• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • Christian Forums is looking to bring on new moderators to the CF Staff Team! If you have been an active member of CF for at least three months with 200 posts during that time, you're eligible to apply! This is a great way to give back to CF and keep the forums running smoothly! If you're interested, you can submit your application here!

Roberts Liardon

Status
Not open for further replies.

KingZzub

Blessed to Be A Blessing
Dec 23, 2005
14,754
893
48
Dagenham
Visit site
✟19,483.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Conservative
WoF preacher, brought up under the ministry of Billy Joe Daugherty. Read some of his books and I quite like them.

Coming to London in a few weeks. Been invited to go hear him.

Been told that he had a homosexual affair, and is now openly homosexual and preaches in homosexual churches.

The church he is going to is a traditional church.

Rather confused really.

Any of my American friends know (of) the man? What is he like NOW?

Cheers,
|ZZ|
 
Jun 8, 2006
1,367
134
✟17,207.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Christina M said:
I loved his book, God's Generals :thumbsup: I have read it several times.

I heard about the homosexual affair, but what I heard is that he repented and took a time-out. But, I don't know more than that.

Same here. Enjoyed the videos version of God's Generals.
 
Upvote 0
C

Christina M

Guest
DiscipleWhomJesusLoves said:
Same here. Enjoyed the videos version of God's Generals.

I didn't see the video version..
but what I liked about the book:

I told God "Lord, what is sooooo prevalent throughout this book is that everyone who is listed as a general for You was so very very humanly flawed."

It gives me hope.

So many had terrible personal lives......... divorces, alcoholism. sickness, adultery, even mysterious kidnappings...... and yet they were sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo mightily used of God. :kiss:
 
Upvote 0
Aug 12, 2006
1,343
97
51
✟24,595.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Zzub said:
WoF preacher, brought up under the ministry of Billy Joe Daugherty. Read some of his books and I quite like them.

Coming to London in a few weeks. Been invited to go hear him.

Been told that he had a homosexual affair, and is now openly homosexual and preaches in homosexual churches.

The church he is going to is a traditional church.

Rather confused really.

Any of my American friends know (of) the man? What is he like NOW?

Cheers,
|ZZ|
I concur. He did have the affair, but I have no idea as to whether he has gone straight or not.
 
Upvote 0

J4Jesus

MY HEART BELONGS TO JESUS
Oct 22, 2005
28,668
2,207
✟61,760.00
Faith
Word of Faith
I can only say what I know first hand.

I hear a tape of his many years ago, saw him on TV several times and liked him.

Years later I saw him in person and he had bad problems with his attitude. I prayed for him. Later I wondered if I should go see him. I thought surely he had repented and grown up. It was so bad I felt like leaving. I was very disappointed in him.

Then I heard all this stuff but you can't always believe alot of what the media says.
 
Upvote 0

CindyisHis

I am my Beloved's and He is mine.
Jun 28, 2006
18,946
4,074
65
seated in heavenly places with Christ Jesus
✟52,098.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
All I know about him is that he is responsible for getting a book reprinted by Smith Wigglesworth and wrote the forward in it, or whatever you call it the preface, what-have-you.
 
Upvote 0

Diatheke

Veteran
Aug 2, 2006
1,267
135
56
Nebraska
Visit site
✟17,131.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Here is an article I found in an old Charisma magazine.

It definately happened but as far I can tell he is not a gay activist and does not preach in gay churches but I'm just going by what I found on the web.

I get emails from his ministry all the time since I've ordered books but I hardly ever read them and to honest I've never even heard about this until today.

Charisma Magazine -- March, 2002javascript:window.close()


Most Students, Church Members Defend Liardon After Confession
The pastor-evangelist's church and school are trying to survive after he admitted to a moral failure in December
Leaders of Embassy Christian Center scrambled to hold together their Irvine, Calif., charismatic church, an affiliated Bible school and other related ministries after founder and senior pastor Roberts Liardon's mid-December disclosure of his short-term homosexual relationship with the church's youth minister, John Carrette Jr.

