Jesus with the world. By working towards unity, we can build a stronger, more effective witness to the world and fulfill the Great Commission. Please remember that we are all different parts in a machine, with some Christians serving roles as the gears, putting into motion works for the Lord such as volunteering for the homeless, while others act as the machine’s throttle controller, keeping the faith in balance with scripture, such as a pastor, priest or lay minister. The Bible is the blueprint for the machine of Christ’s body, and if we deviate from the blueprint by modifying the machine, potential breakdowns could occur, leading to cults or denominations which are not in line with Biblical teachings.

Indeed, this is why I advocate ecumenical reconciliation between the liturgical churches, in particular, between the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, because our doctrines are essentially identical, differing only in terminology, but the Oriental Orthodox were confused with the Monophysites who followed Eutyches and degenerated into Tritheism.

Conversely, I am unwilling to endorse doctrinal compromise, so there are barriers to reconciliation with the aliturgical churches, in particular, those which reject an understanding of the Holy Mysteries, or Sacraments, as a primary means of grace.

 

[AlexB23]

Indeed, this is why I advocate ecumenical reconciliation between the liturgical churches, in particular, between the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, because our doctrines are essentially identical, differing only in terminology, but the Oriental Orthodox were confused with the Monophysites who followed Eutyches and degenerated into Tritheism.

Conversely, I am unwilling to endorse doctrinal compromise, so there are barriers to reconciliation with the aliturgical churches, in particular, those which reject an understanding of the Holy Mysteries, or Sacraments, as a primary means of grace.

We will have to see if this reconciliation ever happens, where an Orthodox person can take communion in a Catholic church, or vice versa.

 

[The Liturgist]

We will have to see if this reconciliation ever happens, where an Orthodox person can take communion in a Catholic church, or vice versa.

Oh, the Catholics will give communion to the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox now, and some Syriac Orthodox churches will reciprocate (specifically, the one in Constantinople I have heard will give communion to Catholics). EOs on the other hand generally will not communicate Catholics, Eastern Catholic or otherwise and some bishops would be annoyed with laity who communicated there. Now, the Assyrian Church of the East will give the Eucharist to any Nicene Christian who believes in the Real Presence (which would include Lutherans and Anglo Catholics in addition to Roman Catholics and the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox), and it is not uncommon apparently for Chaldean Catholics to show up at Assyrian parishes and vice versa.

The question is, can we get from this state to something more concrete? Well, Fiducia Supplicans is a disaster in this respect, as is Traditiones Custodes, so I will say that as long as Pope Francis or an ideological compatriot of his is Pope, the chances of repairing the schism before it reaches a dismal 1,000 year anniversary in 1054 is unlikely. Actually, in the case of Constantinople, given EP politics, probably impossible, especially since Patriarch Bartholomew made the strange remark that Roman Catholics are “ontologically different” from Eastern Orthodox. Which takes us to Antioch, and they were not excommunicated by Rome until 1078, so perhaps 2078 is the date to aim for.

 

[AlexB23]

Oh, the Catholics will give communion to the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox now, and some Syriac Orthodox churches will reciprocate (specifically, the one in Constantinople I have heard will give communion to Catholics). EOs on the other hand generally will not communicate Catholics, Eastern Catholic or otherwise and some bishops would be annoyed with laity who communicated there. Now, the Assyrian Church of the East will give the Eucharist to any Nicene Christian who believes in the Real Presence (which would include Lutherans and Anglo Catholics in addition to Roman Catholics and the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox), and it is not uncommon apparently for Chaldean Catholics to show up at Assyrian parishes and vice versa.

The question is, can we get from this state to something more concrete? Well, Fiducia Supplicans is a disaster in this respect, as is Traditiones Custodes, so I will say that as long as Pope Francis or an ideological compatriot of his is Pope, the chances of repairing the schism before it reaches a dismal 1,000 year anniversary in 1054 is unlikely. Actually, in the case of Constantinople, given EP politics, probably impossible, especially since Patriarch Bartholomew made the strange remark that Roman Catholics are “ontologically different” from Eastern Orthodox. Which takes us to Antioch, and they were not excommunicated by Rome until 1078, so perhaps 2078 is the date to aim for.

I will be 78 years old in 2078. Just installed a new AI system on my computer, and downloaded a miniature Catechism into it, as well as a Catholic Bible and some Church history, so that means I can plug some of this stuff into the AI and learn about the schism. But first, the documents will have to be embedded (hard coded into the AI's memory).

 

[The Liturgist]

I will be 78 years old in 2078. Just installed a new AI system on my computer, and downloaded a miniature Catechism into it, as well as a Catholic Bible and some Church history, so that means I can plug some of this stuff into the AI and learn about the schism. But first, the documents will have to be embedded (hard coded into the AI's memory).

View attachment 351240

Well, I’ll be 102, if I’m still alive at all. But hey, Sir Francis Jackson, the organist at York Minster, managed to live to 103, so you never know

 

[AlexB23]

Well, I’ll be 102, if I’m still alive at all. But hey, Sir Francis Jackson, the organist at York Minster, managed to live to 103, so you never know

Haha, who knows. I'd rather be in the Father's House by that time, well, not by 2078, but around age 85 (2085).

