Revelation 12

[BibleDaniel7]

There has been some interesting discussion on here about Revelation 12. I would like to present a different interpretation, with some Bible verses to support it. I welcome your thoughts and criticism! Bible verses in italics from NIV.

Firstly, most of the interpretations of Revelation 12 I have seen here relate to past events from the perspective of John. However the beginning of Revelation points to it being of future events:

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place...
Revelation 1:1a

I believe instead that Revelation 12 relates to the events of the 1940s: the Second World War, the Holocaust, the formation of Israel and the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. Here is why:

She gave birth to a son, a male child, who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."
Revelation 12:5

This son who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter appears to be Jesus (e.g. Rev 19:15). However an underlying principle to understand the symbolism of the people and beasts in Revelation - and elsewhere in the Bible, such as Daniel, is that they represent large groups of people - empires, nations or organizations. Sometimes they can reference an individual who represents the group as its' leader. A good example to show this is Daniel's explanation to Nebuchadnezzar of his dream:

"This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. Your Majesty, you are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; in your hands he has placed all mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds in the sky. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.
"After you, another kingdom will arise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth.
Daniel 2:36-39

Nebuchadnezzar's dream was of a great statue with a head of gold, shoulders of silver and a torso of bronze. Daniel says the head of gold is Nebuchadnezzar, as king he represents his empire: Babylon. However, when he talks about the next two parts of the statue he talks about kingdoms, not their kings. The first three parts of the statue are generally understood to represent the empires of Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece.

Using this principle, the son referred to in Revelation 12 is not Jesus Christ himself, just as the head of gold was not Nebuchadnezzar, but who they represent: Nebuchadnezzar was king of Babylon, so represented Babylon. Jesus Christ is king of Israel, so the son being born in Revelation 12 represents the country of Israel - born in 1948.

A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.
Revelation 12:1

This is a reference to Joseph's dream:

Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. "Listen," he said, "I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me."
Genesis 37:9

In Joseph's dream the sun and moon were his father, Jacob, and mother, Rachel, and the eleven stars were his eleven brothers. So the twelve stars in the crown of the woman represent the twelve sons of Jacob - the twelve tribes of Israel. The woman, therefore, represents the Jews who gave birth to their country, Israel.

The enormous red dragon (later called Satan) swept a third of the stars out of the sky with its' tail. We have already seen that the stars are the Jews. So this is a reference to the Holocaust, and therefore the dragon, Satan, represents Nazi Germany at this time, with the Holocaust happening at the tail end of the Nazi reign.
Later on, in verse 15, Satan makes one further attempt to fight the woman, with a river of water from his mouth. This represents the 1948 Arab-Israeli war immediately after Israel's Declaration of Independence, with the river of water being the surrounding nations unsuccessfully invading Israel.

I think it fits together and makes sense, but please let me know what you think.

 

[Douggg]

In Joseph's dream the sun and moon were his father, Jacob, and mother, Rachel, and the eleven stars were his eleven brothers. So the twelve stars in the crown of the woman represent the twelve sons of Jacob - the twelve tribes of Israel. The woman, therefore, represents the Jews who gave birth to their country, Israel.

Welcome to the forum, BibleDaniel7.

I don't think that the man-child the woman gave birth to is Israel.

In Revelation 12:5

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Her child is Jesus. The woman Israel.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

-----------------------------------------

Revelation 12:1-5 is a historic introduction to the rest of Revelation 12 to identify the woman as being Israel.

Revelation 12:1-5 a historic introduction.
Revelation 12:6-17 Israel during the 7 year 70th week.
verse 6 - 1260 day's the first half
verse 14 - time, times, half time time, the second half.

Here is a diagram I made of all 15 end times time frames in the bible. Notice the placement of the 1260 days (Revelation 12:6) and the time, times, half time (Revelation 12:14).

This may help you with your analysis...
9 of the timeframes end with Jesus's Return
5 of the timeframes begin with Daniel 9:27 70th week start.
3 of the timeframes (the three bottom ones) don't touch either the beginning nor ending of the 70th week.

 

[keras]

A Woman clothed with the sun:
Revelation 12:1-2 ......there appeared a great sign in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, beneath her feet the moon and on her head, a crown of twelve stars. She cried out in the pain of her labour.

Revelation 12:17 Furious with the woman, [faithful Christians, taken to safety] the dragon goes off to wage war with the rest of her offspring. [other Christians. The two groups are shown in Daniel 11:32 and Xechariah ]

There are differing theories as to who this ‘woman’ represents. Some say that it is the Virgin Mary and she was indeed, the mother of the ‘man child’, Jesus. Others identify her with the ‘Mother Church’, or all of Christendom.
I consider that the correct identification is that she represents the Israel of God. That is: every faithful Christian believer. Galatians 6:14-16

Israel is often referred to as a married woman; Isaiah 54:1-6, Jeremiah 3:1-11, Hosea 2:14-23
To hold that the woman is the ethnic Israel of today, is wrong, but Jesus came from Israel [Judah] and His chosen Christian people is the result of His work, His seed. Galatians 3:26-29

“clothed with the sun” Christians recognize and honour Jesus Christ as the Son [sun] of Righteousness. They will be the bearers of this divine light.

