SBC pastors want another push to ban female clergy after Law Amendment failed

[Michie]

A group of Southern Baptist Convention clergy are urging the denomination to reconsider an amendment that would permanently prohibit female pastors at member churches after it fell 5 percentage points shy of the two-thirds support needed to pass last year.

In a statement titled "An Open Letter to Our Southern Baptist Family," the pastors and ministry leaders called for the measure known as the Law Amendment to be considered at the upcoming SBC Annual Meeting in Dallas, Texas.

The letter alludes to a recent decision by the SBC Credentials Committee to allow a church in South Carolina to remain in friendly cooperation with the convention even though it had a woman serving as teaching pastor.

Continued below.

SBC pastors want another push to ban female clergy after Law Amendment failed

A group of Southern Baptist Convention clergy are urging the denomination to reconsider an amendment that would permanently prohibit female pastors at member churches after it fell 5 percentage

www.christianpost.com

 

[JustaPewFiller]

I say this as a male member of an SBC church..

It amazes me that given all the issues the SBC is facing, that a decent segment of SBC seems to feel that "uppity women" are the biggest problem of all and the hill most worth dying on.

In any event, I think this will face the same issues, questions, arguments, etc it faced last time.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I say this as a male member of an SBC church..

It amazes me that given all the issues the SBC is facing, that a decent segment of SBC seems to feel that "uppity women" are the biggest problem of all and the hill most worth dying on.

In any event, I think this will face the same issues, questions, arguments, etc it faced last time.

Women in leadership positions is part of the decline. Stopping it prevents decline and heterodoxy, therefore it's fine to reinforce historic Christian standards.

 

[JustaPewFiller]

Women in leadership positions is part of the decline. Stopping it prevents decline and heterodoxy, therefore it's fine to reinforce historic Christian standards.

So, I'll ask one of the questions that tripped this up the first time.

No beating around the bush. List them out, specifically. I am not talking about job titles. I am talking about duties, roles, actions, ministries etc.

You can go with whichever list is shorter.

What duties, roles, actions, ministries etc. is it ok (or not ok) for women to perform in the church?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

So, I'll ask one of the questions that tripped this up the first time.

No beating around the bush. List them out, specifically. I am not talking about job titles. I am talking about duties, roles, actions, ministries etc.

You can go with whichever list is shorter.

What duties, roles, actions, ministries etc. is it ok (or not ok) for women to perform in the church?

But I am talking about titles. They should not be in leadership positions in the church. Any church that has done this has only proceeded to become less authentically Christian over time, less orthodox.

 

[JustaPewFiller]

But I am talking about titles. They should not be in leadership positions in the church. Any church that has done this has only proceeded to become less authentically Christian over time, less orthodox.

Well, that's one of the things that tripped this up the last time and there are very much leadership positions in SBC churches.

It isn't defined in the amendment so it causes all kinds of hub-bub.

The area with most agreement is a woman cannot be the "Lead Pastor". The one preaching the sermon on Sunday morning.

Past that "Lead Pastor" role it gets more argumentative.

Let me give an example.
Two churches - both churches have a woman that leads their children's ministry. The 2 women do everything you would expect the person who leads a church's children's ministry to do and they have some voice in the church due to their leadership of this ministry. Each also has a retried male that helps out with the boys. The ladies occasionally give direction to the men that do this in their respective churches. . Also, they may give direction the men that help get the stage set up for any special children's programs.

Church A calls the woman who does it "Children's Pastor"
Church B calls the woman who does it "Director of Children's Ministry".

In practice, the roles are identical between the 2 churches.

Within the SBC you have some that say Church A is out of line because the lady is called "Pastor" but that Church B is ok.
You also have some in the SBC that say both churches are out of line because the women are in some type of leadership role and sometimes give direction to men regardless of title.
You also have some that say both churches are ok.

See how it gets messy?

 

[Job 33:6]

Well, that's one of the things that tripped this up the last time and there are very much leadership positions in SBC churches.

It isn't defined in the amendment so it causes all kinds of hub-bub.

The area with most agreement is a woman cannot be the "Lead Pastor". The one preaching the sermon on Sunday morning.

Past that "Lead Pastor" role it gets more argumentative.

Let me give an example.
Two churches - both churches have a woman that leads their children's ministry. The 2 women do everything you would expect the person who leads a church's children's ministry to do and they have some voice the church due to their leadership of this ministry.

Church A calls the woman who does it "Children's Pastor"
Church B calls the woman who does it "Director of Children's Ministry".

In practice, the roles are identical between the 2 churches.

Within the SBC you have some that say Church A is out of line because the lady is called "Pastor".
You also have some in the SBC that say both churches are out of line because the women are in some type of leadership role regardless of title.
You also have some that say both churches are ok.

See how it gets messy?

That's basically how my church operates. There are women in pastoral roles doing the exact same things as pastors do otherwise. But they're just called "directors".

And scripture, I'd say is ambiguous on the matter. As dogmatic as we wish that we could be.

People argue that elders and deacons must be husbands of one wife. Then you flip right over to Romans and you have translations identifying Phoebe as a Deacon.

1 Timothy 3:2, 12 NIV
[2] Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

1 Timothy 3:4 NIV
[4] He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect.

[12] A deacon must be faithful to his wife and must manage his children and his household well.

Romans 16:1 NIV
[1] I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae.

 

[FireDragon76]

I say this as a male member of an SBC church..

It amazes me that given all the issues the SBC is facing, that a decent segment of SBC seems to feel that "uppity women" are the biggest problem of all and the hill most worth dying on.

In any event, I think this will face the same issues, questions, arguments, etc it faced last time.

Feature, not a bug.

Misogyny is useful when you're incompetent yourself.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

Women in leadership positions is part of the decline. Stopping it prevents decline and heterodoxy, therefore it's fine to reinforce historic Christian standards.

So you look to the past of the church as better? "Christian nations" falsely called, sending armies in the Name of the Lord to kill each other?

 

[Merrill]

The SBC has had declining membership for 20 straight years, and is down like 3.8 million from its peak

I am not in the SBC or Baptist, but it seems to me that the SBC has always been complementarian yes?

how is the issue of female pastors (ordained) even being debated?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

So you look to the past of the church as better? "Christian nations" falsely called, sending armies in the Name of the Lord to kill each other?

Falsely called how?

Nations do have armies which they use to kill people with. What's your point?

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

Falsely called how?

Nations do have armies which they use to kill people with. What's your point?

Those who are faithful to Christ, do not kill each other.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Those who are faithful to Christ, do not kill each other

That would appear not to be true, especially when it comes to justice. Are you making a broader claim that faithful Christians don't kill at all?

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

That would appear not to be true, especially when it comes to justice.

You are suggesting, that people faithful to Christ the Lord, do kill each other, especially when it comes to something that you are calling justice?