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Samson had long hair
- Thread starter Othniel
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The shroud of tirin cannot be christ, and I'll tell you why. You'll need to turn in your Bible to John 20 and read very carefully. You'll notice that there were (as was custom at the time) two sets of wrappings around Christ's body: a set of "linens" for his body, and a "burial cloth" for his head. The shroud of tirin is not a small cloth just for the head, but a full body wrap which includes an image of the body...this could not be the wrap which only covered Christ's head. For more on this, read the "Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel...a fabulous documentation of evidence surrounding Christ's life. It doesn't talk about hair...but it does talk about his beard.
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One more thing comes to mind in response to the "shroud" which is at the core of the issue: Even if the shroud fit the Biblical description of Jesus' burial clothes, which testimony should we believe? Scripture, or scientific (logical) evidence? (This is the very issue I'm trying to get at!)
Paul says if an angel of light preaches another gospel, we should not accept it because satan masquerades as such. How much more so should we reject "evidence" which denies the Truth of Scripture. Evolutionary, secular and philosophic thinking are all used to weaken our faith, and the more we turn from Scripture to other answers, the more we prove our own love for sin and unwillingness to face the Truth.
Peace to all who seek it,
<><
Paul says if an angel of light preaches another gospel, we should not accept it because satan masquerades as such. How much more so should we reject "evidence" which denies the Truth of Scripture. Evolutionary, secular and philosophic thinking are all used to weaken our faith, and the more we turn from Scripture to other answers, the more we prove our own love for sin and unwillingness to face the Truth.
Peace to all who seek it,
<><
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Originally posted by Othniel
The shroud of tirin cannot be christ, and I'll tell you why. You'll need to turn in your Bible to John 20 and read very carefully. You'll notice that there were (as was custom at the time) two sets of wrappings around Christ's body: a set of "linens" for his body, and a "burial cloth" for his head. The shroud of tirin is not a small cloth just for the head, but a full body wrap which includes an image of the body...this could not be the wrap which only covered Christ's head. For more on this, read the "Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel...a fabulous documentation of evidence surrounding Christ's life. It doesn't talk about hair...but it does talk about his beard.
I read the "Case for Christ" and loved it.
Do you believe that every word in the Bible is as it is supposed to be? I think I know your answer.
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VOW
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To Othniel:
I suggest you read "The Shroud of Turin," an excellent book which makes the case FOR the Shroud being the actual burial cloth of Christ. Historical evidence points to it being authentic, and it has been determined that the sample used for the Carbon-14 dating system was very possibly contaminated, giving a false reading.
Peace be with you,
~VOW
I suggest you read "The Shroud of Turin," an excellent book which makes the case FOR the Shroud being the actual burial cloth of Christ. Historical evidence points to it being authentic, and it has been determined that the sample used for the Carbon-14 dating system was very possibly contaminated, giving a false reading.
Peace be with you,
~VOW
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"Do I believe the words of the Bible are how they're supposed to be?"
Proverbs 30:5: "Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar."
Translations will vary...the Word remains the same. If I and the Bible disagree on any point, it is not the Bible who is in error, but I, the sinful creature. Praise God for forgiveness and the gift of His Spirit which teaches me to conform to His freedom-giving Law! (James 1:25)
As to the Shroud:
Carbon dating wouldn't prove anything anyway...it's ineffective and inaccurate. As many secular scientist agree with that as God-fearing ones. The Mt. St. Helen's ash was dated at like several million years, and that just happend ten years ago. The whole method is based on assumptions...bad idea that!
My issue with shroud has nothing to do with its age, but with the fact that it covered the full figure of a man, and Christ, as told by the eye witness John in the inspired Word of God, was not wrapped as so. Either John is wrong, or the Shroud of Tirin is the marking of someone else, making it either a fraud, or a mistake. At the very least, it is hardly conclusive proof that Christ long hair, and, as has been demonstrated by Scripture, He could not have. Only Nazerite Jews (not Jews from Nazareth..those are Nazernes) were aloud, by Jewish Law, to have long hair. Christ was not a Nazarite. In that case, I suppose we now have two conclusive proofs that the shroud is not Christ: 1 full body imprint, 2 hair length of Christ.
Even so...to debate this issue requires a new thread...the issue here is hair-length for men (for reasons of visually establishing distinct and unforgettable gender roles), and the shroud is hardly "proof" of anything...it hardly can hope to replace the Word of God so long as my heart belongs to Christ and Christ alone .
Proverbs 30:5: "Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar."
Translations will vary...the Word remains the same. If I and the Bible disagree on any point, it is not the Bible who is in error, but I, the sinful creature. Praise God for forgiveness and the gift of His Spirit which teaches me to conform to His freedom-giving Law! (James 1:25)
As to the Shroud:
Carbon dating wouldn't prove anything anyway...it's ineffective and inaccurate. As many secular scientist agree with that as God-fearing ones. The Mt. St. Helen's ash was dated at like several million years, and that just happend ten years ago. The whole method is based on assumptions...bad idea that!
