Revelation 20 and the so-called millennial reign

[AFrazier]

meaning you have no adequate response

No, I don't think he meant that he had no response. I think he meant that you come across as accusatory and argumentative, and he prefers not to engage with you.

 

[Billy Evmur]

No, I don't think he meant that he had no response. I think he meant that you come across as accusatory and argumentative, and he prefers not to engage with you.

When folks stand up and grandly pronounce there will be no 1, 000 year reign of Christ with His saints, and you humbly point out to them the bible says there will be. And they sniff and say "ah this is only figurative" and you meekly ask them "the great white throne in the previous passage and the new heaven and the new earth in the following passage, are these also only figurative?"

That's when they start spluttering stuff about your being argumentative...

 

[AFrazier]

When folks stand up and grandly pronounce there will be no 1, 000 year reign of Christ with His saints, and you humbly point out to them the bible says there will be. And they sniff and say "ah this is only figurative" and you meekly ask them "the great white throne in the previous passage and the new heaven and the new earth in the following passage, are these also only figurative?"

That's when they start spluttering stuff about your being argumentative...

Yeah, I suppose. I won't argue that. People don't like rebuttals nowadays. Everyone just wants to be declared right, and be patted on the back for their genius.

But I will say that the Revelation opens by saying that what was shown thereafter was "signified" by the angel, which is to say that it was shown in signs and symbols; i.e. it's symbolic, apocalyptic imagery. Except where specifically noted otherwise, everything in the book is suspect of being symbolic imagery. That includes the thousand years. As David Chilton had once put it, it may simply mean, "a long time." I'm also of the opinion that the new heaven and new earth are likewise symbolic imagery, just like the New Jerusalem.

The problem that you run into is that there has to be a consistent methodology. When we see a beast with the feet of a bear, the mouth of a lion, and the body of a leopard, we recognize via the bizarre amalgamation of animals that this is very likely figurative of something, and not literal. Our minds detect that it's not a natural representation. But when we come across something that appears normal, we automatically assume that it's literal, even though it's part of the same collection of symbolic imagery. So the locusts with scorpion tails are figurative, because that's unnatural. But a mountain crashing into the sea is literal, because we can all readily envision a comet or asteroid hitting the earth. Again, there has to be consistency in methodology. The mountain is as figurative as the locusts are. You just have to discover the correct interpretation.

I'll say further that the Revelation is not beyond our reach interpretively. The fact is, it's written, as I said, in apocalyptic imagery, and this same imagery is used throughout the Old Testament prophets, and often includes the interpretation. As I once heard it said, the Revelation is the most Biblical book in the Bible. Practically the whole thing is built out of solid scripture. Every bit of it is deliberate.

 

[jonojim1337]

The millennial reign is when the Word of God defeats the Beast and the false prophet in the believer (he will resurrect the first fruits). Then one must reign with Christ for 1000 years before the final enemy is defeated.

Just like Abraham saw his coming and was glad, so too we see his coming and are glad.

 

[CoreyD]

This is correct.

Why is it correct?
It's stated as though it's actually written in the scriptures somewhere, but we don't see it.
So what makes it correct to you? An angel did not tell anyone, I'm sure, but if that's the case, we need not give it thought (Galatians 1:8).

However, just because one asserts this fact, doesn't mean a Dispensationalist will believe it. Dispensational premillennialism generally holds that Israel and the Church are distinct entities; and when Israel rejected the Gospel, the Church became God's Plan B or better expressed a mere "consolation prize" for believers.

Dispensational premillennialism in reality is apart of the "warp and woof" of America Christianity. Dallas Theological Seminary was originally established to promote Dispensationalism. Truly sad state of affairs.

"asserts this fact".
Usually, an assertion is backed by evidence, if we are to validate it.
Can you provide us with any evidence for this assertion?

 

[CoreyD]

@Billy Evmur
Dude. I like you. You can shake my hand any day.
I find it easier to talk to my door. LOL

 

[CoreyD]

Yeah, I suppose. I won't argue that. People don't like rebuttals nowadays. Everyone just wants to be declared right, and be patted on the back for their genius.

I'm with you here.