“the moon under her feet” As the moon is subordinate to the sun and gets her light from it, so all of Israel’s glory comes from Jesus. The moon shines at night, so a redeemed Israel will be people from every tribe, race, nation and language, living in peace and security in all of the holy Land, will be a bright witness during the darkness of the Tribulation era.

“A crown of twelve stars on her head” Symbolic of the twelve tribes of Israel, all the Lord’s faithful people. The future authority and rule of Christians during the Millennium are portrayed in Joseph’s dream. Genesis 37:9 Twelve is the number symbolic of government.

“ crying out in pain” This seems to refer to the coming time of trial for Judah, Israel and all the worlds peoples. The prophet Micah confirms this in a clear prophecy. After referring to the birth of the Messiah in Micah 5:2 , he then says in; Micah 5:3 Therefore, only until she who is pregnant has given birth, will He give up Israel .....and then those of the people who survive will rejoin their brethren.

“the rest of her offspring” Those Christians who remain in Israel and around the world, who refuse to take the mark of the beast.

The parenthesis in the middle of Micah 5:3, is a time period of nearly 2000 years. Very soon dramatic changes will happen on this world. The Lord’s plan for the end period of this age will commence with a worldwide judgement of fire upon His enemies, then all those prophecies about the resettlement of the Land of Israel, the rise of the Antichrist and the Great Tribulation will take place. After that Jesus will Return and reign with His saints for 1000 years.

 

[RandyPNW]

There has been some interesting discussion on here about Revelation 12. I would like to present a different interpretation, with some Bible verses to support it. I welcome your thoughts and criticism! Bible verses in italics from NIV.

Firstly, most of the interpretations of Revelation 12 I have seen here relate to past events from the perspective of John. However the beginning of Revelation points to it being of future events:

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place...
Revelation 1:1a

I believe instead that Revelation 12 relates to the events of the 1940s: the Second World War, the Holocaust, the formation of Israel and the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. Here is why:

She gave birth to a son, a male child, who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."
Revelation 12:5

This son who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter appears to be Jesus (e.g. Rev 19:15). However an underlying principle to understand the symbolism of the people and beasts in Revelation - and elsewhere in the Bible, such as Daniel, is that they represent large groups of people - empires, nations or organizations. Sometimes they can reference an individual who represents the group as its' leader. A good example to show this is Daniel's explanation to Nebuchadnezzar of his dream:

"This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. Your Majesty, you are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; in your hands he has placed all mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds in the sky. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.
"After you, another kingdom will arise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth.
Daniel 2:36-39

Nebuchadnezzar's dream was of a great statue with a head of gold, shoulders of silver and a torso of bronze. Daniel says the head of gold is Nebuchadnezzar, as king he represents his empire: Babylon. However, when he talks about the next two parts of the statue he talks about kingdoms, not their kings. The first three parts of the statue are generally understood to represent the empires of Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece.

Using this principle, the son referred to in Revelation 12 is not Jesus Christ himself, just as the head of gold was not Nebuchadnezzar, but who they represent: Nebuchadnezzar was king of Babylon, so represented Babylon. Jesus Christ is king of Israel, so the son being born in Revelation 12 represents the country of Israel - born in 1948.

A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.
Revelation 12:1

This is a reference to Joseph's dream:

Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. "Listen," he said, "I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me."
Genesis 37:9

In Joseph's dream the sun and moon were his father, Jacob, and mother, Rachel, and the eleven stars were his eleven brothers. So the twelve stars in the crown of the woman represent the twelve sons of Jacob - the twelve tribes of Israel. The woman, therefore, represents the Jews who gave birth to their country, Israel.

The enormous red dragon (later called Satan) swept a third of the stars out of the sky with its' tail. We have already seen that the stars are the Jews. So this is a reference to the Holocaust, and therefore the dragon, Satan, represents Nazi Germany at this time, with the Holocaust happening at the tail end of the Nazi reign.
Later on, in verse 15, Satan makes one further attempt to fight the woman, with a river of water from his mouth. This represents the 1948 Arab-Israeli war immediately after Israel's Declaration of Independence, with the river of water being the surrounding nations unsuccessfully invading Israel.

I think it fits together and makes sense, but please let me know what you think.

I think your interpretation is perhaps not entirely accurate but interesting nonetheless. My own view is that we are given a timeless picture of the Church in heaven with Christ, after he, as a man-child, ascended into heaven. He appears to have been "snatched up," more like Christians are at the Rapture, than ascending, as Christ did.

Nevertheless, Christ is, I think, the man child who was caught up to God at the ascension. And this is used as the background for a future application of Satanic combat against the endtime Church.

So I don't think this is about Israel, but rather, about a Satanic attack that began with Israel, who had the 12 tribes. These were the 12 stars. But this is--I think you're correct, an endtimes development that may encompass the 20th century wars. Hitler, in particular, looked like a forerunner of Antichrist. The same may be said of Stalin, to some degree.

The deliverance of Israel in the present day is, however, significant in my estimation. So I do find your interpretation interesting. I do think the current attacks on Israel in the Middle East is leading towards Armageddon. But it will take some time for the Antichristian Empire to emerge. And then it will reign for 3.5 years before Christ returns to destroy it and save the Church, along with Israel.

Thanks for sharing. Interesting subject!

