Rosie can't understand how Trump was elected

[Fantine]

Those who voted for Trump largely responded to the question, "Do I think my life will be better in four years '...if this goes on?'" and got the answer "No." The Democratic Party forgot that the largest voting segment is still white heterosexual high school graduates, and particularly white men. There was nothing in their platform speaking to that segment.

To be honest, if the "Project 2025" information hadn't surfaced, there would have been a much larger defection of black men from the Democratic Pary.

What about Biden and Harris standing on picket lines with union members, and requiring infrastructure projects work with unions?
Unions brought white heterosexual HS grads firmly into the middle class.

 

[RDKirk]

What about Biden and Harris standing on picket lines with union members, and requiring infrastructure projects work with unions?
Unions brought white heterosexual HS grads firmly into the middle class.

The Democratic party paid lip service to union leadership while disparaging the union members.
It was the same thing as your own "low-information voter" talk.

The Democratic Party is not a party for white heterosexual HS grads, any more than the Republican Party is a party for black people.

If a white heterosexual high school grad, particularly a man, spends much time around Democrats talking politics, he'll figure out fairly quickly that the person they see as their opponent is him.

If a black man spends much time around Republicans talking politics, he'll figure out fairly quickly that the person they see as their opponent is him.

Whatever lip service the parties give otherwise is just lip service.

 

[RDKirk]

Many Americans don't take practicing informed citizenship very seriously. When you have places like Texas banning teaching critical thinking in schools, citizens are ill-equipped to think about important matters in anything but the most trivial ways.

They banned Critical Race Theory. which is not in any way the same thing as critical thinking. In fact, CRT disposes of concepts of "critical thinking" as a tool of the European oppressor.

That was more or less set in motion in the 1960's with the passing of the Civil Rights Act. LBJ is said to have admitted as much privately, but did so anyways. But he knew the powerful pull of racial resentment, also.

No, the Democratic Party even after the Civil Rights Act was still a party where any union member, black or white, could still feel was operating in his interest.

 

[RDKirk]

Who is the core demographic of Democrats?

Judging by their campaign, they appear to think their core demographic is college-educated white women, black women, and LGBTQ.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Judging by their campaign, they appear to think their core demographic is college-educated white women, black women, and LGBTQ.

AND ..Hispanics, Latinos, Muslims, immigrants, black men, and young voters are their demographic. The only demographic they lost were white men and rural white voters.

Rural white voters and blue-collar voters began leaving the Democratic Party after Bill Clinton's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. By the time President Obama and SCOTUS legalized same-sex marriage, most rural voters had moved away from the Democrats. Regardless of future actions by the Democrats, rural voters are unlikely to return to the party.

Instead of focusing on rural white voters, efforts should be directed towards engaging the 20% of Black Men and 40% of Hispanic voters who supported President Trump.

 

[RDKirk]

AND ..Hispanics, Latinos, Muslims, immigrants, black men, and young voters are their demographic. The only demographic they lost were white men and rural white voters.

My first point is that white high school graduates is a demographic they shunned, but didn't realize they couldn't afford to lose...those were the swing states. I'll point out that they also lost most white women...most white women voted for Trump. Basically: They lost most white people. The only white people they retained, if we want to categorize those people, were probably college-educated whites...who are a minority of whites.

A significant minority of black men voted for Trump, and it would have been more if Project 2025 had not surfaced. A huge proportion of black men do not believe the Democratic Party is concerned with their interests, but Project 2025 was sufficiently scary to provoke black men to vote against it. If not for Project 2025, you might have seen as much as 40-50% of the black male vote either go to Trump or stay home.

And we did see huge proportions of Latinos, Muslims, immigrants, black men, and young voters go Republican, far more than should have been expected. Those, again, were the swing states.

Rural white voters and blue-collar voters began leaving the Democratic Party after Bill Clinton's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. By the time President Obama and SCOTUS legalized same-sex marriage, most rural voters had moved away from the Democrats. Regardless of future actions by the Democrats, rural voters are unlikely to return to the party.

Instead of focusing on rural white voters, efforts should be directed towards engaging the 20% of Black Men and 40% of Hispanic voters who supported President Trump.