My issue with shroud has nothing to do with its age, but with the fact that it covered the full figure of a man, and Christ, as told by the eye witness John in the inspired Word of God, was not wrapped as so. Either John is wrong, or the Shroud of Tirin is the marking of someone else, making it either a fraud, or a mistake. At the very least, it is hardly conclusive proof that Christ long hair, and, as has been demonstrated by Scripture, He could not have. Only Nazerite Jews (not Jews from Nazareth..those are Nazernes) were aloud, by Jewish Law, to have long hair. Christ was not a Nazarite. In that case, I suppose we now have two conclusive proofs that the shroud is not Christ: 1 full body imprint, 2 hair length of Christ.
Even so...to debate this issue requires a new thread...the issue here is hair-length for men (for reasons of visually establishing distinct and unforgettable gender roles), and the shroud is hardly "proof" of anything...it hardly can hope to replace the Word of God so long as my heart belongs to Christ and Christ alone .
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Thank you for the suggestion...I've heard recent arguments about the "proofs" for the shroud. I've also seen "evidence" from a man who claimed he had the dried blood of Christ in a vial, electron microscopic readings. Who do you believe? I'll take the Word of God.
Peace be with you also, as well to all you seek it,
<><
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Jesus did a lot of things that the Jews disagreed with, which is why they crucified Him.
Who is to say long hair wasn't one of those, if a minor one.
Who is to say long hair wasn't one of those, if a minor one.
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The Bible says...
Jesus did not break the Law. Jewish Law forbid anyone but a Nazarite from having long hair. If Christ broke the Law, then He could not have been perfect.
"I havenot come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, but to fulfill them."
John the Baptist was a Nazarite. He had long hair. Long hair was the sign of Nazarite, what set them apart to God. Christ did not follow other Nazarite rules, like not drinking wine, so He could not have been one.
And again, we're falling back on what if's and assumptions to support a point which the Bible is so obviously clear about that we have to explain to ourselves with our logic why we shouldn't listen to it on this issue. Killing babies is cultural too you know...so maybe abortion is ok.
Peace to all who seek it,
<><
Jesus did not break the Law. Jewish Law forbid anyone but a Nazarite from having long hair. If Christ broke the Law, then He could not have been perfect.
"I havenot come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, but to fulfill them."
John the Baptist was a Nazarite. He had long hair. Long hair was the sign of Nazarite, what set them apart to God. Christ did not follow other Nazarite rules, like not drinking wine, so He could not have been one.
And again, we're falling back on what if's and assumptions to support a point which the Bible is so obviously clear about that we have to explain to ourselves with our logic why we shouldn't listen to it on this issue. Killing babies is cultural too you know...so maybe abortion is ok.
Peace to all who seek it,
<><
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Peacebestill
JESUS IS LORD
Whether we like it or not we are affected by cultural mores, of which hair length is one.
As a former police officer I was required to keep my hair a certain length so as to appear neat.
Many workplaces have personal hygiene standards geared towards professional appearance.
Certainly they are not based on the bible, but most christians I see, including pastors, all look approximately the same.
No christian I associate with supports abortion.
I just don't see the link.
As a former police officer I was required to keep my hair a certain length so as to appear neat.
Many workplaces have personal hygiene standards geared towards professional appearance.
Certainly they are not based on the bible, but most christians I see, including pastors, all look approximately the same.
No christian I associate with supports abortion.
I just don't see the link.
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Sadly, I have spoken with some Christians, especially of the younger generation, who think abortion is justified in some instances, like rape for example. This is only one more small step in a long journey away from God.
Cultural mores within one's own culture should be irrelevant to a Christian because we have been freed from society's opinions and biases, especially if they go against Biblical teaching. This thread alone is proof that the majority of Christians today do not think that the Bible is an absolute authority. In fact, some Christians will do anything they can to not have to accept something they disagree with. This started many years ago with what we would call "trivial" things like hair. Then it became gender roles and homosexuality...and now, it's slowly becoming abortion/cloning. The modern church has been gradually trading in cultural mores for Biblical Truth.
Does not the Bible teach that even a little bit of sin left unwatched will fester and grow and eventually destroy the soul that harbors it? Does this not apply to the Church as well?
Of course it does!That is the link...one day we let what (in our fallible opinions) is something trivial go ...and the next day our children are killing their babies, or, just as bad, pursuing their careers instead of raising their children in the Word of God. God has His reasons for His Word, and no where does the Scripture make accepting parts of it up to our discretion. We are instead advised to "Trust in the Lord with all our hearts and lean not on our own understaning. (Proverbs 3:5) And that's the issue! The modern church has a severe lack of faith in the power, wisdom, and thereby grace, of God!