 

[Qubit]

So I don't think this is about Israel, but rather, about a Satanic attack that began with Israel, who had the 12 tribes. These were the 12 stars.

The above is correct.

 

[Qubit]

I believe instead that Revelation 12 relates to the events of the 1940s: the Second World War, the Holocaust, the formation of Israel and the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.

What does the above have to do with Salvation? Nothing. It was finished when Jesus was crucified.

Most who interpret Revelation 12 make the simple mistake of not interpreting it through the lens of Salvation as well as the history of the Old Testament that led to the birth of Jesus.

 

[Qubit]

Jesus Christ is king of Israel, so the son being born in Revelation 12 represents the country of Israel - born in 1948.

The Manchild is Isaac whose lineage led to the birth of Jesus. The Prophecy covers every Male that carried the Seed of Abraham.

In Joseph's dream the sun and moon were his father, Jacob, and mother, Rachel, and the eleven stars were his eleven brothers. So the twelve stars in the crown of the woman represent the twelve sons of Jacob - the twelve tribes of Israel.

You are on the right track.

Sun = Father, or more specifically, Abraham's Seed (Sperm)
Moon = Mother, or more specifically, the Seed of the Woman (Ovum)

The Woman on the Moon is symbolic of Conception.

The woman, therefore, represents the Jews who gave birth to their country, Israel.

Just as the Manchild represents all of the Males that carried Abrham's Seed to the birth of Jesus, so too the Woman.

She is Sarah as well as every Female that carried the Seed of the Woman up to Mary.

The enormous red dragon (later called Satan) swept a third of the stars out of the sky with its' tail.

Those are Fallen Angels that fell long ago around the time of Abraham's Blessing with Melchizedek. Sodom and Gomorrah was likely the event.

We have already seen that the stars are the Jews.

No. The Twelve Stars are the Twelve Tribes, not the Tribe of Judah which are the Jews in Israel currently.

So this is a reference to the Holocaust, and therefore the dragon, Satan, represents Nazi Germany at this time, with the Holocaust happening at the tail end of the Nazi reign.

The Dragon is Pharaoh chasing the Israelites into the Wilderness...

Revelation 12:6
"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."

Fled into the Wilderness = Exodus
Place Prepared of God = Tabernacle in the Wilderness and future Temples
Feed Her = Seed of the Woman is nourished in the Womb
1260 Days = 1260 years from the Exodus to the birth of Jesus

Again, the Seed of the Woman is symbolic of the Bloodline, Genealogy, etc.. that led to Jesus. It is kept from the 'face of the serpent'.

What is the Serpent?
What is the 'Face' of the Serpent?

Do you know? That is crucial to interpreting!

Later on, in verse 15, Satan makes one further attempt to fight the woman, with a river of water from his mouth.

The 'flood' is a flood of ungodly men. More specifically, it is symbolic of Seminal Fluid that flows from the 'face' (Head) of the Phallus (Serpent).

It is the Seed of the Serpent trying to corrupt the Seed of the Woman.

I have given you the Meat of the Word. Most interpretations you will hear is Milk for Children.

 

[Qubit]

Once again, the Prophecies are about Salvation. It is about the rich and amazing history of the Old Testament that led to the birth of our Saviour.

Not everything in the Bible is about our Generation.

Ego, Agenda, Narcissism, etc. has corrupted Man's understanding of what Revelation is teaching, thus modern interpreters try and make it all about 'us' and 'me me me' and the current piece of real estate called 'Israel' with their secular government and world famous "Pride" festivals.

Do not throw the Old Testament and the REAL Israel in the garbage!

 

[tranquil]

There has been some interesting discussion on here about Revelation 12. I would like to present a different interpretation, with some Bible verses to support it. I welcome your thoughts and criticism! Bible verses in italics from NIV.

Firstly, most of the interpretations of Revelation 12 I have seen here relate to past events from the perspective of John. However the beginning of Revelation points to it being of future events:

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place...
Revelation 1:1a

I believe instead that Revelation 12 relates to the events of the 1940s: the Second World War, the Holocaust, the formation of Israel and the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. Here is why:

She gave birth to a son, a male child, who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."
Revelation 12:5

This son who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter appears to be Jesus (e.g. Rev 19:15). However an underlying principle to understand the symbolism of the people and beasts in Revelation - and elsewhere in the Bible, such as Daniel, is that they represent large groups of people - empires, nations or organizations. Sometimes they can reference an individual who represents the group as its' leader. A good example to show this is Daniel's explanation to Nebuchadnezzar of his dream:

"This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. Your Majesty, you are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; in your hands he has placed all mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds in the sky. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.
"After you, another kingdom will arise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth.
Daniel 2:36-39

Nebuchadnezzar's dream was of a great statue with a head of gold, shoulders of silver and a torso of bronze. Daniel says the head of gold is Nebuchadnezzar, as king he represents his empire: Babylon. However, when he talks about the next two parts of the statue he talks about kingdoms, not their kings. The first three parts of the statue are generally understood to represent the empires of Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece.

Using this principle, the son referred to in Revelation 12 is not Jesus Christ himself, just as the head of gold was not Nebuchadnezzar, but who they represent: Nebuchadnezzar was king of Babylon, so represented Babylon. Jesus Christ is king of Israel, so the son being born in Revelation 12 represents the country of Israel - born in 1948.