The 20% of black men voting for Trump represent an inconsequential proportion of the vote. Black men represent only 5% of the national vote, so 20% of that represents only 1% of the national vote. But it does throw a warning flag that the Democratic Party is disaffecting people who should be solidly in their camp. If 20% of black men are turning away from the party, then, yeah, that's 40% of Latino voters, and then all non-college whites (who form the largest block). And we see the trend of young college educated voters, especially young men, turning Republican.

 

[ozso]

You do know that Harris outraised Trump by nearly 5-to-1, right?

I recall there was bragging about how much more money Harris was getting.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

My first point is that white high school graduates is a demographic they shunned, but didn't realize they couldn't afford to lose...those were the swing states. I'll point out that they also lost most white women...most white women voted for Trump. Basically: They lost most white people. The only white people they retained, if we want to categorize those people, were probably college-educated whites...who are a minority of whites.

A significant minority of black men voted for Trump, and it would have been more if Project 2025 had not surfaced. A huge proportion of black men do not believe the Democratic Party is concerned with their interests, but Project 2025 was sufficiently scary to provoke black men to vote against it. If not for Project 2025, you might have seen as much as 40-50% of the black male vote either go to Trump or stay home.

And we did see huge proportions of Latinos, Muslims, immigrants, black men, and young voters go Republican, far more than should have been expected. Those, again, were the swing states.



The 20% of black men voting for Trump represent an inconsequential proportion of the vote. Black men represent only 5% of the national vote, so 20% of that represents only 1% of the national vote. But it does throw a warning flag that the Democratic Party is disaffecting people who should be solidly in their camp. If 20% of black men are turning away from the party, then, yeah, that's 40% of Latino voters, and then all non-college whites (who form the largest block). And we see the trend of young college educated voters, especially young men, turning Republican.

Here are some facts

1990 collage graduate in US 25%
2024 College graduate in US 37.7%

1990 Hispanic population in USA 22.4 million
2024 Hispanic population in USA 44 million

1990 immigrants in USA 19.8 million
2024 immigrants in USA 48 million

2010 White Population in USA 196.8 million
2020 White Population in USA 191.7 million


In the last 40 years, a significant percentage of various demographic groups voted for Democrats: 80% African American, 60% to 70% Hispanic, 80% Jewish American, 80% immigrants, 60% college graduates, and 55% to 60% youth voters. Meanwhile, Democrats have continued to lose support among non-college graduate white voters in both urban and rural areas.

Democrats have been consistently losing white voters; however, the demographic trends they have attracted over the past 40 years are in their favor. By the 2036 election, there may not be enough non-college graduate white voters to secure a national election victory.

We should not rely on a single election result, such as the one in 2024, to assume that there has been a change in trend. One election result does not constitute a trend or realignment. Additionally, your or today's media description of these trends is not quite accurate. Terms such as "huge" or "significant" are used to describe Hispanic or African-American voters who voted for Republicans in 2024. However, it should be noted that 20% is not considered huge, whereas 80% is. For instance, 80% of Black men voted for Democrats, which is substantial. Similarly, 40% is not significant, but 60% is. In 2024, 60% of Hispanic voters supported Democrats.


Having said all that, both political parties face significant issues with their ideologies and policies. Republicans seem to want to revert America to the 1950s, holding on to a nostalgic belief that returning to that era will lead to simplicity and great prosperity. Conversely, some Democratic policies propose changes that the country may not be prepared to embrace. Both parties require adjustments. Republicans need to align themselves with the realities of 2025 and revise some of their outdated ideologies. Democrats also need to modify certain progressive ideas to make them acceptable to the majority of Americans, whether they are rural white Americans, urban Hispanic or Black individuals, or Muslim women.

 

[durangodawood]

Rosie must be pretty disconnected to not appreciate how credulous Americans have become.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

As superficial as it's going to sound, I think some people are really overthinking it lol.

If Rosie (the person who went on social media to brag about getting a tattoo to remind herself to use her child's preferred pronouns) is asking the question of how so many people voted for Trump, the answer is:

"Well, Rosie, it's because those voters find people of your ideological ilk to be obnoxious and annoying, and they knew which team has been emboldening and empowering you guys, so they were voting against you"

To which I'd probably get some sort of reply like "well, achhkktually, using gendered language like 'you guys' is quite offensive because blah blah blah, something about the patriarchy"

To which I'd respond "you see, there's that obnoxious/annoying thing I was referring to...yeah I'd cut back on that a bit"


This isn't new for Rosie, she was one of the people who tried to keep the 2000 election recounts going, was a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, and was so obnoxious that she got kicked off The View. -- which is saying something.

