"Saved by faith alone but true faith is never alone" says the Forked tongue devils

[Cockcrow]

I don't see what's wrong with the original statement... that you're saved by faith but true faith is never alone is kind of what James 2 was making a point of as well. That someone who's genuinely a believer will live differently and display their faith in their works. It's biblical that works aren't how you get saved but they do show evidence of being saved. But it's not 100% reliable from the outside at least, as people can do good works with the wrong motivation, and the good works of someone who is saved might not be apparent to an observer.

Striving to be holy isn't about attaining salvation, faith gives you that up front, but in striving to be sanctified and becoming more like Jesus you bear a better witness and it can move people around you to get saved as well. That's the goal anyway

But dead faith still saves. So no its not automatic that someone who believes in Jesus will live a transformed life, because we still have the flesh.

 

[Jamdoc]

But dead faith still saves. So no its not automatic that someone who believes in Jesus will live a transformed life, because we still have the flesh.

There should be change in that person's life. It might not be apparent on the outside, you might not notice good works that they do do, but if they're saved it should show somehow, do you really believe something if you act contrary to that belief all the time?

If I believe that Climate Change is going to make the ocean levels rise up enough to swallow entire coastal cities in 5 years, would I buy a house on the beach?
Probably not.

It might be small changes, like maybe they haven't "cleaned up their act" but they talk about Jesus, maybe they don't drink to the point of getting drunk much anymore,
But if a person is exactly the same before and after, you have to question if you're really in the faith, do you really believe?

 

[Cockcrow]

There should be change in that person's life. It might not be apparent on the outside, you might not notice good works that they do do, but if they're saved it should show somehow, do you really believe something if you act contrary to that belief all the time?

If I believe that Climate Change is going to make the ocean levels rise up enough to swallow entire coastal cities in 5 years, would I buy a house on the beach?
Probably not.

It might be small changes, like maybe they haven't "cleaned up their act" but they talk about Jesus, maybe they don't drink to the point of getting drunk much anymore,
But if a person is exactly the same before and after, you have to question if you're really in the faith, do you really believe?

should vs. must

 

[Jamdoc]

should vs. must

sure like I said, it might not be visible to outside observers

and where Paul did say "God forbid" when talking about sinning as a saint, God doesn't actually stop a saint from sinning... but I can't think of how a person can hold the same attitude towards sin before and after salvation. The conviction is too heavy, it's impossible to enjoy something you once may have enjoyed quite a lot. Also while Paul said God forbid that we go on sinning so that grace may abound, Paul still outright said.. that grace does abound when sin abounds.

It's certainly no way to go about life as a saint though, Hebrews 12 is clear that God chastises and scourges every son He receives, and that chastisement is not comfortable either.

If someone is 100% the same before and "after" they should examine themselves though.

 

[Aaron112]

If someone is unchanged, nothing they do including examining themselves helps.
God must intervene in their life or nothing good results.

If someone is 100% the same before and "after" they should examine themselves though.

 

[Aaron112]

See a body laying in the street, with no breath in it? That's dead. No life. No good.

But dead faith still saves.

 

[fhansen]

We should repent of sins, thats sanctification, our daily walk and struggle with the flesh/spirit. but when it comes to what we must do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. salvation is a one time event Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you pass from death to life.

Repent means change of mind or turn. And in order to know what we are to turn from you look at the context, in terms of salvation you turn from idols and believe on Jesus Christ. turn from your false works based salvation, to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. has nothing to do with repenting of sins, repenting of sins is works Jonah 3:10. God repented more than anyone in the bible and he doesn't sin.

Once we've separated justifcation from actually walking justly then we've competely subverted the gospel. The abillty to walk justly now is part and parcel of our being justifed, of having turned to God and entering communion with Him by faith. That's at one and the same time a gift-and an obligation-to embrace and express that gift.

 

[Jamdoc]

Once we've separated justifcation from actually walking justly then we've competely subverted the gospel. The abillty to walk justly now is part and parcel of our being justifed, of having turned to God and entering communion with Him by faith. That's at one and the same time a gift-and an obligation-to embrace and express that gift.

part of that is because of how the bible specifically treats justification. When it's referred to justification is not treated as an ongoing process or a future event endpoint or goal, but as a past event that is already finished.

Romans 5

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

If you go through how the tense is, we were yet sinners, that is present, Christ died for us, that is past, finished.
Being now justified, that's present, but it is a present state of being based on an already finished past event, shall be saved from wrath, that's future, but the promise of shall be saved if based on the present condition of having already been justified. The justification isn't treated as an ongoing process but a present state based on something already done.
When we were enemies, we were reconciled, so a past state, changing based on a past event, the past event being we received the atonement, that's already happened.
So we were once enemies, and sinners, we still are sinners, but were reconciled and justified by the death of Jesus, and will be saved from future wrath because of that
It's just not treated as an ongoing process that you're a participant in here.

Now Sanctification, Paul terms differently
1 Thessalonians 4

1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

See sanctification here is not treated as a past event but ongoing, and the commandments connected to it are actions in which you are partnering in, you have some responsibility in them

with these passages and some others in mind, like say Romans 10 on Salvation

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Future tense.

I almost want to say that Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation, are as such.

You will be saved, and you are being sanctified, because you have been justified.
if that makes sense.

Does it mean we should answer "not yet, but I will be" when someone asks if we're saved? Possibly. At least I see a future component to salvation, namely in it being connected to the resurrection and Jesus' second coming.

1 Corinthians 5

3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

I mean Paul here seems to be telling the Church to toss a guy out for a nasty sin, and delivering him to Satan to kill his body, so that when Jesus comes he can be resurrected and still be saved.
In essence the guy had been justified, but was failing sanctification, have him die so he stops failing at that, and gets saved when Jesus comes.
That certainly couldn't happen if justification was an ongoing process, and having him be delivered to Satan to die would just be his condemnation, not his salvation in the day of the Lord Jesus. At least Paul does leave the possibility that this man has been justified, God will judge that.

another passage, while not the specific words used.. Philippians 1

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

He already began a work (justified you), will perform it (sanctification) until the day of Jesus Christ (salvation)