A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.
Revelation 12:1

This is a reference to Joseph's dream:

Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. "Listen," he said, "I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me."
Genesis 37:9

In Joseph's dream the sun and moon were his father, Jacob, and mother, Rachel, and the eleven stars were his eleven brothers. So the twelve stars in the crown of the woman represent the twelve sons of Jacob - the twelve tribes of Israel. The woman, therefore, represents the Jews who gave birth to their country, Israel.

The enormous red dragon (later called Satan) swept a third of the stars out of the sky with its' tail. We have already seen that the stars are the Jews. So this is a reference to the Holocaust, and therefore the dragon, Satan, represents Nazi Germany at this time, with the Holocaust happening at the tail end of the Nazi reign.
Later on, in verse 15, Satan makes one further attempt to fight the woman, with a river of water from his mouth. This represents the 1948 Arab-Israeli war immediately after Israel's Declaration of Independence, with the river of water being the surrounding nations unsuccessfully invading Israel.

I think it fits together and makes sense, but please let me know what you think.

Imo, even this is too much in the past.

The Rev 12 sign in heaven is this from Matt 24:

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.​

30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.​

We have a 'sign in heaven' in Revelation with Rev 12, so why does literally everyone consign this to the ancient past (or recent past)??! No one wants to simply see what is obvious: the Rev 12 sign is this same exact sign in heaven that Jesus is talking about! It is occurring 'immediately after the 'tribulation of those days'.

There is a sign in heaven in the Olivet discourse and there is a sign in heaven in Revelation - they are the same sign.

The Rev 12 sign of the Son of Man in heaven is the sign in heaven taking place immediately after the great tribulation.

The 'locusts' of the 5th trumpet are the 'people of the prince to come' (Dan 9:26) who 'cut off the daily sacrifices' (Joel 1:4-9) starting the 1290 days of Dan 12:11.

The 6th Trumpet at Rev 9:13-21 is the 'winter, Sabbath, great tribulation' (starting 1290 days) which ends at the 7th Trumpet and will start the 7 bowls of wrath in a little bit. The sign of the son of man in heaven occurs at the end of this 1290 days (at the 7th Trumpet). (30 days after the 'winter, Sabbath great tribulation', comes the Dan 9:27 covenant that will supposedly end the great tribulation, but this person will break it at the 7th Trumpet).

The Rev 12 sign is referenced in Isaiah 7 & 8 'sign of Immanuel' ('God is with us')

10Again the LORD spoke to Ahaz, saying, 11“Ask for a sign from the LORD your God, whether from the depths of Sheol or the heights of heaven.”​

​

12But Ahaz replied, “I will not ask; I will not test the LORD.”​

​

13Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, O house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God as well? 14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel. 15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey. 16For before the boy knows enough to reject evil and choose good, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. ​

​

17The LORD will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since the day Ephraim separated from Judah—He will bring the king of Assyria.” ​

​

18On that day the LORD will whistle to the flies at the farthest streams of the Nile and to the bees in the land of Assyria.​

​

19And they will all come and settle in the steep ravines and clefts of the rocks, in all the thornbushes and watering holes.​

20 On that day the Lord will use a razor hired from beyond the Euphrates—the king of Assyria—to shave your head and the hair of your legs, and to remove your beard as well. 21 On that day a man will raise a young cow and two sheep, 22 and from the abundance of milk they give, he will eat curds; for all who remain in the land will eat curds and honey.​

and Isaiah 8

3And I had relations with the prophetess, and she conceived and gave birth to a son. The LORD said to me, “Name him Maher-shalal-hash-baz. 4For before the boy knows how to cry ‘Father’ or ‘Mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria will be carried off by the king of Assyria.” 5And the LORD spoke to me further: 6“Because this people has rejected the gently flowing waters of Shiloah and rejoiced in Rezin​

and the son of Remaliah, 7the Lord will surely bring against them the mighty floodwaters of the Euphratesc—e king of Assyria and all his pomp.​

It will overflow its channels and overrun its banks. 8It will pour into Judah, swirling and sweeping over it, reaching up to the neck; its spreading streams will cover your entire land, O Immanuel!​

Basically, at that point (at the end of the 1290 days, the 7th Trumpet) when the Rev 12 sign of the son of man in heaven occurs, the king of Damascus, Syria and the king of 'Israel' reject the 'waters of Shiloh' (peace) and conspire to take over Judah and Jerusalem so as to install their puppet king over Judah.

Within a few months (Maher shalal hash baz means 'quickly plunder'), the king of Assyria (the Assyrian) destroys (northern) Israel and Damascus, Syria. That is why the 'child' gets to eat 'curds and honey' - the land of its northern enemies has been turned into fields for grazing and bees to flourish.

That time frame of the 'quickly plunder' is the next 45 days (after 1290 days comes 45 more days to get us to the blessed 1335th day).

 

[BibleDaniel7]

Welcome to the forum, BibleDaniel7.

I don't think that the man-child the woman gave birth to is Israel.

In Revelation 12:5

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Her child is Jesus. The woman Israel.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

-----------------------------------------

Revelation 12:1-5 is a historic introduction to the rest of Revelation 12 to identify the woman as being Israel.

