Romans 11:26 - 'all Israel' is the 'fullness of the Gentiles'

[BABerean2]

You do believe Matthew 24 don't you? Matthew 25 as well.

I see Israel all over that, don't you?

Christ coming? Israel?

See anything there?

Add Romans 11

The claim that the book of Matthew is written to the Jews is a true statement.

The claim that the book of Matthew is not written to the Church is a false statement.

It was written to the first Christians, who were Jewish.

The Great Commission is at the end of the book and is clearly written for the Church.

.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

The claim that the book of Matthew is written to the Jews is a true statement.

The claim that the book of Matthew is not written to the Church is a false statement.

It was written to the first Christians, who were Jewish.

The Great Commission is at the end of the book and is clearly written for the Church.

.

I didn't claim either. I asked if the poster could see Israel and the coming of Christ in Matthew 24.

 

[Danoh]

I didn't claim either. I asked if the poster could see Israel and the coming of Christ in Matthew 24.

Forgive them; their whole system is one of reading into another's words.

It'd be real interesting if any of them were to lay out what principles they study things out by.

I once asked a friend of mine. He laid out some three or four key principles - all based on reading into things.

I love the guy to pieces. But, he is simply unable now, to not read into things... really sad...

Its what happens when such continue down that road... by the time light comes along it runs smack into - "became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened" Rom. 2:21.

A reprobate mind - one no longer able to receive reproof...

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Forgive them; their whole system is one of reading into another's words.

It'd be real interesting if any of them were to lay out what principles they study things out by.

I once asked a friend of mine. He laid out some three or four key principles - all based on reading into things.

I love the guy to pieces. But, he is simply unable now, to not read into things... really sad...

Its what happens when such continue down that road... by the time light comes along it runs smack into - "became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened" Rom. 2:21.

A reprobate mind - one no longer able to receive reproof...

I don't think it is crazy to see the coming of Christ in Matthew's gospel and how that does relate to Israel. I think that it is crazy to think that these are things in the past.

Is that ok?

 

[Straightshot]

Matthew 24 is not written to the church of today .... none of it

The setting, location, and a returned remnant of Israel during the coming 70th week is the subject of the entire passage .... and all of the prophets and Revelation concur

There is no mention of the Gentile church in Matthew 24 .... all of the events listed are 70th week events ..... the time of Jacob's trouble still pending

Salvation of the church of both a few of Israel in the first century and then the Gentile adds is for matters salvation only only ..... no national distinction

The Lord is speaking to Israel as a national people ..... not the church, and related to a future time when Israel is in the land

Not one of the events recorded in the chapter pertains to the church .... and He does not tell His early followers the dating of the beginning of the future 70th week .... this He has not revealed to anyone even to this very day

He speaks to them as if they would be present and He speak to them as members of the nation of Israel .... His message is to Israel

Many have struggled with the mixing of Israel and the Gentile Christian in Matthew 24 and this does nothing but cause confusion and misleading error

Today's church will not be on the earth during the coming 70th week decreed for Israel which is the same time frame as the Lord's coming hour of trial and judgment upon an unbelieving world .... the tribulation of Revelation's unfolding

The Lord is looking much longer in the passage to the time of the end of this present age still pending

.... and there still is not one stone standing of the second temple and related buildings

And there will not be during the coming 70th week .... there will be no temple of the Lord's on the mount during the period [Revelation 11:2] ... the temple that will be there is the temple of the little horn's "god"
that he will grandstand in .... it is on the mount today .... the Muslim Dome of the Rock

The Lord's next temple will not be built until after the days of the tribulation period [Ezekiel 40-48]

The Lord speaks of the same period in Luke 21:20-36 in the same way

And He says that all of the events listed all taken "together" must be a part of the drama ..... obviously 70 AD was not the time He speaks of

And there is no record of any resurrection for those of Israel who will be saved as mortals at the end of the period [the elect of Israel .... not of today's church] .... these will be Israelites who turn to their Messiah and King during the 70th week, and they will enter and populate His millennial kingdom as mortals [Zechariah 13:8-9; Romans 11:25-36]

And this kingdom will be restored to Israel [Isaiah 11; 27:12-13; Matthew 24:29-31; Acts 1:6-7]

 

[BABerean2]

Matthew 24 is not written to the church of today .... none of it

The setting, location, and a returned remnant of Israel during the coming 70th week is the subject of the entire passage .... and all of the prophets and Revelation concur

There is no mention of the Gentile church in Matthew 24 .... all of the events listed are 70th week events ..... the time of Jacob's trouble still pending

Salvation of the church of both a few of Israel in the first century and then the Gentile adds is for matters salvation only only ..... no national distinction

The Lord is speaking to Israel as a national people ..... not the church, and related to a future time when Israel is in the land

Not one of the events recorded in the chapter pertains to the church .... and He does not tell His early followers the dating of the beginning of the future 70th week .... this He has not revealed to anyone even to this very day