About one-fifth of the church members, 37 of the 180 Spirit Life Bible College students and at least four Roberts Liardon Ministries missionaries departed during the first two weeks after the liaison was disclosed.
Calls for restoration have been hampered by charges of betrayal, accusations of spurned counsel and a possible lawsuit initiated by former Bible school students seeking to recoup unused tuition payments.
"We have gone through something here that has ripped people apart," Larry Black told about 650 worshipers who gathered at Embassy for a Jan. 6 Sunday morning service. "The enemy is at work. He wants to destroy the leadership, the works of God. This is not just a test for the leadership. This is a test for the people of God," Black said.
Black, a minister from Bakersfield, Calif., is filling the pulpit while Liardon, 34, takes a hiatus of at least three months to recover from health problems and to seek counseling from a group of nationally recognized pastors.
In a statement, Liardon told Charisma: "I have voluntarily taken a leave of absence from the ministry for at least three months and have placed myself under pastoral and professional counseling with a team of ministers headed by Charles Nieman and Trevor Yaxley." Nieman is pastor of Abundant Living Faith Center in El Paso, Texas. Yaxley is based in New Zealand.
"Roberts Liardon is trying to do the right thing," said Liardon's spokesperson, Lawrence Swicegood of A. Larry Ross and Associates, a public relations agency whose media specializations include "reputation management."
"He wants forgiveness," Swicegood said. "He is spending an enormous amount of time in prayer, studying the Bible and [undergoing] counseling, seeking how he can get this horrible thing behind him."
Yaxley, who is providing pastoral accountability, said Liardon is responding well to the process of restoration.
"I'm encouraged. I think Roberts is on his way back," Yaxley said. "He is making good, positive steps. He is not hiding. He is transparent." Yaxley said he plans to make periodic trips to California from his office in Auckland to encourage Liardon.
A timetable has not been set for Liardon's return to ministry, but Black declared to the Embassy congregation that it will happen in God's time and that Liardon and the ministry were yet to see their greatest days.
"It will be a minimum of three months," Swicegood said of Liardon's sabbatical. "At that point the professional counselors will assess how the treatment [is going] and re-evaluate. He [Liardon] is committed to spend-ing the time to make sure he is right with God."
Liardon has never been married. This was his only homosexual encounter, Swicegood said.
As many as 120 former Embassy members now attend California Victory Church in Newport Beach, a nearby congregation started in October by Canadian church-planting leaders George and Hazel Hill.
"We do not know Roberts Liardon and are not connected with his ministry. We are just dealing with the fallout," George Hill said. "A lot of people [who have left] were leaders. A lot of them feel betrayed. You break trust like that, and it is hard to rebuild."
Swicegood said the inappropriate sexual behavior between Liardon and Carrette began in September. In November, Liardon and Carrette received advice from an undisclosed professional counselor and from Les Bowling, pastor of Eagle Rock, a church in Pickerington, Ohio.
Bowling, a longtime Liardon associate, laid out specific steps for Liardon and Carrette that involved removing themselves from ministry, receiving further counsel and resolving other issues, Swicegood said.
Bowling is no longer counseling Liardon. Carrette, the son of Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship International Executive Vice President John Carrette Sr., has resigned from Embassy. He is currently living in Guatemala and could not be reached for comment.
Many people have been devastated by the recent events at Embassy. Daniel Harbour, 45, said he and his wife and five children attended the church for five years. Two of their children are Spirit Life graduates.
"We do not have any problems with Embassy or pastor Liardon," Harbour said. "I pray for pastor every day. But until both sides step up to the plate, there is no reconciliation."
Overseas missionaries apparently received conflicting information about ministry problems soon after Liardon's announcement. "We knew something was up, but we never expected this to happen," said a missionary who has since left the organization. Sixteen other missionaries, including one base leader, have left the field. A ministry spokesperson acknowledged that four people were not returning to the work in Africa, but did not specify if the reason was related to Liardon's confession.
Shocked, many people did not see Liardon's problems coming.
"It was a disappointment, but the vision is greater than the man," said Spirit Life junior Farah Pattisalamuw, 31, who has chosen to stay at the school. "I believe restoration has already begun. I pray that pastor Roberts will come back soon. How can I preach the gospel if I cannot forgive people? That is how revival starts." Liardon's ministry has offices in England, South Africa and the Philippines. Spirit Life graduates have been sent to missions outposts aroundthe world as part of an effort called Operation 500.
Steven Lawson in Irvine, Calif.
 
Upvote 0

riverpastor

Take the Red Pill.
Mar 23, 2004
4,201
276
56
Ft. Worth
✟28,227.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
One of the first books I was introduced to soon after being filled with the Spirit was "I Saw Heaven" which tells of his visit to heaven as a young boy of 8 yrs old.

I saw him in person a couple of times.

I really lost track of his ministry over the years but was aware of this homosexual activity during the time when it was disclosed.

I believe that he was counseled to take more time "off" than he did. He came back to the pulpit rather quickly, maybe after a couple of months or so.

I really have not heard anymore out of his ministry since then.

Actually, I'd hope that you would go and report back to us what you recognize in the Spirit there.

I saw him at a confernce in Tulsa back in 1989. Saw him at a church in East Texas (Baptist church which was pastored by Bobby Conner and turned Spirit-filled). It was not unlikely that he would be invited to go into a "traditional" church, as he was used to bring the message of "God's Army" of believers to many within and oustide of different denominations.
 
Upvote 0

KingZzub

Blessed to Be A Blessing
Dec 23, 2005
14,754
893
48
Dagenham
Visit site
✟19,483.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Conservative
Thanks for the help.

