Sabbath keeping

[SabbathBlessings]

2Cor 3:6-11 does not say the Sabbath is not a moral commandment, but the other 9 are. God never separated the Sabbath from His other 9 commandments- man did this. God said He would not alter His Words. Psa 89:34

God identified all 10 of the commandments as His commandments Exo 20:6 Deut 4:13

We are to obey God, that is the morally right thing to do.

God said to Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy Exo 20:8 forgetting what God said to Remember is not how we honor God.
God used the words " blessed and holy" in the Sabbath commandment- only God can remove His blessing and He never did of the Sabbath including when He reveals His righteousness and salvation (eternal) Isa 56:1-6
The Sabbath reveals our Creator Exo 20:11 so we never forget where we came from who created us. Keeping it is a sign we are one of God's people Eze 20:20 that we depend on Him for sanctification Eze 20:12 instead of trying to sanctify ourselves.

Its best we believe what God said and live by His every Word Mat 4:4

 

[Bob S]

2Cor 3:6-11 does not say the Sabbath is not a moral commandment, but the other 9 are. God never separated the Sabbath from His other 9 commandments- man did this. God said He would not alter His Words. Psa 89:34

I didn't write that it did SB. Why must I have to correct much of your responses? Here, read my statement again: Sabbath was a ritual command sandwiched between nine commands dealing with morality. 2Cor 3:6-11 tells us those commands were the ministry of death. They had no salvific value. All they were good for was to point out sin. The verses tell us that they were temporary and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit replaced them not just for the Israelites, but for all mankind. Thus no one is under the command to observe the ritual day given only to Israel.

If you believe contrary to my statement then have at it.

God identified all 10 of the commandments as His commandments Exo 20:6 Deut 4:13

So what? Is anyone denying that?

We are to obey God, that is the morally right thing to do.

That doesn't make the Sabbath command like the other nine now does it?

God said to Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy Exo 20:8 forgetting what God said to Remember is not how we honor God.
God used the words " blessed and holy" in the Sabbath commandment- only God can remove His blessing and He never did of the Sabbath including when He reveals His righteousness and salvation (eternal) Isa 56:1-6

You seem to make the ritual Sabbath command the greatest one ever given. SDA lives revolve around the Sabbath while the remainder of Christians revolve around the real greatest comand, LOVE.

The Sabbath reveals our Creator Exo 20:11 so we never forget where we came from who created us.

LOVE reveals Jesus who died that we might live. There is no greater thing than giving one's life that others might live.

Keeping it is a sign we are one of God's people Eze 20:20 that we depend on Him for sanctification Eze 20:12 instead of trying to sanctify ourselves.

Its best we believe what God said and live by His every Word Mat 4:4

"Every word"????? God said to keep the feast days. Do SDAs keep the feast days? I am unaware if they do. How about the other 306 commands many of which pertain to the individual?

How about some answers to our very important questions.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I didn't write that it did SB. Why must I have to correct much of your responses? Here, read my statement again: Sabbath was a ritual command sandwiched between nine commands dealing with morality.

God wrote Ten Commandments with His own finger and never separated the Sabbath other than telling us to Remember, so if we believe God, this means we should not forget. God never taught only 9 of His commandments are moral and the Sabbath commandment is not so therefore we can ignore God's Word. All of God's commandments are righteous Psa 119:172 all of God's commandments are Truth Psa 119:151 therefore all of God's commandments are moral. Jesus said not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19 . I do not believe the one commandment God said to Remember- is holy and blessed by God, is how we join ourselves to Christ Isa 56:1-6, how we receive sanctification Eze 20:12, reveals our Creator Exo 20:11 shows He is our God we are His people Eze 20:20 is a "least" commandment but even if one thinks its so, we are told still to keep. Your disagreement on God's Sabbath is not really with man

2Cor 3:6-11 tells us those commands were the ministry of death. They had no salvific value. All they were good for was to point out sin. The verses tell us that they were temporary and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit replaced them not just for the Israelites, but for all mankind. Thus no one is under the command to observe the ritual day given only to Israel.

I would suggest to prayerfully read this, which break down in detail this greatly misinterpreted scripture from Paul, which is why we have warnings of doing this and the consequences are huge 2 Peter 3:16

In verses 1-3 we have an introduction to a new section which contains an allusion to the Ten Commandments and the New Covenant:

• First, there were, apparently, “letters of recommendation” that ministers were caring at this time, possibly for the purpose of avoiding false teachers, but it seems like in Paul’s view, a true “letter of recommendation” was the changed lives of the people he ministered to which was evident outwardly (verses 1-2).
• The reason for their change is because they have the New Covenant. Verse 3 is using New Covenant language (in fact we are sure of this, because verse 6 says “new covenant”). It says that they’re lives are letters written by the Spirit in the heart, and not by ink on “tablets of stone,” an allusion or quick hint to the Ten Commandments.
• A good hermeneutical move is to always go to where the author is referring or alluding to, in order to better understand what he means. Paul is borrowing New Covenant language directly from the actual prophecy about the New Covenant in Jer. 31:30-33 (cf. Ezek. 36:26-27). In Jeremiah 31:33, we read that God will write His “laws” in their mind and hearts. Since Paul, while speaking about this New Covenant, alludes to the Ten Commandments (tablets of stone), the law in this prophecy is the Ten Commandments being written in another location, the mind and heart.
• The New Covenant is, therefore, a total transformation of the heart, where sins are forgiven and forgotten, God’s Law is written in the heart by the Spirit, and people begin to actually live righteous lives (cf. Jer. 31:34, Ezek. 36:26-27). The Law can only be obeyed by the power of God’s Spirit.
• Therefore, the lives of the Corinthian Christians are living manifestations of God’s law. It was not abolished for them (which Mr. Tucker repeatedly says). On the contrary, their lives manifest obedience to it.
• This is the immediate context, and obviously what follows after this will not mean that the Ten Commandments was abolished for the Christian, since it is written in their hearts. The change was in location, from tablets of stone to “fleshy tables of the heart.”
• QUESTION: However, if what follows will show that the Ten commandments were abolished for the Christian, why are they still playing a role in the lives of Christians? Provide examples. See: Eph. 6:1-3 (actually, the whole letter of Ephesians alludes to various commandments to not break them, see 4:25 28, 29, 31, 5:3-5, 6), Rom. 3:31, 7:7-12, especially verse 13).

SECTION 2: THE LETTER KILLS, THE MINISTRATION OF DEATH

• In verse 4, Paul says that he is fully confident that they are living New Covenant lives which manifest obedience to the Ten Commandments from the heart rather than from tablets of stones (verses 2-3), because his trust is “through Christ toward God” and not in the work they did for them.
• Nevertheless, God made Paul the minister of this New Covenant, not of the letter, which previously was on stone and ink, but of the Spirit, which is now the Law written in the heart (verse 6a).
• The last clause of verse 6, and also verses 7 and 9 speak of the Law as something that kills, brings death and condemns. Why?
• Paul does not here say how the Law kills, but he does in Romans 7:7-13. It kills by revealing the source of death, which is sin! Compared with Psalm 119:86-88:
  
  “All Your commandments are faithful; They persecute me wrongfully; Help me! They almost made an end of me on earth, But I did not forsake Your precepts. Revive me according to Your lovingkindness, So that I may KEEP the testimony of Your mouth.” (Psa. 119:86-88. Note: Comparing the “commandments” here to Rom. 7:7, we learn that the specific laws that kill are the Ten Commandments, since Paul quotes from the tenth one to make his point).
• Psalm 119:86-88 may be referring to David’s enemies as the persecutors, but the clauses of each sentence indicate that the Law has a special function of revealing sin, especially when we compare them to Romans 7:7-13, which also speak of the commandments as something that kills, yet continues to be desirable by Paul.
• We learn from these references that: 1. The law kills in the sense that it reveals sin by pointing to our faults, and 2. This, however, should motivate us to obey it to be in harmony with it.

SECTION 3: TWO MINISTRATIONS: VERSE 9:

• The ministration of RIGHTEOUSNESS
• The ministration of CONDEMNATION

SECTION 4: WAS THE LAW ABOLISHED?

• LET US ASSUME THE TEXT MEANS THE LAW WAS ABOLISHED AS WELL. Various problems arise:
  
  –ONE: The immediate context says it is written in the heart (verses 2-3, cf. Jer. 31:33).
  –TWO: In Rom. 7:13 Paul asks, “Has then what is good (the commandment, verse 12) made death unto me?” His answer is a resounding, “certainly not!.”
  -No, because Paul also wrote that faith establishes, rather then abolishes, the law (Rom. 3:31).
  -No, because David, speaking of the same law that kills, views that as a good thing, and asks God to help him even more to keep it! (cf. Psa. 119:86-88).
• Compare verses 7 and 13 to Romans 3:21. Same Greek word: katargeo.
• The same Greek word in verse 7 is used in verse 13. Both mention what the Israelites could NOT look upon

SECTION 5: WHAT, THAN, WAS ABOLISHED?

• According to verses 7-13, the following things were abolished:
  
  -The ministration under Moses which included the ministry under the Old Dispensation, including the tablets of stone and, by implication, the entire earthly Sanctuary service, to be replaced with the ministration of the Spirit, with fleshy tablets and, by implication, a heavenly Sanctuary (cf. Heb. 8:2).
  -The face of Moses, his leadership, being replaced by the face of Christ, as the new High Priest.
• The tablets would not be necessary when its contents are lived out in the lives of believers. Christians should not be trying to measure up to standards that have not convicted their minds and transformed their thoughts. God wants people to want to do right, and He does this by writing His moral principles in their hearts as He previously wrote them on stone. The stones are no longer needed when its principles are lived and obeyed. Once again, believers would NOT insist on abolishing the Law if they truly have it written in the heart.

CONCLUSION: The critic asked, “When was the law established?” but this time quotes 2 Corinthians 3. According to the document we are examining, the law “ended at the cross for believers.” However, that is not what 2 Cor. 3 teaches. On the contrary, this chapter reinforces the Ten Commandments in a better way, as principles that are now written in the heart, rather than stone, under the New Covenant for believers.