He speaks to them as if they would be present and He speak to them as members of the nation of Israel .... His message is to Israel

Many have struggled with the mixing of Israel and the Gentile Christian in Matthew 24 and this does nothing but cause confusion and misleading error

Today's church will not be on the earth during the coming 70th week decreed for Israel which is the same time frame as the Lord's coming hour of trial and judgment upon an unbelieving world .... the tribulation of Revelation's unfolding

The Lord is looking much longer in the passage to the time of the end of this present age still pending

.... and there still is not one stone standing of the second temple and related buildings

And there will not be during the coming 70th week

The Lord speaks of the same period in Luke 21:20-36 in the same way

And He says that all of the events listed all taken "together" must be a part of the drama ..... obviously 70 AD was not the time He speaks of

Thanks for proving my point by showing the Dispensational viewpoint.
You have shown John Nelson Darby's doctrine perfectly.

.

 

[Straightshot]

Actually the biblical view .... Darby got some of the details right

However it does no make any difference whether he did or not .... or anyone else for that matter

The Lord's view is the significant one .... recorded long before Darby's day

And most likely there have been many along the way over the last 2000 years who discovered the truth directly form the Lord's Word .... Darby, or no Darby .... those who did not write about or discuss the same in the public eye

I have been in the scriptures for over 35 years and have never been impressed with Darby .... he was really not that astute in understanding the Bible .... neither did he have the hindsight that one can have today

 

[random person]

Matthew 24 is not written to the church of today .... none of it

The setting, location, and a returned remnant of Israel during the coming 70th week is the subject of the entire passage .... and all of the prophets and Revelation concur

There is no mention of the Gentile church in Matthew 24 .... all of the events listed are 70th week events ..... the time of Jacob's trouble still pending

Salvation of the church of both a few of Israel in the first century and then the Gentile adds is for matters salvation only only ..... no national distinction

The Lord is speaking to Israel as a national people ..... not the church, and related to a future time when Israel is in the land

Not one of the events recorded in the chapter pertains to the church .... and He does not tell His early followers the dating of the beginning of the future 70th week .... this He has not revealed to anyone even to this very day

He speaks to them as if they would be present and He speak to them as members of the nation of Israel .... His message is to Israel

Many have struggled with the mixing of Israel and the Gentile Christian in Matthew 24 and this does nothing but cause confusion and misleading error

Today's church will not be on the earth during the coming 70th week decreed for Israel which is the same time frame as the Lord's coming hour of trial and judgment upon an unbelieving world .... the tribulation of Revelation's unfolding

The Lord is looking much longer in the passage to the time of the end of this present age still pending

.... and there still is not one stone standing of the second temple and related buildings

And there will not be during the coming 70th week .... there will be no temple of the Lord's on the mount during the period [Revelation 11:2] ... the temple that will be there is the temple of the little horn's "god"
that he will grandstand in .... it is on the mount today .... the Muslim Dome of the Rock

The Lord's next temple will not be built until after the days of the tribulation period [Ezekiel 40-48]

The Lord speaks of the same period in Luke 21:20-36 in the same way

And He says that all of the events listed all taken "together" must be a part of the drama ..... obviously 70 AD was not the time He speaks of

And there is no record of any resurrection for those of Israel who will be saved as mortals at the end of the period [the elect of Israel .... not of today's church] .... these will be Israelites who turn to their Messiah and King during the 70th week, and they will enter and populate His millennial kingdom as mortals [Zechariah 13:8-9; Romans 11:25-36]

And this kingdom will be restored to Israel [Isaiah 11; 27:12-13; Matthew 24:29-31; Acts 1:6-7]

Matthew 24 was already fulfilled in A.D. 70. All of it. The elect are the Jews that accepted Christ and escaped his wrath in A.D. 70. They are the symbolic 244,000 First Fruits that fled from Jerusalem and thus fled its destruction and their deaths. Please note it says first fruits not last fruits. The Gospel was preached first to the Jews, that is the first fruits harvest that begun in Jerusalem in the 1st Century after the Day of Pentecost. The FIRST fruits have already been harvested and saved from Israel's judgment.

The resurrection is a motiff for salvation. Christ is the only body that was promised not to see decay. We pass from death unto life.

 

[Danoh]

Actually the biblical view .... Darby got some of the details right

However it does no make any difference whether he did or not .... or anyone else for that matter

The Lord's view is the significant one .... recorded long before Darby's day

And most likely there have been many along the way over the last 2000 years who discovered the truth directly form the Lord's Word .... Darby, or no Darby .... those who did not write about or discuss the same in the public eye

I have been in the scriptures for over 35 years and have never been impressed with Darby .... he was really not that astute in understanding the Bible .... neither did he have the hindsight that one can have today

Lol, he's just another chemist who's conclusions would not be accepted by his own profession for his having read into things, in contrast to having examined first, their properties, how they interact with one another and so on, and that, based on how the science of chemistry came into being to begin, as well as how it continues to be refined - objective, rather preconceived bias unexamined in accordance with equally objective principles for doing so.