Life is interconnected beyond our understanding. God gave us His Word because we are too fallen (and therefore evil) to make certain decisions on our own. Even as Christians, we must turn to God's Word to receive Wisdom and understanding. If we then, as God's children, turn a deaf ear to the law, even our prayers our detestable to God. (Proverbs 28:9) Being a Christian means one is no longer under the Law, but that does not mean the Law is not the way God has told us to live so that it may go well with us in this world. Christ Himself said, "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and not do what I say?"
Praise God for the forgiveness He gives us that we may repent of our sins and turn to Him for graceful acceptance. Then, as He promised, He will purify us from our wickedness, writing His Word on our hearts as a joy and a Truth, and by His Spirit giving us the strength to change and grow for His glory. The only thing which can stop us from this is the hardening of our hearts by ourselves. Once we have labeled God's Word as a cultural more, what's to stop our hard hearts from forsaking Him all together?
The greatest hinderance to meaningful evangelism today is the lifestyles of those who are attempting to evangelize.
Peace to all who seek it,
<><
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Peacebestill
JESUS IS LORD
AMEN!
This is why, even tho I do not have long hair, my faith allows for me to have what many would consider to be long hair. My standards are not based on what society says is right and wrong.
Society and government are not our atandards, Gods Word is our standard.
Abortion is wrong, period. No exceptions.
This is why, even tho I do not have long hair, my faith allows for me to have what many would consider to be long hair. My standards are not based on what society says is right and wrong.
Society and government are not our atandards, Gods Word is our standard.
Abortion is wrong, period. No exceptions.
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Long hair, short hair or no hair.
God looks not at the hair.
He looks at the heart.
Personally, I don't think long hair looks good on men.
I grew up in a home with a father who was in the USMC for 26 yrs. I was in the USMC for 10 years. I just got my hair cut today, high and tight cut we call it in the military.
What's funny is that true barbers(electric hair clipper men) are few and far between, at least in my community.
Cutting a real short flatop(with an airstrip) is an art form, lol. Really it is.
GySgt
James
God looks not at the hair.
He looks at the heart.
Personally, I don't think long hair looks good on men.
I grew up in a home with a father who was in the USMC for 26 yrs. I was in the USMC for 10 years. I just got my hair cut today, high and tight cut we call it in the military.
What's funny is that true barbers(electric hair clipper men) are few and far between, at least in my community.
Cutting a real short flatop(with an airstrip) is an art form, lol. Really it is.
GySgt
James
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Of course God looks at the heart. The hair issue has nothing to do with salvation in and of itself...although disobeying even the smallest letter of the law and willinging continueing to do so and teaching others to do so as well is condemned by Scripture...but the hair command has more to do with setting Christians apart from the world as a like-minded and Christ focused community. Of course, much of modern Christendom has little concept of this. We're to caught up in bizarre theology/prophecy and our own opinions about what we want to believe. As we sit here discussing this, our "heavenly" culture becomes more and more worldly, and submits more and more to society's professed "advances" (like evolution and feminism). Quietly professing homosexuals are are ordained rather than rebuked, and mother's send their children off to public day-care and school to go teach people to listen to the Word of God at the local seminary. We are hypocrites, and God knows it...cause...as you said, He looks at the heart.
Peace to all who seek it,
<><
Peace to all who seek it,
<><
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Also, I finally found the verse I've been looking for in regards to the question how long is long? Here's the Bible's answer:
"Warn them then against quarreling about words ; it is of no value and only ruins those who listen . Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and correctly handles the Word of Truth." 2 Timothy 2:14-15
A Christian's hair isn't about themself...it's about the Christian community. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Let your light shine before men. If the Christian community wants to save the souls it professes to care for, the surest way to draw the sick and needy is to truly live separate from the world. We compromise our witness more with eveyr hypocrisy.
Peace to all who seek it,
<><
"Warn them then against quarreling about words ; it is of no value and only ruins those who listen . Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and correctly handles the Word of Truth." 2 Timothy 2:14-15
A Christian's hair isn't about themself...it's about the Christian community. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Let your light shine before men. If the Christian community wants to save the souls it professes to care for, the surest way to draw the sick and needy is to truly live separate from the world. We compromise our witness more with eveyr hypocrisy.
Peace to all who seek it,
<><
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I agree seebs. Fussing about the Word of God, and not wanting to accept it is a travesty of faith.
Yet, it your statement is meant as a sort of rebuke......not too sure I understand how speaking the Truth in love is "fussing."
Anycase, I'm out of general theology from now on so if you want to continue this you'll have to pm me.
Peace to all who seek it,
<><
Yet, it your statement is meant as a sort of rebuke...
...not too sure I understand how speaking the Truth in love is "fussing."Anycase, I'm out of general theology from now on so if you want to continue this you'll have to pm me.
Peace to all who seek it,
<><
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