 

[Pommer]

I admire the optimism that there’ll be elections in the future.

 

[RDKirk]

Here are some facts

1990 collage graduate in US 25%
2024 College graduate in US 37.7%

1990 Hispanic population in USA 22.4 million
2024 Hispanic population in USA 44 million

1990 immigrants in USA 19.8 million
2024 immigrants in USA 48 million

2010 White Population in USA 196.8 million
2020 White Population in USA 191.7 million


In the last 40 years, a significant percentage of various demographic groups voted for Democrats: 80% African American, 60% to 70% Hispanic, 80% Jewish American, 80% immigrants, 60% college graduates, and 55% to 60% youth voters. Meanwhile, Democrats have continued to lose support among non-college graduate white voters in both urban and rural areas.

Democrats have been consistently losing white voters; however, the demographic trends they have attracted over the past 40 years are in their favor. By the 2036 election, there may not be enough non-college graduate white voters to secure a national election victory.

We should not rely on a single election result, such as the one in 2024, to assume that there has been a change in trend. One election result does not constitute a trend or realignment. Additionally, your or today's media description of these trends is not quite accurate. Terms such as "huge" or "significant" are used to describe Hispanic or African-American voters who voted for Republicans in 2024. However, it should be noted that 20% is not considered huge, whereas 80% is. For instance, 80% of Black men voted for Democrats, which is substantial. Similarly, 40% is not significant, but 60% is. In 2024, 60% of Hispanic voters supported Democrats.


Having said all that, both political parties face significant issues with their ideologies and policies. Republicans seem to want to revert America to the 1950s, holding on to a nostalgic belief that returning to that era will lead to simplicity and great prosperity. Conversely, some Democratic policies propose changes that the country may not be prepared to embrace. Both parties require adjustments. Republicans need to align themselves with the realities of 2025 and revise some of their outdated ideologies. Democrats also need to modify certain progressive ideas to make them acceptable to the majority of Americans, whether they are rural white Americans, urban Hispanic or Black individuals, or Muslim women.

"By the 2036 election, there may not be enough non-college graduate white voters to secure a national election victory."

Notice, this is not 2036 yet.

Also, there is a curious social phenomenon: People often become more conservative when they get something to conserve. So, don't be too confident that non-white immigrants, as they gain a foothold and gain success in the US, will always be liberal in either social or economic matters.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

I'll suggest that Harris and Biden represented perversionist, antitraditionalist factions very strongly, and that Trump and his followers managed to motivate enough of the rest, after thirty years of so-called "conservativist" radio primed the pump.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

"By the 2036 election, there may not be enough non-college graduate white voters to secure a national election victory."

Notice, this is not 2036 yet.

Also, there is a curious social phenomenon: People often become more conservative when they get something to conserve. So, don't be too confident that non-white immigrants, as they gain a foothold and gain success in the US, will always be liberal in either social or economic matters.

• 65% of college-educated individuals vote Democrat.
• 80% of immigrants vote Democrat.
• 80% of Jewish Americans vote Democrat.
• 80% of African Americans vote Democrat.
• 80% of non-Christian religious groups vote Democrat.
• 55% of young voters vote Democrat.
• 60% Hispanic voters vote for Democrats
• 
  
• And your “hope” that Republicans will gain more votes in the future as second and third-generation immigrants become wealthy?

Well here is how wealthy people in America who has something to conserve are voting

Biden-voting counties equal 70% of America's economy. What does this mean for the nation's political-economic divide?

This economic rift that persists in dividing the nation is a problem because it underscores the near-certainty of both continued clashes between the political parties and continued alienation and misunderstandings.

www.brookings.edu

https://www.axios.com/2023/04/12/house-democrats-winning-wealthier-districts-middle-class-gop

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/221098-richest-house-districts-skew-blue/

 

[FireDragon76]

They banned Critical Race Theory. which is not in any way the same thing as critical thinking. In fact, CRT disposes of concepts of "critical thinking" as a tool of the European oppressor.

They banned both.

Some fundamentalist Christians are opposed to teaching critical thinking in schools, because it might lead people to question presumed religious authority. This has become especially an issue since the internet became ubiquitous and more young people question the religious beliefs and values they were raised with.