Canadian couple George and Hazel Hill - part of the Victory Church movement. Real wonderful people of God. They will be able to bring wisdom and peace to many people wounded by the mess.

Cheers,
|ZZ|
 
Upvote 0
Aug 12, 2006
1,343
97
51
✟24,595.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Christina M said:
Yep...... so important to pray against backlash after success....

Our achilles heels are so targeted.
So now you understand why God has to develop our character BEFORE He gives us power.

(Please reference my entire thread on Discipline.)
 
Upvote 0
Jun 8, 2006
1,367
134
✟17,207.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
TheMatmanReturns said:
So now you understand why God has to develop our character BEFORE He gives us power.

(Please reference my entire thread on Discipline.)

In a sense that is true.

I was watching Liardon's video collection on God's Generals. Quite a number of them started well, but didn't finish well -- either died young, quit and disappeared or went into doctrinal error.

But despite all their weaknesses, God still used them and empowered them.
 
Upvote 0

KingZzub

Blessed to Be A Blessing
Dec 23, 2005
14,754
893
48
Dagenham
Visit site
✟19,483.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Conservative
God is interested in character, but even a cursory examination of miracle ministries (Liardon's own God's Generals being an ideal starting point) would show that many have power without great character.

Why? Because the moment you are born again you have the authority of Christ, and from the moment you are baptised in the Holy Spirit you have the same power that raised Christ from the dead inside you.

God does not operate His power on some sort of Brownie point scheme. You get it all at the moment of salvation. Faith is the connector to the power of God, not merit.

Cheers,
|ZZ|
 
Upvote 0
C

Christina M

Guest
DiscipleWhomJesusLoves said:
In a sense that is true.

I was watching Liardon's video collection on God's Generals. Quite a number of them started well, but didn't finish well -- either died young, quit and disappeared or went into doctrinal error.

But despite all their weaknesses, God still used them and empowered them.


That's what I loved about that book......... sometimes God does use the foolish to confound the wise...

What was interesting though, is I just think about how much MORE they would've had if they (we) could learn to crucify our flesh more often....
 
Upvote 0

KingZzub

Blessed to Be A Blessing
Dec 23, 2005
14,754
893
48
Dagenham
Visit site
✟19,483.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Conservative
It's not that you need character to have a miracle ministry, you absolutely don't.

You need character to maintain integrity and without that no-one will be interested in your ministry and you cannot get your message across.

Swaggart was taking in $8 mill per MONTH when he was caught "pants down". He was watched by more people than any other minister in history ever.

Now, no one wants to know. Character is essential. But not for the anointing. The only people God anoints are unworthy in the natural because they are the only people there are.

Cheers,
|ZZ|
 
Upvote 0
Aug 12, 2006
1,343
97
51
✟24,595.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
DiscipleWhomJesusLoves said:
In a sense that is true.

I was watching Liardon's video collection on God's Generals. Quite a number of them started well, but didn't finish well -- either died young, quit and disappeared or went into doctrinal error.

But despite all their weaknesses, God still used them and empowered them.
And perhaps He used them because they were the only willing and able vessels at the time.

But don't you think that if he had his "druthers," God would like to give his power to someone who will truly be able to handle it?

Don't you think that this would tickle God pink?

If I may quote from Lord Acton, the former Member of Britain's House of Lords, "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

We see this in human nature all the time, in other aspects of life. In politics, relationships, money... you name it! If you give someone absolute power, they will eventually abuse it.

Look at police officers. Have you ever seen a police officer drive down the expressway going ten or twenty miles above the speed limit---even though his lights are not flashing? Of course you have! And why have you? Because the cop knows that no one is going to give him a speeding ticket. He has no immediate accountability.

If this holds true with the lesser powers of man, why would it not be true with the greater powers of God in the hands of mortal man?

Truly, I think this phenomena is why Book of Acts miracles are relatively few and far between.

I lived in Tulsa, the charismatic WOF Jerusalem for three years. I worked forty hours per week at a very prominent international charismatic ministry. What social life I had was centered around the church or people who were associated with the WoF movement (except for two political campaigns I participated in, and even then WoF people were prevailent.) My wife worked either as a prayer minister and as a teacher at a WoF school throughout our period in this city.

Yet, in all of our time at Tulsa, with all of the time we spent doing WoF things, I could probably count on one hand the number of supernatural miracles I witnessed. Moreover, I could likewise count on one hand---if there were that many--the number of people I knew who had witnessed miracles (with their own eyes) during that same period of time.

Admittedly, my experiences are anecdotal; they may or may not be representative of what every other person saw or experienced during this period. Nevertheless, to the extent that one person could have relatively unfettered access to the heart of the WoF movement, I certainly had this access. Therefore, if miracles were prevailent, if anybody would have found them, I would have.