This is what we get from the immediate context. The first three verses demonstrate what the lives of New Covenant believers look like. They have the Law of God written in the heart, and it is quite evident. They are, as Paul puts it, living epistles, “known and read by all men.” Paul borrows language from the New Covenant in Jer. 31:33 and alludes to the Ten Commandments when he mentioned the “tablets of stones.” In other words, these Corinthians believers have the Ten Commandments written in their hearts, as promised in the New Covenant prophecy, and everyone can see it by their lives and acts. We know it is “ten” commandments, which includes the fourth, because the “tablets of stone” contained ten, not nine. Therefore, all Ten Commandments are written in their hearts, and as the other nine are practiced both spiritually and practically, so with the fourth one. Anyone living the New Covenant experience, therefore, will not be going around claiming that the Law “ended for believers.”

The conclusion drawn is that the first few verses speak about the Law written in the heart and lived out by the Corinthians believers, what follows after verse 3, therefore, does not abolish the Law. A careful look at the remaining verses reveal that indeed something was abolished, and that was the old ministration of the Law under Moses, along Moses himself and the tablets of stone. The contents of the Law, however, were transferred to the heart. A comparison with verse 13 with the actual story Paul is talking about, found in Exo. 34:29-35, reveals that what was abolished was that which “the children of Israel could NOT look steadily at…” In Exo. 34, the tablets of stone were in plain view in the hands of Moses, but his face was covered. Nevertheless, there is no longer a need for the stone tablets, not that its contents are in the mind and hearts of New Covenant believers.

Not only does the immediate context not allow for the contents of the tablets to be abolished, Paul says in Rom. 3:31 that the Law is NOT made “void” to believers. The Greek word translated “void” is the same one translated “abolished” or “passing away” in 2 Cor. 3.

2 Cor. 3 also explains that the tablets of stone are referred to as the “ministration of death” and “condemnation.” This is because, as Paul explains elsewhere, the Ten Commandments reveal sin, and sin brings death (see Rom. 7:7-11, cf. James. 1:15). Nevertheless, the commandment that does this is considered “holy, just and good” and that which is good does NOT become death to believers (see verses 12-13). Of course, because as 2 Cor. 3 says, it is written in the heart.

PART 2: POINT BY POINT RESPONSE TO AN ADVENTIST CRITIC: 2 CORINTHIANS 3 - Advent Defense League

PART 2: POINT BY POINT RESPONSE TO AN ADVENTIST CRITIC: 2 CORINTHIANS 3by Elder Edwin M. Cotto (notes for the video response). INTRO: This begins part 2 of our series responding to critic Chris Tucker (full article here: https://hearhisvoice.today/). The first question is: When was the Law...

adventdefenseleague.com

 

[Bob S]

God wrote Ten Commandments with His own finger and never separated the Sabbath other than telling us to Remember, so if we believe God, this means we should not forget. God never taught only 9 of His commandments are moral and the Sabbath commandment is not so therefore we can ignore God's Word. All of God's commandments are righteous Psa 119:172 all of God's commandments are Truth Psa 119:151 therefore all of God's commandments are moral. Jesus said not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19 . I do not believe the one commandment God said to Remember- is holy and blessed by God, is how we join ourselves to Christ Isa 56:1-6, how we receive sanctification Eze 20:12, reveals our Creator Exo 20:11 shows He is our God we are His people Eze 20:20 is a "least" commandment but even if one thinks its so, we are told still to keep. Your disagreement on God's Sabbath is not really with man

I would suggest to prayerfully read this, which break down in detail this greatly misinterpreted scripture from Paul, which is why we have warnings of doing this and the consequences are huge 2 Peter 3:16

In verses 1-3 we have an introduction to a new section which contains an allusion to the Ten Commandments and the New Covenant:

• First, there were, apparently, “letters of recommendation” that ministers were caring at this time, possibly for the purpose of avoiding false teachers, but it seems like in Paul’s view, a true “letter of recommendation” was the changed lives of the people he ministered to which was evident outwardly (verses 1-2).
• The reason for their change is because they have the New Covenant. Verse 3 is using New Covenant language (in fact we are sure of this, because verse 6 says “new covenant”). It says that they’re lives are letters written by the Spirit in the heart, and not by ink on “tablets of stone,” an allusion or quick hint to the Ten Commandments.
• A good hermeneutical move is to always go to where the author is referring or alluding to, in order to better understand what he means. Paul is borrowing New Covenant language directly from the actual prophecy about the New Covenant in Jer. 31:30-33 (cf. Ezek. 36:26-27). In Jeremiah 31:33, we read that God will write His “laws” in their mind and hearts. Since Paul, while speaking about this New Covenant, alludes to the Ten Commandments (tablets of stone), the law in this prophecy is the Ten Commandments being written in another location, the mind and heart.
• The New Covenant is, therefore, a total transformation of the heart, where sins are forgiven and forgotten, God’s Law is written in the heart by the Spirit, and people begin to actually live righteous lives (cf. Jer. 31:34, Ezek. 36:26-27). The Law can only be obeyed by the power of God’s Spirit.
• Therefore, the lives of the Corinthian Christians are living manifestations of God’s law. It was not abolished for them (which Mr. Tucker repeatedly says). On the contrary, their lives manifest obedience to it.
• This is the immediate context, and obviously what follows after this will not mean that the Ten Commandments was abolished for the Christian, since it is written in their hearts. The change was in location, from tablets of stone to “fleshy tables of the heart.”
• QUESTION: However, if what follows will show that the Ten commandments were abolished for the Christian, why are they still playing a role in the lives of Christians? Provide examples. See: Eph. 6:1-3 (actually, the whole letter of Ephesians alludes to various commandments to not break them, see 4:25 28, 29, 31, 5:3-5, 6), Rom. 3:31, 7:7-12, especially verse 13).