Texas GOP officially comes out against critical thinking

Who needs book larnin': The Texas GOP’s platform is explicitly opposed to critical thinking skills in education.

grist.org

 

[FireDragon76]

I'll suggest that Harris and Biden represented perversionist, antitraditionalist factions very strongly,

Not even close.

Both ran as centrists more or less.

There are people much more critical than they are of traditionalism. If you think Harris or Trump are "perversionist", you must be holding up some kind of theocratic dystopia as the model.

 

[RDKirk]

They banned both.

Read deeper.

I've been thinking a lot more critically of clickbait article headlines.

 

[RDKirk]

• 65% of college-educated individuals vote Democrat.
• 80% of immigrants vote Democrat.
• 80% of Jewish Americans vote Democrat.
• 80% of African Americans vote Democrat.
• 80% of non-Christian religious groups vote Democrat.
• 55% of young voters vote Democrat.
• 60% Hispanic voters vote for Democrats
• 
  
• And your “hope” that Republicans will gain more votes in the future as second and third-generation immigrants become wealthy?

Well here is how wealthy people in America who has something to conserve are voting

Did you notice that Harris lost?

I said--and you've agreed--that white heterosexual non-college graduates still comprise the largest voting block, and that the Democrats have lost that block.

You've acknowledged that will be true until the 2036 election.

What are we debating here?

 

[probinson]

Some fundamentalist Christians are opposed to teaching critical thinking in schools, because it might lead people to question presumed religious authority.

For the second time...

Texas didn't ban teaching "critical thinking".

Casting the nomination of Ted Cruz for U.S. Senate as a harbinger of doom, Collins wrote that Texas "does tend to treasure the extreme" in politics, saying, "The current Republican state platform calls for an end to the teaching of ‘critical thinking’ in public schools."​

...​

Munisteri told KVUE, "The platform plank is against a specific type of teaching called 'outcome-based education.'​

"The reason why critical thinking is mentioned is some places try to disguise the program of outcome-based education and just re-label it as 'critical thinking.' "​

That’s supported by the wording in the platform.​

Gail Collins says Texas GOP platform calls for schools to stop teaching “critical thinking”

New York Times columnist Gail Collins’ latest book, "As Texas Goes," takes the state to task for, well, being Texas. And

www.politifact.com

​

​

It is telling that 13 YEARS later, there are still people propagating this misinformation. Ironically, it is the people concerned about "critical thinking" that are the purveyors of this misinformation.

 

[RDKirk]

For the second time...

Texas didn't ban teaching "critical thinking".

Casting the nomination of Ted Cruz for U.S. Senate as a harbinger of doom, Collins wrote that Texas "does tend to treasure the extreme" in politics, saying, "The current Republican state platform calls for an end to the teaching of ‘critical thinking’ in public schools."​

...​

Munisteri told KVUE, "The platform plank is against a specific type of teaching called 'outcome-based education.'​

"The reason why critical thinking is mentioned is some places try to disguise the program of outcome-based education and just re-label it as 'critical thinking.' "​

That’s supported by the wording in the platform.​

Gail Collins says Texas GOP platform calls for schools to stop teaching “critical thinking”

New York Times columnist Gail Collins’ latest book, "As Texas Goes," takes the state to task for, well, being Texas. And

www.politifact.com

​

​

It is telling that 13 YEARS later, there are still people propagating this misinformation. Ironically, it is the people concerned about "critical thinking" that are the purveyors of this misinformation.

This like one headline I saw that said Trump was eliminating blacks from the US Marine Corps. That turned out to be the current Marine Corps shaving policy. The Marine Corps is just being steadfast in not allowing beards...which has been its policy all along. In fact, the current Marine Corps policy is what the US Air Force shaving policy had been when I enlisted and while Chappy James was a 4-star general (and it didn't remove us from the service).

Or the headline that barbers were being banned from giving "trans" haircuts. That turns out to be a bill in the Arkansas legislature permitting parents to sue teachers or anyone who "assists" in minors gender transitions without parental permission.

Another is the case of Trump "bringing back segregation," which is Trump's EO that will suspend current EEOC rules against doing federal business with companies that appear to be racially segregated. While I've got a great deal of problem with that action, it's not "bringing back segregation" to the nation in the broad context that all the hubbub asserts.