Revelation 12:1-5 a historic introduction.
Revelation 12:6-17 Israel during the 7 year 70th week.
verse 6 - 1260 day's the first half
verse 14 - time, times, half time time, the second half.

Here is a diagram I made of all 15 end times time frames in the bible. Notice the placement of the 1260 days (Revelation 12:6) and the time, times, half time (Revelation 12:14).

This may help you with your analysis...
9 of the timeframes end with Jesus's Return
5 of the timeframes begin with Daniel 9:27 70th week start.
3 of the timeframes (the three bottom ones) don't touch either the beginning nor ending of the 70th week.


View attachment 350528

Hi Douggg! Thank you for your reply. Yes, regarding verse 5, under my interpretation the son is Jesus Christ as King of Israel, so the reference to being caught up to God and his throne applies to Jesus, while the rest of the passage refers to the birth of Israel (represented by Jesus, its' King, in the same way as Nebuchadnezzar represented Babylon in Daniel 2:36).

Thank you very much for your helpful diagram showing all the references to 42 months etc. and how you link them together. I will give it more thought, it is good to have them all written down. How do you interpret the dragon's tail sweeping a third of the stars out of the sky in Revelation 12:3, if you see that part of the passage as happening 2000 years ago? To me that seems a very clear reference to the Holocaust.

 

[BibleDaniel7]

A Woman clothed with the sun:
Revelation 12:1-2 ......there appeared a great sign in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, beneath her feet the moon and on her head, a crown of twelve stars. She cried out in the pain of her labour.

Revelation 12:17 Furious with the woman, [faithful Christians, taken to safety] the dragon goes off to wage war with the rest of her offspring. [other Christians. The two groups are shown in Daniel 11:32 and Xechariah ]

There are differing theories as to who this ‘woman’ represents. Some say that it is the Virgin Mary and she was indeed, the mother of the ‘man child’, Jesus. Others identify her with the ‘Mother Church’, or all of Christendom.
I consider that the correct identification is that she represents the Israel of God. That is: every faithful Christian believer. Galatians 6:14-16

Israel is often referred to as a married woman; Isaiah 54:1-6, Jeremiah 3:1-11, Hosea 2:14-23
To hold that the woman is the ethnic Israel of today, is wrong, but Jesus came from Israel [Judah] and His chosen Christian people is the result of His work, His seed. Galatians 3:26-29

“clothed with the sun” Christians recognize and honour Jesus Christ as the Son [sun] of Righteousness. They will be the bearers of this divine light.

“the moon under her feet” As the moon is subordinate to the sun and gets her light from it, so all of Israel’s glory comes from Jesus. The moon shines at night, so a redeemed Israel will be people from every tribe, race, nation and language, living in peace and security in all of the holy Land, will be a bright witness during the darkness of the Tribulation era.

“A crown of twelve stars on her head” Symbolic of the twelve tribes of Israel, all the Lord’s faithful people. The future authority and rule of Christians during the Millennium are portrayed in Joseph’s dream. Genesis 37:9 Twelve is the number symbolic of government.

“ crying out in pain” This seems to refer to the coming time of trial for Judah, Israel and all the worlds peoples. The prophet Micah confirms this in a clear prophecy. After referring to the birth of the Messiah in Micah 5:2 , he then says in; Micah 5:3 Therefore, only until she who is pregnant has given birth, will He give up Israel .....and then those of the people who survive will rejoin their brethren.

“the rest of her offspring” Those Christians who remain in Israel and around the world, who refuse to take the mark of the beast.

The parenthesis in the middle of Micah 5:3, is a time period of nearly 2000 years. Very soon dramatic changes will happen on this world. The Lord’s plan for the end period of this age will commence with a worldwide judgement of fire upon His enemies, then all those prophecies about the resettlement of the Land of Israel, the rise of the Antichrist and the Great Tribulation will take place. After that Jesus will Return and reign with His saints for 1000 years.

Hi Keras - Thank you for your reply. You agree that the 12 stars in the woman's crown represent the twelve tribes of Israel, but seem to identify the woman as the "Israel of God" who you identify as every faithful believer, is that right? Who is the Son born to the woman in Rev 12:5 in your interpretation? And when did the events occur in your interpretation? How do you interpret the dragon's tail sweeping a third of the stars out of the sky in Revelation 12:3? I am just trying to understand your interpretation.

I am not sure how you can say Joseph's dream in Genesis 37:9 relates to the church? It seems clear that it was a prophetic dream that Joseph's family would bow down to him when they come to visit him in Egypt some years later. It is even the interpretation his father, Jacob/Israel, has in Genesis 37:10.

Micah 5 is a very interesting chapter and I agree it is closely linked to Revelation 12, thank you for bringing it up, I would like to study it more.

 

[BibleDaniel7]

The Manchild is Isaac whose lineage led to the birth of Jesus. The Prophecy covers every Male that carried the Seed of Abraham.



You are on the right track.

Sun = Father, or more specifically, Abraham's Seed (Sperm)
Moon = Mother, or more specifically, the Seed of the Woman (Ovum)

The Woman on the Moon is symbolic of Conception.



Just as the Manchild represents all of the Males that carried Abrham's Seed to the birth of Jesus, so too the Woman.