SECTION 2: THE LETTER KILLS, THE MINISTRATION OF DEATH

• In verse 4, Paul says that he is fully confident that they are living New Covenant lives which manifest obedience to the Ten Commandments from the heart rather than from tablets of stones (verses 2-3), because his trust is “through Christ toward God” and not in the work they did for them.
• Nevertheless, God made Paul the minister of this New Covenant, not of the letter, which previously was on stone and ink, but of the Spirit, which is now the Law written in the heart (verse 6a).
• The last clause of verse 6, and also verses 7 and 9 speak of the Law as something that kills, brings death and condemns. Why?
• Paul does not here say how the Law kills, but he does in Romans 7:7-13. It kills by revealing the source of death, which is sin! Compared with Psalm 119:86-88:
  
  “All Your commandments are faithful; They persecute me wrongfully; Help me! They almost made an end of me on earth, But I did not forsake Your precepts. Revive me according to Your lovingkindness, So that I may KEEP the testimony of Your mouth.” (Psa. 119:86-88. Note: Comparing the “commandments” here to Rom. 7:7, we learn that the specific laws that kill are the Ten Commandments, since Paul quotes from the tenth one to make his point).
• Psalm 119:86-88 may be referring to David’s enemies as the persecutors, but the clauses of each sentence indicate that the Law has a special function of revealing sin, especially when we compare them to Romans 7:7-13, which also speak of the commandments as something that kills, yet continues to be desirable by Paul.
• We learn from these references that: 1. The law kills in the sense that it reveals sin by pointing to our faults, and 2. This, however, should motivate us to obey it to be in harmony with it.

SECTION 3: TWO MINISTRATIONS: VERSE 9:

• The ministration of RIGHTEOUSNESS
• The ministration of CONDEMNATION

SECTION 4: WAS THE LAW ABOLISHED?

• LET US ASSUME THE TEXT MEANS THE LAW WAS ABOLISHED AS WELL. Various problems arise:
  
  –ONE: The immediate context says it is written in the heart (verses 2-3, cf. Jer. 31:33).
  –TWO: In Rom. 7:13 Paul asks, “Has then what is good (the commandment, verse 12) made death unto me?” His answer is a resounding, “certainly not!.”
  -No, because Paul also wrote that faith establishes, rather then abolishes, the law (Rom. 3:31).
  -No, because David, speaking of the same law that kills, views that as a good thing, and asks God to help him even more to keep it! (cf. Psa. 119:86-88).
• Compare verses 7 and 13 to Romans 3:21. Same Greek word: katargeo.
• The same Greek word in verse 7 is used in verse 13. Both mention what the Israelites could NOT look upon

SECTION 5: WHAT, THAN, WAS ABOLISHED?

• According to verses 7-13, the following things were abolished:
  
  -The ministration under Moses which included the ministry under the Old Dispensation, including the tablets of stone and, by implication, the entire earthly Sanctuary service, to be replaced with the ministration of the Spirit, with fleshy tablets and, by implication, a heavenly Sanctuary (cf. Heb. 8:2).
  -The face of Moses, his leadership, being replaced by the face of Christ, as the new High Priest.
• The tablets would not be necessary when its contents are lived out in the lives of believers. Christians should not be trying to measure up to standards that have not convicted their minds and transformed their thoughts. God wants people to want to do right, and He does this by writing His moral principles in their hearts as He previously wrote them on stone. The stones are no longer needed when its principles are lived and obeyed. Once again, believers would NOT insist on abolishing the Law if they truly have it written in the heart.

CONCLUSION: The critic asked, “When was the law established?” but this time quotes 2 Corinthians 3. According to the document we are examining, the law “ended at the cross for believers.” However, that is not what 2 Cor. 3 teaches. On the contrary, this chapter reinforces the Ten Commandments in a better way, as principles that are now written in the heart, rather than stone, under the New Covenant for believers.

This is what we get from the immediate context. The first three verses demonstrate what the lives of New Covenant believers look like. They have the Law of God written in the heart, and it is quite evident. They are, as Paul puts it, living epistles, “known and read by all men.” Paul borrows language from the New Covenant in Jer. 31:33 and alludes to the Ten Commandments when he mentioned the “tablets of stones.” In other words, these Corinthians believers have the Ten Commandments written in their hearts, as promised in the New Covenant prophecy, and everyone can see it by their lives and acts. We know it is “ten” commandments, which includes the fourth, because the “tablets of stone” contained ten, not nine. Therefore, all Ten Commandments are written in their hearts, and as the other nine are practiced both spiritually and practically, so with the fourth one. Anyone living the New Covenant experience, therefore, will not be going around claiming that the Law “ended for believers.”

The conclusion drawn is that the first few verses speak about the Law written in the heart and lived out by the Corinthians believers, what follows after verse 3, therefore, does not abolish the Law. A careful look at the remaining verses reveal that indeed something was abolished, and that was the old ministration of the Law under Moses, along Moses himself and the tablets of stone. The contents of the Law, however, were transferred to the heart. A comparison with verse 13 with the actual story Paul is talking about, found in Exo. 34:29-35, reveals that what was abolished was that which “the children of Israel could NOT look steadily at…” In Exo. 34, the tablets of stone were in plain view in the hands of Moses, but his face was covered. Nevertheless, there is no longer a need for the stone tablets, not that its contents are in the mind and hearts of New Covenant believers.