Its what happens when one gets one's "map" of "the terrain" from "books about" and "videos about," buys into same as "sound" because "well, it makes sense to me..." given the absence of critical, finer, often barely even noticeable details, which, had they been considered might have resulted in a very different "map" of said "terrain."

Said off-base "map" is then what all is viewed from.

Reminds me of a story related by an FBI agent undercover in an Organized Crime Family. He keeps telling his handlers that the "map" they have of that "family's" organizational structure is off but they keep acting on said map, almost getting the guy killed...

That is what these "ahem, experts in the battle against Dispensationalism" remind me of - the leader behind that tragedy the following words points their finger at...

'Forward, the Light Brigade!'
Was there a man dismay'd ?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Some one had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do & die,
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

There you have the type of leadership behind our self-prophesied, "books based" both prior books, as well as more and more "books about" - that our would be saviors from the error their "books based" reasoning "just knows" is Dispensationalism.

And yet, they continue to wonder why their willful arrogance in its ignorance is held in so low a regard by the soldier out there in the trenches of Genesis through Revelation over any "book about."

 

[Straightshot]

Some people draw on false teaching rather than doing diligence themselves ... the quick fix way is off of the road an into the ditch Danoh

 

[Straightshot]

"Matthew 24 was already fulfilled in A.D. 70. All of it."


Actually none of it .... neither Luke 21:20-36

Impossible

Preterism is a religion for the dreamers who make up stories to serve themselves

 

[Danoh]

"Matthew 24 was already fulfilled in A.D. 70. All of it."


Actually none of it .... neither Luke 21:20-36

Impossible

Preterism is a religion for the dreamers who make up stories to serve themselves

You're pronouncing it "wrong" - actually, its Pre-text-chur-ism, lol

 

[ThatTrueLight]

All Israel is not the fulness of the Gentiles. The OP is wrong.

Paul is using the fulness of the Gentiles within the context of the Lord building His Church from every nation and tongue, while Israel is blinded in part.

 

[Straightshot]

"You're pronouncing it "wrong" - actually, its Pre-text-chur-ism, lol"


.... or maybe a pre-adventure into the dark past with no return for replacement

 

[Straightshot]

"Paul is using the fulness of the Gentiles within the context of the Lord building His Church from every nation and tongue, while Israel is blinded in part"


Precisely

 

[BABerean2]

"Matthew 24 was already fulfilled in A.D. 70. All of it."


Actually none of it .... neither Luke 21:20-36
Impossible

Preterism is a religion for the dreamers who make up stories to serve themselves

You may want to spend a little time reading a history book.

The account given by the Jewish historian Josephus would be a good place for you to start.

He was there at the time it happened.

I believe you are the first on this forum to say that Luke 21:24 never happened.


Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.


.

 

[Notrash]

"Fullness" of the individuals in the natiins is the same spiritual freedom and filling that is earlier in the chapter.

"Some of the jews of 30-60 AD had believed, but it was prophecied in deut 32:19-21 (rom 10:19-21) that some of the last generation of the mosaic covt would be made jelous towards God by a people whom the jews considered not a people of God (gentiles).

Thus, part of Israel had remained hardened that they might be provoked to faith through emulation
and jelousy of the fullness of God which they witnessed of the people in the nations.

Those who had not recieved mercy soley by faith couldnow in 60 AD recieve mercy through the testimony of joy, peace and fullness they would encounter among the believing people of the nations.

The filling of the people of the nations was at that time in 60 AD a continually occurring past happening. That's the implications of the greek tenses involved.
..

 

[Straightshot]

"The account given by the Jewish historian Josephus would be a good place for you to start."


I have the book and have read it

Josephus was a non-believing Jew .... so why would anybody think that his writings were inspired by Jesus Christ?

The fact is he was not inspired by the Lord in any way

Much of his news reporting did not include the facts and He added much speculation .... no one should exchange the inspired scriptures of the Bible for what Josephus reported

The Lord's Word gives a very different picture and trumps Josephus hands down

Adding the secular ideas of unregenerate men is not a good thing to do

 

[Interplanner]

How is Josephus different from "no stone will be left on another"? From "when you (those actually hearing this first hand) see Jerusalem surrounded by armies..."?

There are two places where Josephus acknowledged that Dan 8-9 had come to pass and why it had and when. I don't know what other details would matter.

In 1805, when Thomas Payne wrote the first violently skeptical treatment of Christianity in English, Pastor Peter Holford toured England with his presentation on how the one substantial historian of the time of Christ (and also a priest) verified everything Christ said about the DofJ. This 'stopped the bleeding' caused by Payne for at least a generation.

 

[Straightshot]

I think You read too much stuff from other spectators who do not understand what they think they understand

And where in scripture is Josephus or Payne or Holford?

My advice .... stick with the prophets and the apostles