She is Sarah as well as every Female that carried the Seed of the Woman up to Mary.



Those are Fallen Angels that fell long ago around the time of Abraham's Blessing with Melchizedek. Sodom and Gomorrah was likely the event.



No. The Twelve Stars are the Twelve Tribes, not the Tribe of Judah which are the Jews in Israel currently.



The Dragon is Pharaoh chasing the Israelites into the Wilderness...

Revelation 12:6
"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."

Fled into the Wilderness = Exodus
Place Prepared of God = Tabernacle in the Wilderness and future Temples
Feed Her = Seed of the Woman is nourished in the Womb
1260 Days = 1260 years from the Exodus to the birth of Jesus

Again, the Seed of the Woman is symbolic of the Bloodline, Genealogy, etc.. that led to Jesus. It is kept from the 'face of the serpent'.

What is the Serpent?
What is the 'Face' of the Serpent?

Do you know? That is crucial to interpreting!



The 'flood' is a flood of ungodly men. More specifically, it is symbolic of Seminal Fluid that flows from the 'face' (Head) of the Phallus (Serpent).

It is the Seed of the Serpent trying to corrupt the Seed of the Woman.

I have given you the Meat of the Word. Most interpretations you will hear is Milk for Children.

Hi Qubit

Thank you for sharing your interpretation. I agree that there are many parallels between Revelation 12 and the original Exodus, which of course led up to the original formation of Israel, just as I believe Revelation 12 covers the formation of the modern country of Israel. I am sure the parallels are deliberate by God, but I don't think Revelation 12 is there just to restate the Exodus story, which we already have. Look at Rev 1:1, the visions of Revelation are about future events to John, not older history.

 

[BibleDaniel7]

Imo, even this is too much in the past.

The Rev 12 sign in heaven is this from Matt 24:

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.​

30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.​

We have a 'sign in heaven' in Revelation with Rev 12, so why does literally everyone consign this to the ancient past (or recent past)??! No one wants to simply see what is obvious: the Rev 12 sign is this same exact sign in heaven that Jesus is talking about! It is occurring 'immediately after the 'tribulation of those days'.

There is a sign in heaven in the Olivet discourse and there is a sign in heaven in Revelation - they are the same sign.

The Rev 12 sign of the Son of Man in heaven is the sign in heaven taking place immediately after the great tribulation.

The 'locusts' of the 5th trumpet are the 'people of the prince to come' (Dan 9:26) who 'cut off the daily sacrifices' (Joel 1:4-9) starting the 1290 days of Dan 12:11.

The 6th Trumpet at Rev 9:13-21 is the 'winter, Sabbath, great tribulation' (starting 1290 days) which ends at the 7th Trumpet and will start the 7 bowls of wrath in a little bit. The sign of the son of man in heaven occurs at the end of this 1290 days (at the 7th Trumpet). (30 days after the 'winter, Sabbath great tribulation', comes the Dan 9:27 covenant that will supposedly end the great tribulation, but this person will break it at the 7th Trumpet).

The Rev 12 sign is referenced in Isaiah 7 & 8 'sign of Immanuel' ('God is with us')

10Again the LORD spoke to Ahaz, saying, 11“Ask for a sign from the LORD your God, whether from the depths of Sheol or the heights of heaven.”​

​

12But Ahaz replied, “I will not ask; I will not test the LORD.”​

​

13Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, O house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God as well? 14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel. 15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey. 16For before the boy knows enough to reject evil and choose good, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. ​

​

17The LORD will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since the day Ephraim separated from Judah—He will bring the king of Assyria.” ​

​

18On that day the LORD will whistle to the flies at the farthest streams of the Nile and to the bees in the land of Assyria.​

​

19And they will all come and settle in the steep ravines and clefts of the rocks, in all the thornbushes and watering holes.​

20 On that day the Lord will use a razor hired from beyond the Euphrates—the king of Assyria—to shave your head and the hair of your legs, and to remove your beard as well. 21 On that day a man will raise a young cow and two sheep, 22 and from the abundance of milk they give, he will eat curds; for all who remain in the land will eat curds and honey.​

and Isaiah 8

3And I had relations with the prophetess, and she conceived and gave birth to a son. The LORD said to me, “Name him Maher-shalal-hash-baz. 4For before the boy knows how to cry ‘Father’ or ‘Mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria will be carried off by the king of Assyria.” 5And the LORD spoke to me further: 6“Because this people has rejected the gently flowing waters of Shiloah and rejoiced in Rezin​

and the son of Remaliah, 7the Lord will surely bring against them the mighty floodwaters of the Euphratesc—e king of Assyria and all his pomp.​

It will overflow its channels and overrun its banks. 8It will pour into Judah, swirling and sweeping over it, reaching up to the neck; its spreading streams will cover your entire land, O Immanuel!​

Basically, at that point (at the end of the 1290 days, the 7th Trumpet) when the Rev 12 sign of the son of man in heaven occurs, the king of Damascus, Syria and the king of 'Israel' reject the 'waters of Shiloh' (peace) and conspire to take over Judah and Jerusalem so as to install their puppet king over Judah.