(Please note that I am not being critical of any ministry. Nor am I saying that miracles don't happen. Nor am I disparaging anything that I did see. I am simply saying that, for all the talk of miracles, I saw very few while I lived in the faith capital of the United States. My comments relate only to the scarcity of miracles, not to their existence.)

Now if miracles are scarce in the very place where more people believe in miracles, per capita, than in any other place, then there must be a reason that transcends the basic questions of faith and unbelief.
 
Upvote 0

KingZzub

Blessed to Be A Blessing
Dec 23, 2005
14,754
893
48
Dagenham
Visit site
✟19,483.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Conservative
:D
TheMatmanReturns said:
And perhaps He used them because they were the only willing and able vessels at the time.

No. He would have used anyone. He used them because He said anyone who believed in Him can do the works He does - without putting any other caveat on the release of His power other than simple faith in His goodness.

But don't you think that if he had his "druthers," God would like to give his power to someone who will truly be able to handle it?

Listen - there is no more power to get. The same power that raised Jesus from the dead is in you. You don't have to achieve certain brownie points to have the power it is in YOU. It is already available.

What God would like, to quote you, is people to realise the greatness of His power in them and the fullness of redemption and walk in what He has ALREADY released in their lives. It's actually really easy!

Don't you think that this would tickle God pink?

People trying to be good to earn power that they already have probably just bemuses God a little!

If I may quote from Lord Acton, the former Member of Britain's House of Lords, "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Acton clearly wasn't a great thinker. God is almighty and has never been corrupted - not even a little bit. Power corrupts flesh, true, but I don't live in the flesh. I live in the Word and in the Spirit.

We see this in human nature all the time, in other aspects of life. In politics, relationships, money... you name it! If you give someone absolute power, they will eventually abuse it.

Then by your reasoning God is an idiot because He has given me all power - see Acts 1.8. I can do ALL things through Christ who gives me strength.

Look at police officers. Have you ever seen a police officer drive down the expressway going ten or twenty miles above the speed limit---even though his lights are not flashing? Of course you have! And why have you? Because the cop knows that no one is going to give him a speeding ticket. He has no immediate accountability.

What that has to with the healing power that is in my hands I am not sure?

If this holds true with the lesser powers of man, why would it not be true with the greater powers of God in the hands of mortal man?

God has ALREADY blessed us with every single blessing. Christianity is not about trying to be good to earn the power, it is about living in the fulness of power that God has already given us.

Truly, I think this phenomena is why Book of Acts miracles are relatively few and far between.

No - it is because of what Acts itself says (in chapters 3 and 4) that it is by faith in the name of Jesus that miracles happen. We preach unbiblical rubbish like we need to achieve a certain level of holiness to work miracles and people live in condemnation rather than love and grace and hence don't see the power of God like they should.

I lived in Tulsa, the charismatic WOF Jerusalem for three years. I worked forty hours per week at a very prominent international charismatic ministry. What social life I had was centered around the church or people who were associated with the WoF movement (except for two political campaigns I participated in, and even then WoF people were prevailent.) My wife worked either as a prayer minister and as a teacher at a WoF school throughout our period in this city.

Would you like a medal? :D
You make it sound like a chore. It sounds like a good life for me (although I like being in the company of heathen every now and again!)

Yet, in all of our time at Tulsa, with all of the time we spent doing WoF things, I could probably count on one hand the number of supernatural miracles I witnessed. Moreover, I could likewise count on one hand---if there were that many--the number of people I knew who had witnessed miracles (with their own eyes) during that same period of time.

I find that a shame. But that doesn't invalidate the Word of God - no experience of man does. I see miracles. I have never preached without seeing someone healed, no matter what I am preaching on. I saw two blind people healed yesterday (not my ministry I must emphasis). This is normal.

Admittedly, my experiences are anecdotal; they may or may not be representative of what every other person saw or experienced during this period. Nevertheless, to the extent that one person could have relatively unfettered access to the heart of the WoF movement, I certainly had this access. Therefore, if miracles were prevailent, if anybody would have found them, I would have.

Why not go and do some? Mark 16 applies to you as well!

(Please note that I am not being critical of any ministry. Nor am I saying that miracles don't happen. Nor am I disparaging anything that I did see. I am simply saying that, for all the talk of miracles, I saw very few while I lived in the faith capital of the United States. My comments relate only to the scarcity of miracles, not to their existence.)

I appreciate your candor. I am not trying to be critical to yourself , just paint a picture of the Word.

Now if miracles are scarce in the very place where more people believe in miracles, per capita, than in any other place, then there must be a reason that transcends the basic questions of faith and unbelief.

I don't think there is. If there are no miracles, faith is the issue.

Cheers,
|ZZ|
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.