 

[CoreyD]

Revelation 20 (KJV)

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

1. Angel = messenger (malach in Hebrew aggelos in Greek) sent from heaven having the keys to the abussos = abyss. The messenger from heaven with the keys to the abyss (bottomless pit) is Jesus (Revelation 1:18). Having a great chain in his hand.
2. He bound Satan in the abyss for thousands (plural) of years. Chillioi in Greek is a plural word.
3. This incarceration to deliver the world from his direct evil influence is until the divinely determined end of the thousands of years is reached. Tie this is with the time of the Gentiles (Luke 21:24) when the focus of the Gospel is turned away from Israel and to the Gentiles. When that reaches its end / time of completeness / fulfillment and the number of Gentiles who will come in is reached, the focus of the Gospel outreach will once again be aimed at the Jews (Isaiah 54:6-10).
4. Verse four briefly leaves this multiple thousand years epoch foreshadowing the “little season” mentioned in verse 3 during which time the beast shall reign and decree Christians as evil and to be exterminated if they do not renounce Jesus and take the same mark of the allegiance to the beast that the rest of the world takes in that day. Previously, during the thousands of years the beast is incarcerated in the abyss, Christians reigned on the earth in Christ during the Church age (Revelation 1:6 / Revelation 5:10 / 1 Peter 2:3-9).
5. Verse 5 calls the Church age “the First Resurrection.” And it specifies that until the thousands of years Christian Age / Era the only resurrection to take place is that of the Lord Jesus Christ. The First Resurrection is the Church Age now in its 1992nd year. No other resurrection save that of Christ Jesus will occur until his second coming at the end of the age (Church Age / end of the thousands of years).
6. Verse 6 again defines the Church Age where the second death has no power on those who are believers in Christ Jesus and who are a kingdom of priests in Christ (Revelation 1:6 / Revelation 5:10 / 1 Peter 2:3-9).
7. Verse 7 explains the release of the beast and Satan in the “little season” known as the 70th Week of Daniel.
8. Describing in overview the tribulation periods (also a plural) during the 70th Week of Daniel.
9. Citing the goal eliminating first the Christians (Revelation 12:17 – Revelation 13:18) and then the Jewish people whom he has fooled into believing he is the messiah (John 5:43).

The Jews with their backs up against the wall of annihilation as never before (with the 200 million man army bivouacked in the valley at the foot of Mount Megiddo) cry out to Jesus as a last resort.

Psalm 118:25–26 (KJV)

25 Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.

26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

Which Jesus alluded to in Matthew 23:37-39.

Jesus will return with such force that the Mount of Olives will split in two (Zechariah 14:4) and defend the Jews and defeat the armies of the devil (Revelation 19:11-21).

Then comes the end of the age: Judgment Day!

Revelation 20: (KJV)

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

My contribution.

 

[Clare73]

Why is it correct?

Because as God told Miriam in defense of Moses, he gives prophecy in riddles (dark sayings), and not clearly (Nu 12:8).
Revelation is some of that prophecy.

What is not given in riddles and is clear is NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church.

Any personal (private) interpretation of prophetic riddles not in agreement with NT authoritative teaching is, ipso facto, incorrect.

 

[CoreyD]

Because as God told Miriam in defense of Moses, he gives prophecy in riddles (dark sayings), and not clearly (Nu 12:8).
Revelation is some of that prophecy.

In other words... God said he gives prophecy in riddles, and Revelation is given in signs, therefore Clare declares the answer to the riddle because she is wiser than Solomon - God given wisdom is conferred upon her, and so her declaration is correct.

That's nothing near evidence Clare. That's what we call an empty unsupported dogmatic claim.
Can't you see that?

Remember, someone used the scriptures to point out a false statement you made. They did a very good job of using scripture.
Do you recall your response?
Look carefully at it again please.
Indeed he is, or there would be no Christianity.
Do you see nothing wrong with that statement?

How about your next response when another scripture was used to clearly debunk your unsupported dogmatic claim?
Your reply... He is partly bound, not fully bound. . .he still goes about as a roaring lion. . .
Oh wait wait wait. He's not bound fully. He's partly bound.
Clare...

I'll add you to those I pray that if they have a sincere heart, may they humble themselves, and develop the righ attitude before it's too late for them.
However, I also keep in mind 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.​

There are some persons "written off" by God for destruction, because they want to believe anything but the truth, for their own selfish reasons.
I leave that to God, because he knows the heart.

What is not given in riddles and is clear is NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church.

Any personal (private) interpretation of prophetic riddles not in agreement with NT authoritative teaching is, ipso facto, incorrect.

If you ever are interested in knowing, Revelation was given to John "to show His servants - things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John". John 1:1
It's a prophecy of the future given about 50 years after the church was formed.

The sequence of events does not happen in one hour, but over a period of many many years.
For example, Revelation 6 - 4 seals are opened, and those four horsemen start to ride.
If you study the events, they do not span a short period.
Revelation 7:1, is itself not a short period, and if I took you through step by step, it won't be a short period.

The 1.000 year reign of Christ is specific to the heirs being resurrected, and given rulership with Christ, for 1,000 years. That's what we read.
According to Revelation, they are kings and priests.

So, it looks like your private interpretation is not in agreement with NT authoritative teaching, and is therefore, ipso facto, incorrect.
What is the wisest thing you should do at this point Clare?

 

[Clare73]

Clare...

I'll add you to those I pray that if they have a sincere heart, may they humble themselves, and develop the righ attitude before it's too late for them.

Thanks, I will do the same for you. . .