Within a few months (Maher shalal hash baz means 'quickly plunder'), the king of Assyria (the Assyrian) destroys (northern) Israel and Damascus, Syria. That is why the 'child' gets to eat 'curds and honey' - the land of its northern enemies has been turned into fields for grazing and bees to flourish.

That time frame of the 'quickly plunder' is the next 45 days (after 1290 days comes 45 more days to get us to the blessed 1335th day).

Hi Tranquil

Thank you very much for sharing your interpretation. So from Qubit who thinks it is the birth of Isaac all the way through to you linking it directly to the Return of Jesus Christ we really have the full range here! Your diagram is a bit confusing, you seem to place the events of Revelation 12 after Revelation 13, even though they appear to be one continuous vision with Revelation 13 happening directly after Revelation 12, is that right? It is almost like they happen backwards in your timeline.

I had always thought that the sign of the Son of Man in Matt 24:30 as Jesus Returns would be a cross (perhaps two comets crossing over, or even something more spectacular). You think the sign in heaven in Revelation 12:1 is a literal sign, that we (or whoever is still alive), will actually see a real woman give birth to a son in heaven? Or maybe some kind of holographic image? It seems a strange idea, but nothing is impossible for God.

How do you interpret the dragon's tail sweeping a third of the stars out of the sky in Revelation 12:3? Will that also be part of the sign in heaven? I am just trying to understand.

 

[BibleDaniel7]

I think your interpretation is perhaps not entirely accurate but interesting nonetheless. My own view is that we are given a timeless picture of the Church in heaven with Christ, after he, as a man-child, ascended into heaven. He appears to have been "snatched up," more like Christians are at the Rapture, than ascending, as Christ did.

Nevertheless, Christ is, I think, the man child who was caught up to God at the ascension. And this is used as the background for a future application of Satanic combat against the endtime Church.

So I don't think this is about Israel, but rather, about a Satanic attack that began with Israel, who had the 12 tribes. These were the 12 stars. But this is--I think you're correct, an endtimes development that may encompass the 20th century wars. Hitler, in particular, looked like a forerunner of Antichrist. The same may be said of Stalin, to some degree.

The deliverance of Israel in the present day is, however, significant in my estimation. So I do find your interpretation interesting. I do think the current attacks on Israel in the Middle East is leading towards Armageddon. But it will take some time for the Antichristian Empire to emerge. And then it will reign for 3.5 years before Christ returns to destroy it and save the Church, along with Israel.

Thanks for sharing. Interesting subject!

Hi Randy

Thanks for your reply, it sounds like we have at least some agreement.

I also think we are heading towards Armageddon, which is described in several places, with all nations gathered to attack Israel just prior to the return of Jesus Christ. Some of the passages referring to this time include:
Rev 16:12-16
Zec 12:1-14:5
Joe 3:1-16

 

[keras]

Hi Keras - Thank you for your reply. You agree that the 12 stars in the woman's crown represent the twelve tribes of Israel, but seem to identify the woman as the "Israel of God" who you identify as every faithful believer, is that right? Who is the Son born to the woman in Rev 12:5 in your interpretation?

The 'woman' in Rev 12:1-5 represents Mary, who did give birth to the man child;- Jesus.
But the 'woman' in Rev 12:6 represents the faithful Christian peoples, the offspring of the 'woman', as Rev 12:17 shows.

How do you interpret the dragon's tail sweeping a third of the stars out of the sky in Revelation 12:3?

I see them as all those angels who follow Satan and are now demonic spirits.

I also think we are heading towards Armageddon

As Armageddon will happen at the Sixth to the Seventh Bowl, Rev 16:12-21, much must take place before then.
The next Prophesied event has to be the Sixth Seal, the world changer which will commence all the prophesied end times things.

 

[Douggg]

tranquil, on the left side of your chart at the beginning, you have the "city and temple" destroyed. There is no temple presently in Jerusalem to be destroyed.

Daniel 9:26, the destruction of the temple and sanctuary is in the past, 70 AD.

Then you have Great Tribulation beginning in March of 2025. That's about 9 months away. So if that does not happen, you should start over.

 

[Douggg]

How do you interpret the dragon's tail sweeping a third of the stars out of the sky in Revelation 12:3, if you see that part of the passage as happening 2000 years ago? To me that seems a very clear reference to the Holocaust.

I see that particular verse as Satan mobilizing a third of the angels that rebelled with him, bringing them down to earth to assist in Satan's effort to destroy baby Jesus as soon as he was born.

You are getting a lot of opinions in response to your opening post, best wishes in your quest to putting everything together.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

There has been some interesting discussion on here about Revelation 12. I would like to present a different interpretation, with some Bible verses to support it. I welcome your thoughts and criticism! Bible verses in italics from NIV.

Firstly, most of the interpretations of Revelation 12 I have seen here relate to past events from the perspective of John. However the beginning of Revelation points to it being of future events:

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place...
Revelation 1:1a

How are you concluding that the book of Revelation only relates to distant future events from the time it was written based on what that verse says? That makes no sense. The book was addressed to seven first century churches with messages given specifically to and about them. That doesn't mean the book is all about them, but certainly means it's partly about them and that time period. The book was written long ago in the first century. How does 1,900+ years in the future equate to "must soon take place"?