Not only does the immediate context not allow for the contents of the tablets to be abolished, Paul says in Rom. 3:31 that the Law is NOT made “void” to believers. The Greek word translated “void” is the same one translated “abolished” or “passing away” in 2 Cor. 3.

2 Cor. 3 also explains that the tablets of stone are referred to as the “ministration of death” and “condemnation.” This is because, as Paul explains elsewhere, the Ten Commandments reveal sin, and sin brings death (see Rom. 7:7-11, cf. James. 1:15). Nevertheless, the commandment that does this is considered “holy, just and good” and that which is good does NOT become death to believers (see verses 12-13). Of course, because as 2 Cor. 3 says, it is written in the heart.

PART 2: POINT BY POINT RESPONSE TO AN ADVENTIST CRITIC: 2 CORINTHIANS 3 - Advent Defense League

PART 2: POINT BY POINT RESPONSE TO AN ADVENTIST CRITIC: 2 CORINTHIANS 3by Elder Edwin M. Cotto (notes for the video response). INTRO: This begins part 2 of our series responding to critic Chris Tucker (full article here: https://hearhisvoice.today/). The first question is: When was the Law...

adventdefenseleague.com

I read the whole article SB and Mr Cotto left out the main part of 2Cor3:6-11. Paul in verse 11 wrote: And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! Transitory means temporary and nowhere does Paul indicate that the ministry of the Holy Spirit is the 10 commandments. If it were the 10 commandments that the Holy Spirit is the minister of then I would have to say the Holy Spirit is not doing the job He is put there to do. People spend weeks listening to evangelists teach and preach the Sabbath to mostly no avail. Wouldn't you think the Holy Spirit would inspire most of those listening????? This fact leads me to know it is not the 10 commandments that is written on our hearts. One more time, are you aware that not one of the 10 commandments WERE about LOVE???, yet the greatest command ever given is asking us to love others as Jesus loves us. Which commandment should we be telling the world about SB? That is certainly a no-brainer, of course, it is LOVE.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I read the whole article SB and Mr Cotto left out the main part of 2Cor36-11. Paul in verse 11 wrote: And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! transitory means temporary and nowhere does Paul indicate that the ministry of the Holy Spirit is the 10 commandments. If it were the 10 commandments that the Holy Spirit is the minister of then I would have to say the Holy Spirit is not doing the job He is put there to do. People spend weeks listening to evangelists teach and preach the Sabbath to mostly no avail. Wouldn't you think the Holy Spirit would inspire most of those listening????? This fact leads me to know it is not the 10 commandments that is written on our hearts. One more time, are you aware that not one of the 10 commandments WERE about LOVE???, yet the greatest command ever given is asking us to love others as Jesus loves us. Which commandment should we be telling the world about SB? That is certainly a no-brainer, of course it is LOVE.

All of God's commandments are based on love.

He said so right in the Ten Commandments written by His own finger.
Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

If we love God would we worship other gods. No
If we love God would we bow to idols. No
If we love God would we vain His holy name. No
If we love God would we forget and profane His holy Sabbath day. No

If we love our fellow man would we not honor our mother or father. No
If we love our fellow man would we commit murder. No
If we love our fellow man would we commit adultery. No
If we love our fellow man would we steal. No
If we love our fellow man would we lie. No
If we love our fellow man would we covet. No

Love is not just a feeling that goes undefined in scripture. Love fulfills the Ten Commandments Rom 13:9 1 John 5:2-3 John 15:10 breaking the least of them Mat 5:19 is not showing love to God or to man.

The ministry of death is depending on our own righteousness and our own laws, instead of walking with God's law in our heart, the same way Jesus walked, keeping all of the commandments, including the Sabbath, teaching not to break the least of these commandments and is our example to follow.


All gets sorted out soon enough.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

All of God's commandments are based on love.

Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

If we love God would we worship other gods. No
If we love God would we bow to idols. No
If we love God would we vain His holy name. No
If we love God would we forget and profane His holy Sabbath day. No

If we love our fellow man would we not honor our mother or father. No
If we love our fellow man would we commit murder. No
If we love our fellow man would we commit adultery. No
If we love our fellow man would we steal. No
If we love our fellow man would we lie. No
If we love our fellow man would we covet. No

Love is not just a feeling that goes undefined in scripture. Love fulfills the Ten Commandments Rom 13:9 1 John 5:2-3 John 15:10 breaking the least of them Mat 5:19 is not showing love to God or to man.

The ministry of death is depending on our own righteousness and our own laws, instead of walking with God's law in our heart, the same way Jesus walked, keeping all of the commandments, including the Sabbath, teaching not to break the least of these commandments and is our example to follow.


All gets sorted out soon enough.

I really hate this expression from Paul "the ministry of death" and I disagree with completely and no wonder people are confused about the commandments. I really like the post before that expression I really agree with it.

yes all will get sorted out soon, This I know, the Kingdom of heaven is within reach, we may see within this generation the return of Christ.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I really hate this expression from Paul "the ministry of death" and I disagree with completely and no wonder people are confused about the commandments. I really like the post before that expression I really agree with it.

yes all will get sorted out soon, This I know, the Kingdom of heaven is within reach, we may see within this generation the return of Christ.