John 14:2-4 (NIV): "My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going."

 

[The Liturgist]

Since I was about seven or eight years old I’ve always reckoned that if I live to 2050, any time after that is pure bonus time.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Hello folks. Today we will be analyzing the schism of churches, which has become prevalent in modern society.

Date​	May 25, 2024 | Breakdown of the Machine​
Verse​	1 Corinthians 1:10,12-13 (NIV): "I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. What I mean is this: One of you says, ‘I follow Paul’; another, ‘I follow Apollos’; another, ‘I follow Cephas’; still another, ‘I follow Christ.’ Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?" 1 Corinthians 12:24b-26 (NIV): "But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it." Romans 12:4-8 (NIV): "For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully."​
Explanation​	These three passages from the Bible emphasize the importance of unity and unity in diversity within the body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:10,12-13 admonishes the Corinthian church to have unity in their beliefs and actions, and warns against divisions that can arise from following different leaders or teachers. Paul asks if Christ is divided and emphasizes that they were all baptized in the name of Christ, not in the name of a particular teacher or leader.​ 1 Corinthians 12:24b-26 further emphasizes the need for unity in the body of Christ, as God has put all the parts together with equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers, and if one part is honored, every part rejoices. This passage emphasizes the interconnectedness of all members of the body of Christ and the importance of working together and supporting one another, just as a machine has multiple parts which work in unison to perform a task. Romans 12:4-8 builds on this theme by emphasizing the diversity of gifts and functions within the body of Christ. Paul encourages the Roman church to use their gifts for the benefit of the whole body and to work together in unity. These passages relate to division in Christianity throughout history, including the Schism of 1054 AD between the Eastern and Western Churches, the Protestant Reformation in 1517 AD, and the prevalence of over 30,000 denominations today. These divisions have often arisen from differences in beliefs, practices, and cultural or historical contexts, leading to fragmentation and a lack of unity within the body of Christ. For instance, in 2022, the Methodist Church broke up, as one side wanted to follow their own individuality instead of the Bible, while the other side wanted to keep traditions. However, it is important to note that not all divisions are equal or justified. Some divisions may be rooted in doctrinal or theological differences that are significant and cannot be easily reconciled, while others may be the result of cultural or historical factors that could potentially be overcome with dialogue, understanding, and mutual respect.
Societal Relevance​	As Christians in the modern world, we can work towards unity in several ways: Focusing on our common beliefs in Scripture: While there may be differences in practice or interpretation, we can emphasize the core, Biblical beliefs that we hold in common as Christians. This can help build a foundation for dialogue and understanding. Practicing humility and respect: We can strive to listen to and learn from one another with an open mind and a respectful attitude. This can help us avoid unnecessary conflicts and build bridges of understanding. Engaging in dialogue and seeking common ground: Rather than focusing on our differences, we can engage in respectful dialogue and seek common ground where possible. This can help us find areas of agreement and build relationships based on mutual respect and understanding. Praying for unity: We can pray for unity within the body of Christ and ask God to help us overcome our divisions and work together in His service. Focusing on the mission of the Church: We can focus on the mission of the Church to love and serve others, rather than getting bogged down in doctrinal or theological debates. This can help us build a sense of unity based on a common purpose and goal. Ultimately, unity within the body of Christ is essential for effectively sharing the love and message of Jesus with the world. By working towards unity, we can build a stronger, more effective witness to the world and fulfill the Great Commission. Please remember that we are all different parts in a machine, with some Christians serving roles as the gears, putting into motion works for the Lord such as volunteering for the homeless, while others act as the machine’s throttle controller, keeping the faith in balance with scripture, such as a pastor, priest or lay minister. The Bible is the blueprint for the machine of Christ’s body, and if we deviate from the blueprint by modifying the machine, potential breakdowns could occur, leading to cults or denominations which are not in line with Biblical teachings.

There is too much doctrinal inertia at this point. The half of the Christianity that is not Catholic will never become Catholic and the Catholic half will never give up their idea of supremacy.

 

[The Liturgist]

There is too much doctrinal inertia at this point. The half of the Christianity that is not Catholic will never become Catholic and the Catholic half will never give up their idea of supremacy.

That’s an assumption that is being disproven as we speak as traditionalist Catholics react in horror to Pope Francis using the powers he was given in such a shocking and problematic direction with Fiducia Supplicans, et cetera. Also, it suggests you never heard of the Old Catholics, who were members of the Roman Catholic Church until Vatican I; they were alienated by the adoption of the doctrine of Papal Infallibility, and while most have become rather liberal, there are two reasonably sized conservative Old Catholic churches remaining, the Polish National Catholic Church and the Norwegian Catholic Church, which maintain very traditional worship compared to the post-Vatican II Novus Ordo Missae in the degraded forms one sometimes encounters in many RCC parishes.

 

[AlexB23]

There is too much doctrinal inertia at this point. The half of the Christianity that is not Catholic will never become Catholic and the Catholic half will never give up their idea of supremacy.

Agreed.

 

[AlexB23]

Since I was about seven or eight years old I’ve always reckoned that if I live to 2050, any time after that is pure bonus time.

That is alright. We should accept our mortality, cos we will live forever in Heaven.