But, there's another verse which tells us the book is about things that happened in the past before it was written, things that were happening at the time it was written, things that were happening and would continue to happen on an ongoing basis and things that would happen at an undetermined amount of time in the future.

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

I believe instead that Revelation 12 relates to the events of the 1940s: the Second World War, the Holocaust, the formation of Israel and the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. Here is why:

She gave birth to a son, a male child, who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."
Revelation 12:5

Here's the full verse:

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

This refers to Jesus's birth and His ascension. Which obviously happened long ago. Making Revelation 12 only about the future simply does not make any sense.

 

[tranquil]

Hi Tranquil

Thank you very much for sharing your interpretation. So from Qubit who thinks it is the birth of Isaac all the way through to you linking it directly to the Return of Jesus Christ we really have the full range here! Your diagram is a bit confusing, you seem to place the events of Revelation 12 after Revelation 13, even though they appear to be one continuous vision with Revelation 13 happening directly after Revelation 12, is that right? It is almost like they happen backwards in your timeline.

I had always thought that the sign of the Son of Man in Matt 24:30 as Jesus Returns would be a cross (perhaps two comets crossing over, or even something more spectacular). You think the sign in heaven in Revelation 12:1 is a literal sign, that we (or whoever is still alive), will actually see a real woman give birth to a son in heaven? Or maybe some kind of holographic image? It seems a strange idea, but nothing is impossible for God.

How do you interpret the dragon's tail sweeping a third of the stars out of the sky in Revelation 12:3? Will that also be part of the sign in heaven? I am just trying to understand.

Hi BibleDaniel,

Rev 12 happens, then Rev 13. I thought that was described in my chart, I will have to make that more clear. In general, the problem seems to be that people don't understand that the 'great tribulation' is not strictly the '2nd half of the 7 year covenant'. The great tribulation starts in Daniel 9:26 with the 'flood' (which is the 5 month period of the 5th Trumpet/ 1st woe - compare with the 150 days of the flood of Gen 7:24). The 'burning mountain' of the 2nd Trumpet is the destruction of the #6 king of Babylon, the current Babylon system - see the locusts and the burning mountain reference to Babylon in Jeremiah 49-51.

Rev 13's 42 months begin at the 7th Trumpet - this timeframe is cut short to literally the 70 weeks of Dan 9:24.

As to its exact manifestation, I am open to interpretations. I have seen it in predictive programming in various ways: a cross shaped satellite burning up in orbit or an astronaut giving birth in space, etc.

Regardless, 'Emmanuel' being born (the Isaiah 7 & 8 sign) is probably a literal event. 'Emmanuel' is the child in Micah 5. In Micah 5, Judah raises up 7 men to take over Assyria (who has just attacked and defeated Judah's enemy Israel, the beast from the sea). When the woman goes into the wilderness, the land has been cleared of enemies (or will soon be cleared of enemies) .

Again, the Assyrian of Isaiah 7 & 8 is the False Prophet of Rev 13 who defeats & takes over the evil breakaway Israel faction (in a civil war), but does not defeat Judah.

If you don't understand what Jesus is doing in the end times, you have to understand that Jesus is healing the civil war between 'Israel' & 'Judah'. The bad faction (new 10 horned Israel) will be led by the new 'Pekah son of Remaliah' (the beast from the sea). The Assyrian (the False Prophet) has to defeat the beast from the sea to imitate Jesus destroying the civil war faction Israel (see Hosea 1:4-11) so as to reunite the unfaithful Israel remnant to faithful Judah.

As to Rev 12:3, this relates to what is going on in Rev 12:7-11

7Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. 11And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.​

​

Some of the saints will die as in Rev 12:11 above. What is going on with Satan in heaven? Satan has lifted himself up, ascending into heaven (Isaiah 14:12-13) and calling himself God.

Satan will appear as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14), will confirm the covenant and break it at the 7th Trumpet by calling himself God.

Ezek 28:2“Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Because your heart is lifted up, And you say, ‘I am a god, I sit in the seat of gods, In the midst of the seas,’ Yet you are a man, and not a god, Though you set your heart as the heart of a god​

12“Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord God:​

“You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.​

13You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper,​

sapphire,b emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created​

they were prepared.​

​

14You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God;​

in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.​

​

Here again, we see this idea of the 'midst of stones of fire' which connects with Rev 12:3's Satan falling with 'stars' (Greek astare which relates to our word 'asteroid').

 

[tranquil]

tranquil, on the left side of your chart at the beginning, you have the "city and temple" destroyed. There is no temple presently in Jerusalem to be destroyed.

Daniel 9:26, the destruction of the temple and sanctuary is in the past, 70 AD.

Then you have Great Tribulation beginning in March of 2025. That's about 9 months away. So if that does not happen, you should start over.

Are you saying there is presently no temple?! What did Jesus do?

Jesus created the present temple!!! Please say that you think there is a temple, Doug. Jeez this is tedious.

Do you not know that you are God 's temple and that God 's Spirit dwells in you? (1 Cor 3:16)​

Dan 9:26 is not past. Sorry, Revelation is describing Dan 9:26 and 27.

As to March 2025, we will know if I have to 'start over' much sooner than that. By Oct 17, 2024, I will know as this will be the start of the fall of Babylon and will look like the end of the world (as described in the 6th Seal).

It will not be subtle.