Yes, he certainly had a way with words, we could get dizzy by his readings if one doesn't take time to carefully understand what he is trying to say, never countermanding God or even himself. The warnings of misunderstanding Paul are huge 2 Peter 3:16 so if Jesus never taught our interpterion of Paul teachings, best to stick with the example of Jesus- how He lived and what He taught. Jesus will only lead us on the narrow path back to reconciliation.

 

[Bob S]

All of God's commandments are based on love.

That is not in the least bit true. The commandments were based on DUTY. There is not one word that told the Israelites they had to love what was commanded of them.

He said so right in the Ten Commandments written by His own finger.
Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

So once again I will correct your error. Yes, we are to love our God, but love does not apply to keep My commandments.

If we love God would we worship other gods. No
If we love God would we bow to idols. No
If we love God would we vain His holy name. No
If we love God would we forget and profane His holy Sabbath day. No

If we love our fellow man would we not honor our mother or father. No
If we love our fellow man would we commit murder. No
If we love our fellow man would we commit adultery. No
If we love our fellow man would we steal. No
If we love our fellow man would we lie. No
If we love our fellow man would we covet. No

We is not part of the equation SB. If the Israelites loved........they would not........

Love is not just a feeling that goes undefined in scripture. Love fulfills the Ten Commandments Rom 13:9 1 John 5:2-3 John 15:10 breaking the least of them Mat 5:19 is not showing love to God or to man.

It should have been love that caused the Israelites to obey the 10. Actually, it could have rightly been duty that prompted the Israelites to keep them.

The ministry of death is depending on our own righteousness and our own laws, instead of walking with God's law in our heart, the same way Jesus walked, keeping all of the commandments, including the Sabbath, teaching not to break the least of these commandments and is our example to follow.


All gets sorted out soon enough.

The 1`0 commandments renamed the Ministry of death happened because Israel failed to keep the commands. Even if they could have kept them salvation does not come from our own righteousness, it is a gift from God. Sabbath keeping has nothing to do with our salvation. If it did no one would be saved.

 

[Bob S]

Yes, he certainly had a way with words, we could get dizzy by his readings if one doesn't take time to carefully understand what he is trying to say, never countermanding God or even himself.

Have you tried asking the Holy Spirit to guide you when reading Paul's writings?

The warnings of misunderstanding Paul are huge 2 Peter 3:16 so if Jesus never taught our interpterion of Paul teachings, best to stick with the example of Jesus- how He lived and what He taught. Jesus will only lead us on the narrow path back to reconciliation.

Jesus lived under the Law, all of it, Do you??? Jesus kept the feast days, do you? Why not? Paul was the one who wrote that we are not under the Law. I guess you understand part of his words.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Have you tried asking the Holy Spirit to guide you when reading Paul's writings?

Of course and the Holy Spirit role is to convict us of sin John 16:8, which is breaking God’s law 1 John 3:4 - any of the Ten Commandments James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30 Rom 7:7. Paul is not teaching us to sin and break God’s law. Nor is the Holy Spirit, nor Jesus.

Jesus lived under the Law, all of it, Do you??? Jesus kept the feast days, do you? Why not? Paul was the one who wrote that we are not under the Law. I guess you understand part of his words.

Had Jesus not lived by the law- He could not be our example to follow Heb 4:15 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22

The feast days were all added after sin. They are not part of the Ten Commandments. The feast days always pointed forward to Christ and were all fulfilled at the Cross in Jesus Christ Heb 10:1-22 2 Cor 5:7. The Sabbath started at Creation before sin Gen 2:1-3 and points us back to our Creator Exo 20:11, something we should never forget, which is why the Sabbath is so important, it shows complete trust in Jesus Christ even if its no longer popular, but we were warned of that Rev 12:17. God’s Ten Commandments are kept by love and faith by His faithful until Jesus comes. Rom 3:31 Mat 5:18-30 Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14

I’m going to leave this as agree to disagree and as stated it gets sorted out soon enough.

Take care.

 

[HIM]

ead the whole article SB and Mr Cotto left out the main part of 2Cor3:6-11. Paul in verse 11 wrote: And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! Transitory means temporary

The word Transitory is not in verse 11. Nor is it derived from the Greek word that is there. Oddly enough I think you know that. So why would you insert a word into a verse that is not there originally?

 

[Bob S]

The word Transitory is not in verse 11. Nor is it derived from the Greek word that is there. Oddly enough I think you know that. So why would you insert a word into a verse that is not there originally?

HUM! Funny some of the translations in English either use the word "transitory or a derivative huh. Some even use "done away". When did you become a Greek scholar who is more knowledgeable than all of the following translations?

KJ21
For if that which is done away with was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
ASV
For if that which passeth away was with glory, much more that which remaineth is in glory.
AMP
For if that [Law] which fades away came with glory, how much more must that [gospel] which remains and is permanent abide in glory and splendor!
AMPC
For if that which was but passing and fading away came with splendor, how much more must that which remains and is permanent abide in glory and splendor!
BRG
For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
CSB
For if what was set aside was glorious, what endures will be even more glorious.
CEB
If the glory that fades away was glorious, how much more glorious is the one that lasts!
CJB
For if there was glory in what faded away, how much more glory must there be in what lasts.
CEV
The Law was given with a glory that faded away. But the glory of the new agreement is much greater, because it will never fade away.
DARBY
For if that annulled [was introduced] with glory, much rather that which abides [subsists] in glory.
DLNT
For if the [ministry of the letter] passing-away was with glory, by much more the [ministry of the Spirit] remaining is in glory.
DRA
For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is in glory.
ERV
If the agreement that was brought to an end came with glory, then the agreement that never ends has much greater glory.
EASY
The old agreement was powerful, but it came to an end. God's new agreement will continue always. So it surely shows the power of God even more!
EHV
Indeed, if what is fading away was glorious, how much more glorious is that which is permanent!
ESV
For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.
ESVUK
For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.
EXB
[L For] If that which ·disappeared [faded; was made ineffective; C the law; v. 7] came with glory, then that which ·continues forever [remains; abides; C the new way through the Spirit] has much greater glory.
GNV
For if that they should be abolished, was glorious, much more shall that which remaineth be glorious.
GW
If that former ministry faded away despite its glory, how much more does that ministry which remains continue to be glorious?
GNT
For if there was glory in that which lasted for a while, how much more glory is there in that which lasts forever!
HCSB
For if what was fading away was glorious, what endures will be even more glorious.
ICB
If that law which disappeared came with glory, then this new way which continues forever has much greater glory.
ISV
For if that which fades away came through glory, how much more does that which is permanent have glory?
PHILLIPS
The administration of the Law which was engraved in stone (and which led in fact to spiritual death) was so magnificent that the Israelites were unable to look unflinchingly at Moses’ face, for it was alight with heavenly splendour. Now if the old administration held such heavenly, even though transitory, splendour, can we not see what a much more glorious thing is the new administration of the Spirit of life? If to administer a system which is to end in condemning men was a splendid task, how infinitely more splendid is it to administer a system which ends in making men good! And while it is true that the former temporary glory has been completely eclipsed by the latter, we do well to remember that is eclipsed simply because the present permanent plan is such a very much more glorious thing than the old.
JUB
For if that which fades away was glorious, much more shall that which remains be glorious.
KJV
For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
AKJV
For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
LSB
For if that which was being brought to an end was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.
LEB
For if what was transitory came with glory, by much more what remains is with glory.
TLB
So if the old system that faded into nothing was full of heavenly glory, the glory of God’s new plan for our salvation is certainly far greater, for it is eternal.
MSG
If the Government of Condemnation was impressive, how about this Government of Affirmation? Bright as that old government was, it would look downright dull alongside this new one. If that makeshift arrangement impressed us, how much more this brightly shining government installed for eternity?
MEV
For if that which fades was glorious, that which remains is much more glorious.
MOUNCE
For if what was fading away came with glory, how much more will that which is permanent be filled with glory.
NOG
If that former ministry faded away despite its glory, how much more does that ministry which remains continue to be glorious?
NABRE
For if what was going to fade was glorious, how much more will what endures be glorious.
NASB
For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.
NASB1995
For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.
NCB
For if what was destined to fade away was glorious, how much greater will be the glory of that which endures!
NCV
If that law which disappeared came with glory, then this new way which continues forever has much greater glory.
NET
For if what was made ineffective came with glory, how much more has what remains come in glory!
NIRV
The glory of the old lasts for only a short time. How much greater is the glory of the new! It will last forever.
NIV
And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
NIVUK
And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
NKJV
For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
NLV
The shining light that came with the Law of Moses soon passed away. But the new way of life is much brighter. It will never pass away.
NLT
So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever!
NMB
So then, if that which is destroyed was glorious, much more will that which remains be glorious.
NRSVA
for if what was set aside came through glory, much more has the permanent come in glory!
NRSVACE
for if what was set aside came through glory, much more has the permanent come in glory!
NRSVCE
for if what was set aside came through glory, much more has the permanent come in glory!
NRSVUE
for if what was set aside came through glory, much more has the permanent come in glory!
NTFE
For if the thing which was to be abolished came with glory, how much more glory will there be for the thing that lasts.
OJB
For if the thing which now is fading away came with kavod (glory), much more has that which remains come in kavod.
RGT
For if that which is abolished was glorious, much more so shall that which remains be glorious.
RSV
For if what faded away came with splendor, what is permanent must have much more splendor.
RSVCE
For if what faded away came with splendor, what is permanent must have much more splendor.
TLV
For if what is passing away is glorious, much more what remains is glorious.
VOICE
If something that fades away possesses glory, how much more intense is the glory of what remains?
WEB
For if that which passes away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.
WE
The one which does not stay alive for ever came first in a great light. Does not the one which does stay alive have a much brighter light?
WYC
and if that that is voided [for why if that that is voided], was by glory, much more that that dwelleth still is in glory.
YLT
for if that which is being made useless [is] through glory, much more that which is remaining [is] in glory.

 

[Bob S]

Of course and the Holy Spirit role is to convict us of sin John 16:8, which is breaking God’s law 1 John 3:4 - any of the Ten Commandments James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30 Rom 7:7. Paul is not teaching us to sin and break God’s law. Nor is the Holy Spirit, nor Jesus.

The fact is that the Sabbath of the old covenant ended at Calvary where the new and better covenant, with better promises, was ratified by Jesus' own blood. There are no commands about keeping days, so, where there is no law there is no sin.

Had Jesus not lived by the law- He could not be our example to follow Heb 4:15 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22

If I am not mistaken Jesus was not "our" example. He came for the Jews and was an example for them. Jesus didn't proselytize gentiles.

The feast days were all added after sin. They are not part of the Ten Commandments.

Oh, so now you are claiming the ten commandments were given to man before Adam and Eve sinned? That is a S T R E T C H. That would mean that the Law of Love found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy also didn't exist. Nice try SB.

I’m going to leave this as agree to disagree and as stated it gets sorted out soon enough.

Take care.

Well, I am glad I was able to catch the errors you made and correct them. Your leaving is probably a good thing.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The fact is that the Sabbath of the old covenant ended at Calvary where the new and better covenant, with better promises, was ratified by Jesus' own blood.

Jesus in His own Words said His people would be keeping the Sabbath 40 years after His death is a fact you seem to be overlooking

Mat 24:20 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.

Another fact- the apostles faithfully kept every Sabbath along with both Jews and Gentiles decades after the Cross Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4 Acts 15:21

Acts 18:4 4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

And the fact according to Jesus- the Sabbath continues for worship for eternity for God's faithful Isa 66:22-23

And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

God's people keep God's commandments until the end of time Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14. The Sabbath is a commandment of God, even in the NT Luke 23:56 Kept throughout the scriptures by everyone we are told to follow- God, Jesus, the apostles and His faithful followers.

There is no thus saith the Lord in all of scripture to not keep the Sabbath commandment. God gave His sanctification Eze 20:12 and blessing Isa 56:1-6 Exo 20:8-11 no man can reverse Num 23:20 because no one is above the Authority of God.

So to claim the Sabbath ended at the Cross is not one that is taught through the scriptures and by Christ's own Testimony.

 

[HIM]

HUM! Funny some of the translations in English either use the word "transitory or a derivative huh. Some even use "done away". When did you become a Greek scholar who is more knowledgeable than all of the following translations?

Oh, so you don't know better. Or is it you are willfully ignoring the fact that transitory means not permanent and katargeo means rendered idle. Something idled is still there just not active. Transitory suggests it is not there. BIG difference.

And if you want to speak of reliability and credentials in respect to me, please post facts that pertain to why the translations are translated thusly rather than that they did. And while you are it, facts from antiquity that show what is being putting forward to you here and the post you responded to are in error.

Facts like how the translators who spoke Kione Greek used katargeo in the LXX to translate the Aramaic word beṭêl in the following verses and NOWHERE else.

בְּטֵל (Aramaic)
beṭêl
BDB Definition:
1) (Peal) to cease
1a) to cease
1b) to make to cease
Part of Speech: verb


Ezra 4:21 And now establish a decree [3 to cease work 2 men 1 for those], so that that city shall not be built up any more!
Ezra 4:23 Then the tribute-gatherer of king Artaxerxes read in the presence of Rehum the master, and Shimshai the scribe, and his fellow-servants. And they went with diligence unto Jerusalem and to Judah, and they caused them to cease work with horses and a force.
Ezra 5:5 But the eyes of God became upon the captivity of Judah, and they did not cause them to cease work until the decree was carried to Darius. And then it was given to the tribute-gatherer concerning this.
Ezra 6:8 And by me was rendered a decree to do through the elders of those Jews to build [2 house 3 of God 1 that], and from the subsistence of the king, of the tribute on the other side of the river, that carefully an expense be given to those men to not cease work!


That should be a big sign. But if that is not enough. Howabout facts like the word is a verb in the present tense and it is a participle. So it is a state of being rendered idle, not rendered idle. With this understood, it shows that over half if not more of the translations you posted are in error.

Or maybe facts like you did not even read all the translations you posted. Or maybe you do not understand what you have read. Why is that being said. Because some of them agree with what is being put to you. However it should be noted that the NET ignored the present tense participle of the word.

YLT
for if that which is being made useless [is] through glory, much more that which is remaining [is] in glory.

NET
For if what was made ineffective came with glory, how much more has what remains come in glory!


Or the fact that most of the translations that you posted don't even agree with one another. I will let you sort that out. But the main one is this here. Why do you think they translated it thusly? Take note what passes away according to them.


NLV
The shining light that came with the Law of Moses soon passed away. But the new way of life is much brighter. It will never pass away.

If I am not mistaken Jesus was not "our" example.

You are

 

[SabbathBlessings]

If I am not mistaken Jesus was not "our" example. He came for the Jews and was an example for them. Jesus didn't proselytize gentiles.

Whoever we obey is who we serve. Rom 6:16

There is only one Salvation

Jesus was everyone’s example to follow, He wants salvation for everyone who accepts His free gift through faith

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

His example is for anyone who abides in Him, which live differently than those who don’t Rev 14:12, following His example because Jesus is THE Way and led by example, our example to follow.1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15

 

[Bob S]

Or the fact that most of the translations that you posted don't even agree with one another. I will let you sort that out. But the main one is this here. Why do you think they translated it thusly? Take note what passes away according to them.






You are

Sure they do. They all indicate that we are not under the ten commandments. Thus we are not subject to the Sabbath command.